• OT: Fidonet/BBS talk on 34c3

    From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to All on Mon Jan 1 17:14:40 2018
    Hi All!

    Hope this offtopic post is OK.

    Just wanted to tell you that on the chaos communication congress there was a talk about old school computer communications by LaForge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhLK8Mbw_g

    PS: Interesting fact he very often made the mistake to say BTS (Base Tranceiver
    Station) instead of BBS.
    Seems to be rooted in his desire to speak about something more interesting. Another interesting fact is the laughs that went through the audience, when they were told that the password is sent over telnet in the clear. (very strange fact for 2018 indeed!)

    Anyhow ... maybe some of you are interested in the talk.
    It covers many aspects of early PC communications from UUCP, SLIP, community networks, etc.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: If at first you don't succeed; Blame everyone else. (21:1/104)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 1 17:26:24 2018
    Hi Ricsi!

    Addendum to my last message.
    It seems that he was infected by the dreaded BBS virus more than expected. https://osmocom.org/projects/retro-bbs

    I wish that he will recover soon ;-PP
    (PS: OSMOCOM is the open source mobile communication project ... with many interesting subprojects like OpenBSC, OsmocomBB, OsmoTetra, ... so if you have some time look around ... it is worth it ;)

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Crime does not pay... as well as politics. (21:1/104)
  • From tenser@21:1/112 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 1 14:28:54 2018
    I watched this talk was surprised about how much he got wrong. He really
    seemed to conflate USENET and the Internet, but the two were historically
    very separate: UUCP != IP.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A37 2017/12/30 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: ACiD Telnet HQ / blackflag.acid.org (21:1/112)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 1 12:43:42 2018

    On Monday, January 1st Richard Menedetter was heard saying...
    Just wanted to tell you that on the chaos communication congress there was a talk about old school computer communications by LaForge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhLK8Mbw_g

    If you're interested in BBS's (and you ARE, cuz you're HERE!) and retro in general, this is a really good talk. Lots of technical detail, which is generally lacking from this kind of thing.

    If you want a MKV version, there is a 720p copy on Xibalba free for the leeching.



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 1 13:08:54 2018
    Re: OT: Fidonet/BBS talk on 34c3
    By: Richard Menedetter to All on Mon Jan 01 2018 05:14 pm

    Hi All!

    Hey Ricsi, Happy New Year to you.. :)

    Just wanted to tell you that on the chaos communication congress there was a talk about old school computer communications by LaForge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhLK8Mbw_g

    Sounds intereting. I'm going to have a look.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... You can name your salary here, I call mine fred.
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    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC trmb.synchro.net (21:4/106)
  • From Static@21:2/140 to tenser on Mon Jan 1 21:42:41 2018
    On 01/01/18, tenser said the following...

    I watched this talk was surprised about how much he got wrong. He really seemed to conflate USENET and the Internet, but the two were historically very separate: UUCP != IP.

    That stood out, though he did refer to "Internet" in quotes with regard to UUCP. And since UUCP traffic was commonly gated to the Internet I can see how the distinction gets muddled. Bang paths on their own had more in common with FTN routing.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140)
  • From Lloyd@21:1/103 to Richard Menedetter on Tue Jan 2 19:31:17 2018

    Just wanted to tell you that on the chaos communication congress there
    was a talk about old school computer communications by LaForge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhLK8Mbw_g

    Cheers, I'll have a look at that for sure!

    Many thanks
    Lloyd

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: - Micro Link BBS - QLD, OZ (21:1/103)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to tenser on Mon Jan 8 20:33:16 2018
    Hi tenser!

    01 Jan 2018 14:28, from tenser -> Richard Menedetter:

    I watched this talk was surprised about how much he got wrong.
    He really seemed to conflate USENET and the Internet, but the two were historically very separate: UUCP != IP.

    I do not think he got it wrong.
    He talks about his roots, and he simply switched to IP much earlier than many others ;))

    Also I was fascinated about the Usenet satellite feed ... i know outernet, but I did not know something like this existed in the mid 90s.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Good morning! Is an opinion, not a greeting. (21:1/104)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to NuSkooler on Mon Jan 8 20:35:48 2018
    Hi NuSkooler!

    01 Jan 2018 12:43, from NuSkooler -> Richard Menedetter:

    If you're interested in BBS's (and you ARE, cuz you're HERE!)

    fsx_cry is about cryptography ;))))

    and retro in general, this is a really good talk. Lots of technical detail, which is generally lacking from this kind of thing.
    If you want a MKV version, there is a 720p copy on Xibalba free for
    the leeching.

    What is it named??
    I have no clue about xibalba.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Integrated Circuit (n): a device used to protect fuses. (21:1/104)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to Al on Mon Jan 8 20:36:54 2018
    Hi Al!

    01 Jan 2018 13:08, from Al -> Richard Menedetter:

    Hey Ricsi, Happy New Year to you.. :)

    Same to you too!!!
    (I was down with a terrible cold from 29.12.-yesterday.)

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Dinner not ready: (A)bort (R)etry (P)izza (21:1/104)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 8 15:32:43 2018

    On Monday, January 8th Richard Menedetter was heard saying...
    fsx_cry is about cryptography ;))))

    ...sure, I'm responding to a thread about this video you started!

    On Monday, January 8th Richard Menedetter was heard saying...
    What is it named?? I have no clue about xibalba.

    Xibalba BBS. You can search for the MKV version of the video there (xibalba.l33t.codes:44510)



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to NuSkooler on Thu Jan 11 23:12:16 2018
    Hi NuSkooler!

    08 Jan 2018 15:32, from NuSkooler -> Richard Menedetter:

    I have no clue about xibalba.
    Xibalba BBS. You can search for the MKV version of the video there (xibalba.l33t.codes:44510)

    This is a joke, or??

    Why on earth would anybody want to download a MKV file over a telnet connection, where it is converted to a serial stream beforehand, instead of using something that is made for that task as eg. HTTPS or even SFTP.

    The only thing that would be more cumbersome is if you would print the packets out and use RFC 2549 (IP over avian carrier) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549

    I would have expected something like

    https://fileserver.net/files/video.mkv

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: All the easy problems have been solved. (21:1/104)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Richard Menedetter on Fri Jan 12 08:33:23 2018
    This is a joke, or??

    We get it.. you don't like BBSes.

    If you'd had a look, you would see that Xibalba supports HTTP downloads.

    Andrew


    --- MagickaBBS v0.7alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Exotica BBS - telnet://exoticabbs.com:2023/ (21:1/125)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Richard Menedetter on Fri Jan 12 11:44:00 2018
    Richard Menedetter wrote to NuSkooler <=-

    Why on earth would anybody want to download a MKV file over a telnet connection, where it is converted to a serial stream beforehand,
    instead of using something that is made for that task as eg. HTTPS or
    even SFTP.

    Actually for large files, I'm not a big fan of HTTP(S) either. I have seen transfers abort with "successful completion" too many times when the network is flaky. . I much prefer the FTP family of protocols for that sort of work. FTP hangs in longer, and if it fails, a decent client/server combination supports reget. After that, you have to restart, and caching may even make matters worse.

    The only thing that would be more cumbersome is if you would print the packets out and use RFC 2549 (IP over avian carrier) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549

    Yeah, then having to type them in on the other end in hex! :D


    ... I don't have time to wait for instant gratification.
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  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to apam on Thu Jan 11 18:40:39 2018

    On Thursday, January 11th apam was heard saying...
    This is a joke, or??

    If you'd had a look, you would see that Xibalba supports HTTP downloads.

    ^ this.


    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Vk3jed on Thu Jan 11 18:42:39 2018

    On Thursday, January 11th Vk3jed was heard saying...
    Actually for large files, I'm not a big fan of HTTP(S) either. I have seen transfers abort with "successful completion" too many times when the network is flaky. . I much prefer the FTP family of protocols for that sort of work. FTP hangs in longer, and if it fails, a decent client/server combination supports reget. After that, you have to restart, and caching may even make matters worse.

    FTP is a pretty horrid protocol. So bad that OS's have to have special hacks for a *layer 7 protocol* in their kernels.

    HTTP(S) supports continuation. I regularly downloads gigs and gigs over HTTP. Torrent is nice of course, if there are many good seeds. SCP isn't too bad.





    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to NuSkooler on Fri Jan 12 20:16:00 2018
    NuSkooler wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    FTP is a pretty horrid protocol. So bad that OS's have to have special hacks for a *layer 7 protocol* in their kernels.

    HTTP(S) supports continuation. I regularly downloads gigs and gigs over HTTP. Torrent is nice of course, if there are many good seeds. SCP
    isn't too bad.

    Yeah, I have had HTTP transfers fail quite a lot, however. Resume doesn't always work, and when caching gets in the way it's a nightmare. Failing HTTP is a real pain. Yeah SCP works well, and torrent is the best, wish more download sites made use of it. The fastest way for me to download things like Likux distros.


    ... "Hello, World!" 17 Errors, 31 Warnings....
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  • From bcw142@21:1/145 to Vk3jed on Fri Jan 12 07:52:40 2018
    On 01/12/18, Vk3jed said the following...


    Your mostly using Linux aren't you? Use wget -c http:/whatever/ it should resume if possible itself. There are Windows versions as well.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Mystic Pi BBS bcw142.zapto.org (21:1/145)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to bcw142 on Sat Jan 13 05:45:00 2018
    bcw142 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 01/12/18, Vk3jed said the following...


    Your mostly using Linux aren't you? Use wget -c http:/whatever/ it
    should resume if possible itself. There are Windows versions as well.

    Not always possible, with so many sites now using HTTP landing pages to initiate downloads. It can be very hard to find the direct URL, if there is one. My point was HTTP can be a real pain when dealing with large files on an iffy network connection. Oh, and resume doesn't seem to work when your end thinks it has the whole file. :(


    ... File not found: Loading something that looks similar...
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  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to apam on Sun Jan 14 22:43:40 2018
    Hi apam!

    12 Jan 2018 08:33, from apam -> Richard Menedetter:

    This is a joke, or??
    We get it.. you don't like BBSes.

    It is not a thing of liking or not.
    It is simply the wrong tool to make files available for an easy download.

    If you'd had a look, you would see that Xibalba supports HTTP
    downloads.

    Feel free to send me the URL.
    Would be much welcomed!!

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Life can be great if you live it to the fullest! (21:1/104)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to Vk3jed on Sun Jan 14 22:45:50 2018
    Hi Vk3jed!

    12 Jan 2018 11:44, from Vk3jed -> Richard Menedetter:

    Why on earth would anybody want to download a MKV file over a
    telnet connection, where it is converted to a serial stream
    beforehand, instead of using something that is made for that task
    as eg. HTTPS or even SFTP.
    Actually for large files, I'm not a big fan of HTTP(S) either.
    I have seen transfers abort with "successful completion" too many
    times when the network is flaky. I much prefer the FTP family of
    protocols for that sort of work. FTP hangs in longer, and if it fails,
    a decent client/server combination supports reget. After that, you
    have to restart, and caching may even make matters worse.

    I had never really had issues with HTTP(S) not downloading files completely. (HTTP also supports reget if the server is not ancient).

    But anyhow FTP, SFTP, HTTP, HTTPS are all truckloads better than the original idea.
    (Stuff like zmodem or even xmodem ... shudder :( )

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Mary had a little lamb... a little beef, a little ham. (21:1/104)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to bcw142 on Sun Jan 14 22:50:18 2018
    Hi bcw142!

    12 Jan 2018 07:52, from bcw142 -> Vk3jed:

    Your mostly using Linux aren't you? Use wget -c http:/whatever/ it
    should resume if possible itself. There are Windows versions as well.

    Indeed.
    That is what I usually do as well.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Self Extracting Tagline. Please wait... (21:1/104)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 15 09:24:59 2018
    It is not a thing of liking or not. It is simply the wrong tool to make files available for an easy download.

    Well you could simply find the file elsewhere - except then you'd have to
    pass up an oppourtunity to bash BBSes again.

    Feel free to send me the URL. Would be much welcomed!!

    You need to log on to Xibalba and generate the url. Or you could just
    find the file elsewhere.

    Andrew

    Andrew
    'I need a catchy signature' - Me.

    --- MagickaBBS v0.7alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Exotica BBS - telnet://exoticabbs.com:2023/ (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Mon Jan 15 14:00:28 2018
    It is not a thing of liking or not. It is simply the wrong tool to mak files available for an easy download.

    Well you could simply find the file elsewhere - except then you'd have to pass up an oppourtunity to bash BBSes again.

    Feel free to send me the URL. Would be much welcomed!!

    You need to log on to Xibalba and generate the url. Or you could just
    find the file elsewhere.

    Hi all.

    There's been a bit of chatter in FSX_CRY as of late which seems to be unrelated to Cryptography. Can you please shift these threads to the general chat echo. Thanks :)

    Best, Paul


    `I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going' - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A37 2017/12/30 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 15 11:51:00 2018
    Richard Menedetter wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I had never really had issues with HTTP(S) not downloading files completely. (HTTP also supports reget if the server is not ancient).

    I have, and the annoying part is when it happens, the file is reported as "complete", so reget is not an option. It only seems to happen on poor connections. Since I've been on 100/40, it hasn't happened.

    But anyhow FTP, SFTP, HTTP, HTTPS are all truckloads better than the original idea.
    (Stuff like zmodem or even xmodem ... shudder :( )

    Certainly for large files, yep. For small files, the only criteria that need apply is that both ends can support the protocol, because the transfer's over before anything goes wrong. :)


    * Origin: Mary had a little lamb... a little beef, a little ham.

    Mary had a little fizz, now look how sick poor Mary is! :D (that was the final part of that one at school. ;) ).


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Jan 15 12:13:00 2018
    Richard Menedetter wrote to apam <=-

    Hi apam!

    12 Jan 2018 08:33, from apam -> Richard Menedetter:

    This is a joke, or??
    We get it.. you don't like BBSes.

    It is not a thing of liking or not.
    It is simply the wrong tool to make files available for an easy
    download.

    If you'd had a look, you would see that Xibalba supports HTTP
    downloads.

    Feel free to send me the URL.
    Would be much welcomed!!

    I tend to give out FTP and HTTP URLS when offering files for download. I also allow guest download access, so the URLS "just work", no password needed. Reminds me, I have to put the VKRadio infopack back online. :)


    ... When eating an elephant, take one bite at a time.
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  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Richard Menedetter on Sun Jan 14 19:08:21 2018

    On Sunday, January 14th Richard Menedetter muttered...
    It is not a thing of liking or not. It is simply the wrong tool to make files available for an easy download.

    ...you could claim that about this entire BBS scene thing we have going on here
    :) A web forum would serve you up a HTTP(S) link. But then again, you don't like HTTP, either /shrug.

    On Sunday, January 14th Richard Menedetter muttered...
    Feel free to send me the URL. Would be much welcomed!!

    ENiG serves users unique short-URL's. If you want the download, hop on Xibalba and download it over the web. If you use e.g. the VTX client (https://xibalba.l33t.codes) the links are clickable, so it's easy as pie.



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to apam on Sun Jan 14 19:09:15 2018

    On Sunday, January 14th apam was heard saying...
    Well you could simply find the file elsewhere - except then you'd have to pass up an oppourtunity to bash BBSes again.

    LOL I should all new messages before I reply to one. I just wrote the same thing.

    ...so: What Apam said :)


    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.8-alpha (linux; x64; 6.11.3)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Richard Menedetter@21:1/104 to apam on Sun Jan 21 12:00:32 2018
    Hi apam!

    15 Jan 2018 09:24, from apam -> Richard Menedetter:

    It is not a thing of liking or not. It is simply the wrong tool to+
    make files available for an easy download.
    Well you could simply find the file elsewhere - except then you'd have
    to pass up an oppourtunity to bash BBSes again.

    I think this is just a difference in expectations.
    When somebody offers me something to check out, I expect it to be a URL that I can paste into a browser, and watch the video, or paste after wget and grab the
    file for local storage.

    But Paul rightfully pointed out this discussion is offtopic here, so let us stop discussing it.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: For sale: Write-only memory chips. (21:1/104)