• Re: Ms-Dos And Win 3.11 A

    From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to SIRRONMIT on Thu Feb 1 08:55:00 2024
    Man, that was what my BBS ran on way back in the 90s :(
    I should move and apply, LOL!
    [S=>W]

    I wonder if it is a job you can do from remote! :D

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link S 1-31-24 13:38
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to FUSION on Thu Feb 1 09:02:00 2024
    i was helping a restaurant keep an older dos point of sale software going..
    every few years i'd replace some computer, tweak the hardware a bit, etc..
    they didn't want to pay that anymore. they wanted to be fancy.
    [F=>O]

    I remember back in the 1990's I was running Desqview. My sister was the assistant manager at a local chain restaurant. Somehow we got to talking computers one day and the subject of DV came up. Turns out they were using
    DV in the restaurant! They were using a application called Squirrel which, IIRC, was where they entered orders, did inventory, etc., and it ran under
    DV.

    Since most places I had worked at/visted as a consultant were running
    either Windows 3.11 or WP Office (or, in one case, OS/2), I was surprised
    to hear that.

    Come to think of it, that might have been what brought it up in
    conversation. I had been trying to convince my boss that the solution was
    not always WfWg and that DV could be more useful in some situations. He
    was a Microsoft simp so he didn't listen to much else. ;)

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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to MICKEY on Thu Feb 1 09:04:00 2024
    As a little sidenote here, Windows 11 has a VM program coming (if it's not
    already there) and the last Windows 11 on my desktop is screwing with my
    VMWare Workstation Pro. The Windows 11 machine kept crashing to the green [M=>F]

    I am not surprised. They were playing that game back in the 1990s when I
    first started working with Windows systems. If they couldn't buy you or
    steal from you, they would make it real difficult for your software to run
    in order to get people to buy their (often inferior) alternative.

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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to PAULIE420 on Thu Feb 1 09:09:00 2024
    I would bet [hope] that they have new replacements for machines that they run -
    most of the time the actual reason they don't port over to some current OS is the SOFTWARE; it's not just converting .bat files to .sh scripts, but some [P=>O]

    We still have (or, until recently, did have) some county government offices
    in Kentucky that were using a set of custom-coded COBOL programs (Microfocus
    or IBM) that run on DOS / OS/2 for their property assessment databases.

    They may have finally converted over to something else due to the lack of (cheap) programming resources to make any changes/enhancements to the code.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to MIKE POWELL on Fri Feb 2 06:56:00 2024
    MIKE POWELL wrote to FUSION <=-

    I remember back in the 1990's I was running Desqview. My sister was
    the assistant manager at a local chain restaurant. Somehow we got to talking computers one day and the subject of DV came up.

    Desqview always impressed me. Dr. Strangelove, sysop of Just Say Yes is
    a friend of mine, and he ran his BBS on a 386/25 with 8 MB of RAM -
    heady hardware for the day. (I was running my BBS on a 286 at the time,
    this had to be 1989 or so...)

    He had a nicely modded Searchlight board, and could run 2 dial-up nodes
    and run a local node alongside them under Desqview. I remember coming
    by his house and seeing him chatting with both nodes at once and being
    blown away. There were some *slow* typers back then. :)




    ... HACK THE PLANET!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to MIKE POWELL on Fri Feb 2 06:59:00 2024
    MIKE POWELL wrote to MICKEY <=-

    I am not surprised. They were playing that game back in the 1990s when
    I first started working with Windows systems. If they couldn't buy you
    or steal from you, they would make it real difficult for your software
    to run in order to get people to buy their (often inferior)
    alternative.

    My co-sysop in the '90s worked for a company that sold third-party disk
    compression software - he saw Microsoft in action playing foul -
    stalling until they'd released DoubleSpace.

    His company partnered with Digital Research, and they saw the issues
    DR-DOS had with Windows first-hand.



    ... It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it plays out for 'em...
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Feb 3 18:28:00 2024
    Hello pF!

    Desqview always impressed me. ...
    He had a nicely modded Searchlight board, and could run 2 dial-up nodes
    and run a local node alongside them under Desqview. ...

    My first exposure to what DV could do was seeing it in action
    on a 386 running a 2-node RBBS-PC bbs.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.58
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Feb 4 08:58:00 2024
    He had a nicely modded Searchlight board, and could run 2 dial-up nodes
    and run a local node alongside them under Desqview. I remember coming
    by his house and seeing him chatting with both nodes at once and being
    blown away. There were some *slow* typers back then. :)
    [PF=>MP]

    LOL, yeah there really were, and it seemed like the slow ones were the ones that wanted to chat most often. :D

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link PF 2-02-24 6:56
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Feb 4 09:01:00 2024
    Norton Desktop was a nice desktop environment, I really liked it. Rumor [PF=>P]

    We used it at a company I worked at, where we were running Windows 3.11. A
    few years later, when I first saw the Windows 95 UI, I was not too
    surprised that it looked a lot like Win 3.11 running ND.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link PF 2-02-24 6:52
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  • From Abbub@21:2/145 to Poindexter Fortran on Mon Feb 5 08:20:01 2024
    *** Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Mike Powell dated 02-02-24 ***
    Desqview always impressed me. Dr. Strangelove, sysop of Just Say Yes
    is
    a friend of mine, and he ran his BBS on a 386/25 with 8 MB of RAM -
    heady hardware for the day. (I was running my BBS on a 286 at the
    time,
    this had to be 1989 or so...)

    The board I'm typing this from was originally set up on desqview, running three nodes and a local on a 40Mhz 386 with 32 MB of RAM. The only reason I switched it to OS/2 is because getting fsxnet to work from a straight DOS machine required a bunch of scripting on a linux middleman which I was able to ditch when I moved to OS/2. I had made the same 'move' in the early 90s, starting on DV and then moving to OS/2.

    ---
    * Origin: Telnet: bbs.WalledCTTY.com:1989 - Fort Collins, CO USA (21:2/145)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Feb 5 18:38:13 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos And Win 3.11 A
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MIKE POWELL on Fri Feb 02 2024 06:59 am

    My co-sysop in the '90s worked for a company that sold third-party disk compression software - he saw Microsoft in
    action playing foul - stalling until they'd released DoubleSpace.

    His company partnered with Digital Research, and they saw the issues DR-DOS had with Windows first-hand.

    I remember that. Was it Stacker? I remember hearing about the legal action against Microsoft for that.. MS-DOS 6.00 and 6.20 had DoubleSpace, then they removed it in 6.21, and 6.22 had DriveSpace. It wasn't very long before 6.22 came out, and I wondered how Microsoft was able to make their own non-infringing version so fast..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Abbub on Mon Feb 5 18:40:08 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos And Win 3.11 A
    By: Abbub to Poindexter Fortran on Mon Feb 05 2024 08:20 am

    The board I'm typing this from was originally set up on desqview, running three nodes and a local on a 40Mhz 386
    with 32 MB of RAM. The only reason I switched it to OS/2 is because getting fsxnet to work from a straight DOS

    I had a 386DX-40 PC for a little while.. I think the most RAM I had in it was either 4MB or 8MB though. If I had a retro PC these days, I'd probably like a 386DX-40 or a fast 486. Those PCs ran OS/2 fairly well, too.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Tue Feb 6 06:20:00 2024
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I remember that. Was it Stacker? I remember hearing about the legal action against Microsoft for that.. MS-DOS 6.00 and 6.20 had
    DoubleSpace, then they removed it in 6.21, and 6.22 had DriveSpace. It wasn't very long before 6.22 came out, and I wondered how Microsoft was able to make their own non-infringing version so fast..


    No, he worked for Addstor. They had a program called SuperStor.

    Stac sued Microsoft because they were in talks with Microsoft and
    Microsoft used technical information gleaned from the discussions to
    make DoubleSpace. They re-engineered it to become DriveSpace after the
    ruling, but by that time the damage was done.

    Addstor claimed that DOS was made to throw up error messages on
    non-Microsoft DOSes.



    ... Abandon normal instruments
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Feb 6 09:34:38 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos And Win 3.11 A
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Feb 06 2024 06:20 am

    I remember that. Was it Stacker? I remember hearing about the legal

    No, he worked for Addstor. They had a program called SuperStor.

    Stac sued Microsoft because they were in talks with Microsoft and Microsoft used technical information gleaned from the discussions to make DoubleSpace. They re-engineered it to become DriveSpace after the ruling, but by that time the damage was done.

    Ah, I guess I forgot which company it was and was thinking it was Stacker.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to ABBUB on Tue Feb 6 09:11:00 2024
    The board I'm typing this from was originally set up on desqview, running three
    nodes and a local on a 40Mhz 386 with 32 MB of RAM. The only reason I switched
    it to OS/2 is because getting fsxnet to work from a straight DOS machine [A=>PF]

    This board started on an 8088XT. When it moved to a 386, it also ran under Desqview. It still would be had I not wanted to add telnet capabilities
    (there were not all of the neat Pi/dongle projects to do so back then). It
    ran under OS/2 for several years until I decided I wanted NFS capabilities.

    It now runs in a VM on an sbc that runs linux. ;)

    If I ever revert, it will be to Desqview.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link A 2-05-24 8:20
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to SIRRONMIT on Wed Feb 7 09:17:00 2024

    pF> Really? DOS timeslicing was so bad and there wasn't a decent windows
    pF> FOSSIL back then, must have been challenging.

    Yeah - Spitfire was DOS only and I (totally just forgot that name of the
    program I was using to run 2 nodes - local and dialup). But that program ran great! I'll have to see if I have it around here, I know I made a virtual
    desktop in vmware to plat aroun

    I think it was QEMM?
    [S=>PF]

    It was likely QEMM as the memory manager and DesqView as the actual multitasking program. The two worked together quite well when it came to multitasking for DOS. Many a sysop used them back in the day.

    IIRC, you could use QEMM without DV, but DV required QEMM in order to
    properly multitask multiple DOS windows.

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  • From SirRonmit@21:2/120 to MIKE POWELL on Thu Feb 8 09:33:34 2024
    It was likely QEMM as the memory manager and DesqView as the actual multitasking program. The two worked together quite well when it came to multitasking for DOS. Many a sysop used them back in the day.

    IIRC, you could use QEMM without DV, but DV required QEMM in order to properly multitask multiple DOS windows.

    You are correct. I also found my old 1.44M floppies that had the installers for both. I'm trying to get them to install on a VDi to play around again.

    --
    Timothy Norris aka SirRonmit
    admin@f4fbbs.com
    bbs.f4fbbs.com:2323 or :62323

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Files 4 Fun BBS (21:2/120)
  • From Abbub@21:2/145 to Mike Powell on Thu Feb 8 15:04:52 2024
    *** Quoting Mike Powell to Sirronmit dated 02-07-24 ***
    IIRC, you could use QEMM without DV, but DV required QEMM in order to properly multitask multiple DOS windows.
    At the end of the day, QEMM is mostly just a third-party memory manager. it's just like himem.sys, and in the same sense that windows was married to himem.sys, desqview was similarly married to qemm.

    ---
    * Origin: Telnet: bbs.WalledCTTY.com:1989 - Fort Collins, CO USA (21:2/145)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/195 to Abbub on Fri Feb 9 11:21:56 2024

    Hello Abbub!

    08 Feb 24 15:04, you wrote to Mike Powell:

    IIRC, you could use QEMM without DV, but DV required QEMM in order
    to properly multitask multiple DOS windows.
    At the end of the day, QEMM is mostly just a third-party memory
    manager. it's ust like himem.sys, and in the same sense that windows
    was married to imem.sys, desqview was similarly married to qemm.

    oh the pain.... QEMU could do so much more than what ms had...

    I had a machine that was left with 540K free ram after ms's product did it's thing.
    Installed QEMU and that then went up to 635K free, plus the additional extra ram in the EMS....






    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231021
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- Prt: 6800 (21:1/195)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to ABBUB on Fri Feb 9 10:12:00 2024
    > IIRC, you could use QEMM without DV, but DV required QEMM in order to
    > properly multitask multiple DOS windows.
    At the end of the day, QEMM is mostly just a third-party memory manager. it's just like himem.sys, and in the same sense that windows was married to
    himem.sys, desqview was similarly married to qemm.
    [A=>MP]

    Except that QEMM predated HIMEM.SYS and any use of it by windows. OTOH, my recollection is that Quarterdeck tried to create a version of QEMM that
    would work well with windows and M$ made it very difficult.

    Mike

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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to VORLON on Fri Feb 9 10:15:00 2024
    I had a machine that was left with 540K free ram after ms's product did it's thing.
    Installed QEMU and that then went up to 635K free, plus the additional extra ram in the EMS....
    [V=>A]

    This. ;) The only time I found that the MS managers would be better would
    be when the client had a bunch of MS things that wouldn't play well with
    non-MS managers.

    The older DOS machine I have sitting here has an option on boot to use the
    MS managers instead, for instances where I, too, had some MS things I
    wanted to use. ;) That was not too often but did happen!

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link V 2-09-24 11:21
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  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Tue Feb 13 10:30:00 2024
    When I ran my RemoteAccess BBS in the 90s, I only had one phone line for it, so
    I just ran the 2-node (registered) version of RemoteAccess. At one point, I wanted to be able to log in locally (as the sysop) when a user was online, so I figured out how to
    [N=>S]

    I also only had one line, so the extra "node" that DV allowed would have
    been up for me to log on locally, too. It also provided a window that I
    could be in ready QWK packets (or using this sysop mail reader) while the dial-up node was free for callers.

    For someone running a 386DX40, Desqview was the bomb!

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to MIKE POWELL on Tue Feb 13 13:47:14 2024
    Re: Re: Ms-Dos And Win 3.11 A
    By: MIKE POWELL to NIGHTFOX on Tue Feb 13 2024 10:30 am

    For someone running a 386DX40, Desqview was the bomb!

    I had a 386DX-40, but even before that, I was running DesqView on a 386SX-16, and it ran great.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175 to NIGHTFOX on Wed Feb 14 08:45:00 2024
    MP> For someone running a 386DX40, Desqview was the bomb!

    I had a 386DX-40, but even before that, I was running DesqView on a 386SX-16, and it ran great.
    [N=>MP]

    The DX-40 was the first experience I had with a machine that was not an XT.
    I actually bought it for the purpose of multitasking with DesqView.

    Mike

    ##Mmr 2.61. !link N 2-13-24 13:47
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