• Perplexed

    From The Godfather@700:100/55 to All on Sun Sep 20 22:00:56 2020
    Hi All,

    I hope this message reaches someone. I know the networks have been a
    bit slow lately unless they are sysop related.

    I'm a bit beside myself lately. I don't remember a time in history
    where I've had to think so carefully about what I want to say or write
    to avoid offending someone, or worse. For example, saying I'm
    Christian, or conservative, that I'm pro-life. That does not mean
    I do not care about equal rights for all; however apparently being an
    over 40 year old white man is a bad things these days, and having any conservative views are not received well, even if innocently expressed unknowingly.

    I bought a hat, from Blue Lines (I think) that had a blue stripe within
    the American flag, to support the two police officers shot recently
    execution style, while they were sitting in their car. One a mother,
    and as a father, that really weighed heavy within my heart. I wore it
    into a grocery store with my at the time 8 year old (he just turned 9,)
    and had gotten some pretty nasty looks and disgusted sounds out of
    somes mouths.

    I've also watched the media, both CNN and Fox, and am just besides
    myself on how angry and misleading both channels are in an effort to
    promote their parties security of power. It never used to be this bad,
    and while I know some of you are from other countries and may not have
    the experience of America other then through the lens of the media, we
    really did get along well not too many years ago.

    Black and Whites date, they get married, they have kids together; we
    work side by side, play sports side by side, we shop within the same
    stores at the same time, our childrens friends are of different races.
    Yet out of nowhere we are a divided racist country and it bothers me
    that people actually believe that.

    They've created this "Systemic Racism" thing .. which is merited in
    that we have a Systemic Problem, but not exclusive to race in the
    states. It's a difference of budgets given to the rich versus poor. I
    live in a neighborhood surrounded by multi million dollar homes, yet my
    home is not worth more than 250,000; nor any within my "hood." We have
    been surrounded by new construction and have needs from the city to
    simply fill potholes within our streets and or patrol our
    neighborhood for speeders as we do not have sidewalks yet lots of
    children trying to ride bikes. Yet our needs are not met because our neighborhood do not bring in the property tax revenue that the more
    expensive, adjacent hoods do. That is, in it of itself, a systemic
    problem as an example.

    Moreso, we have poor communities that are mixed, within Indiana.
    Poverty does not discriminate; yet location does within the US. The
    poor communities get horrible educators, budgets, and building
    maintenance, broadened police patrols, poor waste management, and not
    enough attention from social workers to assist in building stronger
    communities throughout our state. This also happens within Rural
    communities where many are predominantly white, are significantly
    weighted down by poverty, drugs, alcohol, and other stumbling blocks to prosperity or at minimum comfortable middle class income levels.

    I find more and more that the media, despite the ability to do a quick
    search online to prove validity or not, have somehow found a way to
    inject some new form of propaganda and disinformation campaigns that
    are quite disturbing. I find it odd that we live in a country where
    this is not illegal and or at minimum restricted. However our
    constitution have a "freedom of the press" clause that talk show hosts
    seem to be taking advantage of to instill anger and distrust within one another.

    I just had to get this off my chest as I'm praying deeply for our world
    right now. It bothers me that so many put government before God. But
    I understand that a lot of work has occurred by many institutions to
    create a stigma that those who do believe in a higher power, are less intelligent people within this world, and wrong in their beliefs.

    I sincerely do not want to debate. But if there is anyone out there
    also concerned with what they are seeing being projecting on the
    population as whole, I'd sure love to know how you are addressing those
    who seem to lash out at every other word that leaves your lips. I'm
    finding it complicated to speak with anyone these days; frankly, I've
    never felt more discriminated against -- I find myself more isolated as a result. Something isn't right, and I can't put my finger on it; but
    some big players are really working hard to divide and isolate us for
    unknown intents.

    Whether conservative or liberal, I'd love to hear from anyone who also
    sees through the propaganda and disinformation, and has a prospective
    on how to pro actively combat this to bring us as a family closer
    together.

    -tG

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  • From nristen@700:100/25 to The Godfather on Wed Sep 23 17:19:30 2020
    The Godfather wrote to All <=-

    Hi All,

    I hope this message reaches someone. I know the networks have been a
    bit slow lately unless they are sysop related.

    I'm a bit beside myself lately. I don't remember a time in history
    where I've had to think so carefully about what I want to say or write
    to avoid offending someone, or worse. For example, saying I'm
    Christian, or conservative, that I'm pro-life. That does not mean
    I do not care about equal rights for all; however apparently being an
    over 40 year old white man is a bad things these days, and having any conservative views are not received well, even if innocently expressed unknowingly.

    I am marveling at how irrational parts of our society has become. People's behavior has become insane.

    "They became wise in their own eyes."



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  • From The Godfather@700:100/55 to nristen on Thu Sep 24 13:09:16 2020
    I am marveling at how irrational parts of our society has become. People's behavior has become insane.

    Marveling? I'm more concerned, if not a bit worried. What happened to
    the days of awaiting the facts, comparatively to just reacting and
    burning down buildings? Hell .. I don't recall a time since my birth
    in 1971 that it was this bad. Where a lie could be spread via the
    media and thousands freak out and start burning things down. And not
    just in the US .. it spreads to other countries? I mean .. yeah ..
    insane is an understatement.

    -tG

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  • From Black Panther@700:100/7 to The Godfather on Thu Sep 24 13:23:38 2020
    On 24 Sep 2020, The Godfather said the following...

    Marveling? I'm more concerned, if not a bit worried. What happened to the days of awaiting the facts, comparatively to just reacting and
    burning down buildings? Hell .. I don't recall a time since my birth
    in 1971 that it was this bad. Where a lie could be spread via the
    media and thousands freak out and start burning things down. And not
    just in the US .. it spreads to other countries? I mean .. yeah ..
    insane is an understatement.

    The problem now, is we have 24 hour news channels, that all need something to talk about. We also have "social media" where everyone feels they need to
    post their opinions as fact. From the looks of things, we are seeing a political push in hopes of swaying the election in November. Have you heard
    the phrase 'Divide and conquer'? In my opinion, that's what some are trying
    to do right now.


    ---

    Black Panther(RCS)
    aka Dan Richter
    Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    http://github.com/DRPanther
    The sparrows are flying again...

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  • From The Godfather@700:100/55 to Black Panther on Thu Sep 24 21:44:09 2020
    The problem now, is we have 24 hour news channels, that all need
    something to talk about. We also have "social media" where everyone
    feels they need to post their opinions as fact. From the looks of
    things, we are seeing a political push in hopes of swaying the election
    in November. Have you heard the phrase 'Divide and conquer'? In my opinion, that's what some are trying to do right now.


    Agreed Dan, to some extent. But thats always been the case. The
    violence is different. The point that some are willing to go to, in influential positions, to push people to that tipping point for
    political gain .. it's different. Somethings just not right, or legal,
    about whats going on .. beit the politicians, media, or social media,
    something needs to change or more people are just going to continue
    being hurt.

    -tG

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  • From winston1138@700:100/37 to The Godfather on Wed Apr 14 21:33:23 2021
    I too have been thinking on this for a long time. The Word tells us that
    those who believe will be persecuted. However, what is amazing is how so many things/traits/views are being lumped together and burned at the stake so to speak. I remember in the 1980s when we seemed to respect each other's differences more than some people do now.

    I am afraid for traditionally and historically accepted (and enjoyed) books being banned, canceled, and digitally burned. I have begun collecting digital copies of texts I believe to be fundamentally important. Texts such as the
    Holy Bible, the US Constitution, and classic literature titles. I imagine there will be a day within the next five years where we are truly living in the world of Fahrenheit 451.

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  • From Cozmo@700:100/67 to The Godfather on Mon Apr 19 19:48:12 2021
    We are living in a time that I truely thought would'nt happen here in the USA or at least not for many, many years. Truth and facts mean nothing
    anymore. The minority now rule in this country. The news media is one of the main dividers in this country along with social media. It's got to the point where I don't watch the news anymore (local or national). The gov't and the media want to divide the people because if we are unified they can't control us, which is what they really want. Power and Control.

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  • From DustCouncil@700:100/37 to Cozmo on Fri Jul 16 00:01:54 2021
    I think of the main problems we have is this tendency to regard every problem as political. Political radicals always suggest replacing the operating system
    of society with a new one.

    Analyses of the current situation starting in the 1970s with Toffler's Future Shock suggested that the problem was too much information, and that we'd have problems processing it: overload.

    This analysis evolved to a concern with disinformation and propaganda: too much
    "fake news," and we seem to be stuck at this analysis point.

    Seems to me that the bigger problem is garbage-in/garbage-out, combined with hardware problems.

    While it is easy to understand propaganda, profit-driven news agencies pandering to various demographics, and outright lies in service to one agenda or another, what I did not see coming was the deluge of information giving people license to *disbelieve anything which makes them uncomfortable.* The logic goes that since there's so much fallacious information out there, every piece of information is suspect. Any proposition may not merely be questioned,
    but easily rejected: simply find a safe space which confirms what you want to believe. There's always literature, always a "rap," always pre-packaged arguments ready to challenge any idea or trend that upsets someone.

    Accordingly, the problem of our age lies at the intersection of philosophy and psychology: it is fundamentally *epistemological*: By what process shall we come to understand truth, and facts, and objective reality itself? Years of postmodernism has pushed the idea of purely contextual thinking and deconstruction in which the obvious truth that most people do not apprehend objective reality well, is replaced with "there is no objective reality." Occult thinking has a similar concept: "All is mind."

    This problem is atomic, in that it is ultimately suffered by individuals: not social classes, or races, or even the state or corporatism/capitalism, or whatever is convenient to blame. The world "out there" is an effect, or symtom, of the deeper problems of individual consciousness.

    You can abolish (pick your ideological poison): The state, capitalism, the military, the media, but like cutting a weed off at its base and leaving the root, it will simply re-grow.

    I have read very little about attacking this problem: how can we (a) know what is true, and (b) prioritize knowing objective facts and the way they fit together over (c) what it is convenient to believe, or what relieves us of the cognitive dissonance all intellectually honest people must feel when that nagging doubt about their own politics, worldview, or reality tunnel keeps them
    awake at night?

    How many people have had a static belief system all of their lives? Consider only politics (we could talk about religion or other things too) -- how many people first developed political consciousness, only to change or evolve on certain issues or topics (or even make an about-face?)

    A more interesting question is this: if indeed most people have changed their minds in light of better evidence or arguments, how many people are likely to express the same opinions they hold today, 20 years from now?

    And if it is true that our thinking evolves, and that we have in the fact been wrong about one thing or another in the past, does it not hold true that we are
    probably wrong about something today?

    Why is everyone screaming at each other?

    Why is everyone afraid to admit that while we have a sense of justice and morality (we should), ultimately reality is complex enough that most of us don't have much of an idea of what we are talking about.

    One thing I have noticed about people who are always at war with the status quo
    is there is no access to an alternate timeline in which their ideological fetishes were instituted, and the consequences of those policies measured against the status quo. How awfully convenient it is for the perpetually ideologically aggrieved to never have have to put up or shut up.

    I became increasingly apolitical after my political science degree in large part because I started noticing that people on my own side (I had a particular ideological posture in those years) barely understood their opponents' arguments. I'd hear commentary on books, thinkers, authors, and ideas I knew they were unfamiliar with, plagiarizing someone else's commentary on those subjects.

    This is difficult to tackle. It's a whole lot more difficult than simply saying, "Hey, we should snap our fingers and try this *ism rather than the current *ism and that would fix everything," as if there isn't a butterfly effect-like chain of largely unintended consequences of nearly any political policy or lens through which we see the world. People seem to indicate they *really know what things would look like* if they put their ideas into practice; an arrogant presumption largely because we have only ever walked in our own shoes and most people barely understand themselves, much less the billions of people on the planet and how they think and what motivates them.

    Even the big things: sex, power, greed/money. We know these motivate people but they sure seem to motivate some people more than others. Some stand up against them as vices and others turn them into religions.

    I have no desire to pick on anarchists but it was the anarchists who made me lose my composure first: I read an argument, I think, in Red Emma Speaks, about
    how crime is mainly a product of an exploitative economic system and the state which supports it. Abolish the state, create participatory democracy, and crime will cease.

    I have no doubt *some crime* would cease. People who don't worry about losing a roof over their heads (as would be the case in anarchism) are less likely to engage in robbery (itself an absurdity since property is abolished and only "possessions" in the anarchist sense) remain.

    I don't know if this idea strikes anyone else as ludicrous, but it does to me.
    You can abolish the state, abolish the police, burn the jackboots, and yet, in the end, you will wind up with with what we had here in Tucson in the Old West:
    vigilance committees. Someone to "put a bit of stick about," and in all likelihood a mob.

    Because for want of basic things, is not the only, or main reason, people engage in robbery. How often do you read your local police blotter sections in
    newspapers which involve people stealing food, diapers, baby formula, and warm blankets?

    This is just one example, but there are many others. Ideology cannot save us, in large part because ideology is an *emergent* phenomenon, created by the aggregate effects of individual human consciousness. But if individual human consciousness is broken (I'd argue it is), how can it produce a workable universally-applied system (like a guiding ideology and a state or equivalent to enforce its edicts?)

    Garbage in is bad human consciousness, and garbage out, is the political system
    and its parts: police, military, and the state itself.

    Anyway just kidding about all of the above; this is what happens when I am jonesing for a good root beer.

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