Forum: End Of The Line BBS

[EchoIRLP] Thoughts on EchoIRLP's future.

From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to All on Wed Oct 12 09:42:00 2016

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This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF access to both networks. However, that limited what I could do outside of Echolink and IRLP. EchoIRLP was a solution to that problem. At the time, some other people, including Marcus WA2DCI had a similar vision, and we all joined forces to work on the project. Skip WB6YMH who developed tbd and tlb was of great assistance, adding features which were either specific to EchoIRLP (e.g. Speak Freely support), or had multiple uses including EchoIRLP, such as the scripting interfaces. Skip also fielded a heap of bug reports from people like myself, and promptly fixed the issues found. :-)

The first EchoIRLP node went live in early 2004 on IRLP node 6390, and the rest is history. :)

Now to the future. EchoIRLP has a major issue. It currently uses thebridge (tbd). The issue here is tbd is the same software that Echolink conferences use. around 2 years ago, Echolink started strictily enforcing their node ID policies, in preparation for charging for conference IDs. A key aspect of this enfoecement is that conferences with -R or -L IDs were removed from their system. Because EchoIRLP uses the same software as a "real" conference, any node configured for more than one connection at a time (i.e. MaxConferenceClients > 2) was seen by the servers as a "conference", and removed by the admins for having a -L or -R callsign. Why single access conferences still work is one of the many EchoIRLP specific features of tbd which had this beneficial side effect.

There is a fix for this problem, but to make it easily used, it requires a few changes to the EchoIRLP scripts. Skip produced a second package called thelinkbox (tlb). This is effectively tbd with an integrated repeater controller added. In theory, tlb is a drop in replacement for tbd. It uses exactly the same configuration file (unless you eant to add RF functionality directly to tlb), and the same scripting interface. However, some parts of the EchoIRLP scripts assume "tbd" is running, not "tlb", and will fail, so these need to be rewritten to be more generic. The issue is finding the time to make the changes. I also no longer have access to a "stock" EchoIRLP node. My node is a highly experimental system running a non standard configuration, one which is not appropriate to let out in the wild.

Another feature that I have integrated into my own EchoIRLP node is the "Rebel Base" remote base controller. This is an additional set of scripts, which uses tlb, along with Hamlib and some GNU utilities to turn an attached radio into a remote base. This could be a secondary radio (especially if you're running EchoIRLP on a repeater), or the main node radio (frequency agile simplex node anyone? :) ). Rebel Base is fairly self contained, and can be added to any node running tlb (audio routing is simpler with tlb).

And the use of tlb also makes it simpler to integrate streaming audio for listeners.

Thoughts anyone?

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<p>This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on<br>
EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a<br>
project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna<br>
and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF<br>

From dcameron@irlp.net [EchoIRLP]@432:1/101 to EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com on Thu Oct 13 13:29:00 2016

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<p>If scripts were made to update the EchoIRLP scripts to use TLB instead
of TBD, then I could distribute it via the IRLP scripts, and people could simply run the update from their node.<div><br></div><div>It would have to be pretty fool proof though, or at least have a backup strategy.</div><div><br></div><div>The EchoIRLP install script would have to be
updated as well. It will have to be tested on all the flavours of IRLP that are currently in the wild, including IRLP Embedded machines.</div><div><br></div><div>Dave Cameron</div></p>

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From David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail@432:1/101 to EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com on Fri Oct 14 14:24:00 2016

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=E2=80=8BI have one or more idle IRLP nodes we should be able to use to dev= elop and
test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working install script
for the TLB version going, then look at doing a migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably need to run it on a VPN.

Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files and do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files.

Tony, I have a need for remote base capabilities from time to time. I'll
be interested in your Rebel Base setup on a node computer.

David M.
WD5M

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<p><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:small;" class=3D"gmail_de= fault">=E2=80=8BI have one or more idle IRLP nodes we should be able to use=
to develop and test TLB on EchoIRLP.=C2=A0 I'll grab a spare computer = and IRLP card, and fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github.=C2=A0 Perhaps we can = get a working install script for the TLB version going, then look at doing =
a migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably = need to run it on a VPN.<br><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:small;" class= =3D"gmail_default">Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files an=
d do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files. <br><br= ></div><div style=3D"font-size:small;" class=3D"gmail_default">Tony, I have=
a need for remote base capabilities from time to time.=C2=A0 I'll be i= nterested in your=C2=A0 Rebel Base setup on a node computer.<br></div><div = style=3D"font-size:small;" class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div style=3D"= font-size:small;" class=3D"gmail_default">David M.<br></div><div style=3D"f= ont-size:small;" class=3D"gmail_default">WD5M<br></div><br></div>

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From Tony Langdon@432:1/101 to David McAnally David.McAn on Sat Oct 15 08:58:00 2016

David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to

EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-

test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and
fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working
install script for the TLB version going, then look at doing a
migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably
need to run it on a VPN.

I suggest we work together on this. I was going to look at making the parts that rely on tbd more generic, using variables, so it's easy to switch binaries. We may need to also look at changing how tbd/tlb sre started, starting them as "repeater" in a script called from rc.irlp, rather than started by the system as is currently done. Make EchoIRLP work a bit more like how the new reflector code works.

Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files and do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files.

Agree. And streamline things a bit too.

Tony, I have a need for remote base capabilities from time to time.
I'll be interested in your Rebel Base setup on a node computer.

Sure, I'm happy to send you a copy. It's not 100% complete. The DTMF command set is only barely started, and not all functions have been implemented (a lot of the more advanced functions like split operation are not yet implemented). But it's basically functional. To get it working on your node, you need to write a simple script that calls Hamlib with the communication parameters for your radio.

... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (432:1/101)

From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to David McAnally David.McAn on Sat Oct 15 08:58:00 2016

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David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to

EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-

test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and
fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working
install script for the TLB version going, then look at doing a
migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably
need to run it on a VPN.

I suggest we work together on this. I was going to look at making the parts that rely on tbd more generic, using variables, so it's easy to switch binaries. We may need to also look at changing how tbd/tlb sre started, starting them as "repeater" in a script called from rc.irlp, rather than started by the system as is currently done. Make EchoIRLP work a bit more like how the new reflector code works.

Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files and do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files.

Agree. And streamline things a bit too.

Tony, I have a need for remote base capabilities from time to time.
I'll be interested in your Rebel Base setup on a node computer.

Sure, I'm happy to send you a copy. It's not 100% complete. The DTMF command set is only barely started, and not all functions have been implemented (a lot of the more advanced functions like split operation are not yet implemented). But it's basically functional. To get it working on your node, you need to write a simple script that calls Hamlib with the communication parameters for your radio.

.... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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<p>-=> David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to<br> EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-<br>

DM[> test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and<br>
DM[> fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working<br>
DM[> install script for the TLB version

From Tony Langdon vk3jed@vkradio.com [Ec@432:1/101 to EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com on Sat Oct 15 10:51:00 2016

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On 14/10/2016 7:29 AM, dcameron@irlp.net [EchoIRLP] wrote:

If scripts were made to update the EchoIRLP scripts to use TLB instead
of TBD, then I could distribute it via the IRLP scripts, and people
could simply run the update from their node.

That would be a good idea. Looks like David M's keen to work on this,
which is good. I'm happy to work with David. I've had some ideas but
don't have either the time or the stock EchoIRLP node to develop them on.

It would have to be pretty fool proof though, or at least have a backup strategy.

We can look into that as part of the new system - make it more
"modular", so it's easier to remove

The EchoIRLP install script would have to be updated as well. It will
have to be tested on all the flavours of IRLP that are currently in the
wild, including IRLP Embedded machines.

Yep, again I agree. :) Probably need some VMs for that aspect.

--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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<p>On 14/10/2016 7:29 AM, dcameron@irlp.net [EchoIRLP] wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> If scripts were made to update the EchoIRLP scripts to use TLB instead<br> > of TBD, then I could distribute it via the IRLP scripts, and people<br> > could simply run the update from their node.<br>

That would be a good idea. Looks like David M's keen to work on this,<br> which is good. I'm happy to work with David. I've had some ideas but<br>
don't have either the time or the stock EchoIRLP node to develop them on.<br>
> <br>
> It would have to be pretty fool proof though, or at least have a backup<br>
> strategy.<br>

We can look into that as part of the new system - make it more<br> "modular", so it's easier to remove<br>
> <br>
> The EchoIRLP install script would have to be updated as well. It will<br> > have to be tested on all the flavours of IRLP that are currently in the<br>
> wild, including IRLP Embedded machines.<br>

Yep, again I agree. :) Probably need some VMs for that aspect.<br>

-- <br>
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL<br>
http://vkradio.com<br>

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From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to All on Wed Oct 12 09:42:00 2016

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This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF access to both networks. However, that limited what I could do outside of Echolink and IRLP. EchoIRLP was a solution to that problem. At the time, some other people, including Marcus WA2DCI had a similar vision, and we all joined forces to work on the project. Skip WB6YMH who developed tbd and tlb was of great assistance, adding features which were either specific to EchoIRLP (e.g. Speak Freely support), or had multiple uses including EchoIRLP, such as the scripting interfaces. Skip also fielded a heap of bug reports from people like myself, and promptly fixed the issues found. :-)

The first EchoIRLP node went live in early 2004 on IRLP node 6390, and the rest is history. :)

Now to the future. EchoIRLP has a major issue. It currently uses thebridge (tbd). The issue here is tbd is the same software that Echolink conferences use. around 2 years ago, Echolink started strictily enforcing their node ID policies, in preparation for charging for conference IDs. A key aspect of this enfoecement is that conferences with -R or -L IDs were removed from their system. Because EchoIRLP uses the same software as a "real" conference, any node configured for more than one connection at a time (i.e. MaxConferenceClients > 2) was seen by the servers as a "conference", and removed by the admins for having a -L or -R callsign. Why single access conferences still work is one of the many EchoIRLP specific features of tbd which had this beneficial side effect.

There is a fix for this problem, but to make it easily used, it requires a few changes to the EchoIRLP scripts. Skip produced a second package called thelinkbox (tlb). This is effectively tbd with an integrated repeater controller added. In theory, tlb is a drop in replacement for tbd. It uses exactly the same configuration file (unless you eant to add RF functionality directly to tlb), and the same scripting interface. However, some parts of the EchoIRLP scripts assume "tbd" is running, not "tlb", and will fail, so these need to be rewritten to be more generic. The issue is finding the time to make the changes. I also no longer have access to a "stock" EchoIRLP node. My node is a highly experimental system running a non standard configuration, one which is not appropriate to let out in the wild.

Another feature that I have integrated into my own EchoIRLP node is the "Rebel Base" remote base controller. This is an additional set of scripts, which uses tlb, along with Hamlib and some GNU utilities to turn an attached radio into a remote base. This could be a secondary radio (especially if you're running EchoIRLP on a repeater), or the main node radio (frequency agile simplex node anyone? :) ). Rebel Base is fairly self contained, and can be added to any node running tlb (audio routing is simpler with tlb).

And the use of tlb also makes it simpler to integrate streaming audio for listeners.

Thoughts anyone?

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<p>This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on<br>
EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a<br>
project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna<br>
and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF<br>

From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to David McAnally David.McAn on Sat Oct 15 08:58:00 2016

--diP3WmQEelwWPKrhg2dJ5x48humbcBAEuaIOMkd
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David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to

EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-

test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and
fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working
install script for the TLB version going, then look at doing a
migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably
need to run it on a VPN.

I suggest we work together on this. I was going to look at making the parts that rely on tbd more generic, using variables, so it's easy to switch binaries. We may need to also look at changing how tbd/tlb sre started, starting them as "repeater" in a script called from rc.irlp, rather than started by the system as is currently done. Make EchoIRLP work a bit more like how the new reflector code works.

Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files and do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files.

Agree. And streamline things a bit too.

Tony, I have a need for remote base capabilities from time to time.
I'll be interested in your Rebel Base setup on a node computer.

Sure, I'm happy to send you a copy. It's not 100% complete. The DTMF command set is only barely started, and not all functions have been implemented (a lot of the more advanced functions like split operation are not yet implemented). But it's basically functional. To get it working on your node, you need to write a simple script that calls Hamlib with the communication parameters for your radio.

.... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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--- Synchronet 3.16c-Linux ListGate 1.3
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<div id="ygrp-text" >

<p>-=> David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to<br> EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-<br>

DM[> test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and<br>
DM[> fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working<br>
DM[> install script for the TLB version

From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to All on Wed Oct 12 09:42:00 2016

--k-lvavGfVA5W9wJIK0YqBu8XlafQLmf3mPzKIE-
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF access to both networks. However, that limited what I could do outside of Echolink and IRLP. EchoIRLP was a solution to that problem. At the time, some other people, including Marcus WA2DCI had a similar vision, and we all joined forces to work on the project. Skip WB6YMH who developed tbd and tlb was of great assistance, adding features which were either specific to EchoIRLP (e.g. Speak Freely support), or had multiple uses including EchoIRLP, such as the scripting interfaces. Skip also fielded a heap of bug reports from people like myself, and promptly fixed the issues found. :-)

The first EchoIRLP node went live in early 2004 on IRLP node 6390, and the rest is history. :)

Now to the future. EchoIRLP has a major issue. It currently uses thebridge (tbd). The issue here is tbd is the same software that Echolink conferences use. around 2 years ago, Echolink started strictily enforcing their node ID policies, in preparation for charging for conference IDs. A key aspect of this enfoecement is that conferences with -R or -L IDs were removed from their system. Because EchoIRLP uses the same software as a "real" conference, any node configured for more than one connection at a time (i.e. MaxConferenceClients > 2) was seen by the servers as a "conference", and removed by the admins for having a -L or -R callsign. Why single access conferences still work is one of the many EchoIRLP specific features of tbd which had this beneficial side effect.

There is a fix for this problem, but to make it easily used, it requires a few changes to the EchoIRLP scripts. Skip produced a second package called thelinkbox (tlb). This is effectively tbd with an integrated repeater controller added. In theory, tlb is a drop in replacement for tbd. It uses exactly the same configuration file (unless you eant to add RF functionality directly to tlb), and the same scripting interface. However, some parts of the EchoIRLP scripts assume "tbd" is running, not "tlb", and will fail, so these need to be rewritten to be more generic. The issue is finding the time to make the changes. I also no longer have access to a "stock" EchoIRLP node. My node is a highly experimental system running a non standard configuration, one which is not appropriate to let out in the wild.

Another feature that I have integrated into my own EchoIRLP node is the "Rebel Base" remote base controller. This is an additional set of scripts, which uses tlb, along with Hamlib and some GNU utilities to turn an attached radio into a remote base. This could be a secondary radio (especially if you're running EchoIRLP on a repeater), or the main node radio (frequency agile simplex node anyone? :) ). Rebel Base is fairly self contained, and can be added to any node running tlb (audio routing is simpler with tlb).

And the use of tlb also makes it simpler to integrate streaming audio for listeners.

Thoughts anyone?

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<p>This is long overdue, but I think it is worth opening a discussion on<br>
EchoIRLP's future. EchoIRLP has been a huge success. It started out as a<br>
project to solve a need that some of us had. At that time, I had one antenna<br>
and was tying up 2 radio ports with IRLP and Echolink, because I wanted RF<br>

From 'Tony Langdon' echoirlp@freeway.apa@432:1/101 to David McAnally David.McAn on Sat Oct 15 08:58:00 2016

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David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to

EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-

test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and
fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working
install script for the TLB version going, then look at doing a
migration script. Give me a week or two to get set up. I'll probably
need to run it on a VPN.

I suggest we work together on this. I was going to look at making the parts that rely on tbd more generic, using variables, so it's easy to switch binaries. We may need to also look at changing how tbd/tlb sre started, starting them as "repeater" in a script called from rc.irlp, rather than started by the system as is currently done. Make EchoIRLP work a bit more like how the new reflector code works.

Might be a good time to go through the EchoIRLP files and do a clean-up on scripts, code and duplicate configuration files.

Agree. And streamline things a bit too.

Tony, I have a need for remote base capabilities from time to time.
I'll be interested in your Rebel Base setup on a node computer.

Sure, I'm happy to send you a copy. It's not 100% complete. The DTMF command set is only barely started, and not all functions have been implemented (a lot of the more advanced functions like split operation are not yet implemented). But it's basically functional. To get it working on your node, you need to write a simple script that calls Hamlib with the communication parameters for your radio.

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<p>-=> David McAnally David.McAnally@gmail.com [EchoIRLP] wrote to<br> EchoIRLP@yahoogroups.com <=-<br>

DM[> test TLB on EchoIRLP. I'll grab a spare computer and IRLP card, and<br>
DM[> fork a copy of EchoIRLP on github. Perhaps we can get a working<br>
DM[> install script for the TLB version

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[EchoIRLP] Thoughts on EchoIRLP's future.

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