• Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced

    From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Tue Apr 30 08:12:00 2024
    I've heard MS-DOS 4.0 was fairly buggy and people avoided using it.. It may still be interesting to look at the source code though.
    [N=>DG]

    IIRC you are correct about 4.0. Also IIRC, I think they soon after released
    a version 4.01 (or maybe 4.10?) that addressed several of the bugs (but
    maybe not all of them).

    Mike

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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to SPECTRE on Tue Apr 30 08:19:00 2024
    Never heard about bugs although I wouldn't be surprised. Story here was it
    had a larger memory footprint without any significant for the time advantage over 3.3
    [S=>N]

    Yeah. I have a vague recollection that maybe there were some things about
    it that were supposed to work better with Windows 3.x but I may be way off
    on that. Since I didn't run Windows I didn't bother upgrading until 5.0
    came out.

    I would be more excited about the 3.3 or 5.0 code being released. Since
    5.0 came with memory management and a few other new things, I suspect that maybe some of that code was reused in more modern projects and won't likely
    be seen.

    Mike

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to MIKE POWELL on Tue Apr 30 16:57:41 2024
    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: MIKE POWELL to NIGHTFOX on Tue Apr 30 2024 08:12 am

    IIRC you are correct about 4.0. Also IIRC, I think they soon after released a version 4.01 (or maybe 4.10?) that addressed several of the bugs (but maybe not all of them).

    I remember a version 4.01. I had thought even that had bugs in it, as I've heard people just avoided MS-DOS 4.x altogether, but maybe I just hadn't heard everything about it.

    I rememebr MS-DOS 5.0 seeming like a fairly important version, and I remember it being fairly popular when it was released.

    Nightfox
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to MIKE POWELL on Thu May 2 09:16:00 2024
    MIKE POWELL wrote to SPECTRE <=-

    Yeah. I have a vague recollection that maybe there were some things
    about it that were supposed to work better with Windows 3.x but I may
    be way off on that. Since I didn't run Windows I didn't bother
    upgrading until 5.0 came out.

    I found a good web site that talked about MSDOS 4.0 - the big selling
    points were hard drives over 32 mb and memory management tools, but the downsides were incompatibility with some controllers and data
    corruption with the then new memory managers. It wasn't marketed well,
    either.

    I didn't have any drives over 32mb until DOS 5.0 came out, don't think I
    ever used DOS 4.

    https://dfarq.homeip.net/why-not-use-ms-dos-4-0/



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  • From Bf2K+@21:3/171 to Nightfox on Wed May 1 21:58:26 2024
    On 30 Apr 24 16:57:41 Nightfox wrote...

    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: MIKE POWELL to NIGHTFOX on Tue Apr 30 2024 08:12 am

    IIRC you are correct about 4.0. Also IIRC, I think they soon after released a version 4.01 (or maybe 4.10?) that addressed several of bugs (but maybe not all of them).

    I remember a version 4.01. I had thought even that had bugs in it, as

    I rememebr MS-DOS 5.0 seeming like a fairly important version, and I re

    Nightfox

    To which Bf2K+ replies...

    Seems to me I remember that the odd versions were better than the even
    numbered versions...

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Bf2K+ on Fri May 3 00:35:06 2024
    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: Bf2K+ to Nightfox on Wed May 01 2024 09:58 pm

    Seems to me I remember that the odd versions were better than the even numbered versions...

    The opposite of Star Trek movies, apparently.
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 09:35:10 2024
    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2K+ on Fri May 03 2024 12:35 am

    Seems to me I remember that the odd versions were better than the even
    numbered versions...

    The opposite of Star Trek movies, apparently.

    I was thinking the same thing.. :) Though I thought MS-DOS 6.x was pretty good (at least 6.20 through 6.22).

    I liked that PC software used to come with manuals, as I enjoyed looking through manuals to learn about the software. One of my fond memories of MS-DOS (and 90s computer stuff in general) was getting a copy of MS-DOS 6 and looking through its manual.. It seemed like they really tried to make the manual easy to read and follow. I remember the back (outer) page of the manual having a car navigating a street going in a bit of a loop..

    Nightfox
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to BF2K+ on Fri May 3 08:25:00 2024
    Seems to me I remember that the odd versions were better than the even
    numbered versions...
    [B=>N]

    It did seem to work out that way... 3.3 and 5.0 seemed more stable than 4.x
    and 6.0. 6.22 was OK, I guess, but in the applications I used I really
    didn't notice much of a difference between it and 5.0.

    I think the only thing 6.22 had that I used that 5.0 didn't was SCANDISK
    (vs. CHKDSK). Even then, I didn't necessarily see that as much of an improvemt, although it did have the graphical representation of where it
    was scanning.

    Mike

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to MIKE POWELL on Fri May 3 14:19:58 2024
    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: MIKE POWELL to BF2K+ on Fri May 03 2024 08:25 am

    It did seem to work out that way... 3.3 and 5.0 seemed more stable than 4.x and 6.0. 6.22 was OK, I guess, but in the applications I used I really didn't notice much of a difference between it and 5.0.

    I think the only thing 6.22 had that I used that 5.0 didn't was SCANDISK (vs. CHKDSK). Even then, I didn't necessarily see that as much of an improvemt, although it did have the graphical representation of where it was scanning.

    One thing I liked that was introduced in MS-DOS 6.0 was the ability to have multiple startup configurations in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. So, for instance, you could have one startup configuration for everyday use and another configuration for an application that requires more memory, more possible open files, etc..

    https://smallvoid.com/article/dos-multiple-configurations.html

    Nightfox
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  • From Roon@21:4/148 to Nightfox on Sat May 4 00:36:17 2024
    Hello Nightfox,

    03 May 24 14:19, you wrote to MIKE POWELL:

    It did seem to work out that way... 3.3 and 5.0 seemed more
    stable than 4.x and 6.0. 6.22 was OK, I guess, but in the
    applications I used I really didn't notice much of a difference
    between it and 5.0.

    I think the only thing 6.22 had that I used that 5.0 didn't was
    SCANDISK (vs. CHKDSK). Even then, I didn't necessarily see that
    as much of an improvemt, although it did have the graphical
    representation of where it was scanning.

    One thing I liked that was introduced in MS-DOS 6.0 was the ability to
    have multiple startup configurations in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT.
    So, for instance, you could have one startup configuration for
    everyday use and another configuration for an application that
    requires more memory, more possible open files, etc..

    https://smallvoid.com/article/dos-multiple-configurations.html

    let me just drop this link here as well: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-starter-pack.html


    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Fri May 3 16:10:00 2024
    I liked that PC software used to come with manuals, as I enjoyed looking through manuals to learn about the software. One of my fond memories of MS-DOS
    (and 90s computer stuff in general) was getting a copy of MS-DOS 6 and looking through its manual.. It seemed like they really tried to make the manual easy to read and follow. I remember the back (outer) page of the manual having a car navigating a street going in a bit of a loop..
    [N=>PF]

    Maybe it was because I was in the business of upgrading PCs back then and
    maybe only saw the "upgrade to 6.x" packages but my memory of the 6.x
    manuals was that they were not near as thick, or detailed, as the 5.0
    manual I had received with my 386dx-40 home system.

    My recollection is that they were better than some of the manuals that came with later software... like Windows XP... but were not going to help
    someone learn DOS commands like the 5.0 book would have.

    Mike

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sat May 4 09:33:00 2024
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I liked that PC software used to come with manuals, as I enjoyed
    looking through manuals to learn about the software. One of my fond memories of MS-DOS (and 90s computer stuff in general) was getting a
    copy of MS-DOS 6 and looking through its manual.. It seemed like they really tried to make the manual easy to read and follow. I remember
    the back (outer) page of the manual having a car navigating a street
    going in a bit of a loop..

    I still have an MS-DOS 5 book somewhere... :)

    Those books were great for learning batch file programming, which took
    DOS to a different level. I had a book called "Supercharging MS-DOS"
    that taught me a lot about batch files - that was right when I was
    running a DOS BBS and mailer. Batch files were king.

    About that time, I got a job at a shop that had a Point-of-Sale system
    with 100 DOS nodes and 50 or so OS/2 nodes. I was amazed at what you
    could do with REXX and OS/2.

    The cash registers would shut down when the store closed and the tills
    were reconciled, connect to a WAN using dialup, perform a handshake,
    send sales figures, receive updated PLU files, and they'd transfer mail.
    There was a session password so people couldn't fake a session, and a
    central nodelist so the stores knew where to call and the primary node
    knew who was calling. It felt a lot like FTN, except it was damn
    expensive.



    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to MIKE POWELL on Sat May 4 09:53:00 2024
    MIKE POWELL wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

    My recollection is that they were better than some of the manuals that came with later software... like Windows XP... but were not going to
    help someone learn DOS commands like the 5.0 book would have.

    If you wanted to really learn DOS, the books "Running MS-DOS" and "Supercharging MS-DOS" by Van Wolverton were amazing references.

    Who remembers 4DOS?



    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Sat May 4 09:52:00 2024
    One thing I liked that was introduced in MS-DOS 6.0 was the ability to have
    multiple startup configurations in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. So, for
    instance, you could have one startup configuration for everyday use and another
    configuration for an application that requires more memory, more possible open
    files, etc..

    https://smallvoid.com/article/dos-multiple-configurations.html
    [N=>MP]

    Yes, I used that on my DV machine. There were times when I would need to
    run something that wouldn't run well under QEMM so I would boot into a environment that only used the DOS memory managers.

    I thought I was able to do that using 5.0, too, but maybe I didn't start
    doing that until I had a 6.22 machine.

    Mike

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat May 4 15:36:36 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sat May 04 2024 09:33 am

    I still have an MS-DOS 5 book somewhere... :)

    Those books were great for learning batch file programming, which took DOS to a different level. I had a book called "Supercharging MS-DOS" that taught me a lot about batch files - that was right when I was running a DOS BBS and mailer. Batch files were king.

    :) I'd sometimes heard that MS-DOS batch language was more limited compared to the command shells of UNIX. I've seen some fairly complicated batch files for Windows though..

    About that time, I got a job at a shop that had a Point-of-Sale system with 100 DOS nodes and 50 or so OS/2 nodes. I was amazed at what you could do with REXX and OS/2.

    I never did use REXX.. I heard it was good though.

    Nightfox
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to MIKE POWELL on Sat May 4 15:38:02 2024
    Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: MIKE POWELL to NIGHTFOX on Sat May 04 2024 09:52 am

    One thing I liked that was introduced in MS-DOS 6.0 was the ability to have multiple startup configurations in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT.

    I thought I was able to do that using 5.0, too, but maybe I didn't start doing that until I had a 6.22 machine.

    I thought that might have been 5.0 too, but I checked online and the internet sez that feature was introduced in 6.0.

    Nightfox
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sun May 5 08:23:00 2024
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    :) I'd sometimes heard that MS-DOS batch language was more limited compared to the command shells of UNIX. I've seen some fairly
    complicated batch files for Windows though..

    You could do it all, it was just a lot more complicated in DOS batch.
    You could probably do some tasks in BASH with a fraction of the lines of commands.


    About that time, I got a job at a shop that had a Point-of-Sale system with 100 DOS nodes and 50 or so OS/2 nodes. I was amazed at what you could do with REXX and OS/2.

    I never did use REXX.. I heard it was good though.

    To my previous point - REXX scripts that did the same as an equivalent
    DOS Batch file were significantly shorter.




    ... Intentions -nobility of -humility of -credibility of
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Sun May 5 08:43:00 2024
    MP> I thought I was able to do that using 5.0, too, but maybe I didn't start MP> doing that until I had a 6.22 machine.

    I thought that might have been 5.0 too, but I checked online and the internet sez that feature was introduced in 6.0.
    [N=>MP]

    I may think it was introduced in 5.0 because I was using multiple
    environments. Come to think of it, I think back in my 5.0 days I was still doing that with batch files, like...

    TOxxx.BAT - prepare the system to run xxx by backing up the current AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, copying the ones for xxx into place, and then reboot the system.

    TODV.BAT - prepare the system to work as normal by backing up, copying the normal files used with Desqview into place, and rebooting.

    So I am sure you (and the internet) are likely correct. ;)

    BTW, 'xxx' was most often, but not always, SimCity 2000. ;)

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  • From Roon@21:4/148 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 6 20:55:46 2024
    Hello poindexter,

    04 May 24 09:53, you wrote to MIKE POWELL:

    Who remembers 4DOS?

    i'm using 4OS2 here daily :)

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 6 13:37:55 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MIKE POWELL on Sat May 04 2024 09:53 am

    Who remembers 4DOS?

    I used to use 4DOS a lot, though I think I had stopped using it with MS-DOS 6. From what I remember, I think the thing I liked most about 4DOS was that you could recall past commands with the up arrow, and I think they added that to COMMAND.COM with MS-DOS 6.

    Nightfox
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  • From mary4@21:1/166 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 12 02:40:11 2024
    I still have an MS-DOS 5 book somewhere... :)
    i have some MS-DOS 3.3 books
    Those books were great for learning batch file programming, which took
    DOS to a different level. I had a book called "Supercharging MS-DOS"
    that taught me a lot about batch files - that was right when I was
    running a DOS BBS and mailer. Batch files were king.

    nice

    nice story btw! <3

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... Help! I can't find the "ANY" key.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From mary4@21:1/166 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 12 02:41:11 2024
    Who remembers 4DOS?

    I USE 4DOS 8.00! :DD i use it so much it's CRAZY! lol

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From mary4@21:1/166 to Nightfox on Sun May 12 02:57:24 2024
    :) I'd sometimes heard that MS-DOS batch language was more limited compared to the command shells of UNIX. I've seen some fairly
    complicated batch files for Windows though..

    FreeDOS batch file system seems a bit more complex than MS-DOS's

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... BREAKFAST.COM Halted... Cereal port not responding.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From mary4@21:1/166 to MIKE POWELL on Sun May 12 03:06:34 2024
    I may think it was introduced in 5.0 because I was using multiple environments. Come to think of it, I think back in my 5.0 days I was still doing that with batch files, like...

    TOxxx.BAT - prepare the system to run xxx by backing up the current AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, copying the ones for xxx into place, and
    then reboot the system.

    TODV.BAT - prepare the system to work as normal by backing up, copying
    the normal files used with Desqview into place, and rebooting.

    So I am sure you (and the internet) are likely correct. ;)

    BTW, 'xxx' was most often, but not always, SimCity 2000. ;)

    i made a FreeDOS 1.x updater in freedos batch it's pretty neat! :D

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From mary4@21:1/166 to Nightfox on Sun May 12 03:25:11 2024
    I used to use 4DOS a lot, though I think I had stopped using it with MS-DOS 6. From what I remember, I think the thing I liked most about
    4DOS was that you could recall past commands with the up arrow, and I think they added that to COMMAND.COM with MS-DOS 6.

    ms-dos 6 command.com dose not do that. FreeDOS's command.com DOSE do that! and it works with MS-DOS! :D

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... Help! I can't find the "ANY" key.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to mary4 on Sat May 11 19:15:04 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: mary4 to Nightfox on Sun May 12 2024 03:25 am

    I used to use 4DOS a lot, though I think I had stopped using it with
    MS-DOS 6. From what I remember, I think the thing I liked most about 4DOS
    was that you could recall past commands with the up arrow, and I think
    they added that to COMMAND.COM with MS-DOS 6.

    ms-dos 6 command.com dose not do that. FreeDOS's command.com DOSE do that! and it works with MS-DOS! :D

    I definitely never used FreeDOS's command.com with MS-DOS. When I was using MS-DOS, in the early-mid 90s, I don't think FreeDOS existed yet. Now that I recall, I think it was a TSR called DOSKEY that MS-DOS came with that allowed recalling past commands with the up arrow.

    Nightfox
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  • From mary4@21:1/166 to Nightfox on Sun May 12 22:39:50 2024
    I definitely never used FreeDOS's command.com with MS-DOS. When I was using MS-DOS, in the early-mid 90s, I don't think FreeDOS existed yet. Now that I recall, I think it was a TSR called DOSKEY that MS-DOS came with that allowed recalling past commands with the up arrow.


    oh nice! :D i did not know this!

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to mary4 on Tue May 14 04:08:00 2024
    4DOS was that you could recall past commands with the up arrow, and I think they added that to COMMAND.COM with MS-DOS 6.

    ms-dos 6 command.com dose not do that. FreeDOS's command.com DOSE do that! and it works with MS-DOS! :D

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last command...


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
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  • From Bob Worm@21:1/205 to Spectre on Mon May 13 20:30:52 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: Spectre to mary4 on Tue May 14 2024 04:08:00

    Hi, Spectre.

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last command...

    Yeah, and F1 to do it letter by letter if I remember correctly.

    BobW
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Spectre on Mon May 13 13:40:24 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: Spectre to mary4 on Tue May 14 2024 04:08 am

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last command...

    MS-DOS included the utility DOSKEY, which was a TSR that allowed you to press the up arrow key to recall previous commands.

    Nightfox
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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Nightfox on Tue May 14 11:43:00 2024
    MS-DOS included the utility DOSKEY, which was a TSR that allowed you to press the up arrow key to recall previous commands.

    Can't say I ever used it. Memory was at an absolute premium by the time network drivers loaded.

    LSL.com - Link Support Layer
    3c503.com - Card driver
    IPXODI.com - IPX Driver
    CLIENT/SEVER.com

    Client and Server were 20/40k each... there was also a dedicate off hand to optimise server performance. Can't recall size of the rest, none of them
    liked to load high either.

    Add a FOSSIL, and off hand I can't remember what else, in some instances CD drivers and free low memory tended to be in the mid 500k...

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
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    * Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/196 to Spectre on Tue May 14 11:36:44 2024
    Hi spec,

    On Tuesday May 14 2024, Spectre said to mary4:

    4DOS was that you could recall past commands with the up arrow,
    think they added that to COMMAND.COM with MS-DOS 6.

    ms-dos 6 command.com dose not do that. FreeDOS's command.com DOSE do
    that! and it works with MS-DOS! :D

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last
    command...

    That's all the F3 key does, the "last" command... The other tools would let
    you go back further in the history tree.

    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen

    Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

    --- Zeus BBS 1.5
    * Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Vorlon on Tue May 14 10:01:04 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos 4.0 Open-Sourced
    By: Vorlon to Spectre on Tue May 14 2024 11:36 am

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last command...

    That's all the F3 key does, the "last" command... The other tools would let you go back further in the history tree.

    All this time, and I never knew F3 recalled the last comand in DOS.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/196 to Nightfox on Wed May 15 11:06:22 2024
    Hi Nightfox,

    On Tuesday May 14 2024, Nightfox said to Vorlon:

    I only recall DOS having I think it was F3 for a repeat of last
    command...

    That's all the F3 key does, the "last" command... The other tools
    would let you go back further in the history tree.

    All this time, and I never knew F3 recalled the last comand in DOS.

    Hehe.. Still learning stuff even after all this time... #-)

    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen

    Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

    --- Zeus BBS 1.5
    * Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)
  • From mary4@21:1/166 to Nightfox on Fri Jun 21 02:55:26 2024
    All this time, and I never knew F3 recalled the last comand in DOS.

    yes its been a feature since i dont know? 3? 2? maybye version 1?

    --mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

    ... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)