• America's Freedoms

    From Skuz@9:91/1 to All on Tue Jan 10 19:15:39 2017
    Can an understanding of math and statistics save America's freedoms?

    The other day John Silveira and I were walking by a gas
    station in Gold Beach, Oregon, where this magazine is
    located, when I remarked, "The price of gas went up again;
    that must be killing the motel business in this town."

    Silveira replied, "They raised it a nickel. That's a dollar a
    tank. Most people reach their destination on a tank of gas,
    which means they need two tanks to get there and go back
    home. It's hard to believe people will change their vacation
    plans over an extra two dollars, yet they barely put up a fuss
    when the federal government takes a third of their paycheck in taxes."

    "That's because people don't think like you," I said. "You
    consider the actual statistics involved, but ordinary people
    hear on TV that gas prices are high so they change their
    plans. The media never mentions how high taxes are."

    As soon as I said it I realized I had just discovered the
    Holy Grail of how to save America's freedoms from being
    further eroded by big government-just get them to think
    the way Silveira thinks, namely, with the actual numbers,
    the math and statistics, that apply to the decisions they must make.

    Math and statistics, after all, underly science. If a scientific
    theory is statistically more accurate than other theories, it
    is considered true enough by scientists, and they use it to
    advance mankind's knowledge of the world. A knowledge
    of statistics should work as well with social and political
    problems as it does with scientific problems. If all of us
    understood statistics, and were as honest with ourselves as
    scientists seem to be when they seek answers to scientific
    problems, I believe liberals and conservatives would see things differently.

    For example, if liberals understood what the gun statistics
    say, namely that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens
    are used two million times a year to prevent crimes, including several thousand murders and many thousands of rapes, liberals would no longer favor gun control. They would tell government at all levels to repeal the 20,000 gun laws now on the books.

    Conversely, if conservatives understood what the War on
    Drugs statistics say, namely that the drug war has made
    minimal impact on drug use but has spawned numerous
    laws that violate our Constitutional freedoms, conservatives
    would no longer favor the War on Drugs. They would tell
    the government to free our prisons' drug offenders, who
    comprise 66% of our nation's prison population, giving
    America the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world.

    An understanding of math and statistics would also change the
    views of other groups in society. For example, if senior citizens
    understood that the statistics on the social security trust fund
    show the fund will run out of money by the year 2012 unless federal
    taxes are raised on their grandchildren to about 40%, they would
    vote for a presidential candidate who promises to fix social security
    properly rather than one who promises to give them more benefits that
    must be extorted from their grandkids.

    And environmentalists would look at endangered species
    differently if they understood that statistics show that 99.9%
    of all species that ever existed are now extinct, that it is
    nature's way of evolving. And they would act differently
    towards trees if they understood that statistics show that
    there are more trees now in America than at the turn of the
    century. They would tell the government to stop confiscating
    people's lands for national preserves that save bugs and trees.

    If people understood the statistics on education, namely
    that the public education system is turning out high school
    graduates who can't read, whereas private schools turn out
    graduates who can, they would vote to allow school voucher
    programs and other types of private school funding.
    In all of these areas-guns, drugs, social security, the
    environment, and education-it has been the lack of an
    understanding of the actual statistical evidence that has led
    people to make the foolish decisions they have. Doesn't that
    make sense?

    Sure, there are other factors in there too.
    Some people, like politicians, are familiar with the statistical
    evidence but they choose to ignore them for selfish gain.
    Politicians want to get elected so they play to people's fears
    with anecdotal evidence about children being shot, drugs
    wrecking families, old people starving, old growth forests
    disappearing, and religious nuts educating our children. But
    an understanding of the actual statistics would allow people
    to see these anecdotal tidbits for the lies they actually are.
    Wouldn't it?

    Am I missing something? If scientists use statistics to come up with the correct solution to problems, why don't we. Are we just stupid, or what?

    -- Dave Duffy Backwoods Home Magazine BWHM

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  • From Bbsing.Bbs@9:91/14 to Skuz on Fri Jan 13 11:45:00 2017
    Skuz wrote to All <=-

    Can an understanding of math and statistics save America's freedoms?

    The other day John Silveira and I were walking by a gas
    station in Gold Beach, Oregon, where this magazine is
    located, when I remarked, "The price of gas went up again;
    that must be killing the motel business in this town."

    Silveira replied, "They raised it a nickel. That's a dollar a
    tank. Most people reach their destination on a tank of gas,
    which means they need two tanks to get there and go back
    home. It's hard to believe people will change their vacation
    plans over an extra two dollars, yet they barely put up a fuss
    when the federal government takes a third of their paycheck in taxes."

    "That's because people don't think like you," I said. "You
    consider the actual statistics involved, but ordinary people
    hear on TV that gas prices are high so they change their
    plans. The media never mentions how high taxes are."

    As soon as I said it I realized I had just discovered the
    Holy Grail of how to save America's freedoms from being
    further eroded by big government-just get them to think
    the way Silveira thinks, namely, with the actual numbers,
    the math and statistics, that apply to the decisions they must make.

    Math and statistics, after all, underly science. If a scientific
    theory is statistically more accurate than other theories, it
    is considered true enough by scientists, and they use it to
    advance mankind's knowledge of the world. A knowledge
    of statistics should work as well with social and political
    problems as it does with scientific problems. If all of us
    understood statistics, and were as honest with ourselves as
    scientists seem to be when they seek answers to scientific
    problems, I believe liberals and conservatives would see things differently.

    For example, if liberals understood what the gun statistics
    say, namely that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens
    are used two million times a year to prevent crimes, including several thousand murders and many thousands of rapes, liberals would no longer favor gun control. They would tell government at all levels to repeal
    the 20,000 gun laws now on the books.

    Conversely, if conservatives understood what the War on
    Drugs statistics say, namely that the drug war has made
    minimal impact on drug use but has spawned numerous
    laws that violate our Constitutional freedoms, conservatives
    would no longer favor the War on Drugs. They would tell
    the government to free our prisons' drug offenders, who
    comprise 66% of our nation's prison population, giving
    America the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world.

    An understanding of math and statistics would also change the
    views of other groups in society. For example, if senior citizens understood that the statistics on the social security trust fund
    show the fund will run out of money by the year 2012 unless federal
    taxes are raised on their grandchildren to about 40%, they would
    vote for a presidential candidate who promises to fix social security properly rather than one who promises to give them more benefits that
    must be extorted from their grandkids.

    And environmentalists would look at endangered species
    differently if they understood that statistics show that 99.9%
    of all species that ever existed are now extinct, that it is
    nature's way of evolving. And they would act differently
    towards trees if they understood that statistics show that
    there are more trees now in America than at the turn of the
    century. They would tell the government to stop confiscating
    people's lands for national preserves that save bugs and trees.

    If people understood the statistics on education, namely
    that the public education system is turning out high school
    graduates who can't read, whereas private schools turn out
    graduates who can, they would vote to allow school voucher
    programs and other types of private school funding.
    In all of these areas-guns, drugs, social security, the
    environment, and education-it has been the lack of an
    understanding of the actual statistical evidence that has led
    people to make the foolish decisions they have. Doesn't that
    make sense?

    Sure, there are other factors in there too.
    Some people, like politicians, are familiar with the statistical
    evidence but they choose to ignore them for selfish gain.
    Politicians want to get elected so they play to people's fears
    with anecdotal evidence about children being shot, drugs
    wrecking families, old people starving, old growth forests
    disappearing, and religious nuts educating our children. But
    an understanding of the actual statistics would allow people
    to see these anecdotal tidbits for the lies they actually are.
    Wouldn't it?

    Am I missing something? If scientists use statistics to come up with
    the correct solution to problems, why don't we. Are we just stupid, or what?
    I think its a few things. Forgetfullness, .. the past isn't known to most people and newer generations.
    Emotionally charged, .. info delivery is polerized via emotional hooks.
    Mass division .. the wrong problem is being discussed, like race, instead of culture. Race can't change but culture can, but all we see is about racial polerization.
    Masive mind control via advertisments and consumerism.

    They want mindless labor and wage slaves, not healthy americans.
    -- Dave Duffy Backwoods Home Magazine BWHM

    __&%~[_] [__ _&[&__ _] :_ ] ! b7 member board
    [&___ [& _[&] [&][][&]:__&] __ dA flupHly squirrel ate my nuts!
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  • From karl@9:91/23 to Bbsing.Bbs on Fri Jan 13 09:02:00 2017
    instead of culture. Race can't change but culture can, but all we see is about racial polerization.
    Masive mind control via advertisments and consumerism.

    They want mindless labor and wage slaves, not healthy americans.

    Very true... So what can we do about it? It can only change 1 person at a time. I believe the only way to avoid falling victim to this is to cut off
    the propaganda sources in our lives.

    Just my 2 cents.

    --
    Karl
    The Search BBS

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  • From Skuz@9:91/1 to Bbsing.Bbs on Fri Jan 13 11:23:16 2017
    On 01/13/17, Bbsing.Bbs said the following...

    I think its a few things. Forgetfullness, .. the past isn't known to most people and newer generations.
    Emotionally charged, .. info delivery is polerized via emotional hooks. Mass division .. the wrong problem is being discussed, like race,
    instead of culture. Race can't change but culture can, but all we see is about racial polerization.
    Masive mind control via advertisments and consumerism.
    They want mindless labor and wage slaves, not healthy americans.

    All good points, other problems .. are values, morals and ethics. After all
    who the hell shapes this culture? A culture that has pretty much lost it's way.. over the years. I heard "this is not the same world that I grow up in" from so many people. It kinda makes me sad to be honest.. I know that raising
    a family in a society that is fast-paced and ever changing can make it confusing.

    Anyway .. It's sad to say, but someone has dropped the ball here in the USA.

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    ޲ ޲ ޲ ޲޲ݰܲ dA flupHly squirrel ate my nuts!
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  • From Bbsing.Bbs@9:91/14 to Skuz on Fri Jan 13 11:45:00 2017
    Skuz wrote to All <=-

    Can an understanding of math and statistics save America's freedoms?

    The other day John Silveira and I were walking by a gas
    station in Gold Beach, Oregon, where this magazine is
    located, when I remarked, "The price of gas went up again;
    that must be killing the motel business in this town."

    Silveira replied, "They raised it a nickel. That's a dollar a
    tank. Most people reach their destination on a tank of gas,
    which means they need two tanks to get there and go back
    home. It's hard to believe people will change their vacation
    plans over an extra two dollars, yet they barely put up a fuss
    when the federal government takes a third of their paycheck in taxes."

    "That's because people don't think like you," I said. "You
    consider the actual statistics involved, but ordinary people
    hear on TV that gas prices are high so they change their
    plans. The media never mentions how high taxes are."

    As soon as I said it I realized I had just discovered the
    Holy Grail of how to save America's freedoms from being
    further eroded by big government-just get them to think
    the way Silveira thinks, namely, with the actual numbers,
    the math and statistics, that apply to the decisions they must make.

    Math and statistics, after all, underly science. If a scientific
    theory is statistically more accurate than other theories, it
    is considered true enough by scientists, and they use it to
    advance mankind's knowledge of the world. A knowledge
    of statistics should work as well with social and political
    problems as it does with scientific problems. If all of us
    understood statistics, and were as honest with ourselves as
    scientists seem to be when they seek answers to scientific
    problems, I believe liberals and conservatives would see things differently.

    For example, if liberals understood what the gun statistics
    say, namely that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens
    are used two million times a year to prevent crimes, including several thousand murders and many thousands of rapes, liberals would no longer favor gun control. They would tell government at all levels to repeal
    the 20,000 gun laws now on the books.

    Conversely, if conservatives understood what the War on
    Drugs statistics say, namely that the drug war has made
    minimal impact on drug use but has spawned numerous
    laws that violate our Constitutional freedoms, conservatives
    would no longer favor the War on Drugs. They would tell
    the government to free our prisons' drug offenders, who
    comprise 66% of our nation's prison population, giving
    America the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world.

    An understanding of math and statistics would also change the
    views of other groups in society. For example, if senior citizens understood that the statistics on the social security trust fund
    show the fund will run out of money by the year 2012 unless federal
    taxes are raised on their grandchildren to about 40%, they would
    vote for a presidential candidate who promises to fix social security properly rather than one who promises to give them more benefits that
    must be extorted from their grandkids.

    And environmentalists would look at endangered species
    differently if they understood that statistics show that 99.9%
    of all species that ever existed are now extinct, that it is
    nature's way of evolving. And they would act differently
    towards trees if they understood that statistics show that
    there are more trees now in America than at the turn of the
    century. They would tell the government to stop confiscating
    people's lands for national preserves that save bugs and trees.

    If people understood the statistics on education, namely
    that the public education system is turning out high school
    graduates who can't read, whereas private schools turn out
    graduates who can, they would vote to allow school voucher
    programs and other types of private school funding.
    In all of these areas-guns, drugs, social security, the
    environment, and education-it has been the lack of an
    understanding of the actual statistical evidence that has led
    people to make the foolish decisions they have. Doesn't that
    make sense?

    Sure, there are other factors in there too.
    Some people, like politicians, are familiar with the statistical
    evidence but they choose to ignore them for selfish gain.
    Politicians want to get elected so they play to people's fears
    with anecdotal evidence about children being shot, drugs
    wrecking families, old people starving, old growth forests
    disappearing, and religious nuts educating our children. But
    an understanding of the actual statistics would allow people
    to see these anecdotal tidbits for the lies they actually are.
    Wouldn't it?

    Am I missing something? If scientists use statistics to come up with
    the correct solution to problems, why don't we. Are we just stupid, or what?
    I think its a few things. Forgetfullness, .. the past isn't known to most people and newer generations.
    Emotionally charged, .. info delivery is polerized via emotional hooks.
    Mass division .. the wrong problem is being discussed, like race, instead of culture. Race can't change but culture can, but all we see is about racial polerization.
    Masive mind control via advertisments and consumerism.

    They want mindless labor and wage slaves, not healthy americans.
    -- Dave Duffy Backwoods Home Magazine BWHM

    __&%~[_] [__ _&[&__ _] :_ ] ! b7 member board
    [&___ [& _[&] [&][][&]:__&] __ dA flupHly squirrel ate my nuts!
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  • From Bbsing.Bbs@9:91/14 to Skuz on Sun Jan 22 04:09:00 2017
    Re: Re: America's Freedoms
    By: Skuz to Bbsing.Bbs on Fri Jan 13 2017 11:23 am


    All good points, other problems .. are values, morals and ethics. After all who the hell shapes this culture? A culture that has pretty much lost it's way.. over the years. I heard "this is not the same world that I grow up in" from so many people. It kinda makes me sad to be honest.. I know that raisin a family in a society that is fast-paced and ever changing can make it confusing.

    Anyway .. It's sad to say, but someone has dropped the ball here in the USA.

    Yeah it is a bit sad, and it makes me a bit scared at times. I worry about the future and how seems people a lot of people just are doing things without thinking about why they are doing them. They see others doing it and if they don't do the same they are bullyed or made to feel like a bad person. So most people just go along with stuff, and I wonder who is leading it all.

    I think about what changes are coming and if I want to be involved withthe result of the changes. Often we don't get a choice except for hiding inside and keep quite.

    One of my friends made a comment about the women's march today. Not against the march but about all the trash left in the city, and people just hammered him. Nobody could even acknowledge the fact that the march left behind trash from the people participating. .. when I was growing up my mom taught me to put my trash in a trash can and if it was full or there wasn't one, I had to put it in my pocket until I found the trash's proper home. People just don't give a care about their public space or respect it for others. This is a sign of a culture in decline. :)

    We will get through this though.
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  • From oog@9:91/23 to Bbsing.Bbs on Wed Jan 25 01:54:00 2017
    On 01/22/17, Bbsing.Bbs said the following...
    Yeah it is a bit sad, and it makes me a bit scared at times.
    I'm (cautiously) optimistic about the future, now that we have a POTUS who seems to want to right the sinking ship. Hopefully he can -- though in many ways it's likely too late (socially, for example..)

    One of my friends made a comment about the women's march today. Not against the march but about all the trash left in the city, and people just hammered him.
    Aside from the literal trash they left all over the city, most of them are trash, figuratively..

    This entire 3rd wave feminist movement are nothing but a bunch of bitter
    whiney assholes. And the whole SJW thing needs to be expunged asap too. All products of helicopter parenting, participation awards, and a distinct lack
    of discipline during the formative years of much of the current 20-something crowd.

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  • From Bbsing.Bbs@9:91/14 to oog on Mon Jan 30 00:34:00 2017
    Re: Re: America's Freedoms
    By: oog to Bbsing.Bbs on Wed Jan 25 2017 01:54 am

    This entire 3rd wave feminist movement are nothing but a bunch of bitter whiney assholes. And the whole SJW thing needs to be expunged asap too. All products of helicopter parenting, participation awards, and a distinct lack of discipline during the formative years of much of the current 20-something crowd.
    Its their world now. ... I'm on the decline unless I can double my natural expiration. We are gonig to have to learn to understand insantiy.
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