• OpenXP

    From Oli@21:3/102 to acn on Sat Sep 11 19:24:16 2021
    acn wrote (2021-09-11):

    I'm more interested in fixing the current software and standards.

    That's a good intention.

    I hope that eg. OpenXP would still be compatible with your ideas.

    I don't expect that binkp/1.1 compatibility will go away anytime soon.

    Because, as I see it, many of the original authors of this (really
    great and superior to most other similar) program aren't part of the current development team. And as I understand it, the current team
    mostly only fixes small bugs - but there won't be much progress eg.
    for new platforms (arm...) and there won't be big rewrites eg. of the
    BinkP part.

    Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to Pascal.

    I guess something like this might be true for other parts of FTN software...

    .... and most of the other other old software is abandoned and doesn't compile on modern systems or is closed source and there is no hope of any update. I guess unmaintained FTN software will become irrelevant at some point. It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch software?

    Does OpenXP binkp mailer work in server mode too or is it client only?

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Sat Sep 11 20:33:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

    Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi,
    which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that
    would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little
    endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know
    how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to
    Pascal.

    There is an extra library that is needed for the compilation to
    work. I forget the details. I'll ask around.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Sat Sep 11 21:11:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

    Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which didn't
    work out of the box. [...]

    Found it.

    Perhaps the answer you seek is here:

    https://openxp.uk/doc/distros.txt


    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Ogg on Sun Sep 12 07:57:38 2021
    Ogg wrote (2021-09-11):

    Hello Oli!

    ** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

    Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi,
    which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that
    would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little
    endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know
    how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to
    Pascal.

    There is an extra library that is needed for the compilation to
    work. I forget the details. I'll ask around.

    For compiling you need the Indy library.

    The first compilation error is this one:

    Compiling xp_uue.pas
    xp_uue.pas(153,16) Error: Unknown identifier "EBX"
    xp_uue.pas(154,16) Error: Unknown identifier "ESI"
    xp_uue.pas(155,16) Error: Unknown identifier "EDI"
    xp_uue.pas(156,11) Error: Unrecognized opcode lea
    xp_uue.pas(156,15) Error: Assembler syntax error
    xp_uue.pas(157,18) Error: Unknown identifier "EBX"
    xp_uue.pas(157,20) Error: Assembler syntax error in operand
    xp_uue.pas(157,37) Fatal: Syntax error, "register" expected but "identifier" found
    Fatal: Compilation aborted
    Error: /usr/bin/ppcarm returned an error exitcode

    The funny part is that someone ported it from 32 to 64 bit (and maybe from 16 bit before). No idea why they didn't write that part in Pascal. I doubt that the speed difference is significant anymore.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to acn on Sun Sep 12 10:45:13 2021

    acn wrote (2021-09-11):
    I hope that eg. OpenXP would still be compatible with your ideas.
    Because, as I see it, many of the original authors of this (really
    great and superior to most other similar) program aren't part of the
    current development team. And as I understand it, the current team
    mostly only fixes small bugs - but there won't be much progress eg.
    for new platforms (arm...) and there won't be big rewrites eg. of the
    BinkP part.

    Btw, OpenXP has a sysop mode, which should work fine with an external mailer.

    I downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which didn't
    work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There was some
    assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional and needs to
    be ported to Pascal.

    I gave it another try and was able to compile an run OpenXP on my Raspi. This doesn't mean its fully functional, because I cheated a little bit. There are two units with asm code. I commented out the assembler parts, which means something will not work or will crash in my OpenXP build. I haven't tested much. Config menus, help and binkp netcall works though. I haven't spotted anything unusual (yet).

    If someone wants to help the project: the documentation for compiling on Linux (and maybe on other platforms too) could need some cleanup. There are several readmes and scripts in different directories and most of them are outdated. The RPM build file openxp.spec was the most helpful one.


    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Sun Sep 12 08:46:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Sunday 12.09.21 - 10:45, Oli wrote to acn:


    I gave it another try and was able to compile an run OpenXP
    on my Raspi. This doesn't mean its fully functional,
    because I cheated a little bit [...]

    If someone wants to help the project: the documentation for
    compiling on Linux (and maybe on other platforms too) could
    need some cleanup. There are several readmes and scripts in
    different directories and most of them are outdated. The
    RPM build file openxp.spec was the most helpful one.

    Whatever updates and discoveries that you can share would be
    useful. Perhaps link up to the "official" openxp support echo
    and introduce yourself.

    Look for [1] CROSSPOINT in Fido, or
    [2] https://groups.google.com/g/de.comm.software.crosspoint, or
    [3] de.comm.software.crosspoint via nntp.

    Most of the comms would be in German between users (but I think
    it is mainly just that - users), but the main active developer
    will accomodate English quite well.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Oli on Tue Sep 14 11:26:00 2021
    Am 11.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

    Hallo Oli,

    Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which
    didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a
    port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There
    was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional
    and needs to be ported to Pascal.

    As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
    Very nice!
    I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

    I guess something like this might be true for other parts of FTN
    software...

    .... and most of the other other old software is abandoned and
    doesn't compile on modern systems or is closed source and there is
    no hope of any update. I guess unmaintained FTN software will
    become irrelevant at some point.

    I guess that will be the case when the sysops which run these programs
    on their old hardware or on VMs also ...well... 'become irrelevant'.
    As long as these old systems are still up and running, eg. on DOS or
    OS/2, there should be a compatibility layer or sth. ilke that to
    support them.

    It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and
    has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch
    software?

    I don't know if these networks are still online...
    I used to connect to a MAUS in Stuttgart, Germany, but that was back
    in ~2005 - and I've used a MAUS point software on a Macintosh SE/30 :)

    Does OpenXP binkp mailer work in server mode too or is it client only?

    AFAIK it's client-only but together with an external mailer you can
    use the 'sysop mode'.

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to acn on Wed Sep 15 10:24:47 2021
    acn wrote (2021-09-14):

    Am 11.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

    Hallo Oli,

    I downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which
    didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a
    port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There
    was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional
    and needs to be ported to Pascal.

    As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
    Very nice!
    I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

    Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective. I don't think I'm going to learn Pascal. I also don't speak assembly language. But if someone ports the asm code to Pascal I can try to compile it again.

    The good thing: OpenXP has been ported to FreePascal (and Unix) and FP is quite portable, if you one can replace the few lines of asm.

    It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and
    has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch
    software?

    I don't know if these networks are still online...
    I used to connect to a MAUS in Stuttgart, Germany, but that was back
    in ~2005 - and I've used a MAUS point software on a Macintosh SE/30 :)

    Nice. I started with Fido and never tried one of the other networks. In retrospect I should have.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Wed Sep 15 22:40:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 10:24, Oli wrote to acn:

    As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile
    it on ARM. Very nice! I hope that you can help a little in
    making OpenXP future-proof :)

    Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but
    the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

    What specifically is weird? OpenXP is a console program. It
    looks not unlike the main message window of a BBS.

    Screenshots: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/

    It pretty much has the BEST message editor bar none. ;)





    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Ogg on Sat Sep 18 18:33:36 2021
    Ogg wrote (2021-09-15):

    Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but
    the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

    What specifically is weird? OpenXP is a console program. It
    looks not unlike the main message window of a BBS.

    I think most BBS are horrible when it comes to usability ;-).

    XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Sat Sep 18 19:37:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Saturday 18.09.21 - 18:33, Oli wrote to Ogg:

    I think most BBS are horrible when it comes to usability ;-).

    True. Most BBS interfaces could frustrate newbies, especially
    when it comes to selecting areas to read, posting messages and
    using the key-shortcuts for quoting/editing and saving
    messages.


    XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are
    all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different
    from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and
    I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for
    someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the
    meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

    There is an internal F1-Help system that is pretty good!

    The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins. But all
    that a newbie needs to know to get started is explained in the
    UserGuide known as oxpguide.pdf, available here:

    https://openxp.uk/doc/



    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Ogg on Tue Sep 21 16:16:48 2021
    Ogg wrote (2021-09-18):

    XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are
    all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different
    from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and
    I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for
    someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the
    meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

    There is an internal F1-Help system that is pretty good!

    Having an explanation for every menu and field is very helpful indeed.

    The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

    AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Avon on Fri Sep 24 08:51:41 2021
    Avon wrote (2021-09-24):

    On 24 Sep 2021 at 08:26a, deon pondered and said...

    I guess "ftn" could be changed to "fido" - but keeping it short and
    suite.

    I'd build it with 'fsx' in mind :)

    Which is an FTN (FidoNet technology network) or in short a fido-net(work), but an FTN is not a message/packet/bundle. FTN is often used to say Fido-something without the meaning of FidoNet (Zone 1-4 / Policy 4), like in FTN technology (FidoNet technology network technology) or FTN network (FidoNet technology network network). You could just say FT (FidoTech) or fido, but the first sounds like Financial Times and the second has "Fido" in the name, which for some reason should be avoided. Fido is also a name for dogs and dogs smell, emit unnerving noises, and shit everywhere.

    Conclusion: all terms are equally bad.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Oli on Fri Sep 24 17:18:00 2021
    Am 15.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

    Hallo Oli,

    As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
    Very nice!
    I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

    Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

    I guess that could be said about almost every other FTN mail reader software...
    At least it's way better than every BBS message reader that I've seen,
    eg. in Mystic or Synchronet.

    AFAIK most on-line BBS message readers only utilize a "last read
    pointer", but OpenXP also stores a "read/unread" flag for every
    message.
    This is a must-have feature for a good message reader!
    And I absolutely love the thread-view - as threads can span several
    echos and can even continue in NetMails, OpenXP takes this into
    account and displays echo changes and also NetMails (in and out) that
    are part of a thread.
    I've never seen anything as good as that again for message networks.

    So, while the UI isn't as standard conforming as it could be, the
    basic features are fantastic.
    And some Pascal specialists could have a look at the basic UI
    functions and make it conform to todays standards a little more.

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Oli on Sat Sep 25 03:34:21 2021
    On 24 Sep 2021 at 08:51a, Oli pondered and said...

    I'd build it with 'fsx' in mind :)

    Which is an FTN (FidoNet technology network) or in short a
    fido-net(work), but an FTN is not a message/packet/bundle. FTN is often used to say Fido-something without the meaning of FidoNet (Zone 1-4 / Policy 4), like in FTN technology (FidoNet technology network
    technology) or FTN network (FidoNet technology network network). You

    But we are talking about something that has no existing
    precedence in the "FTN" world; "FSX" would be cool.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to tenser on Sat Sep 25 16:36:54 2021
    On 25 Sep 2021 at 03:34a, tenser pondered and said...

    But we are talking about something that has no existing
    precedence in the "FTN" world; "FSX" would be cool.

    I'm glad you said that because that's where I was going with it too.

    I understand what FTN is, means etc. I also know fsxNet has been set up to be experimental as part of it's reason to be, so I can't see why it should remain wholly as a FTN network. Who knows in years to come it might be a mix of a bunch of things, that would be kinda neat in my books :)

    ... The dog ate my .REP packet

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Avon on Sat Sep 25 07:40:46 2021
    Avon wrote (2021-09-25):

    On 25 Sep 2021 at 03:34a, tenser pondered and said...

    But we are talking about something that has no existing
    precedence in the "FTN" world; "FSX" would be cool.

    I'm glad you said that because that's where I was going with it too.

    I understand what FTN is, means etc.

    I don't doubt that. Should I put everything in big <IRONY> tags next time? ;)

    I also know fsxNet has been set up
    to be experimental as part of it's reason to be, so I can't see why it should remain wholly as a FTN network. Who knows in years to come it
    might be a mix of a bunch of things, that would be kinda neat in my books :)

    I thought we were talking about the fido part and how to name the content-type of a fido packet.

    I guess "ftn" could be changed to "fido" - but keeping it short and
    suite.

    I'd build it with 'fsx' in mind :)

    I'm still not sure what you mean by this.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to tenser on Sat Sep 25 07:41:05 2021
    tenser wrote (2021-09-25):

    On 24 Sep 2021 at 08:51a, Oli pondered and said...

    I'd build it with 'fsx' in mind :)

    Which is an FTN (FidoNet technology network) or in short a
    fido-net(work), but an FTN is not a message/packet/bundle. FTN is
    often used to say Fido-something without the meaning of FidoNet
    (Zone 1-4 / Policy 4), like in FTN technology (FidoNet technology
    network technology) or FTN network (FidoNet technology network
    network). You

    But we are talking about something that has no existing
    precedence in the "FTN" world; "FSX" would be cool.

    Cool for what?

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to All on Sat Sep 25 09:37:00 2021
    FTX.

    It's like FTN, but X is cooler.


    ... XT or AT, it makes a big difference.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Oli on Tue Sep 28 01:26:40 2021
    On 25 Sep 2021 at 07:41a, Oli pondered and said...

    But we are talking about something that has no existing
    precedence in the "FTN" world; "FSX" would be cool.

    Cool for what?

    Using as part of a token in a Content-Type header, of course!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Oli on Thu Sep 30 11:56:52 2021
    On 25 Sep 2021 at 07:40a, Oli pondered and said...

    I don't doubt that. Should I put everything in big <IRONY> tags next
    time? ;)

    It's all good, I need to read between the lines a bit more too :)

    should remain wholly as a FTN network. Who knows in years to come it might be a mix of a bunch of things, that would be kinda neat in my bo :)

    I thought we were talking about the fido part and how to name the content-type of a fido packet.

    You probably were and I was not paying attention. But any naming convention with a fsx in it I am always keen on :) Hahah

    ... Computers all wait at the same speed!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Sep 30 11:57:19 2021
    On 25 Sep 2021 at 09:37a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    FTX.
    It's like FTN, but X is cooler.

    I like, but I am biased..

    ... I wish life had a scroll-back buffer.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/09/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Oli on Sat Oct 2 21:00:00 2021
    Hello Oli!

    ** On Tuesday 21.09.21 - 16:16, Oli wrote to Ogg:

    The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

    AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

    In the now almost 3 yrs of using OpenXP, I haven't encountered
    any messagebase issues. Do you percieve a problem with the
    ZConnect format?




    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Ogg on Sun Oct 3 09:56:30 2021
    Ogg wrote (2021-10-02):

    The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

    AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

    In the now almost 3 yrs of using OpenXP, I haven't encountered
    any messagebase issues. Do you percieve a problem with the
    ZConnect format?

    Not that I am aware of, more a fun fact. Z-Netz is dead for two decades and *XP is AFAIK the only actively maintained and used software that uses that format (and only internally as there is no remote box online anymore that understands ZConnect).

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Digital Man on Sat Jan 1 10:48:00 2022
    Hello Digital Man!

    ** On Friday 31.12.21 - 21:22, Digital Man wrote to apam:

    It's always possible that a network could be formed (or
    switch to) a non-FTN technoloy.

    Or.. perhaps FTN2 could be something that only supports modern
    and still-in-development software?


    However, before anything "new" is proposed, I suggest a
    careful examination of what is wrong with the current
    technology (FTN). I've started my own list here:

    Didn't know that existed. I have some questions. I'll probably
    build that up in FUTURE4FIDO.


    Yeah, probably a dead end. There's the occasional
    discussion of the same subject on FidoNet proper (e.g.
    Future4fido echo), but I don't think it's ever going to
    amount to much because of the compatiblity issue.

    Again.. perhaps the answer is to retire the support for
    abandoned software. It's not unlike the progression in www with
    html to html5 and other layers. Many sites would simply not
    work with Netscape for example, and not many users of Netscape
    would stick to using it.



    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to Ogg on Sat Jan 1 12:48:51 2022
    Re: what is wrong with the current technology (FTN)
    By: Ogg to Digital Man on Sat Jan 01 2022 10:48 am

    Hello Digital Man!

    ** On Friday 31.12.21 - 21:22, Digital Man wrote to apam:

    It's always possible that a network could be formed (or
    switch to) a non-FTN technoloy.

    Or.. perhaps FTN2 could be something that only supports modern
    and still-in-development software?

    And "still-in-development" is a dynamic state (what's in-development today may not be tomorrow), so it's more of a sign of the times. In any case, I'd look closely at other network technologies (e.g. WWIVnet, NNTP, QWK, PostLink) before inventing a new noe. At the very least, you can take away the best ideas to be utilized in a new network technology. I would not recommend trying to tying anything "new" to FidoNet however. That's just asking for trouble. :-)

    However, before anything "new" is proposed, I suggest a
    careful examination of what is wrong with the current
    technology (FTN). I've started my own list here:

    Didn't know that existed. I have some questions. I'll probably
    build that up in FUTURE4FIDO.


    Yeah, probably a dead end. There's the occasional
    discussion of the same subject on FidoNet proper (e.g.
    Future4fido echo), but I don't think it's ever going to
    amount to much because of the compatiblity issue.

    Again.. perhaps the answer is to retire the support for
    abandoned software. It's not unlike the progression in www with
    html to html5 and other layers. Many sites would simply not
    work with Netscape for example, and not many users of Netscape
    would stick to using it.

    Nobody's stopping old web sites using old versions of HTML from still working however. If you have a retro computer with Mosaic, it's still gonna work on those sites, which is pretty cool. I can see similar arguments being made about FidoNet. Dust off that old IBM XT from the 1980s and its still possible to get it on FidoNet using (much of) the software of that era.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #5:
    Nigel Tufnel: Authorities said... best leave it... unsolved.
    Norco, CA WX: 59.0F, 25.0% humidity, 3 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Digital Man on Tue Jan 4 19:28:00 2022
    Hello Digital Man!

    ** On Saturday 01.01.22 - 12:48, Digital Man wrote to Ogg:

    Or.. perhaps FTN2 could be something that only supports modern
    and still-in-development software?

    And "still-in-development" is a dynamic state (what's in-
    development today may not be tomorrow), so it's more of a
    sign of the times.

    I think it could be very straightforward. Just stipulate that
    in order to participate in FTN2, certain NEW minimums (and in
    this case a higher bar) must be met.


    In any case, I'd look closely at other network
    technologies (e.g. WWIVnet, NNTP, QWK, PostLink) before
    inventing a new noe.

    JamNNTP is fairly impressive. It affords reading echos from
    one's own mail program. I think the vision ought to be what can
    support the average non-sysop/user.


    At the very least, you can take away the best ideas to be
    utilized in a new network technology. I would not
    recommend trying to tying anything "new" to FidoNet
    however. That's just asking for trouble. :-)

    Aww.. where's your sense of adventure?


    Again.. perhaps the answer is to retire the support for
    abandoned software. It's not unlike the progression in www..

    Nobody's stopping old web sites using old versions of HTML
    from still working however. If you have a retro computer
    with Mosaic, it's still gonna work on those sites, which
    is pretty cool. I can see similar arguments being made
    about FidoNet. Dust off that old IBM XT from the 1980s and
    its still possible to get it on FidoNet using (much of)
    the software of that era. --

    The novelty to try Fido 1.0 might be interesting, but is it
    practical and useful on a regular basis or in the long run?
    Probably not. Same thing with Mosaic - it might be fun as a
    curiosity to re-experience its limitations, but then the
    limitations can get old fast. ;)




    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to Ogg on Thu Jan 6 12:03:56 2022
    Re: what is wrong with the current technology (FTN)
    By: Ogg to Digital Man on Tue Jan 04 2022 07:28 pm

    Hello Digital Man!

    ** On Saturday 01.01.22 - 12:48, Digital Man wrote to Ogg:

    Or.. perhaps FTN2 could be something that only supports modern
    and still-in-development software?

    And "still-in-development" is a dynamic state (what's in-
    development today may not be tomorrow), so it's more of a
    sign of the times.

    I think it could be very straightforward. Just stipulate that
    in order to participate in FTN2, certain NEW minimums (and in
    this case a higher bar) must be met.

    Then just call it something else entirely.

    In any case, I'd look closely at other network
    technologies (e.g. WWIVnet, NNTP, QWK, PostLink) before
    inventing a new noe.

    JamNNTP is fairly impressive. It affords reading echos from
    one's own mail program. I think the vision ought to be what can
    support the average non-sysop/user.

    JamNNTP (as I understand it) is just an NNTP service that uses JAM to store the news articles. Much like Synchronet's nntpservice.js. If you think NNTP is an ideal networking technology, just use that. No need to invent something new.

    At the very least, you can take away the best ideas to be
    utilized in a new network technology. I would not
    recommend trying to tying anything "new" to FidoNet
    however. That's just asking for trouble. :-)

    Aww.. where's your sense of adventure?

    I enjoy adventures in technology, not personality. :-)

    Again.. perhaps the answer is to retire the support for
    abandoned software. It's not unlike the progression in www..

    Nobody's stopping old web sites using old versions of HTML
    from still working however. If you have a retro computer
    with Mosaic, it's still gonna work on those sites, which
    is pretty cool. I can see similar arguments being made
    about FidoNet. Dust off that old IBM XT from the 1980s and
    its still possible to get it on FidoNet using (much of)
    the software of that era. --

    The novelty to try Fido 1.0 might be interesting, but is it
    practical and useful on a regular basis or in the long run?
    Probably not. Same thing with Mosaic - it might be fun as a
    curiosity to re-experience its limitations, but then the
    limitations can get old fast. ;)

    Yup, but it's still a thing that people are interested in doing even if just sporadically or for short periods of time.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Breaking Bad quote #17:
    Your breath could knock the buzzard off a shit wagon. - Hank
    Norco, CA WX: 68.3F, 44.0% humidity, 2 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)