• Re: Looking For Bbs Clien

    From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to KIRKSPRAGG on Sun Apr 28 15:25:00 2024
    Regarding you suggetsion to use OS/2 & VMODEM, is this likely going to work
    with early verions of OS/2 (i.e. the ones that will run on a 286) or am I
    would I need to use 386+ class machine & a later version of OS/2.
    [K=>MP]

    That I am not sure of. My only experience with OS/2 is with a 386 or
    better. Seems to me that some sysops were using VMODEM long before OS/2
    Warp was released, though.

    Hopefully someone else here will have a better answer. That said, it
    sounds like you found a version of Procomm that runs well with Windows.
    Procomm (for DOS) was another program I used a lot early in my days of
    bbsing.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link K 4-27-24 21:57
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    BgNet 1.012 moe's tavern * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Mike Powell on Sun Apr 28 21:07:03 2024
    That I am not sure of. My only experience with OS/2 is with a 386 or better. Seems to me that some sysops were using VMODEM long before OS/2 Warp was released, though.

    You couldn't as you needed the "conenct" package from OS/2 Warp v3 Connect to use it via telnet. As a virtual com port, I'm not sure if Ray had any use for it before hand.

    ... If they're waving, where's the rest of their fingers?

    --- Renegade v1.35/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Abbub@21:2/145 to Exodus on Sun Apr 28 19:54:21 2024
    *** Quoting Exodus to Mike Powell dated 04-28-24 ***
    You couldn't as you needed the "conenct" package from OS/2 Warp v3
    Connect to
    use it via telnet. As a virtual com port, I'm not sure if Ray had any
    use for

    There was a TCP/IP package for OS/2 2.x, too. It wasn't included out of the box, but it was something IBM had.

    ---
    * Origin: Telnet: bbs.WalledCTTY.com:1989 - Fort Collins, CO USA (21:2/145)
  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to MIKE POWELL on Sun Apr 28 21:18:24 2024
    Hopefully someone else here will have a better answer. That said, it sounds like you found a version of Procomm that runs well with Windows. Procomm (for DOS) was another program I used a lot early in my days of bbsing.

    Yes procomm for windows has become my current preferred client, its a bit slow on a 286 but is usable & the ability to copy paste stuff into a text editor is just too handy to be without.

    I briefly tired procomm for dos but like most terminal clients it does not do telnet, com port/modem only as far as I could tell from my brief experiments.

    ... To hell with user friendly. Will it keep beer cold? –M. Nellis

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to kirkspragg on Mon Apr 29 06:19:00 2024
    kirkspragg wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

    I briefly tired procomm for dos but like most terminal clients it does
    not do telnet, com port/modem only as far as I could tell from my brief experiments.

    I thought there was a DOS FOSSIL that talked TCP/IP? Procomm Plus does
    support FOSSIL and int14, two means of redirecting modem ports.



    ... In England, Baseball is known as American Cricket.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Roon@21:4/148 to MIKE POWELL on Mon Apr 29 20:29:41 2024
    Hello MIKE,

    28 Apr 24 15:25, you wrote to KIRKSPRAGG:

    Regarding you suggetsion to use OS/2 & VMODEM, is this likely going
    to work
    with early verions of OS/2 (i.e. the ones that will run on a 286) or
    am I
    would I need to use 386+ class machine & a later version of OS/2.
    [K=>> MP]

    That I am not sure of. My only experience with OS/2 is with a 386 or better. Seems to me that some sysops were using VMODEM long before
    OS/2 Warp was released, though.

    Hopefully someone else here will have a better answer.

    i've started my os/2 trip with a 486dx2-80 and os/2 warp 3. dunno what was before.

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... Uptime: 2d 0h 12m 42s
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)
  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 29 12:56:34 2024
    I thought there was a DOS FOSSIL that talked TCP/IP? Procomm Plus does support FOSSIL and int14, two means of redirecting modem ports.

    Does it? I'm using procomm plus v2 & I can't find any obvious settings to use anything other than hardware COM ports but I may have missed something. Maybe I need to look for later versions.

    Procomm plus v2 for windows (which I am currently using) does support a number of different communication methods, I think FOSSIL & int14 are among them.

    Regarding int14, I don't know much about that, to be honest this is all pretty new to me, where would I look for int14 modem redirection drivers??

    ... Oxymoron: exact estimate

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Apr 30 10:49:00 2024
    I thought there was a DOS FOSSIL that talked TCP/IP? Procomm Plus does support FOSSIL and int14, two means of redirecting modem ports.

    RLFOSSIL... its wandered through discussion here before, I use it at TLP. It can be a little persnickety the way it wants to work. But it does do the job well.

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to KIRKSPRAGG on Wed May 1 08:10:00 2024
    AK> On the telnet side, as someone else mentioned, using an RS232 WiFi modem

    I will look into this, though I'd be looking for something that can use
    ethernet instead of wifi. This 'ol house's lathe and plaster walls are
    anathema to wifi, I supposed I could setup an extra wifi access point if
    required but I'd really prefer not to if possible.
    [K=>A]

    If you find one that uses ethernet instead of WiFi, let us know.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link K 4-30-24 22:22
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  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to MIKE POWELL on Wed May 1 23:59:45 2024
    If you find one that uses ethernet instead of WiFi, let us know.

    Lantronix UDS100 & UDS10 devices have been recommended, I have just bought a couple of UDS10's from ebay so hopefully I'll be able to test them soonish?

    Due to distance, they might take a few weeks to arrive though.

    ... "Troi ! Ryker! DISENGAGE !" -- Picard

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu May 2 08:18:00 2024
    8250 UART - bad
    16450 UART - OK for some speeds and single-tasking
    16550 and higher - good.
    [PF=>K]

    I remember getting my first 16550 and being so happy that I could finally
    use my new 14.4k modem properly. ;)

    I do wonder now what UART these USB-to-Serial cables are using (or
    emulating). It must be something smaller than the original chipsets.
    Based on experience, I strongly suspect they are in the OK to bad category, unfortunately.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link PF 5-01-24 6:49
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to KIRKSPRAGG on Thu May 2 08:20:00 2024
    Lantronix UDS100 & UDS10 devices have been recommended, I have just bought a couple of UDS10's from ebay so hopefully I'll be able to test them soonish? [K=>MP]

    Good deal. Keep us posted.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link K 5-01-24 23:59
    ---
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    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to MIKE POWELL on Thu May 2 15:48:03 2024
    Re: Re: Looking For Bbs Clien
    By: MIKE POWELL to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2024 08:18 am

    I remember getting my first 16550 and being so happy that I could finally use my new 14.4k modem properly. ;)

    I do wonder now what UART these USB-to-Serial cables are using (or emulating). It must be something smaller than the original chipsets. Based on experience, I strongly suspect they are in the OK to bad category, unfortunately.

    I've wondered the same thing. But I've had the thought that technology has advanced a bit since then, and hopefully they'd be able to fit a good enough UART into the space available for USB-to-serial cables. Unless the manufacturer is being really cheap, I'd see no reason not to use a 16550 (or equivalent/better) in those USB-to-serial cables.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Nightfox on Thu May 2 20:09:22 2024
    I've wondered the same thing. But I've had the thought
    that technology has advanced a bit since then, and
    hopefully they'd be able to fit a good enough UART into
    the space available for USB-to-serial cables. Unless
    the manufacturer is being really cheap, I'd see no
    reason not to use a 16550 (or equivalent/better) in
    those USB-to-serial cables.

    The 16550 has a 16 byte buffer. An FTDI FT232R USB-to-serial IC has a 128 byte receive buffer. So in some ways, the USB-to-serial cables are more capable than 16550 UARTs. There are other USB-to-serial ICs, but FTDI is kind of the 'gold standard' and others I've looked at at similar specs.

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is some latency between the data being received by the USB-to-serial cable and it being received by the software on the PC itself due to the USB protocol. The throughput is great, but in some cases the latency can be a problem. Usually for modem use it's fine, but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added latency of USB.


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From Roon@21:4/148 to AKAcastor on Fri May 3 07:30:25 2024
    Hello AKAcastor,

    02 May 24 20:09, you wrote to Nightfox:

    I've wondered the same thing. But I've had the thought
    that technology has advanced a bit since then, and
    hopefully they'd be able to fit a good enough UART into
    the space available for USB-to-serial cables. Unless
    the manufacturer is being really cheap, I'd see no
    reason not to use a 16550 (or equivalent/better) in
    those USB-to-serial cables.

    The 16550 has a 16 byte buffer. An FTDI FT232R USB-to-serial IC has a
    128 byte receive buffer. So in some ways, the USB-to-serial cables
    are more capable than 16550 UARTs. There are other USB-to-serial ICs,
    but FTDI is kind of the 'gold standard' and others I've looked at at similar specs.

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of
    being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is some latency between the data being received by the USB-to-serial cable and
    it being received by the software on the PC itself due to the USB
    protocol. The throughput is great, but in some cases the latency can
    be a problem. Usually for modem use it's fine, but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added latency of USB.

    and one more downside is that they need usb2, they don't work in usb3 ports :( /i've learned it in the hard way :)/

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... Uptime: 5d 11h 6m 53s
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Roon on Thu May 2 23:29:20 2024
    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of
    being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is some latency between the data being received by the USB-to-serial cable and
    it being received by the software on the PC itself due to the USB
    protocol. The throughput is great, but in some cases the latency can
    be a problem. Usually for modem use it's fine, but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added latency of USB.

    and one more downside is that they need usb2, they don't
    work in usb3 ports :(
    /i've learned it in the hard way :)/

    I thought USB3 was supposed to be backward compatible, I would say I am surprised it's a problem but then again USB can throw some weird shit at you sometimes.

    Speaking of weird USB stuff - I have a USB to ISA interface from ARS Technologies, it's an interesting device but definitely not plug n play.http://arstech.com/install/ecom-prodshow/usb2isax3.html


    Chris/akacastor

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to MIKE POWELL on Fri May 3 00:26:07 2024
    Re: Re: Looking For Bbs Clien
    By: MIKE POWELL to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2024 08:18 am

    I do wonder now what UART these USB-to-Serial cables are using (or emulating). It must be something smaller than the original chipsets. Based on experience, I strongly suspect they are in the OK to bad category, unfortunately.

    I did some googling around - one line uses a ft232rq chip, which has a 256 byte receive and 128 byte transmit buffer. That compares well to the 16550, which I think had 16 byte buffers. The new cables should be able to keep up with 115.2K serial connections.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Roon@21:4/148 to AKAcastor on Fri May 3 16:44:46 2024
    Hello AKAcastor,

    02 May 24 23:29, you wrote to me:

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of
    being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is
    some latency between the data being received by the USB-to-serial
    cable and it being received by the software on the PC itself due
    to the USB protocol. The throughput is great, but in some cases
    the latency can be a problem. Usually for modem use it's fine,
    but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added
    latency of USB.

    and one more downside is that they need usb2, they don't
    work in usb3 ports :(
    /i've learned it in the hard way :)/

    I thought USB3 was supposed to be backward compatible, I would say I
    am surprised it's a problem but then again USB can throw some weird
    shit at you sometimes.

    yeah this was a suprise for me as well, i tried different computers, and found this info on the net later...

    Speaking of weird USB stuff - I have a USB to ISA interface from ARS Technologies, it's an interesting device but definitely not plug n play.http://arstech.com/install/ecom-prodshow/usb2isax3.html

    wow. tehre is a solution 4 everything :)

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... Uptime: 5d 20h 22m 0s
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to AKAcastor on Fri May 3 09:23:36 2024
    Re: Re: Looking For Bbs Clien
    By: AKAcastor to Nightfox on Thu May 02 2024 08:09 pm

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is some latency between the data being received by the USB-to-serial cable and it being received by the software on the PC itself due to the USB protocol. The throughput is great, but in some cases the latency can be a problem. Usually for modem use it's fine, but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added latency of USB.

    I've wondered about latency sometimes and have wondered why there often isn't something directly connected to the bus for things like serial ports & such these days. I often see things like USB MIDI adapters, USB headsets & microphones, and latency probably does play a role in those, but it seems those are good enough for many situations..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Roon on Fri May 3 09:31:26 2024
    Re: Looking For Bbs Clien
    By: Roon to AKAcastor on Fri May 03 2024 07:30 am

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead of being
    connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there is some latency

    and one more downside is that they need usb2, they don't work in usb3 ports :( /i've learned it in the hard way :)/

    Really? I thought USB3 was supposed to be backwards-compatible. I'm pretty sure I've plugged USB2 devices into USB3 ports and I thought they worked.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Nightfox on Fri May 3 12:39:29 2024
    On 03 May 2024, Nightfox said the following...

    I've wondered about latency sometimes and have wondered why there often isn't something directly connected to the bus for things like serial
    ports & such these days. I often see things like USB MIDI adapters, USB headsets & microphones, and latency probably does play a role in those, but it seems those are good enough for many situations..

    can't really speak for every manufacturer but my ASUS X570 motherboard still has a serial port on it. just need a breakout cable and a slot cover with the serial plug itself to get out to the outside of the case.. my ham radio is connected to mine. there are probably others brands that have this. and if you really need it there are 2 port pci express serial cards (or more!) on amazon.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to fusion on Fri May 3 11:15:05 2024
    Re: Re: Looking For Bbs Clien
    By: fusion to Nightfox on Fri May 03 2024 12:39 pm

    can't really speak for every manufacturer but my ASUS X570 motherboard still has a serial port on it. just need a breakout cable and a slot cover with the serial plug itself to get out to the outside of the case.. my ham radio is connected to mine. there are probably others brands that have this. and if you really need it there are 2 port pci express serial cards (or more!) on amazon.

    The motherboard in my main PC has a header for a serial port on it. A couple years ago, I bought a breakout cable so that I now have a serial port on the back of the PC. I'm not using it now, but I remember it looked like that serial port on the motherboard is connected to the USB bus..

    My secondary PC (which my BBS runs on) is a Dell workstation that has a serial port on it, and it appears to be an actual serial port connected to the bus (it comes up in linux as a /dev/tty device rather than a USB device). I have a modem connected to it with a phone line so people can dial into my BBS if they want. (The phone number is 1-971-910-4722)

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Nightfox on Fri May 3 12:05:34 2024
    Usually for modem use it's fine, but some other serial devices can be thrown off by the added latency of USB.

    I've wondered about latency sometimes and have wondered
    why there often isn't something directly connected to
    the bus for things like serial ports & such these days.
    I often see things like USB MIDI adapters, USB headsets
    & microphones, and latency probably does play a role in
    those, but it seems those are good enough for many situations..

    It is still possible - you can get PCIe serial (and parallel) interfaces (if you have an available PCIe slot). It does seem fairly niche these days though.

    Most of the USB latency issues seem to be solvable if the interface is smart enough to understand the protocol used, and I think there are USB protocol options to reduce latency as well. Whether particular devices implement the best solution does seem to be a guessing game.

    Another experiment I tried was using a PCIe serial card in a Thunderbolt PCIe enclosure. PCIe slots in the enclosure are connected to the system via Thunderbolt (USB-C connector) - I don't know the details of how PCIe-over-Thunderbolt works, but it is very low latency. I did have success using the serial card in the Thunderbolt PCIe enclosure, it's an expensive solution to a simple problem though. I used this kind of Thunderbolt PCIe enclosure:
    https://www.startech.com/en-ca/usb-hubs/tb31pciex16


    Chris/akacastor

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From Roon@21:4/148 to Nightfox on Fri May 3 21:28:31 2024
    Hello Nightfox,

    03 May 24 09:31, you wrote to me:

    A downside to USB-to-serial cables is that they use USB instead
    of being connected directly to the bus like a 16550 is. So there
    is some latency

    and one more downside is that they need usb2, they don't work in
    usb3 ports :( /i've learned it in the hard way :)/

    Really? I thought USB3 was supposed to be backwards-compatible. I'm pretty sure I've plugged USB2 devices into USB3 ports and I thought
    they worked.

    sure no problem. except serial-to-usbs :)

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... Uptime: 6d 0h 46m 18s
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Fri May 3 08:22:00 2024
    I've wondered the same thing. But I've had the thought that technology has
    advanced a bit since then, and hopefully they'd be able to fit a good enough UART into the space available for USB-to-serial cables. Unless the
    manufacturer is being really cheap, I'd see no reason not to use a 16550 (or equivalent/better) in those USB-to-serial cables.
    [N=>MP]

    I hope so, too, and don't see any reasons not to. That said, I don't think they work as well as the old 16550 serial cards did. ;)

    It could be other factors that have given me that impression, and not the cables themselves.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link N 5-02-24 15:48
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  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Nightfox on Fri May 3 22:54:27 2024
    On 03 May 2024, Nightfox said the following...

    can't really speak for every manufacturer but my ASUS X570 motherboar still has a serial port on it. just need a breakout cable and a slot

    port on the back of the PC. I'm not using it now, but I remember it looked like that serial port on the motherboard is connected to the USB bus..

    yeah, mine is specifically a real serial port, not a USB one bodged onto the motherboard.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to AKAcastor on Fri May 3 21:34:32 2024
    It is still possible - you can get PCIe serial (and parallel) interfaces (if you have an available PCIe slot). It does seem fairly niche these days though.

    I've got a PCIe parallel port card in my main Win 10 PC. With a bit of fiddling it was possible to configure Dosbox-X to use the parallel port directly & map it to dos LPT1.

    Has been very useful that. Can run fastlynx/Laplink on my main PC & have my main PCs large hard drive mounted in & then use fastlynx to copy stuff from it to my retro PCs via a parallel port laplink cable.

    Its a great setup for bootstrapping a new DOS install/recovering from a serious screw up...

    ... I'm in a ACSII state of mind !

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Kirkspragg on Fri May 3 22:53:02 2024
    I've got a PCIe parallel port card in my main Win 10 PC.
    With a bit of fiddling it was possible to configure
    Dosbox-X to use the parallel port directly & map it to
    dos LPT1.
    Has been very useful that. Can run fastlynx/Laplink on
    my main PC & have my main PCs large hard drive mounted
    in & then use fastlynx to copy stuff from it to my retro
    PCs via a parallel port laplink cable.

    That's a great way to transfer files to retro PCs! What kind of speed do you get using fastlynx? I used Laplink but only a little bit and it's been decades, so I don't really recall the speed of it either. Your setup sounds great for pulling the files you want from your collection to your retro PC, when you want the files.


    Chris/akacastor

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to AKAcastor on Sat May 4 02:38:23 2024
    That's a great way to transfer files to retro PCs! What kind of speed
    do you get using fastlynx? I used Laplink but only a little bit and
    it's been decades, so I don't really recall the speed of it either.
    Your setup sounds great for pulling the files you want from your collection to your retro PC, when you want the files.

    I get 40-50 kB/s (kilobytes per sec) with fastlynx. I no longer use laplink due to consistent issues I've had with stability. For short transfers its fine, but anything that needs more that 20-30 minutes is almost guaranteed to either stall or crash outright - sometimes requiring a full power off and on cycle (at both ends) to get everything up and running again, somehow when it breaks it can really mess with your parallel/com ports.

    If you interested I can give you more detailed info on how to set this up with dosbox-x on windows. Main things to do are to ensure you get your PCI-E parallel port's IO addresses from the device manager (these are unlikely to be the standard DOS LPT1/2 IO addresses) and use those when configuring the the LTP pass-through with Dosbox-x.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sat May 4 09:49:00 2024
    Nightfox wrote to Roon <=-

    Really? I thought USB3 was supposed to be backwards-compatible. I'm pretty sure I've plugged USB2 devices into USB3 ports and I thought
    they worked.

    They work - unless they don't. Seems like often a weird USB problem is
    related to plugging a USB 2 stick into a USB 3 port.

    It's nothing like the old USB 1.1 days, circa Windows 98/2000. Man, that
    was a mess...



    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to fusion on Sat May 4 09:54:00 2024
    fusion wrote to Nightfox <=-

    yeah, mine is specifically a real serial port, not a USB one bodged
    onto the motherboard.

    50 quatloos for using "bodged" in context.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to AKAcastor on Sat May 4 09:59:00 2024
    AKAcastor wrote to Kirkspragg <=-

    That's a great way to transfer files to retro PCs! What kind of speed
    do you get using fastlynx? I used Laplink but only a little bit and
    it's been decades, so I don't really recall the speed of it either.
    Your setup sounds great for pulling the files you want from your collection to your retro PC, when you want the files.

    Computer hobbyists are notorious for hoarding cables. I know I've gone
    through my phases.

    When I moved the last time, I did a reckoning of my cable stash, and
    tossed parallel cables, old SCSI-1 cables and terminators, IDE cables,
    weird PS/2 to serial dongles, and even an old joystick with that weird connector.

    The one cable I would NOT part with? A Laplink DB9 to DB9 null modem
    cable. I'm sure someday I'll need it. :)

    I used Laplink with an HP Omnibook 300, a weird little laptop with a
    reflective screen, Windows 3.1 in ROM, and insane battery life. It could
    run on AA batteries in a pinch. It came with the cable and laplink
    software to get files to/from the system out of the box, but I ended up
    finding an ethernet card that worked in it.

    I think of all of the weird hardware I had at work that, if I'd taken it
    with me, work wouldn't have missed it one bit - the Omnibook and an IBM
    Workpad Z50 stand out. I'm sure they sat in a storage room until they
    were e-wasted after I left.



    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Kirkspragg on Sat May 4 17:28:02 2024
    I get 40-50 kB/s (kilobytes per sec) with fastlynx. I no
    longer use laplink due to consistent issues I've had
    with stability. For short transfers its fine, but
    anything that needs more that 20-30 minutes is almost
    guaranteed to either stall or crash outright - sometimes
    requiring a full power off and on cycle (at both ends)
    to get everything up and running again, somehow when it
    breaks it can really mess with your parallel/com ports.

    This is great information that seems like it could save me hours of frustration down the road! :) Crashing after 20-30 minutes is the worst.

    If you interested I can give you more detailed info on
    how to set this up with dosbox-x on windows. Main things
    to do are to ensure you get your PCI-E parallel port's
    IO addresses from the device manager (these are unlikely
    to be the standard DOS LPT1/2 IO addresses) and use
    those when configuring the the LTP pass-through with Dosbox-x.

    I am not ready at the moment to test the setup, I am familiar enough with dosbox to get the gist of it, but I think it would be great to have detailed information about this as it's such a good way to pull the files you want to use onto your retro PC and your experience here would be valuable.


    Chris/akacastor

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Poindexter Fortran on Sat May 4 17:34:50 2024
    Computer hobbyists are notorious for hoarding cables. I know I've gone through my phases.

    Do NOT even hint at taking away my cables!!! :)

    When I moved the last time, I did a reckoning of my cable stash, and tossed parallel cables, old SCSI-1 cables and terminators, IDE cables, weird PS/2 to serial dongles, and even an old joystick with that weird connector.

    But what if you need another SCSI-1 cable? What then??

    The one cable I would NOT part with? A Laplink DB9 to DB9 null modem cable. I'm sure someday I'll need it. :)

    I actually bought some nullmodem adapters within the past few months, to be sure I always have an extra on hand. They're obsolete right up until you need one!

    I used Laplink with an HP Omnibook 300, a weird little laptop with a reflective screen, Windows 3.1 in ROM, and insane battery life. It could run on AA batteries in a pinch.

    That Omnibook 300 sounds like a very neat machine, I have never seen one, it sounds pretty cool. Based on the laplink cable I guess it had a proper serial port, would be a great little portable terminal.


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From kirkspragg@21:2/150 to AKAcastor on Sat May 4 19:14:52 2024
    I am not ready at the moment to test the setup, I am familiar enough with dosbox to get the gist of it, but I think it would be great to have detailed information about this as it's such a good way to pull the
    files you want to use onto your retro PC and your experience here would
    be valuable.

    I can't given details for how to get this working on linux as I have only tried this on windows.

    1 - Download and install the latest Dosbox-x (dosbox-x.com), use the installer not the potable version as it may be missing an the dlls required to access a physical printer port.

    2 - Install you PCI-e parallel port card, I had issues with this as I did not follow the instructions that came with the card & that made things more difficult. If the instructions say to install the drivers BEFORE physically
    installing the card, DO THAT or you may find yourself in with a complete
    mess windows driver wise.

    3 - In windows device manager find your printer port, it should be in the Ports (COM & LPT) section of the device manager.

    4 - Open the printer port's device entry from the device manager & go to the resources tab. Look for I/O ranges in the "Settings" box & note them down.

    5 - One of the IO ranges will be the base port and the other the ECP port. You'll have to discover which is which via trial and error I am afraid....

    6 - Setup dosbox-x to use your physical hardware. This is pretty simple, just add something like the following to the [parallel] section of your dosbox config file, replacing IO addresses D010 & D000 with what you found in step 4:

    parallel1 = realpt realbase:D010 ecpbase:D000


    Note that to figure out which address is the base port it's easier to set this up without setting ecpbase (just leave it out) & just try both IO
    addresses out with fastlynx/laplink running in dosbox and on a 'real' computer with ISA printer port. Thats how I figured it out.


    This might work with other software, however I am pretty sure that dosbox-x doesn't pass through hardware interrupt requests thus anything relying on this won't work or may be very slow - I believe this is an issue for PLIP.

    ... Never test for an error you don't know how to handle.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to AKAcastor on Sun May 5 08:26:00 2024
    AKAcastor wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    When I moved the last time, I did a reckoning of my cable stash, and tossed parallel cables, old SCSI-1 cables and terminators, IDE cables, weird PS/2 to serial dongles, and even an old joystick with that weird connector.

    But what if you need another SCSI-1 cable? What then??

    I'd buy a new one. I have the duality of hoarding cable and not being
    able to find them. I'd find myself spending hours looking for a cable
    that I could buy a replacement online in 5 minutes. Buying the
    replacement then has the benefit of meaning I'd find the original as
    soon as I hit "buy".

    That's OK, Two is One, One is None. Always have a backup. :)

    That Omnibook 300 sounds like a very neat machine, I have never seen
    one, it sounds pretty cool. Based on the laplink cable I guess it had
    a proper serial port, would be a great little portable terminal.

    That was my excuse - I needed something with long battery life that I
    could plug into the cisco console port at my colo at the time.




    ... Is it finished?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Kirkspragg on Sun May 5 10:00:38 2024
    I can't given details for how to get this working on
    linux as I have only tried this on windows.

    1 - Download and install the latest Dosbox-x (dosbox-
    x.com), use the installer not the potable version as it
    may be missing an the dlls required to access a physical
    printer port.

    Thanks for the instructions for parallel port use in DOSBox-X! Definitely will save some time with that as a reference.

    This might work with other software, however I am pretty sure that dosbox-x doesn't pass through hardware interrupt requests thus
    anything relying on this won't work or may be very slow -
    I believe this is an issue for PLIP.

    I don't see any references to interrupt handling in the directlpt.cpp file in DOSBox-X source, I think you're right that it doens't pass through hardware interrupt requests. I wonder how complicated it would be to implement.


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun May 5 10:10:38 2024
    But what if you need another SCSI-1 cable? What then??

    I'd buy a new one.

    Your words are so much more sane than what comes out of my hoarder brain! :)

    I have the duality of hoarding cable and not being
    able to find them. I'd find myself spending hours looking for a cable
    that I could buy a replacement online in 5 minutes. Buying the
    replacement then has the benefit of meaning I'd find the original as
    soon as I hit "buy".

    This is 100% relatable. I still haven't given up my cable hoard, but I have absolutely bought cables that already existed in my collection.

    I find it frustrating that the cost of retro computer parts has gone up, but any time I do the math on "I should have kept it around since the 1980s!" the cost of storing things is way higher than the cost to buy again, even at current prices. (I do not intend to stop hoarding just yet though haha)


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to SPECTRE on Sun May 5 08:48:00 2024
    The only other addendum I'd add, they're pretty rare but the original 16550s are no better than 16450s. There's some kind of bug on the chip stopping the use of the FIFOs. 16550a an and afn I think they are, are the go to chips. [S=>K]

    I forgot all about that. You are right, the 16550A was something I held
    out for back in the day.

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link S 5-05-24 11:59
    ---
    BgNet 1.012 moe's tavern * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 6 11:02:00 2024
    50 quatloos for using "bodged" in context.

    Directly from Slithercult Stronghold...


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to AKAcastor on Mon May 6 11:19:00 2024
    I actually bought some nullmodem adapters within the past few months, to be sure I always have an extra on hand. They're obsolete right up until you need one!

    I have a couple of the boxy looking ones, but I tend to build them from scratch. Not all serial ports are equal, especially if you're going back
    past early PC... some have weirdness like needing to route DTR/DSR to RTS/CTS or just tieing them high.

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)
  • From dingo@21:1/121 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 6 08:52:04 2024

    On Sunday, May 5th poindexter FORTRAN muttered...
    I'd buy a new one. I have the duality of hoarding cable and not being able to find them. I'd find myself spending hours looking for a cable that I could buy a replacement online in 5 minutes.

    I worked with embedded SE and EE's at an electric airplane company and I learned a very useful piece of equipment to organize cables, search for "Test Lead Rack Holder". These are usually used to hold oscilloscope probes, bench power supply leads, etc., but they come in different pitch sizes and do a great job of holding everything else (usb, serial, audio, etc).

    You just screw them high up on the wall and all your cables can snugly fit. I have two racks and they're already completely full. But I can find a cable I need in mere seconds, compared to the minutes of digging through boxes and untangling them only to find the other end of the cable is a mismatch etc.

    photo: https://www.jeffquast.com/IMG_7458.jpg



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 18.18.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)