• How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network

    From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 08:53:16 2014
    Subject: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point.

    I realize most of you home repair and wireless router gurus
    probably already know all of this; but, it took me quite a
    while to figure out (from various sources) how to set up
    a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 home broadband router as a wired
    access point, so, I post my generic notes here for the
    benefit of whomever might need these details.

    How I set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point:

    Note: The Linksys WRT54Gv2 can NOT be set up as a wireless AP
    without flashing the software with DD-WRT or equivalent; so I
    opted for the wired access point which required running a cable
    under the house from the main router wall plate to the spare router.

    HOME WIRING:
    - Connect the primary home broadband router numbered port to the wall plate
    - From the primary wall plate, run a cat5 cable to the secondary wall plate
    - The wiring order was as follows for both ends of all cables:
    (1) solid brown, (2) striped brown, (3) solid green, (4) striped blue,
    (5) solid blue, (6) striped green, (7) solid orange, (8) striped orange
    - Connect the secondary router numbered port to the secondary wall plate

    ROUTER RESET:
    - The primary router SSID was FOOBAR
    - The spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 firmware was at Firmware Version v1.02.8
    - Disconnect all connections on the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router
    - Tape shut the Internet WAN port of the spare WRT54Gv2 router
    - Connect the power supply to the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router
    - Hold the reset button for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
    - Remove the power for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
    - Power the router back on for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
    - Finally, let go of the reset button when the third 30 seconds are up
    NOTE: This is often termed the 30:30:30 factory-reset procedure.

    ROUTER SETUP:
    - Turn off the wireless NIC on the laptop (usually by a hardware switch)
    - Connect an Ethernet cat5 cable to the laptop eth0 port
    - Connect that cat5 cable to a numbered port on the WRT54Gv2 router
    - Set the laptop eth0 IP address to 192.168.1.X (anything higher than 1.1)
    (e.g., on Ubuntu, I used: $ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.2)
    - Make a note of the MAC address of the laptop wlan0 network interface card
    (e.g., $ sudo ifconfig wlan0 | grep HWaddr) ==> 00:A0:00:9B:88:C1
    - Log into the WRT54Gv2 using http://192.168.1.1 (blank/admin)
    Make a note of the MAC address of the spare WRT54Gv2 router LAN ports
    (the sticker on the bottom of the spare WRT54Gv2 says 00:16:B6:88:A0:8A)
    (the spare WRT54Gv2 Setup->MAC Address Clone reports 00:16:B6:88:A0:8B)
    - Setup->Basic Setup->Internet Connection Type->Automatic Configuration - DHCP - Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Local IP Address=192.168.1.200
    (where 200 is anything unused on the primary router's network, and also
    outside the primary router DHCP range of 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150)
    - Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Subnet Mask=255.255.255.0
    - Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->DHCP Server=(o)disable
    (This makes the primary router the only DHCP server, for all connections)
    - Wireless->Basic Wireless Settings->(set up the same as the primary router)
    (i.e., SSID = FOOBAR, Security = WPA2-PSK [AES] with the same passphrase)
    (If the primary router is on ch1, then put the secondary on ch6 or ch11)
    - Change the spare WRT54Gv2 default administrator name & password as needed.
    Administration->Router Password->Password=snafu (repeat)
    Note: There is no way to set a WRT54Gv2 username (i.e., use a blank username)
    - Disconnect the wires, and now the spare WRT54Gv2 is a wired access point

    TESTING AP:
    - Turn on the wireless switch for the WiFi NIC on your laptop
    - Select the spare router SSID of FOOBAR
    Note this is the same as the primary router SSID of FOOBAR
    - No need to enter the passphrase if this is the same SSID as the primary router
    - Connect to the Internet, as desired!
    NOTE: The SSID & security is the same on both routers; so, the only difference is the signal srength and the channel. Your equipment should roam seamlessly.

    DOUBLECHECK SETUP:
    - While wirelessly connected to the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router ...
    - Using any web browser on the laptop, log into http://192.168.1.200
    - Enter the previously set blank username and "snafu" administrator password
    - Check to ensure you're actually connected to the spare router SSID AP
    $ nm-tool
    Reports the primary access point SSID strength of 58 (84:1B:5E:AF:89:A4)
    Reports the secondary access point SSID strength of 100 (00:16:B6:88:A0:8F)
    Reports that I am connected to the (stronger) secondary access point SSID
    Note the asterisk next to the FOOBAR* SSID you're connected to.
    Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different frequencies listed.
    Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different MAC addresses listed.
    Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different signal strengths listed.

    In summary, the procedure above will enable you to wire a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2
    router, using default Linksys firmware, as a wired access point. This extends your wifi range, and allows you to use the same SSID and passphrase for both routers, so that your equipment can roam seamlessly.

    Well, at least it did, for me. :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Dan Purgert@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 12:46:43 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 08/03/2014 03:53, Liam O'Connor wrote:
    [...]
    - Connect the primary home broadband router numbered port to the wall plate
    - From the primary wall plate, run a cat5 cable to the secondary wall plate
    - The wiring order was as follows for both ends of all cables:
    (1) solid brown, (2) striped brown, (3) solid green, (4) striped blue,
    (5) solid blue, (6) striped green, (7) solid orange, (8) striped orange

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring. This isn't a huge deal in a home environment
    (I mean, it works) ... but it's a nice thing to have when your network
    goes on the fritz (and/or for the next person who's in your house).

    Most integrated wall-plates (i.e. the ones where the jack is molded into
    the plate) and keystones (i.e. the ones where you buy a plate with
    1,2,4+ holes, and then jacks that snap in) have the proper color-scheme
    to match the standard 568-A/B wiring practices.

    [...]
    - Log into the WRT54Gv2 using http://192.168.1.1 (blank/admin)
    Make a note of the MAC address of the spare WRT54Gv2 router LAN ports
    (the sticker on the bottom of the spare WRT54Gv2 says 00:16:B6:88:A0:8A)
    (the spare WRT54Gv2 Setup->MAC Address Clone reports 00:16:B6:88:A0:8B)

    The "MAC Address clone" is actually to clone the WAN port. It's kind of
    a "legacy" thing now -- but back in the day, ISPs would hard-lock a
    specific MAC address as the provisioned one ... so if you got a router
    (after having a PC directly connected to the ISP's modem), you couldn't
    get on anymore.

    So clone the MAC of the PC, and it all works again.

    - Setup->Basic Setup->Internet Connection Type->Automatic Configuration -
    DHCP
    - Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Local IP
    Address=192.168.1.200
    (where 200 is anything unused on the primary router's network, and also
    outside the primary router DHCP range of 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150)

    Suggest that you make the "Access Point" router .1.2, and keep a
    "standard" for all your devices.

    For example, I keep all my network hardware (router, switches, AP) is in 10.1.0.0x, servers (fileshare, streaming media, etc) are in 10.1.0.2x,
    end-user devices (PCs phones, whatever) pull from DHCP 10.1.0.10x and 10.1.1.10x (for "untrusted" devices -- i.e. friends/family who want
    internet).


    [...]
    In summary, the procedure above will enable you to wire a spare Linksys
    WRT54Gv2
    router, using default Linksys firmware, as a wired access point. This
    extends
    your wifi range, and allows you to use the same SSID and passphrase for both routers, so that your equipment can roam seamlessly.

    Well, at least it did, for me. :)


    Good deal, setup like this should work until the heat death of the
    universe - those WRT54G routers are solid (best ones are the v1 blue
    bricks -- but the v2 black ones aren't terribad, either).

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 18:56:39 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    those WRT54G routers are solid (best ones are the v1 blue
    bricks -- but the v2 black ones aren't terribad, either).

    Actually, I had made a mistake. I have the anemic (with respect
    to RAM) WRT54G V5 (and not the V2). It can't easily be flashed
    except with a "mini" DD-WRT, which I didn't do.

    So, I'm stuck with it acting as a wired range extender.

    BTW, I found a BETTER Ubuntu command than nm-tool.
    $ nm-tool
    Reports the primary access point SSID strength of 58 (84:1B:5E:AF:89:A4)
    Reports the secondary access point SSID strength of 100
    (00:16:B6:88:A0:8F)
    Reports that I am connected to the (stronger) secondary access point SSID

    On Ubuntu, I just used "iwlist" as follows:
    $ sudo iwlist wlan0 scan

    This reports the SSID, channel, frequency, signal quality,
    the signal strength in decibels, the MAC address, etc.

    The key piece of data is the signal strength, such as
    -45 dBm, which allows me to compare the two duplicate
    SSID signal strengths apples to apples.

    In my situation, with a state-of-the art router as the
    primary router and the old Linksys WRT54G V5 as the
    secondary router, I get both (duplicate) SSIDs all
    over the house, but with vastly different power levels.

    For example, at a point roughly midway in distance
    between the two routers, the iwlist command reports:

    SSID=FOOBAR ch1 2.412GHz Quality= 42/70 Signal= -68dBm
    SSID=FOOBAR ch6 2.437GHz Quality= 59/70 Signal= -51dBm

    The difference of 17dB is astoundingly huge at 50
    times the energy level based on results from here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db.htm

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 18:58:10 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring.

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    However, I had *thought* I was using the standard
    color coding scheme.

    Oh well, too late now! :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 18:59:24 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    The "MAC Address clone" is actually to clone the WAN port.

    I was just using that as a "trick" to figure out the MAC
    address. Turns out there is a better way in the administrator
    area of the WRT54G V5 router, so, please strike the MAC
    clone part from the instructions! :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 19:01:39 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    Suggest that you make the "Access Point" router .1.2,
    and keep a "standard" for all your devices.

    This makes sense.

    The second router *can* be set up as 192.168.1.(anything that
    is not 0 or 1 or 255 or 100 to 150).

    Reading a bit more, I agree with you that most people put
    the secondary router on 192.168.1.2 instead of 192.168.1.200
    like I did.

    Since the primary router is probably set up as a DHCP
    server, it reserves, by default, 100 to 150.

    Both 0 and 255 are reserved, and the primary router is
    usually on 192.168.1.1.

    So, as long as nothing else is on 192.168.1.2 at the time,
    it makes more sense to use 192.168.1.1 for the primary
    router, and then 192.168.1.2 for the secondary router.

    I will change it, and reboot the whole house. :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 19:51:32 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 19:23:02 +0000, T i m wrote:

    From a more practical / long term pov, that if you were using
    'punch-down' connectors in the wall plates that you used solid
    conductor cables (not stranded 'patch' cable).

    Yes. I used the more expensive solid stuff.

    It's the pink plenum stuff. Not as pliable as patch cable.
    But more pliable than the shielded stuff (which I also have).

    I think, next time, I'll try the really thick stiff
    shielded stuff, and see if it makes a difference.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Dan Purgert@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 20:25:31 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 08/03/2014 13:58, Liam O'Connor wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring.

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    However, I had *thought* I was using the standard
    color coding scheme.

    Oh well, too late now! :)



    Yeah, the color is just there so you know which wire you're talking
    about on both ends. If you had a problem on (for example) wire 7 it can
    be hard to diagnose -- "OK wire 7 should be the light brown ...
    (re-punch it) ... it's still not working!"

    Really it depends on the sticker on the keystone/wallplate -- looking at
    what you did, it's T568B, but looking at it from pins 8-1 (i.e. backwards).

    Standard left-to-right (1-8) pinouts for T568B wiring is

    "Light" Orange (i.e. with the white stripe)
    Orange
    Light Green
    Blue
    Light Blue
    Green
    Light Brown
    Brown

    T568A swaps the Orange and Green pairs - which is what I tend to use.

    So it could be that the jacks you used did pins 8-1 on the back, so that
    when you look at it from the "front side" things are in the proper
    orientation.



    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Dan Purgert@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 8 20:36:49 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 08/03/2014 14:01, Liam O'Connor wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    Suggest that you make the "Access Point" router .1.2,
    and keep a "standard" for all your devices.

    This makes sense.

    The second router *can* be set up as 192.168.1.(anything that
    is not 0 or 1 or 255 or 100 to 150).

    Right --

    *.0 is the network address itself, reserved for when you're talking
    about the network as a whole (e.g. "192.168.1.0/24" is a typical
    residential network, as given by most SOHO routers).

    *.255 is a broadcast address. This is used for stuff like your laptop
    sending out packets to the effect of "hey, who has 192.168.1.10?". All
    devices (regardless of their IP address) listen on the *.255 address.


    Reading a bit more, I agree with you that most people put
    the secondary router on 192.168.1.2 instead of 192.168.1.200
    like I did.

    Since the primary router is probably set up as a DHCP
    server, it reserves, by default, 100 to 150.

    Both 0 and 255 are reserved, and the primary router is
    usually on 192.168.1.1.

    So, as long as nothing else is on 192.168.1.2 at the time,
    it makes more sense to use 192.168.1.1 for the primary
    router, and then 192.168.1.2 for the secondary router.

    I will change it, and reboot the whole house. :)

    Shouldn't need to reboot anything.

    DNS and DCHP are controlled by your main router, and the secondary
    router is ONLY acting as an AP. Worst case is that you'll need to flip
    the hardware switch on the wireless devices so they will re-look for the network after the second router comes back up -- and that's a "worst
    case" scenario.

    -Dan

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Big Bad Bob@1:0/0 to All on Sun Mar 9 01:42:23 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 03/08/14 00:53, Liam O'Connor so wittily quipped:
    How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point.

    does the newest firmware support WDS? then you'd just configure all APs
    for WDS with the same SSID, and enable roaming on your client machine,
    and the client simply picks the best AP. I think that WDS will allow a
    remote AP to act as a client of the master, and route between them
    wirelessly. For most uses that would be good enough.

    found this link: http://www.connect802.com/wireless_bridging.htm



    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS telnet://fido2.kofobb
  • From Scott Hemphill@1:0/0 to All on Sun Mar 9 03:07:25 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender
    Reply-To: hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu

    Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring.

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    However, I had *thought* I was using the standard
    color coding scheme.

    Oh well, too late now! :)

    It isn't sufficient that that the colors match. The pairs must be on
    the correct pins, or the cable will not work. (The wires in a pair
    shield each other.)

    Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
    stripe of the same color.

    Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
    Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
    Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
    Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.

    Scott
    --
    Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu
    "This isn't flying. This is falling, with style." -- Buzz Lightyear

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS telnet://fido2.kofobb
  • From Scott Hemphill@1:0/0 to All on Sun Mar 9 03:18:03 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender
    Reply-To: hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu

    Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> writes:

    Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring.

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    However, I had *thought* I was using the standard
    color coding scheme.

    Oh well, too late now! :)

    It isn't sufficient that that the colors match. The pairs must be on
    the correct pins, or the cable will not work. (The wires in a pair
    shield each other.)

    Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
    stripe of the same color.

    Hmmm. I guess I should have proofread this sentence after editing it.

    Each colored wire forms a pair with the white wire that has a stripe of
    the same color.


    Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
    Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
    Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
    Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.

    Scott

    --
    Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu
    "This isn't flying. This is falling, with style." -- Buzz Lightyear

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS telnet://fido2.kofobb
  • From Bit Twister@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 03:49:00 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
    60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

    For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 03:06:31 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 15:36:49 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    DNS and DCHP are controlled by your main router, and the secondary
    router is ONLY acting as an AP. Worst case is that you'll need to flip
    the hardware switch on the wireless devices so they will re-look for the network after the second router comes back up

    What you said was exactly on target.

    All the wireless clients seemed to do just fine, with the
    exception of the ps3.

    The ps3 gave the error:
    An error occurred during communication with the server.
    This is a DNS error.
    (8071002)

    I had to reboot the network, and re-adjust the settings on the PS3: Settings->Network Settings->Internet Connection Settings->Adjust
    settings->Easy

    You'd think the PS3 would be smarter, but it wasn't.

    The kids are still getting a random disconnect from PSN
    which they hadn't seen before.

    Googling, I had to disable the media server.
    Settings->Network Settings->Media Server Connection->Disabled

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 04:49:00 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 21:07:25 -0500, Scott Hemphill
    <hemphill@hemphills.net> Gave us:

    Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
    the standards for wiring.

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    However, I had *thought* I was using the standard
    color coding scheme.

    Oh well, too late now! :)

    It isn't sufficient that that the colors match. The pairs must be on
    the correct pins, or the cable will not work. (The wires in a pair
    shield each other.)

    Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
    stripe of the same color.

    Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
    Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
    Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
    Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.

    Scott


    Yes and the actual pair that gets put on those pins matter as well.
    The colors are not there merely for you to get the other end right.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 04:51:03 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 02:49:00 +0000 (UTC), Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> Gave us:

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
    60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

    For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11


    NOT "up to a point". The actual wire pair used on each numbered pair
    DOES matter.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 04:54:21 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 19:06:31 -0800, Liam O'Connor
    <liamoconnor@example.com> Gave us:

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 15:36:49 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    DNS and DCHP are controlled by your main router, and the secondary
    router is ONLY acting as an AP. Worst case is that you'll need to flip
    the hardware switch on the wireless devices so they will re-look for the
    network after the second router comes back up

    What you said was exactly on target.

    All the wireless clients seemed to do just fine, with the
    exception of the ps3.

    The ps3 gave the error:
    An error occurred during communication with the server.
    This is a DNS error.
    (8071002)

    I had to reboot the network, and re-adjust the settings on the PS3: >Settings->Network Settings->Internet Connection Settings->Adjust >settings->Easy

    You'd think the PS3 would be smarter, but it wasn't.

    The kids are still getting a random disconnect from PSN
    which they hadn't seen before.

    Googling, I had to disable the media server.
    Settings->Network Settings->Media Server Connection->Disabled


    Thank you sir for that tid bit!

    I can now fix mine. Don't use my dang (broken) PSP with it anyway.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 08:20:25 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
    60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

    Perhaps you missed it, but the OP had correct wiring right
    from the start. He clearly got it right in terms of not
    splitting a pair, and apparently understood exactly why

    The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
    difference is exactly right. It doesn't.

    For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11

    Your cite is nearly worthless. First, RJ11 has nothing at all
    to do with this discussion. But that entire article is also
    quite confusing and disorganized. If one already knows how to
    match the correct information with each use, it can be found;
    but trying to learn which configuration is appropriate from the
    article isn't possible.

    Either TIA/EIA-568-A or TIA/EIA-568-B wiring schemes can be
    used, and it makes absolutely no difference.

    In fact, there is a good argument that for either 10baseT or
    faster EtherNet, the color scheme should actualy be:

    Pin Color
    1 Blue Tip
    2 Blue Ring
    3 Orange Tip
    4 --
    5 --
    6 Orange Ring
    7 --
    8 --

    The pins marked '--' can be associated with any wire as they are
    unused. The argument for this use is simple, as the ordering of
    the colored pairs is supposed to be Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
    Slate.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 08:56:19 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 02:49:00 +0000 (UTC), Bit Twister ><BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> Gave us:

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:

    Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".

    I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
    color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
    a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

    Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
    60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

    For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs: >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11

    NOT "up to a point". The actual wire pair used on each numbered pair
    DOES matter.

    The original concept was Pair 1 on pins 4/5, Pair 2 on pins 3/6,
    Pair 3 on pins 2/7 and Pair 4 on pins 1/8. That works fine,
    just as stated, "up to a point"! For voice frequency or low
    speed data... but the distance between pins on the plug for
    Pairs 3 and 4 is too great for high speed data.

    At high bit rates the intention is to keep the Tip and Ring of
    each pair closer together than worst case.

    Hence pins 1/2 are a pair and pins 7/8 are a pair to maintain
    physical proximity on the plug. The significance is the length
    of conductor that is not twisted with it's mate. Higher
    frequency data requires a higher twist rate, but the physical
    construction of the plug means there is about 9/16" more with no
    twist. If the conductors are parallel to each other spaced only
    by the insulation that short distance matters less than if they
    are further separated. When they are 3/8" apart the effect is
    of two independant wires in space, rather than a parallel
    transmission line or twisted pair transmission line.

    The T568A/B standards use the pairs on pins 1/2 and 3/6. Up to
    a point that is close enough proximity, but it isn't the best
    that could be done with that physical socket/plug either.

    All that said, for the use described by the OP, it makes no
    difference in practice! I doubt that even Gigabit EtherNet
    would blink at different pin spacing of pairs in a typical
    environment. When the connection is to a 6 foot rack with
    nothing but jack fields and cables, it counts. Not in a home
    environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Dan Purgert@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 12:03:32 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 08/03/2014 22:06, Liam O'Connor wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 15:36:49 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

    DNS and DCHP are controlled by your main router, and the secondary
    router is ONLY acting as an AP. Worst case is that you'll need to flip
    the hardware switch on the wireless devices so they will re-look for the
    network after the second router comes back up

    What you said was exactly on target.

    All the wireless clients seemed to do just fine, with the
    exception of the ps3.



    I've got one that's ~20 feet (line of sight, even!) from the AP and it
    was DC'ing all the time. I'm thinking that there's just too much
    interference coming from the cable box, TV, etc. to actually keep a
    sustainable wifi connection going. I got lucky and it was really easy
    to just put a run thru the basement back over to the AP (i.e. under the
    floor, and back up).



    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 14:40:55 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
    difference is exactly right. It doesn't.

    At the risk of inserting myself into a conversation where I have
    no business being in due to my almost total lack of the history
    involved ... here's what happened ...

    0. Having never strung cabling before, I looked it up.
    1. I was surprised to see (at least) two main wiring standards.
    2. Looking at the difference, I realized the copper didn't care.
    3. That is, had the wires been bare, the copper is the same on both.
    4. The only difference was the color of the insulation on the wires.
    5. Still unsure, I checked all my patch cables lying around.
    6. It was hard to see inside connectors, even with a magnifying glass.
    7. However, all my patch cables (except xover) were the same scheme.
    8. So, that's the color scheme I ended up using! :)

    But, that's the full extent of my knowledge.

    What confused me is that, had all the wires been bare, they'd
    still be in the same arrangement as the colors that I had arranged.

    So, since color didn't seem to matter, functionally, I wondered *why*
    they had two main standards for me to choose from.

    But, I didn't delve further, so, that's the entire extent of both
    my knowledge, and experience.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 14:56:05 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:03:32 -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:

    've got one that's ~20 feet (line of sight, even!) from the AP
    and it was DC'ing all the time.

    Now that's interesting.
    I had almost exactly the same experience.

    The Play Station 3 is only about 15 feet from the spare Linksys
    WRT54G v5 router, and it was the only client that was ungraceful
    about the new network.

    It was on the "old" SSID of FOOBAR, but my kids said it wasn't
    on the network when I added the spare router as a wired repeater.

    So, I instinctively rebooted the PS3, and that's when it started
    giving the (8071002) DNS error. I doublechecked to see if I could
    set the DNS server to 8.8.8.8 on the spare router, but, I was
    surprised there is no way to do that given its configuration
    (DHCP server turned off, Gateway mode, etc.).

    So then I unplugged backward and rebooted forward (typical
    network reboot procedure). Still it gave the 8071002 DNS error.

    So, Googling I found what appeared to be every kid on the planet
    with the same 8071002 DNS error, most of which simply said to
    tell it to readjust the settings. So, that's what I did:
    Settings->Network Settings->Internet Connection Settings->Adjust
    settings->Easy

    This made the 8071002 DNS error go away. But the kids said they
    could now log into the PSN but it would disconnect them randomly.

    I was perplexed because, as with you, the Sony PS3 is only about
    15 feet from the spare router. In addition, I don't know of *any*
    other sources of interference within 40 feet of that PS3.

    Googling, I found the random disconnect also a typical error,
    although not as prevalent as the 8071002 DNS error. The most
    common solution was to disable the media server:
    Settings->Network Settings->Media Server Connection->Disabled

    At the same time I disabled the Media Server on the PS3 (I had
    to look up what that even was), I plugged a patch cable in from
    the spare router, running loosely along the floor, to the PS3).

    The kids haven't complained.
    So, that's how I left it.
    Until the wife finds out (about the loose wire) ... :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Mark Lloyd@1:0/0 to All on Sun Mar 9 15:50:40 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 03/08/2014 08:07 PM, Scott Hemphill wrote:

    [snip]


    It isn't sufficient that that the colors match. The pairs must be on
    the correct pins, or the cable will not work. (The wires in a pair
    shield each other.)

    AFAIK, it's not shielding but differential signals. The current is each
    wire is opposite. The wires are twisted so any noise affects both
    equally and they're opposite so the effect is canceled out.

    Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
    stripe of the same color.

    Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
    Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
    Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
    Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.

    Scott


    Normally, only the first two of those pairs are used for ethernet. I
    suppose the odd pairing in the middle is to prevent problems caused by
    someone mistakenly plugging a phone cable into an ethernet jack (the
    shapes will center it).

    BTW, to make my own ethernet cables, I put the pairs in orange-green-blue-brown order (closest to red-green-blue) and put solid
    colors on the lower numbered pin. That's to make it easy to remember.

    --
    Mark Lloyd
    http://notstupid.us

    "Might there have been fewer crimes in the name of Jesus, and more mercy
    in the name of Judas Iscariot?" [Thomas Pynchon]

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: Newshosting.com - Highest quality at a great
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 16:21:21 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
    difference is exactly right. It doesn't.

    It didn't with phones.

    It didn't with cat 5 or older.

    It certainly DOES with cat 5e or newer.

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.
    Those twist rate differences are used by the port hardware to test the
    line integrity during the handshake process.

    So it DOES matter which set of which pair of wires is on which set of
    which pair of pins.

    IF you really do want Gigabit per second performance from your network
    hooks.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 16:39:19 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:56:19 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    Not in a home
    environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.


    The crosstalk takes place at that connector. The amount of
    non-twisted wire in the termination itself even matters. There is a
    spec for assemblers, and arriving at a properly constructed cat 6
    termination is not merely stuffing them in and crimping.

    After the pairs are matched up to the right pins, the length of the
    'combed straight' set of wires *must* be trimmed back such that it
    barely makes it all the way into the connector.

    Otherwise, it will not perform out to full spec.

    The best connectorization for cat6 includes a SHIELDED termination
    shroud and shielded cable.

    But yeah... it will not halt a connection at someone's home. It just
    will not pass the data at the full rate. Essentially un-noticed since
    that is not where the bottleneck is.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 18:57:21 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
    difference is exactly right. It doesn't.

    It didn't with phones.

    It didn't with cat 5 or older.

    It certainly DOES with cat 5e or newer.

    Not at all...

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.
    Those twist rate differences are used by the port hardware to test the
    line integrity during the handshake process.

    The twist rate differs on *any* cable with multiple twisted pairs.

    And there is no easy way to detect which pair has a greater or
    lesser twist than any other pair. The twist rate is not used by
    the port hardware to test line integrity.

    So it DOES matter which set of which pair of wires is on which set of
    which pair of pins.

    IF you really do want Gigabit per second performance from your network
    hooks.

    It does not matter in any technical way.

    The coloring is there for easy identification, and of course as
    one would expect there are several different standard ways to
    color code wires. The Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate color
    series are Bell Standard, developed in the US decades before
    EtherNet existed.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 19:07:59 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:56:19 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    Not in a home
    environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.


    The crosstalk takes place at that connector.

    Crosstalk takes place all along a cable. "Near end crosstalk"
    is certainly the most significant though, but that is due to
    higher signal levels on the transmit pairs and lower signal
    levels on the receive pairs than at other points along the
    cable.

    Certainly incorrectly done connectors would add to that.

    The amount of
    non-twisted wire in the termination itself even matters. There is a
    spec for assemblers, and arriving at a properly constructed cat 6
    termination is not merely stuffing them in and crimping.

    There should not be more than 13mm of untwisted wire at the
    connector.

    After the pairs are matched up to the right pins, the length of the
    'combed straight' set of wires *must* be trimmed back such that it
    barely makes it all the way into the connector.

    Otherwise, it will not perform out to full spec.

    The best connectorization for cat6 includes a SHIELDED termination
    shroud and shielded cable.

    Shielded Twisted Pair has it's uses, but generally speaking is
    not better than UTP. The length that can be used is reduced,
    due to the added capacitance. STP is used in more severe
    environments.

    For example, in a telecommunications center where there are
    cable racks with literally thousands of pair of wires, long runs
    between different rows of racks will uses shielded pairs, while
    short runs within the same row of racks will use unshielded
    pairs. That is partialy due to the way grounding systems are
    designed, and if for some reason the ground at one end of a row
    is provided differently tha the ground at the other end, then
    STP would be used instead of UTP.

    But yeah... it will not halt a connection at someone's home. It just
    will not pass the data at the full rate. Essentially un-noticed since
    that is not where the bottleneck is.

    That is not correct. The point is that the any crosstalk would
    be so rare as to be insignificant.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 9 23:07:26 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 10:57:21 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:


    The twist rate differs on *any* cable with multiple twisted pairs.

    Cat 6 has VERY specific twist rates and they differ in the same wire
    very specifically. It is not just some lame manufacturing window the
    maker of the wire needs to comply with to make the claim of it being a
    certain wire. They are specifically (with cat5e and up) two different
    twist rates and belong at different locations on the GbE port and
    therefore also on the connector that gets you into that port.

    Sure, you may get a handshake with your sub orthodox jumper, but why
    differ from what the entire rest of the world does?

    And no, your jumper will not work correctly on a real network link
    that fully taxes the link as a part of its built in reliability testing.

    A bad link anywhere in our gateways gets found pretty much
    instantaneously. Subbing in a sub par jumper gets noted in the
    functional testing, so it must make a difference. Think Nyquist.

    BTW, Floyd.. I consider you as one of the most intelligent folks on
    Usenet and always have for a couple decades now. Back when a.e.e. was
    more popular.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Mon Mar 10 01:05:08 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 10:57:21 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:


    The twist rate differs on *any* cable with multiple twisted pairs.

    Cat 6 has VERY specific twist rates and they differ in the same wire
    very specifically. It is not just some lame manufacturing window the
    maker of the wire needs to comply with to make the claim of it being a >certain wire. They are specifically (with cat5e and up) two different
    twist rates and belong at different locations on the GbE port and
    therefore also on the connector that gets you into that port.

    Sure, you may get a handshake with your sub orthodox jumper, but why
    differ from what the entire rest of the world does?

    It makes exactly *no* difference which pair has which twist rate
    or which pair carries which data.

    Twist rates are also defined specifically in other cables, but
    in fact for Cat 5 cable they are defined as:

    Pair Turns per meter
    Blue 64.8
    Orange 56.2
    Green 65.2
    Brown 51.7

    Note that per TIA/EIA-A and TIA/EIA-B the data will be on the
    Orange and Green pairs. Green has the highest twist and Orange is
    the next to the lowest, clearly indicating that twist is not
    significant to the data rate.

    If maximum difference were important, the twist rates for Brown
    and Blue would have been used for Orange and Green. If the hightest
    twist rate was significant, the twist rate for Blue would have been
    assigned to Orange instead. But in fact *any* twist rate above 50 per
    meter is enough.

    And no, your jumper will not work correctly on a real network link
    that fully taxes the link as a part of its built in reliability testing.

    The hardware cannot detect which twist rate is used on a pair.

    A bad link anywhere in our gateways gets found pretty much
    instantaneously. Subbing in a sub par jumper gets noted in the
    functional testing, so it must make a difference. Think Nyquist.

    How does Nyquist relate to cable pair twist?

    The different twist rates are meant to avoid two pairs laying
    too close to each other over any significant distance.

    Using different twist rates has been standard practice with
    multipair twisted pair cable essentially since Alexander Bell
    discovered the advantages of twisted pair cables. (Don't think
    Nyquist, think about open wire line!)

    BTW, Floyd.. I consider you as one of the most intelligent folks on
    Usenet and always have for a couple decades now. Back when a.e.e. was
    more popular.

    Intelligence may be overrated, and I certainly don't claim to
    have much. What I do have is a few decades of experience with
    testing comm cabling.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Dan Purgert@110:110/2002 to All on Mon Mar 10 01:19:04 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On 09/03/2014 10:40, Liam O'Connor wrote:
    On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
    difference is exactly right. It doesn't.

    At the risk of inserting myself into a conversation where I have
    no business being in due to my almost total lack of the history
    involved ... here's what happened ...

    0. Having never strung cabling before, I looked it up.
    1. I was surprised to see (at least) two main wiring standards.

    Yep, T568A and B. The only difference is where the green and orange
    pairs are.

    2. Looking at the difference, I realized the copper didn't care.
    3. That is, had the wires been bare, the copper is the same on both.
    4. The only difference was the color of the insulation on the wires.

    Yes, yes, yes. It's kinda like home electrical wiring ... you *could*
    use any color wire you wanted (since "the copper doesn't care"), but the standard is:

    Black = Hot
    White = Neutral
    Green (or bare) = Ground.

    110V 3-Way wiring adds in Red (secondary hot)

    220V or higher adds in other "Hot" conductors (I think Yellow, possibly
    Red).

    Granted, this is a "for safety" standard as compared to the "for sanity" telecomms standard ... but the idea is the same -- you want to make the
    guy checking it out 2 years down the road to not have to guess at WTF
    you were up to.

    5. Still unsure, I checked all my patch cables lying around.
    6. It was hard to see inside connectors, even with a magnifying glass.
    7. However, all my patch cables (except xover) were the same scheme.
    8. So, that's the color scheme I ended up using! :)

    [...]

    So, since color didn't seem to matter, functionally, I wondered *why*
    they had two main standards for me to choose from.

    Mainly, it's a "sanity" thing. Also, if you look at them side by side
    (or as close as I can get in text), it might be easier:


    568A: ................. 568B:

    1. Lt. Orange (TX) .... 1. Lt. Green (TX)
    2. Orange (TX) ........ 2. Green (TX)
    3. Lt. Green (RX)...... 3. Lt. Orange (RX)
    4. Blue ............... 4. Blue
    5. Lt. Blue ........... 5. Lt. Blue
    6. Green .............. 6. Orange (RX)
    7. Lt. Brown .......... 7. Lt. Brown
    8. Brown .............. 8. Brown

    As you can (hopefully) see, wiring one end of a cable as 568A and the
    other 568B will create a crossover cable (that is, the Transmit (TX)
    pair on one end is the Receive (RX) pair on the other end). This isn't
    a huge deal since most ports these days are auto-sensing (i.e. they
    figure out which pairs the other end is transmitting on, and set that as
    RX, then TX as the other pair), but it was necessary in the early days
    of Ethernet networking, since most devices were not auto-sensing.

    -Dan

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Liam O'Connor@110:110/2002 to All on Mon Mar 10 17:40:47 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 09:21:21 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.

    This is quite interesting!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: BWH Usenet NNTPSwitch-Cluster (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Mon Mar 10 20:06:43 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 09:21:21 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.

    This is quite interesting!

    But of course that is not unique to "the new cabling". Multipair
    twisted pair cable has all been made that way for literally
    decades, long before the advent of Ethernet.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Tue Mar 11 03:07:56 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:40:47 -0700, Liam O'Connor
    <liamoconnor@example.com> Gave us:

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 09:21:21 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.

    This is quite interesting!


    Apparently not to some.

    I can guarantee you it IS of interest to the hardware you are hooking
    into. Some of it even cares one way or the other.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Tue Mar 11 10:36:38 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:40:47 -0700, Liam O'Connor
    <liamoconnor@example.com> Gave us:

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 09:21:21 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

    The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.

    This is quite interesting!

    Apparently not to some.

    It is of interest to virtually everyone. It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    I can guarantee you it IS of interest to the hardware you are hooking
    into. Some of it even cares one way or the other.

    Show us a cite where *anyone* that is credible demonstrates that
    as a fact.

    I guarantee you the hardware cannot determine the difference in
    twist rate between 50 per meter and 70 per meter. Which is to
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 02:30:54 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were
    pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 02:33:44 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    Show us a cite where *anyone* that is credible demonstrates that
    as a fact.

    I guarantee you the hardware cannot determine the difference in
    twist rate between 50 per meter and 70 per meter. Which is to
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    I already said that CAT 5 SUCKS!

    Where the fuck were you?

    Oh and YES, the HARDWARE DOES test the line and some CAN tell you if
    you are miswired, and nearly all can tell you how far down a line it is
    broken in a bad wire circumstance. Those tests are made more reliably
    by the twist variances.

    Guess some folks haven't been keeping up.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 07:13:45 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were
    pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT!

    What does latency have to do with this discussion?

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 07:36:02 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    Show us a cite where *anyone* that is credible demonstrates that
    as a fact.

    I guarantee you the hardware cannot determine the difference in
    twist rate between 50 per meter and 70 per meter. Which is to
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    I already said that CAT 5 SUCKS!

    Where the fuck were you?

    CAT5 cable does not "suck".

    Oh and YES, the HARDWARE DOES test the line and some CAN tell you if
    you are miswired, and nearly all can tell you how far down a line it is >broken in a bad wire circumstance. Those tests are made more reliably
    by the twist variances.

    An EtherNet interface can't even detect a split pair, and it
    certainly cannot determine if the brown pair is exchanged with
    the blue pair.

    So just find a cite to explain anything about how that is done.

    While a normal EtherNet interface does not have that type of
    built in test capability, there are examples of test equipment
    available, that can be manually applied to a line, which will
    test for all variety of wiring errors. Using a Time Domain
    Reflectometer it is possible to locate specific faults such as
    the impedance bump from a broken wire (or for that matter from
    too sharp a bend in the wire).

    Guess some folks haven't been keeping up.

    Lets go back to the basic question, and restate the facts: The
    specific color and or pair number in a CAT5, CAT5E, or CAT6
    cable is not significant. If different pairs are wired to the
    appropriate pins for a particular data pair the connecting
    interface will still function exactly as it should.

    What that means in practical terms is that a cable can be wired
    as T568A or T568B (or another "standard") as long as both ends
    use the same standard.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From ceed@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 17:05:32 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point
    network extender

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:36:02 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    I already said that CAT 5 SUCKS!

    Where the fuck were you?

    CAT5 cable does not "suck".

    I have everything wired with CAT6 cables, not because I am convinced I
    need to but because there's not much difference in price. It would be interesting to know why CAT5 may suck and what kind of cabling doesn't
    though! :)

    --
    //ceed (indeed)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: albasani.net (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Eef Hartman@1:0/0 to All on Wed Mar 12 19:27:08 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    In alt.os.linux Floyd L. Davidson <floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    But the OP was talking about a CAT 6 (six, not five) cable.
    CATegory 6 cabling is for higher network speeds - like 1 GB/s -
    (so called 1000BASE-T). It has a 250 MHz bandwidth as compared to
    only 100 for CAT 5

    PS: in the (still higher speed) CAT 7 cables the individual twisted
    pairs are shielded INSIDE the cable against each other.
    This permits frequencies up to 600 MHz
    --
    *****************************************************************
    ** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. EWI/CE **
    ** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl - phone: +31-15-27 82525 ** *****************************************************************

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS telnet://fido2.kofobb
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Wed Mar 12 21:32:33 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    Eef Hartman <E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl> wrote:
    In alt.os.linux Floyd L. Davidson <floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    But the OP was talking about a CAT 6 (six, not five) cable.

    His initial statements did not specify any category, and the
    discussion previous had been about CAT 5. When challenged
    he specified CAT5e and later cables.

    The point is *still* the same: the interface hardware cannot
    determine what the twist rate is, does not test which pairs are
    used for which data, and will work perfectly well regardless of
    which cable pair is assigned to which data. And that is by
    design, not accident.

    CATegory 6 cabling is for higher network speeds - like 1 GB/s -
    (so called 1000BASE-T). It has a 250 MHz bandwidth as compared to
    only 100 for CAT 5

    PS: in the (still higher speed) CAT 7 cables the individual twisted
    pairs are shielded INSIDE the cable against each other.
    This permits frequencies up to 600 MHz

    CAT7 is not UTP, and is outside the range this discussion has
    covered so far.

    Regardless, the target speeds for each category level has not
    been under contention, and anyone can use Google to get more
    information if desired.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Thu Mar 13 04:30:40 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:13:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were >>pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT!

    What does latency have to do with this discussion?


    The different characteristic of the two types of tp included in the
    cable. It allows the port hardware to perform the testing I mentioned.


    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Thu Mar 13 04:48:50 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:36:02 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    If different pairs are wired to the
    appropriate pins for a particular data pair the connecting
    interface will still function

    yep

    exactly as it should.

    nope.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Thu Mar 13 12:44:17 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:13:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were >>>pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT!

    What does latency have to do with this discussion?

    The different characteristic of the two types of tp included in the
    cable. It allows the port hardware to perform the testing I mentioned.

    Which is to say that latency has exactly nothing to do with the cable
    used, with the twist rate, or the non-existant testing you claim.

    Latency is not a function of the cable.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Thu Mar 13 12:46:17 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:36:02 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    If different pairs are wired to the
    appropriate pins for a particular data pair the connecting
    interface will still function

    yep

    exactly as it should.

    nope.

    If that is true, why can't you cite discussion of it by other
    sources? Why can't you even explain how it would happen?

    I'll repeat it again, there will not be any degradation of the
    signal or the performance due to the use of different cable
    pairs.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 02:18:04 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On 12 Mar 2014 19:27:08 GMT, Eef Hartman <E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl> Gave
    us:

    In alt.os.linux Floyd L. Davidson <floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:
    say that it cannot determine which pair is which in a CAT 5
    cable.

    But the OP was talking about a CAT 6 (six, not five) cable.
    CATegory 6 cabling is for higher network speeds - like 1 GB/s -
    (so called 1000BASE-T). It has a 250 MHz bandwidth as compared to
    only 100 for CAT 5

    PS: in the (still higher speed) CAT 7 cables the individual twisted
    pairs are shielded INSIDE the cable against each other.
    This permits frequencies up to 600 MHz


    Even though we fashion hand fabricated cat 7 runs at work for some mil
    stuff, it is not a recognized standard.

    We do it mostly for Tempest shielding requirements.

    The T i m m y T a r d will have to look that one up.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 03:20:15 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 04:44:17 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:13:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>>Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were >>>>pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT!

    What does latency have to do with this discussion?

    The different characteristic of the two types of tp included in the >>cable. It allows the port hardware to perform the testing I mentioned.

    Which is to say that latency has exactly nothing to do with the cable
    used, with the twist rate, or the non-existant testing you claim.

    Latency is not a function of the cable.

    It is a function of the test.

    Mustn't put badly fabbed cables into the system.

    Nice pass on backing up Bell.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 04:30:35 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 04:44:17 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:13:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>>>Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were >>>>>pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT! >>>>
    What does latency have to do with this discussion?

    The different characteristic of the two types of tp included in the >>>cable. It allows the port hardware to perform the testing I mentioned.

    Which is to say that latency has exactly nothing to do with the cable
    used, with the twist rate, or the non-existant testing you claim.

    Latency is not a function of the cable.

    It is a function of the test.

    Do you know what "latency" means. A test does not have latency
    any more than a cable does.

    Mustn't put badly fabbed cables into the system.

    Nice pass on backing up Bell.

    Poor digression on your part, but it does demonstrate a certain
    level of integrity, or lack of such.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 05:59:18 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:30:35 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 04:44:17 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:13:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:36:38 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>>>>Gave us:

    It is of interest to virtually everyone.

    Apparently not.

    It was discovered by
    Alexander Graham Bell himself.

    You mean the jackass who stole the phone from Meucci?

    Doubtful he came upi with anything himself. He and his employer were >>>>>>pure thieves.

    Yeah... I have every confidence that he knew what latency was... NOT! >>>>>
    What does latency have to do with this discussion?

    The different characteristic of the two types of tp included in the >>>>cable. It allows the port hardware to perform the testing I mentioned.

    Which is to say that latency has exactly nothing to do with the cable >>>used, with the twist rate, or the non-existant testing you claim.

    Latency is not a function of the cable.

    It is a function of the test.

    Do you know what "latency" means.

    Is that a question?

    A test does not have latency
    any more than a cable does.

    The test(s) utilize timing differences to make the aforementioned determinations.


    Mustn't put badly fabbed cables into the system.

    Nice pass on backing up Bell.

    Poor digression on your part,

    Where? You mentioned an asshole and described him like he was some
    fucking god.

    I mentioned that he was an asshole, and you didn't even retort. I
    guess I wouldn't want you in the same foxhole as I. I wont digress to relinquishment of trust. Digression, my ass.

    but it does demonstrate a certain
    level of integrity, or lack of such.

    You sure you want to follow the troll into this realm, Floyd?

    Attacking my character... not too bright.

    You know I work on state of the art equipment, right?

    I help keep people like you safe.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From mechanic@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 11:31:21 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 22:59:18 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    You know I work on state of the art equipment, right?

    I help keep people like you safe.

    Isn't there a famous scene in some Apollo film where a visitor to
    NASA asks a cleaner in a corridor: "And what do you do here", the
    response was "I'm sending a man to the Moon!"

    Eerily familiar.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: Aioe.org NNTP Server (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 12:31:02 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:30:35 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:
    Do you know what "latency" means.

    Is that a question?

    No.

    A test does not have latency
    any more than a cable does.

    The test(s) utilize timing differences to make the aforementioned
    determinations.

    Timing differences is not latency and interface hardware does
    not make such tests.

    The signal *delay* through an interface is "latency", and it has
    virtually nothing (measurable) to do with the twist of the
    cable pairs. That is for the simple reason that variations in
    the rather huge by comparison latency of other parts of a transmission
    system would make such measurements impossible without significant
    expense.

    That is, yes the effect of different twist can be measured but the
    test setup will cost thousands of dollars per cable segment to do
    it. A million dollar network becomes a billion dollar network...

    Mustn't put badly fabbed cables into the system.

    Then it would be appropriate to purchase and use the test equipment
    required to assure cables meet specifications.


    Nice pass on backing up Bell.

    Poor digression on your part,

    Where? You mentioned an asshole and described him like he was some
    fucking god.

    I mentioned that he was an asshole, and you didn't even retort. I
    guess I wouldn't want you in the same foxhole as I. I wont digress to >relinquishment of trust. Digression, my ass.

    It's a digression when you go off topic to something that has no
    significance, express yourself in an extremely crude and rude
    way for no purpose other than your own emotional satisfaction.

    My reference to Bell had logical significance to the discussion,
    yours was only emotional and only to you.

    but it does demonstrate a certain
    level of integrity, or lack of such.

    You sure you want to follow the troll into this realm, Floyd?

    Well, as you noted above, I "didn't even retort". I have no
    reason to follow you into that realm.

    Attacking my character... not too bright.

    You know I work on state of the art equipment, right?

    I help keep people like you safe.

    That may be, but I certainly am not aware of whether you do or
    don't. What is very clear is that you do not have technical
    knowledge of the equipment we are discussing. That doesn't
    prevent you from using it to a purpose, or suggest that you
    don't have operational skills, but it limits your credibility
    in describing it's functionality.

    Using the equipment is one thing, designing or trouble shooting
    its function is something very different.

    As others have alluded, the janitor may not be a design
    engineer, but he will have exactly the same mission goal!

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From mechanic@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 13:45:58 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 04:31:02 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    As others have alluded, the janitor may not be a design
    engineer, but he will have exactly the same mission goal!

    Yes there's nothing wrong with that as that kind of community spirit
    raises morale in the team, and makes clear what it is that gets them
    out of bed in the morning.

    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in
    particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce
    crosstalk between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet
    applications?

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: Aioe.org NNTP Server (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 15:26:14 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 04:31:02 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    As others have alluded, the janitor may not be a design
    engineer, but he will have exactly the same mission goal!

    Yes there's nothing wrong with that as that kind of community spirit
    raises morale in the team, and makes clear what it is that gets them
    out of bed in the morning.

    Yep. Maybe design engineers are more critical, and higher paid,
    but the janitor really does contribute to the mission too!

    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in
    particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce
    crosstalk between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet
    applications?

    Crosstalk between pairs is the main issue with higher speed
    networking! Almost every difference between a modern CAT5 or
    CAT6 cable and the typical twisted pair drop cable used for a
    telephone 100 years ago is specifically intended to increase the
    speed of data by reducing crosstalk.

    But... the network interface does not do standards compliance
    testing!

    A network interface today is dime-a-dozen mass produced drop in
    device. The test equipment required to do such testing is not
    inexpensive.

    It is probably also worth noting that such test equipment does
    not measure or even indicate what the twist rate is on a pair.
    It just measures crosstalk levels and indicates a pass/fail
    condition, but not a reason for either.

    If a given cable segment fails though, other tests are available
    which might (or not) indicate a reason. Time Domain
    Reflectometry testing can show "impedance bumps" at a given
    distance from the end of a cable. But again, it doesn't
    indicate why there is an anomaly. A cable might have been
    spliced, it might have a bad connection, it might be crimped, it
    might have a poorly fabricated connector, etc etc. Any of those
    will show up as a point where the impedance is out of
    specifications, and it requires a visual inspection to determine
    what physical the cause is.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From John Hasler@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 16:07:03 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    mechanic wrote:
    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in
    particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce crosstalk
    between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet applications?

    Think about two twisted pairs running close together for a long
    distance. The field is not confined between the wires in a pair: a bit
    leaks out into the surrounding space. If there is another pair close by
    the field couples a bit of the signal into it. If the pairs have
    exactly the same twist rate this coupled interference will always be in
    the same phase and so will add up over a long run and cause problems.
    If the twist rates are slightly different the interference will vary in
    phase by 180 degrees over a length proportional to the difference in
    twist rate and so will average to zero. The problem gets worse at
    higher frequency so Ethernet is more sensitive to it.

    This effect was observed (and dealt with) in long 600 ohm open wire
    lines more than 100 years ago.
    --
    John Hasler
    jhasler@newsguy.com
    Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, WI USA

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: Dancing Horse Hill (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Fri Mar 14 18:23:43 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
    mechanic wrote:
    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in
    particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce crosstalk
    between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet applications?

    Think about two twisted pairs running close together for a long
    distance. The field is not confined between the wires in a pair: a bit
    leaks out into the surrounding space. If there is another pair close by
    the field couples a bit of the signal into it.

    Up to this point that is correct.

    If the pairs have
    exactly the same twist rate this coupled interference will always be in
    the same phase and so will add up over a long run and cause problems.

    The twist rate will not change the phase of the signal, either
    in the wire or induced into an adjacent wire, to any significant
    degree.

    If the twist rates are slightly different the interference will vary in
    phase by 180 degrees over a length proportional to the difference in
    twist rate and so will average to zero. The problem gets worse at
    higher frequency so Ethernet is more sensitive to it.

    While that change in phase rate will happen, it will not average to zero
    at any point in time at the cable termination. It will average to zero
    over a period of time, which is not useful

    This effect was observed (and dealt with) in long 600 ohm open wire
    lines more than 100 years ago.

    That's not the significance though. Phase makes exactly zero
    difference in regard common mode rejection of induced noise. If
    the signals have a given phase relationship it will remain
    exactly the same as long as the *length* of each pair is the
    same.

    The problem with having two pairs with the same twist is that
    they can and will end up physically aligned in such a way that
    each tip, for example, will have the same proximity to the other
    tip over an extended distance that will not be on an average
    equal to the proximity to the other ring. Thus unequal voltages
    will be induced between the tip and ring of each pair.

    Because each pair has a differential signal, resulting in common
    mode rejection of induced voltages, the twist is there to ensure
    that exposure to both tip and ring is of equal intensity for any
    given external field. If a field, for example, extends along
    one inch of the pair, and the pair has 50 twists per inch, the
    exposure to the tip will be very close to exactly the same as to
    the ring. Without the twist the field would be closer to one
    wire than to the other, and the induced voltages would be
    different.

    If the source of a field is another pair though, having the same
    twist would allow the wires to have the same unequal exposure
    tip to tip over an extended distance because a twist in one pair
    would match the twist, and distance, to the other pair. By
    using a different twist in each pair there will be a varying
    exposure over a significant distance, and that will cancel out
    the unequal exposure over any short distance.

    It is purely the strength of the signal induced, which is a
    function of distance. Other variations could affect it, but the
    cable is of course manufactured to minimize the significance of
    any other variation. Thickness and composition of insulation
    are examples where uniformity is important.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 04:50:01 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:31:21 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave
    us:

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 22:59:18 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    You know I work on state of the art equipment, right?

    I help keep people like you safe.

    Isn't there a famous scene in some Apollo film where a visitor to
    NASA asks a cleaner in a corridor: "And what do you do here", the
    response was "I'm sending a man to the Moon!"

    Eerily familiar.

    Yet I still get the feeling from each post you make that you are
    eerily retarded.

    Trust me, pal, my baseband gateways are the best wireless devices on
    the planet surface. Even the big players in Europe, asia and australia
    are buying our gear.

    That is just the gear that I am able to discuss.

    You lose... again.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 04:54:08 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 04:31:02 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:


    It's a digression when you go off topic to something that has no >significance,

    You are the apparently low integrity dork who brought Bell up.

    Talk about no significance. What did you steal to get where you are?

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 04:58:59 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 04:31:02 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    You sure you want to follow the troll into this realm, Floyd?

    Well, as you noted above, I "didn't even retort". I have no
    reason to follow you into that realm.

    I was referring to the troll who has been attacking my character.

    Nice attempt at twisting things though. Pretty obvious you knew what
    I meant.

    So, I guess now, you have reverted to playing? You can shove that
    stupid shit as well as your attacks on me right up your ass, pal.

    And you had the gall to cite me for being off topic.

    You want to attack someone, go find a bridge, and jump off. Attack
    yourself. Stop acting like a 4-F twit.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 05:02:25 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:45:58 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave
    us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 04:31:02 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    As others have alluded, the janitor may not be a design
    engineer, but he will have exactly the same mission goal!

    Yes there's nothing wrong with that as that kind of community spirit
    raises morale in the team, and makes clear what it is that gets them
    out of bed in the morning.

    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in
    particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce
    crosstalk between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet
    applications?


    It was mentioned. You just do not know how to read, much less read a
    thread.

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted
    segment?

    Learn to read instead of simpleton perusal. You won't look like such
    a simpleton that way.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 05:53:23 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:45:58 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave
    us:
    As to this twisted pair thing, I've no idea what the specs are in >>particular cables but no-one seems to have mentioned the purpose of
    such a feature (if indeed it exists) - presumably to reduce
    crosstalk between pairs, but is that important in Ethernet
    applications?

    It was mentioned. You just do not know how to read, much less read a
    thread.

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted >segment?

    Crosstalk is not limited to "the terminations", nor for that
    matter is that even where most of it should normally occur. It
    is quite true that most often out of specification crosstalk
    will be due to faults at the connectors, but that is simply
    because no other part of the cable is usually worked on.

    With an in specs cable there is more crosstalk, generally, in
    about the first 10-20% of the length of the cable, at each end.
    That obviously includes the connectors, but it is far from
    restricted to it. The reason is simply that the RX pair has
    the lowest signal and the TX pair has the highest signal that
    they exhibit at any point along the cable.

    Learn to read instead of simpleton perusal. You won't look like such
    a simpleton that way.

    It would help your credibility if you'd drop this sort of
    comment. I virtually always reflects more on the person making
    such statements than on the one it is directed at. In your case
    that is universally true so far in this discussion.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From mechanic@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 10:45:27 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play
    again today.

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different
    pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in
    the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations
    the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no
    penalty? See the argument?

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to
    minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big
    transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: Aioe.org NNTP Server (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 16:49:43 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 21:53:23 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    Learn to read instead of simpleton perusal. You won't look like such
    a simpleton that way.

    It would help your credibility if you'd drop this sort of
    comment.

    You do not know the idiot. He has done this crap before. You'd be
    best to stay out of my conversations with others. Especially since you
    know nothing about his posting history.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 16:57:51 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave
    us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted
    segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play
    again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary
    school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different
    pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in
    the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations
    the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no
    penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a
    few things to you.

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to
    minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser
    muckanic.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 20:28:14 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave
    us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted
    segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play
    again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary
    school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different
    pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in
    the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations
    the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no
    penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a
    few things to you.

    His logic in that statement is astute and impeccable.

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to
    minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >>transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser
    muckanic.

    But we do in fact call it tip and ring.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 21:02:07 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:28:14 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave >>us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted
    segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play
    again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary
    school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different
    pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in
    the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations
    the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no
    penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a
    few things to you.

    His logic in that statement is astute and impeccable.


    Sure... where else can it take place at?

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to
    minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >>>transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser >>muckanic.

    But we do in fact call it tip and ring.

    Old phone guys, sure.

    Modern IT folk... not so much, if ever.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sat Mar 15 22:22:43 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:28:14 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave >>>us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted >>>>> segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play
    again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary
    school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different >>>>pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in
    the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations
    the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no
    penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a >>>few things to you.

    His logic in that statement is astute and impeccable.


    Sure... where else can it take place at?

    He logically showed that your statement was not possibly correct.

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to >>>>minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >>>>transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser >>>muckanic.

    But we do in fact call it tip and ring.

    Old phone guys, sure.

    Modern IT folk... not so much, if ever.

    Unless they know what they are talking about. And that will
    continue to be true as long as color coding schemes for such
    cables distinguish between the two wires of a pair.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 16 04:55:51 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 14:22:43 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:28:14 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave >>>>us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
    wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted >>>>>> segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play >>>>>again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary >>>>school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different >>>>>pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in >>>>>the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations >>>>>the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no >>>>>penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a >>>>few things to you.

    His logic in that statement is astute and impeccable.


    Sure... where else can it take place at?

    He logically showed that your statement was not possibly correct.

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to >>>>>minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >>>>>transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem
    in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but
    I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser >>>>muckanic.

    But we do in fact call it tip and ring.

    Old phone guys, sure.

    Modern IT folk... not so much, if ever.

    Unless they know what they are talking about. And that will
    continue to be true as long as color coding schemes for such
    cables distinguish between the two wires of a pair.


    2500 on our campus, 80% of which are top engineers. I'd bet that none
    use the phraseology at all. And few of those are even familiar with it.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg (110:110/2002@linuxnet)
  • From Floyd L. Davidson@110:110/2002 to All on Sun Mar 16 05:25:51 2014
    Subject: Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 14:22:43 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
    Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:28:14 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) >>>Gave us:

    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:45:27 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> Gave >>>>>us:

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:02:25 -0700, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno >>>>>>wrote:

    There was discussion about crosstalk at the terminations, where
    crosstalk occurs. What makes you think it would occur in the twisted >>>>>>> segment?

    Morning DLUNU, thanks to your minders for letting you out to play >>>>>>again today.


    Is there any post you make where you are not spouting elementary >>>>>school mentality horseshit?

    Now if you were concerned about different twist rates for different >>>>>>pairs in a cable, the crosstalk you're worried about must occur in >>>>>>the 'twisted segment', no? If it occurred only at the terminations >>>>>>the twist rates of the various pairs could be the same with no >>>>>>penalty? See the argument?

    You really are lost, child. Even after the other person explained a >>>>>few things to you.

    His logic in that statement is astute and impeccable.


    Sure... where else can it take place at?

    He logically showed that your statement was not possibly correct.

    In telephone cables there were rules set out ages ago to try to >>>>>>minimise crosstalk by choosing pairs in appropriate groups in big >>>>>>transmission cables, I was just wondering if it was a real problem >>>>>>in Ethernet cables or even Ethernet patch cords? Seems unlikely but >>>>>>I wondered if there were any standards on this.

    We don't call it "tip and ring". Go back under your rock, loser >>>>>muckanic.

    But we do in fact call it tip and ring.

    Old phone guys, sure.

    Modern IT folk... not so much, if ever.

    Unless they know what they are talking about. And that will
    continue to be true as long as color coding schemes for such
    cables distinguish between the two wires of a pair.

    2500 on our campus, 80% of which are top engineers. I'd bet that none
    use the phraseology at all. And few of those are even familiar with it.

    Do you know as little about your engineers as you do about
    network interface technology?

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux-i386)
    * Origin: __________ (110:110/2002@linuxnet)