In the past several years various different groups have noticed a need to archive their media in case of some sort of disaster. Home servers have been moved to network servers. MAME ROM archives (ROM game file images) have been easier to acquire. Furthermore, with war and financial hardship we want to keep our media and not have it break or deteriorate. The original purposes for starting PHATstar was to archive media that might otherwise be lost to time, along with the idea for a Bible study using those materials just mentioned. Archiving is permitted legally if it is for a historical backup, so archiving tones of stuff and using them for fun and good times may not be quite proper, you see if its just an archive then no company is loosing out on profits, but if a person uses, lets say MAME ROMs, and there is a fancy new 30-in-1 game cartridge that has just come out, then those games that you play from the ROM archive would have to not include those games that have been made available for sale again.

This is something to think about anyways, if you think the stuff is really going to hit the fan and you value culture and society then it might be prudent to make an archive of your own, hide it very very well and someone might find it in decades or centuries to come. Preserving the historical record is a noble task. Good luck!

Cheers!
-wf

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On 03 Sep 2022, warmfuzzy said the following...

and someone might find it in decades or centuries to come. Preserving
the historical record is a noble task. Good luck!

I've had this discussion with folks before. I agree with your premise, which is why I've started collecting analog media as well as maintaining a DRM-free digital library. If we have a major disaster that takes electronics out of the mix (whether through entropy or something like CME), vinyl will be the first media from the "before times" that can be accessed in an austere manner (a spinning platform, a needle, and something to make a cone and you're in business. I did it as a science fair thing in elementary school). Paper books will outlast your kindle as long as they don't catch fire or get too damp.

On the other hand, that legacy needs to continue from generation to generation. If I collect a pile of records and books, but my kids have been forced into one-bedroom apartments because of the economy, or some kind of planned cities nonsense, or if they just don't see the point, that effort is wasted.

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Will a digital ark be enough?

Taking lessons from the Movie "Book of Eli" and the Books "A Canticle for Leibowitz" and "Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman" people have conceived of periods where accessing the digital will be limited or simply wont be possible.

The "Emberverse" series among others, discusses this as well.

Digital Arks for light crumbles, and hard copy archives for the deep crash?

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

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A physical copy would be a fair bit more difficult to alter en-masse than what a digital copy would. Yeah you can compare hashes to find out if something has been tampered with, but most people don't know what a hash is, how to get the computer to calculate the hash, and would loose interest when having to compare a hash.

But, if you own a physical media, it won't be as easy for an outside force to go door to door to edit everyones copy. Your copy is less likely to be changed by an external force once the copy is in your hands.

If you are going to keep a digital copy (it certainly does have its benefits), it must be DRM free and you must have multiple copies that do not require the device to "dial home".

I think having both a good idea. The important documents must be on paper or book form, and have a digital copy as well. Lesser important things can be kept on a digital device. I am going to leave the classification of what is important to the reader. As for me, for example, all of my tube datasheets and schematics are on paper as well as digital. I have a paper copy of the farmers almanac and a paper copy of the Beartaria Times, both have very valuable information regarding homesteading and growing food. I keep a morse code reference card while I am learning morse code.

73, de KG7UJH
Debian

How ya gonna do it? PS/2 it!

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On 22 Sep 2022, debian said the following...

But, if you own a physical media, it won't be as easy for an outside
force to go door to door to edit everyones copy. Your copy is less
likely to be changed by an external force once the copy is in your
hands.

If you are going to keep a digital copy (it certainly does have its benefits), it must be DRM free and you must have multiple copies that do not require the device to "dial home".

Exactly right on both counts. Good luck altering my vinyl collection or taking the crows out of my Little Golden Book of "Dumbo" (the new printings don't include how Dumbo got his feather because crows are racist).

It's like the end of Fahrenheit 451, except we can preserve the books now.

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On 22 Sep 2022, debian said the following...

A physical copy would be a fair bit more difficult to alter en-masse
than what a digital copy would. Yeah you can compare hashes to find out

I think having both a good idea. The important documents must be on
paper or book form, and have a digital copy as well. Lesser important

If you have watched and understood the movie "Book of Eli" the importance of a hard copy that can be preserved from confiscation seems a smart idea.

Digital also presumes that digital access and digital readers remain available. That uncertainty deserves a separate thread.

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

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The power of the globalists and their death is stored in data centers. Burn data centers with EMP and the new world order will collapse.

<k9zw> ÓÏÏÂÝÉÌ/ÓÏÏÂÝÉÌÁ × ÎÏ×ÏÓÔÑÈ ÓÌÅÄÕÀÝÅÅ: news:18...

On 22 Sep 2022, debian said the following...

A physical copy would be a fair bit more difficult to alter en-masse
than what a digital copy would. Yeah you can compare hashes to find

out

I think having both a good idea. The important documents must be on
paper or book form, and have a digital copy as well. Lesser important

If you have watched and understood the movie "Book of Eli" the importance
of a hard copy that can be preserved from confiscation seems a smart idea.

Digital also presumes that digital access and digital readers remain available. That uncertainty deserves a separate thread.

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

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k9zw wrote to warmfuzzy <=-

Digital Arks for light crumbles, and hard copy archives for the deep crash?

In the book Lucifer's Hammer, a comet strikes the earth. One of the more mindful folks out there was in a library frantically using vacuum food
savers to vacuum-pack refeence books.

It's concerning to think how much information is digital-only and incredibly volatile.

It makes me want to pick up an old HP laserjet and a couple of reams of
paper.




... Cut a vital connection
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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I have a Pentium 200mmx on which I installed more than 20 local
encyclopedias, a couple of thousand books and hundreds of information sites with "doubtful" information are stored there. I use two IDE hard drives, 20 and 40 gigabytes. This computer i called the doomsday computer. I checked
the hard drives through S.M.A.R.T for reliability. All of them are in the green sector. I also have hundreds of movie DVDs, original CD-Rom discs with encyclopedia installations and programs for old computers. Because after the "end" only they will be able to work. They don't need internet.

<poindexter FORTRAN>

k9zw wrote to warmfuzzy <=-

Digital Arks for light crumbles, and hard copy archives for the deep

crash?

In the book Lucifer's Hammer, a comet strikes the earth. One of the more

mindful folks out there was in a library frantically using vacuum food

savers to vacuum-pack refeence books.

It's concerning to think how much information is digital-only and
incredibly

volatile.

It makes me want to pick up an old HP laserjet and a couple of reams of

paper.

.. Cut a vital connection

--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52

* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (700:100/20)

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Hello 100/20!

** On Tuesday 08.11.22 - 16:05, 100/20 wrote to k9zw:

In the book Lucifer's Hammer, a comet strikes the earth. One of the more mindful folks out there was in a library frantically using vacuum food
savers to vacuum-pack refeence books.

It's concerning to think how much information is digital-only and incredibly volatile.

It makes me want to pick up an old HP laserjet and a couple of reams of paper.

Don't forget the vacuum food savers! :D

Hello 100/37!

** On Wednesday 09.11.22 - 08:48, 100/37 wrote to All:

I have a Pentium 200mmx on which I installed more than 20 local encyclopedias, a couple of thousand books and hundreds of information sites with "doubtful" information are stored there. I use two IDE hard drives, 20 and 40 gigabytes. This computer i called the doomsday computer. I checked
the hard drives through S.M.A.R.T for reliability. All of them are in the green sector. I also have hundreds of movie DVDs, original CD-Rom discs with encyclopedia installations and programs for old computers. Because after the "end" only they will be able to work. They don't need internet.

<poindexter FORTRAN>

Yeah.. but how much "data" do you need to preserve for the rest
of you lifetime? You can only watch and rewatch a very small
fraction of what your stockpiling. And.. it won't really do any
good for anyone else.

On 09 Jan 2023, Ogg said the following...

Yeah.. but how much "data" do you need to preserve for the rest
of you lifetime? You can only watch and rewatch a very small
fraction of what your stockpiling. And.. it won't really do any
good for anyone else.

I think there are two parts to the question.

1. You can only consume so much media. The trick there is, do you know what media you're going to need? Am I going to need video on preserving meat or rebuilding a 1980s Land Rover? A lot of folks who hoard reference material are firmly in this camp.

2. Nobody else can read or use the data you save. Depending on who you mean, it could do lots of people good. If you're in a community post-crash, then a properly stocked library could make a world of difference in the quality of life of everyone there. If the computer survives 100 or 1000 years and some future digital archaeologist gets access to it, even if they have to do a lot of forensics and recovery, the information contained might not be available anywhere else.

In both cases, it's not just about the archivist's lifetime, it's about preserving data for posterity in a way that can be used to benefit society as a whole if bad things happen.

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