Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
Basque: Urte Berri On!
Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
Bohemian: Vesele Vanoce
Brazilian: Feliz Ano Novo
Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
Catalan: Feliç any nou!
Cantonese: 新年快樂
Croatian: Sretan Bozic
Czech: Šťastný Nový Rok
Danish: Godt Nytår
Dutch: Gelukkig Nieuwjaar!
English: Happy New Year
Español: Próspero Año Nuevo
Esperanto: Gajan Kristnaskon
Estonian: Head uut aastat
Finnish: Onnellista Uutta Vuotta
Flemish: Gelukkig nieuw jaar
French: Bonne Année!
Frisian: Seine yn it Nije Jier!
Gaelic: Shona Nua bliana
Galician: Ano Novo
German: Glückliches Neues Jahr!
Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
Hindi: Shub Naya Baras
Hungarian: Boldog Új Évet
Icelandic: Hamingjusamur Nýtt Ár
Italian: Felice Anno Nuovo
Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
Latin: Annum Nuovo!
Nederlands: Gelukkig nieuwjaar
Norwegian: Godt Nyttår
Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
Portuguese: Feliz Ano Novo
Rumanian: Anul Nou Fericit
Russian: С новым годом
Spanish: Próspero Año Nuevo
Swahili: Mwaka Mpyaº
Swedish: Gott Nytt År
Turkish: Kutlu Olsun
Ukrainian: З новим роком
Zulu: Jabulela unyaka omusha
--- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

15 Dec 17 00:01, you wrote to All:

MvdV> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV> Ukrainian: З новим роком

It looks exellent on a message reader supporting UTF8, but I still cannot
read it. ;)

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Kees,

On Friday December 15 2017 11:20, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV>> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV>> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV>> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV>> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV>> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV>> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV>> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV>> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV>> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV>> Ukrainian: З новим роком

It looks exellent on a message reader supporting UTF8, but I still
cannot read it. ;)

Rosa can read the Hebrew and the Greek. I can read the Cyrillic and the Polish. Sort of...

You may not be able to read it, but you managed to properly display and quote it in your reader. Complete with a correct @CHRS: UTF-8 4 kludge.
Congratulations!


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

15 Dec 17 13:34, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV>>> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV>>> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV>>> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV>>> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV>>> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV>>> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV>>> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV>>> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV>>> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV>>> Ukrainian: З новим роком

It looks exellent on a message reader supporting UTF8, but I still
cannot read it. ;)

MvdV> Rosa can read the Hebrew and the Greek. I can read the Cyrillic and the
MvdV> Polish. Sort of...

MvdV> You may not be able to read it, but you managed to properly display and
MvdV> quote it in your reader. Complete with a correct @CHRS: UTF-8 4
MvdV> kludge. Congratulations!

Well I dont know what I did, but some time ago I did some tinkerimg.
What surprises me is that almost half the exotic characters do resolve to the
proper glyphs in my terminal emulator.

Things like UTF-8 4 can be manipulated with much hassle. But I still maintain,
that in the xlat implementation in Golded it should be UTF-8 2. As that is
the type of translation table that is used. If the CHSRS character family is
fixed to a translation table type, then that type is redundant and has no
use.

There is no implementation of xlat for type 4 translations as far as I know.
Where proper translation is done, a different method is used and the '4' is
irrelevant.

My aguments sound familear, we must be a yearly pet peeve.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Kees,

On Friday December 15 2017 16:07, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> You may not be able to read it, but you managed to properly
MvdV>> display and quote it in your reader. Complete with a correct
MvdV>> @CHRS: UTF-8 4 kludge. Congratulations!

Well I dont know what I did, but some time ago I did some tinkerimg.
What surprises me is that almost half the exotic characters do resolve
to the proper glyphs in my terminal emulator.

Not bad considering that most console implementations only support a limited subset of the Universal Character Set.

Things like UTF-8 4 can be manipulated with much hassle. But I still maintain, that in the xlat implementation in Golded it should be UTF-8
2. As that is the type of translation table that is used.

When writing this message, there is no translation used at all...

If the CHSRS character family is fixed to a translation table type,
then that type is redundant and has no use.

You come to the right conclusion with the wrong logic. The level parameter is one of those things that looked like a good idea at the time but that with the knowledge of today could have been done without. FTS-5003 recommends to ignore the level parameter on incoming and only use the name of the identifier for processing. For backward compatibility the level parameter should still be written on outgoing messages. For the time being...

Your logic is wrong because the starting point is wrong. The "if" in "If the CHSRS character family is fixed to a translation table type" is not satisfied. The level parameter is NOT fixed to any translation table type.

The level parameter simply denotes the type of encoding. No more, no less. Level 1 and 2 denote a one byte encoding. Level 3 is reserved for two byte encoding and Level 4 denotes a (variable length) multy byte encoding. It has nothing to do with any translation process. So when the text is encoded is UTF-8, the level is 4. Independant of how the encoding came into being.

The level parameter is redundant because the identifiers are unique. There is only one level associated with any identifier. When the identifier is Latin-1, one knows everything one needs to know to properly display the text. Same for UTF-8. The level parameter is a relic of the past and only there for backward compatibility. It may disappear one day. Or not...

My aguments sound familear, we must be a yearly pet peeve.

That happens in the dark days before the festival of the Return Of The Light. ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

On Sat Dec 16 2017 16:16:58, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Kees van Eeten:

You come to the right conclusion with the wrong logic. The level
parameter is one of those things that looked like a good idea at the
time but that with the knowledge of today could have been done
without. FTS-5003 recommends to ignore the level parameter on incoming
and only use the name of the identifier for processing. For backward compatibility the level parameter should still be written on outgoing messages. For the time being...

Probably forever now. The most used softwares these days are not going to remove the level parameter, even though they should.

It may disappear one day. Or not...

Most likely not.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

On Saturday December 16 2017 22:49, you wrote to me:

For backward compatibility the level parameter should
still be written on outgoing messages. For the time being...

Probably forever now. The most used softwares these days are not going
to remove the level parameter, even though they should.

A relevant question is "how much software actually NEEDS the level parameter to do its job?". Golded does not seem to care about the level parameter on incoming messages. I see no difference in behaviour between messages with "UTF-8 2" and "UTF-8 4".

It may disappear one day. Or not...

Most likely not.

Fidonet is full of stuff that we would do very different when we were to redo from start now, but that are hard to get rid of.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Bl■óf Tøn■ón (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

17 Dec 17 13:53, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

MvdV> A relevant question is "how much software actually NEEDS the level
MvdV> parameter to do its job?". Golded does not seem to care about the level
MvdV> parameter on incoming messages. I see no difference in behaviour between
MvdV> messages with "UTF-8 2" and "UTF-8 4".

Jammntpd/Smapinntpd care. It complains that xlat does not support type 4.
If you stretch the test condition, it is as lenient as Golded. I.E.
it can make a usefull mess of it.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Michiel!

16 Dec 17 16:16, you wrote to me:

Well I dont know what I did, but some time ago I did some tinkerimg.
What surprises me is that almost half the exotic characters do resolve
to the proper glyphs in my terminal emulator.

MvdV> Not bad considering that most console implementations only support a
MvdV> limited subset of the Universal Character Set.

Well I think it should either work or not alt all, but it may be caused
by some tinkering I did.

Things like UTF-8 4 can be manipulated with much hassle. But I still
maintain, that in the xlat implementation in Golded it should be UTF-8
2. As that is the type of translation table that is used.

MvdV> When writing this message, there is no translation used at all...

Well, when writing this messages there are a number of translations used.
Some of then without pattern change.

If the CHSRS character family is fixed to a translation table type,
then that type is redundant and has no use.

MvdV> The level parameter simply denotes the type of encoding. No more, no
MvdV> less. Level 1 and 2 denote a one byte encoding. Level 3 is reserved for
MvdV> two byte encoding and Level 4 denotes a (variable length) multy byte
MvdV> encoding. It has nothing to do with any translation process. So when the
MvdV> text is encoded is UTF-8, the level is 4. Independant of how the
MvdV> encoding came into being.

Well in theory you may be right, in practice the implementations in Golded
and jamnntpd use translation tables that only go to level 2.

There is no support for level 4, but you can trick to some results when
declaring level 2. I do not care what the theory says, I am only interested in
what works. Theory is for scolars.

My aguments sound familear, we must be a yearly pet peeve.

MvdV> That happens in the dark days before the festival of the Return Of The
MvdV> Light. ;-)

No, the only time of the year that someone tries to demonstrate that
UTF8 is needed in Fidonet. ;(

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Michiel,

On Sun Dec 17 2017 13:53:56, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Probably forever now. The most used softwares these days are not
going to remove the level parameter, even though they should.

A relevant question is "how much software actually NEEDS the level parameter to do its job?". Golded does not seem to care about the
level parameter on incoming messages. I see no difference in behaviour between messages with "UTF-8 2" and "UTF-8 4".

As far as NEEDING the level parameter, none. Both Golded and JamNNTPd come the closest, but neither actually *support* anything above level 2. You have to use hacks and workarounds in order to achieve anything above that.

It may disappear one day. Or not...

Most likely not.

Fidonet is full of stuff that we would do very different when we were
to redo from start now, but that are hard to get rid of.

Agreed.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Kees,

On Sun Dec 17 2017 15:00:06, Kees van Eeten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV>> A relevant question is "how much software actually NEEDS the
MvdV>> level parameter to do its job?". Golded does not seem to care
MvdV>> about the level parameter on incoming messages. I see no
MvdV>> difference in behaviour between messages with "UTF-8 2" and
MvdV>> "UTF-8 4".

Jammntpd/Smapinntpd care. It complains that xlat does not support
type 4. If you stretch the test condition, it is as lenient as Golded. I.E. it can make a usefull mess of it.

My version doesn't. ;)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Kees,

On Sun Dec 17 2017 14:43:28, Kees van Eeten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

No, the only time of the year that someone tries to demonstrate that
UTF8 is needed in Fidonet. ;(

It's definitely not needed. However, NOT supporting it is merely a limitation and some just don't care to be limited. ;)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 12/15/2017 11:34 AM, Michiel van der Vlist -> Kees van Eeten wrote:
MvdV> Hello Kees,

MvdV> On Friday December 15 2017 11:20, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV>>> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV>>> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV>>> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV>>> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV>>> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV>>> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV>>> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV>>> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV>>> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV>>> Ukrainian: З новим роком

It looks exellent on a message reader supporting UTF8, but I still
cannot read it. ;)

It renders properly here as well, but I still cannot read it. ;)

Selamat hari Natal
Selamat tahun baru

--

De Groeten,
Kees

---
* Origin: Fidonet!, isn't that something from the past? (2:280/5006.4)

On 12/15/2017 11:34 AM, Michiel van der Vlist -> Kees van Eeten wrote:
MvdV> Hello Kees,

MvdV> On Friday December 15 2017 11:20, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV>>> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV>>> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV>>> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV>>> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV>>> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV>>> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV>>> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV>>> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV>>> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV>>> Ukrainian: З новим роком

It looks exellent on a message reader supporting UTF8, but I still
cannot read it. ;)

It renders properly here as well, but I still cannot read it.;)

Selamat hari Natal
Selamat tahun baru

--

De Groeten,
Kees

---
* Origin: Fidonet!, isn't that something from the past? (2:280/5006.4)

Hello Nicholas!

17 Dec 17 11:05, you wrote to me:

Jammntpd/Smapinntpd care. It complains that xlat does not support
type 4. If you stretch the test condition, it is as lenient as Golded.
I.E. it can make a usefull mess of it.

My version doesn't. ;)

What, complain about the level 4, or produce a usefull mess.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Kees,

On Sunday December 17 2017 15:00, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> A relevant question is "how much software actually NEEDS the
MvdV>> level parameter to do its job?". Golded does not seem to care
MvdV>> about the level parameter on incoming messages. I see no
MvdV>> difference in behaviour between messages with "UTF-8 2" and
MvdV>> "UTF-8 4".

Jammntpd/Smapinntpd care. It complains that xlat does not support
type 4.

That is not an answer to the question. The question was not if there is software that does not support level 4, I know that such software exists. The question was if there is software that actually NEEDS the level parameter for processing.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Kees,

On Sunday December 17 2017 14:43, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Not bad considering that most console implementations only
MvdV>> support a limited subset of the Universal Character Set.

Well I think it should either work or not alt all,

That is too much to ask. The Universal Character Set is too large to expect applications to support it fully. No application does AFAIK. It would be a total waste of resources too. No user uses all of it. When browsing sites with exotioc languages it is quit common to get a pop-up window that tells you you must load and install support for language xyzzy.

Well in theory you may be right, in practice the implementations in
Golded and jamnntpd use translation tables that only go to level 2.

I do not know about jammnntp, but it cerainly ois not so for Golded. Golded supports level 2 to level 4 tramslation. Her is my translation table from CP850 (level 2) to UTF-8 level 4)


=== Cut ===
; file 850_utf8.chs
;
; This file is a charset conversion module in text form.
;
; This module Converts IBM CP850 characters to UTF-8 characters.
;
; By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555
;
; This is a modified version that translates the currency symbol € (Alt 207) ; (hex CF) into the Euro sign.
;
; Format: ID, version, level,
; from charset, to charset,
; 128 entries: first, second and optional third byte
; "END"
; Lines beginning with a ";" or a ";" after the entries are comments
;
;
; cedilla = , ; dieresis = .. ; acute = '
; grave = ` ; circumflex = ^ ; ring = o
; tilde = ~ ; caron = v
; All of these are above the character, apart from the cedilla which is below. ;
; \ is the escape character: \0 means decimal zero,
; \dnnn where nnn is a decimal number is the ordinal value of the character
; \xnn where nn is a hexadecimal number
; e.g.: \d32 is the ASCII space character
; Two \\ is the character "\" itself.
;
4 ; ID number
1 ; version number
;
2 4 ; level number
;
CP850 ; from set
UTF-8 ; to set
; ; dec hx description
;
\xC3 \x87 ; 128 80 latin capital letter c with cedilla
\xC3 \xBC ; 129 81 latin small letter u with diaeresis
\xC3 \xA9 ; 130 82 latin small letter e with acute
\xC3 \xA2 ; 131 83 latin small letter a with circumflex
\xC3 \xA4 ; 132 84 latin small letter a with diaeresis
\xC3 \xA0 ; 133 85 latin small letter a with grave
\xC3 \xA5 ; 134 86 latin small letter a with ring above
\xC3 \xA7 ; 135 87 latin small letter c with cedilla
\xC3 \xAA ; 136 88 latin small letter e with circumflex
\xC3 \xAB ; 137 89 latin small letter e with diaeresis
\xC3 \xA8 ; 138 8A latin small letter e with grave
\xC3 \xAF ; 139 8B latin small letter i with diaeresis
\xC3 \xAE ; 140 8C latin small letter i with circumflex
\xC3 \xAC ; 141 8D latin small letter i with grave
\xC3 \x84 ; 142 8E latin capital letter a with diaeresis
\xC3 \x85 ; 143 8F latin capital letter a with ring above
\xC3 \x89 ; 144 90 latin capital letter e with acute
\xC3 \xA6 ; 145 91 latin small letter ae
\xC3 \x86 ; 146 92 latin capital letter ae
\xC3 \xB4 ; 147 93 latin small letter o with circumflex
\xC3 \xB6 ; 148 94 latin small letter o with diaeresis
\xC3 \xB2 ; 149 95 latin small letter o with grave
\xC3 \xBB ; 150 96 latin small letter u with circumflex
\xC3 \xB9 ; 151 97 latin small letter u with grave
\xC3 \xBF ; 152 98 latin small letter y with diaeresis
\xC3 \x96 ; 153 99 latin capital letter o with diaeresis
\xC3 \x9C ; 154 9A latin capital letter u with diaeresis
\xC3 \xB8 ; 155 9B latin small letter o with stroke
\xC2 \xA3 ; 156 9C pound sign
\xC3 \x98 ; 157 9D latin capital letter o with stroke
\xC3 \x97 ; 158 9E multiplication sign
\xC6 \x92 ; 159 9F dutch guilder sign (ibm437 159) (f with hook)
\xC3 \xA1 ; 160 A0 latin small letter a with acute
\xC3 \xAD ; 161 A1 latin small letter i with acute
\xC3 \xB3 ; 162 A2 latin small letter o with acute
\xC3 \xBA ; 163 A3 latin small letter u with acute
\xC3 \xB1 ; 164 A4 latin small letter n with tilde
\xC3 \x91 ; 165 A5 latin capital letter n with tilde
\xC2 \xB8 ; 166 A6 feminine ordinal indicator
\xC2 \xBA ; 167 A7 masculine ordinal indicator
\xC2 \xBF ; 168 A8 inverted question mark
\xC2 \xAE ; 169 A9 registered sign
\xC2 \xAC ; 170 AA not sign
\xC2 \xBD ; 171 AB vulgar fraction one half
\xC2 \xBC ; 172 AC vulgar fraction one quarter
\xC2 \xA1 ; 173 AD inverted exclamation mark
\xC2 \xAB ; 174 AE left-pointing double angle quotation mark
\xC2 \xBB ; 175 AF right-pointing double angle quotation mark
\xE2 \x96 \x91 ; 176 B0 light shade
\xE2 \x96 \x92 ; 177 B1 medium shade
\xE2 \x96 \x93 ; 178 B2 dark shade
\xE2 \x94 \x82 ; 179 B3 box drawings light vertical
\xE2 \x94 \xA4 ; 180 B4 box drawings light vertical and left
\xC3 \x81 ; 181 B5 latin capital letter a with acute
\xC3 \x82 ; 182 B6 latin capital letter a with circumflex
\xC3 \x80 ; 183 B7 latin capital letter a with grave
\xC2 \xA9 ; 184 B8 copyright sign
\xE2 \x95 \xA3 ; 185 B9 box drawings heavy vertical and left
\xE2 \x95 \x91 ; 186 BA box drawings heavy vertical
\xE2 \x95 \x97 ; 187 BB box drawings heavy down and left
\xE2 \x95 \x9D ; 188 BC box drawings heavy up and left
\xC2 \xA2 ; 189 BD cent sign
\xC2 \xA5 ; 190 BE yen sign
\xE2 \x94 \x90 ; 191 BF box drawings light down and left
\xE2 \x94 \x94 ; 192 C0 box drawings light up and right
\xE2 \x94 \xB4 ; 193 C1 box drawings light up and horizontal
\xE2 \x94 \xAC ; 194 C2 box drawings light down and horizontal
\xE2 \x94 \x9C ; 195 C3 box drawings light vertical and right
\xE2 \x94 \x80 ; 196 C4 box drawings light horizontal
\xE2 \x94 \xBC ; 197 C5 box drawings light vertical and horizontal
\xC3 \xA3 ; 198 C6 latin small letter a with tilde
\xC3 \x83 ; 199 C7 latin capital letter a with tilde
\xE2 \x95 \x9A ; 200 C8 box drawings heavy up and right
\xE2 \x95 \x94 ; 201 C9 box drawings heavy down and right
\xE2 \x95 \xA9 ; 202 CA box drawings heavy up and horizontal
\xE2 \x95 \xA6 ; 203 CB box drawings heavy down and horizontal
\xE2 \x95 \xA0 ; 204 CC box drawings heavy vertical and right
\xE2 \x95 \x90 ; 205 CD box drawings heavy horizontal
\xE2 \x95 \xAC ; 206 CE box drawings heavy vertical and horizontal
\xE2 \x82 \xAC ; 207 CF Euro sign. (was currency sign xC2 xA4)
\xC3 \xB0 ; 208 D0 latin small letter eth (icelandic)
\xC3 \x90 ; 209 D1 latin capital letter eth (icelandic)
\xC3 \x8A ; 210 D2 latin capital letter e with circumflex
\xC3 \x8B ; 211 D3 latin capital letter e with diaeresis
\xC3 \x88 ; 212 D4 latin capital letter e with grave
\xC4 \xB1 ; 213 D5 latin small letter i dotless
\xC3 \x8D ; 214 D6 latin capital letter i with acute
\xC3 \x8E ; 215 D7 latin capital letter i with circumflex
\xC3 \x8F ; 216 D8 latin capital letter i with diaeresis
\xE2 \x94 \x98 ; 217 D9 box drawings light up and left
\xE2 \x94 \x8C ; 218 DA box drawings light down and right
\xE2 \x96 \x88 ; 219 DB full block
\xE2 \x96 \x84 ; 220 DC lower half block
\xC2 \xA6 ; 221 DD broken bar
\xC3 \x8C ; 222 DE latin capital letter i with grave
\xE2 \x96 \x80 ; 223 DF upper half block
\xC3 \x93 ; 224 E0 latin capital letter o with acute
\xC3 \x9F ; 225 E1 latin small letter sharp s (german)
\xC3 \x94 ; 226 E2 latin capital letter o with circumflex
\xC3 \x92 ; 227 E3 latin capital letter o with grave
\xC3 \xB5 ; 228 E4 latin small letter o with tilde
\xC3 \x95 ; 229 E5 latin capital letter o with tilde
\xC2 \xB5 ; 230 E6 greek small letter mu
\xC3 \x9E ; 231 E7 latin capital letter thorn (icelandic)
\xC3 \xBE ; 232 E8 latin small letter thorn (icelandic)
\xC3 \x9A ; 233 E9 latin capital letter u with acute
\xC3 \x9B ; 234 EA latin capital letter u with circumflex
\xC3 \x99 ; 235 EB latin capital letter u with grave
\xC3 \xBD ; 236 EC latin small letter y with acute
\xC3 \x9D ; 237 ED latin capital letter y with acute
\xC3 \x8F ; 238 EE em dash
\xC2 \xB4 ; 239 EF acute accent
\xC2 \xAD ; 240 F0 soft hyphen
\xC2 \xB1 ; 241 F1 plus-minus sign
\xE2 \x80 \x97 ; 242 F2 left right double arrow
\xC2 \xBE ; 243 F3 vulgar fraction three quarters
\xC4 \xB3 ; 244 F4 Dutch ij (was pilcrow sign)
\xC2 \xA7 ; 245 F5 section sign
\xC3 \xB7 ; 246 F6 division sign
\xC2 \xB8 ; 247 F7 ogonek
\xC2 \xB0 ; 248 F8 degree sign
\xC2 \xA8 ; 249 F9 diaeresis
\xC2 \xB7 ; 250 FA middle dot
\xC2 \xB9 ; 251 FB superscript one
\xC2 \xB3 ; 252 FC superscript three
\xC2 \xB2 ; 253 FD superscript two
\xE2 \x96 \xA0 ; 254 FE black square
\xC2 \xA0 ; 255 FF no-break space
END
=== Cut ===

There is no support for level 4,

There is limited support for level 4. See above. One byte is translated into two or three bytes.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Kees,

On Sunday December 17 2017 18:57, you wrote to me:

Selamat hari Natal
Selamat tahun baru

It renders properly, but I cannot read it.;)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

18 Dec 17 00:29, you wrote to me:

MvdV> On Sunday December 17 2017 18:57, you wrote to me:

Selamat hari Natal
Selamat tahun baru

MvdV> It renders properly, but I cannot read it.;)

I suppose you can read it, but not understand it. ;)

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Kees,

On Monday December 18 2017 11:07, you wrote to me:

Selamat hari Natal
Selamat tahun baru

MvdV>> It renders properly, but I cannot read it.;)

I suppose you can read it, but not understand it. ;)

I'd say it depends on the definition of "read". I can read abd recognise the individual letters, but I can bon "read" the words. For that I need a translator.

But I suspect the same goes for you and Polish.

BTW, I have added half of your suggestion to the list.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
Basque: Urte Berri On!
Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
Bohemian: Vesele Vanoce
Brazilian: Feliz Ano Novo
Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
Catalan: Feliç any nou!
Cantonese: 新年快樂
Croatian: Sretan Bozic
Czech: Šťastný Nový Rok
Danish: Godt Nytår
Dutch: Gelukkig Nieuwjaar!
English: Happy New Year
Español: Próspero Año Nuevo
Esperanto: Gajan Kristnaskon
Estonian: Head uut aastat
Finnish: Onnellista Uutta Vuotta
Flemish: Gelukkig nieuw jaar
French: Bonne Année!
Frisian: Seine yn it Nije Jier!
Gaelic: Shona Nua bliana
Galician: Ano Novo
German: Glückliches Neues Jahr!
Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
Hindi: Shub Naya Baras
Hungarian: Boldog Új Évet
Icelandic: Hamingjusamur Nýtt Ár
Indonesian: Selamat tahun baru
Italian: Felice Anno Nuovo
Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
Latin: Annum Nuovo!
Nederlands: Gelukkig nieuwjaar
Norwegian: Godt Nyttår
Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
Portuguese: Feliz Ano Novo
Rumanian: Anul Nou Fericit
Russian: С новым годом
Spanish: Próspero Año Nuevo
Swahili: Mwaka Mpyaº
Swedish: Gott Nytt År
Turkish: Kutlu Olsun
Ukrainian: З новим роком
Zulu: Jabulela unyaka omusha
--- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello All,

Monday December 18 2017 13:15, I wrote to you:

@MSGID: 2:280/5555 a37b1590
@PID: FTools-W32 2.0.1.4
@TZUTC: 0100
@CHRS: UTF-8
Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
Basque: Urte Berri On!

Golded does not seem to care when importing messages. It seems to act only on the "UTF-8" part and to ignore the level parameter.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

@CHRS: UTF-8
Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
Basque: Urte Berri On!

MvdV> Golded does not seem to care when importing messages. It seems to act
MvdV> only on the "UTF-8" part and to ignore the level parameter.

Jamnntpd doesn't care about the level either:

X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: CHRS: UTF-8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: CHRS: UTF-8 4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

So, we can get rid of CHRS kludge and start using CHARSET kludge. ;-)

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
* Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)

Hello Michiel!

18 Dec 17 12:56, you wrote to me:

I suppose you can read it, but not understand it. ;)

MvdV> I'd say it depends on the definition of "read". I can read abd recognise
MvdV> the individual letters, but I can bon "read" the words. For that I need
MvdV> a translator.

MvdV> But I suspect the same goes for you and Polish.

And Hungarian and what the Fins speak when not using Swedish.

MvdV> BTW, I have added half of your suggestion to the list.

Nice, the other is indeed relevant to the season, but not to your list.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

On 12/18/2017 12:15 PM, Michiel van der Vlist -> All wrote:
MvdV> Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
MvdV> Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
MvdV> Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
MvdV> Basque: Urte Berri On!
MvdV> Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
MvdV> Bohemian: Vesele Vanoce
MvdV> Brazilian: Feliz Ano Novo
MvdV> Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
MvdV> Catalan: Feliç any nou!
MvdV> Cantonese: 新年快樂
MvdV> Croatian: Sretan Bozic
MvdV> Czech: Šťastný Nový Rok
MvdV> Danish: Godt Nytår
MvdV> Dutch: Gelukkig Nieuwjaar!
MvdV> English: Happy New Year
MvdV> Español: Próspero Año Nuevo
MvdV> Esperanto: Gajan Kristnaskon
MvdV> Estonian: Head uut aastat
MvdV> Finnish: Onnellista Uutta Vuotta
MvdV> Flemish: Gelukkig nieuw jaar
MvdV> French: Bonne Année!
MvdV> Frisian: Seine yn it Nije Jier!
MvdV> Gaelic: Shona Nua bliana
MvdV> Galician: Ano Novo
MvdV> German: Glückliches Neues Jahr!
MvdV> Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
MvdV> Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
MvdV> Hindi: Shub Naya Baras
MvdV> Hungarian: Boldog Új Évet
MvdV> Icelandic: Hamingjusamur Nýtt Ár
MvdV> Indonesian: Selamat tahun baru
MvdV> Italian: Felice Anno Nuovo
MvdV> Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
MvdV> Latin: Annum Nuovo!
MvdV> Nederlands: Gelukkig nieuwjaar
MvdV> Norwegian: Godt Nyttår
MvdV> Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
MvdV> Portuguese: Feliz Ano Novo
MvdV> Rumanian: Anul Nou Fericit
MvdV> Russian: С новым годом
MvdV> Spanish: Próspero Año Nuevo
MvdV> Swahili: Mwaka Mpyaº
MvdV> Swedish: Gott Nytt År
MvdV> Turkish: Kutlu Olsun
MvdV> Ukrainian: З новим роком
MvdV> Zulu: Jabulela unyaka omusha
MvdV> --- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
MvdV> * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Well it does not seem to make a difference.
It is just as unreadable in Golded as it was and
Smapinntpd / Thunderbird as well as my Python reader
do not care.
Amharish: መ�ካም አዲስ ዓመት
Birmese: ပျော်ရွှင်ဖွယ်နှစ်သစ် Gujarati: સાલ મુબારક
Kannada: ಹೊಸ ವರ�ಷದ ಶುಭಾಶಯ
Khmer: រីករាយ​ឆ្នាំ​ថ្មី
Lao: ສະ​ບາ�​ດີ​ປີ​ໃຫມ່
Malayalan: പുതുവത�സരാശംസകൾ
Nepalese: नयाँ बर�षको शुभकामना
Pashto: نوی کال مو مبارک شه
Persian: سال نو مبارک
Punjabi: ਨਵਾ ਸਾਲ ਮੁਬਾਰਕ
Sindhi: نئون سال مبارڪ
Sinhata: සුභ නව වසරක්
Tamil: புத�தாண�டு வாழ�த�துக�கள�

Tegulu: నూతన సంవత�సర శుభాకాంక�షలు Thai: สวัสดีปีใหม่
Urdu: نیا سال مبارک ہو

These I cannot read, so I have to trust Google translate.
Surprisingly Birmese does not render in Thunderbird.
The Thai has some characters that should be joined together.
Both render o.k. in Firefox.

Gelukkig nieuw jaar, maar dat duurt nog even.

Kees

---
* Origin: Fidonet!, isn't that something from the past? (2:280/5003.4)

Amharish: መ�ካም አዲስ ዓመት
Birmese: ပျော်ရွှင်ဖွယ်နှစ်သစ် Gujarati: સાલ મુબારક
Kannada: ಹೊಸ ವರ�ಷದ ಶುಭಾಶಯ
Khmer: រីករាយ​ឆ្នាំ​ថ្មី
Lao: ສະ​ບາ�​ດີ​ປີ​ໃຫມ່
Malayalan: പുതുവത�സരാശംസകൾ
Nepalese: नयाँ बर�षको शुभकामना Pashto: نوی کال مو مبارک شه
Persian: سال نو مبارک
Punjabi: ਨਵਾ ਸਾਲ ਮੁਬਾਰਕ
Sindhi: نئون سال مبارڪ
Sinhata: සුභ නව වසරක්
Tamil: புத�தாண�டு வாழ�த�துக�கள�
Tegulu: నూతన సంవత�సర శుభాకాంక�షలు
Thai: สวัสดีปีใหม่
Urdu: نیا سال مبارک ہو

These I cannot read, so I have to trust Google translate.
Surprisingly Birmese does not render in Thunderbird.
The Thai has some characters that should be joined together.
Both render o.k. in Firefox.

The above must be caused by old software. Here on a different
box, both Birmese and Thai render properly.

Kees

---
* Origin: Fidonet!, isn't that something from the past? (2:280/5006.4)

Hello Kees,

On Sun Dec 17 2017 19:39:34, Kees van Eeten wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Jammntpd/Smapinntpd care. It complains that xlat does not
support type 4. If you stretch the test condition, it is as
lenient as Golded. I.E. it can make a usefull mess of it.

My version doesn't. ;)

What, complain about the level 4, or produce a usefull mess.

Neither, since you added another before I could answer.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Michiel,

On Mon Dec 18 2017 13:15:20, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:

Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます

I just wanted to quote the neatest looking one. Cantonese wasn't bad, either. ;)

Still looks mostly like garbage in Golded, but once quoted in nano everything looks fine. And no, makes no difference without the level parameter.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

On Monday December 18 2017 21:16, you wrote to me:

Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます

I just wanted to quote the neatest looking one. Cantonese wasn't bad, either. ;)

Neat? If you say so, For me it is just Japanese. But as far as I can judge, it renders OK in Winvi.

Still looks mostly like garbage in Golded, but once quoted in nano everything looks fine.

Nano has support for Japanese? Impressive. The Win XP CLI does not support it. Just a row of rectangles.

And no, makes no difference without the level parameter.

OK...

... И я также считаю, что Альберт Хейн должен быть открыт в День подарков.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

On Wed Dec 20 2017 16:46:40, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます

Nano has support for Japanese? Impressive. The Win XP CLI does not
support it. Just a row of rectangles.

I'm using nano-2.9.1 at the moment, and yes, even after the 3rd or 4th time quoting it, it still looks like Japanese. ;)

... И я также считаю, что Альберт Хейн должен быть открыт в День подарков.

Is Albert Hain a store of some sort? Why would he be open on Boxing day? Or did google translate fail me?

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

On Wednesday December 20 2017 21:52, you wrote to me:

Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます

Nano has support for Japanese? Impressive. The Win XP CLI does
not support it. Just a row of rectangles.

I'm using nano-2.9.1 at the moment, and yes, even after the 3rd or 4th time quoting it, it still looks like Japanese. ;)

So I will quote it one more time. ;-)

... И я также считаю, что Альберт Хейн должен
быть открыт в День подарков.

Is Albert Hain a store of some sort?

Albert Heijn. Note that I wrote the letter between the 'e' and the 'n' as the Dutch ligature 'ij'. When I learned to write, the 'ij' was the letter between 'x' and 'z' in the Dutch alfabet. Old (<1960) Dutch typewriters had a dedicated key for it.

Nowadays the 'ij' has been replaced bij the two letter combination 'ij'. Trying to revive it is a hobby horse of mine,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph)

And yes, Albert Heijn is a major super market here. The market leader in fact.

www.ah.nl

Why would he be open on Boxing day?

So that I can buy beer and other stuff of course. ;-)

Or did google translate fail me?

Only in regard to the spelling of "Heijn".

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

;-)

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)

Arabic: سنة جديدة سعيدة
Argentine: Feliz Año Nuevo
Armenian: Շնորհավոր Նոր տարի
Basque: Urte Berri On!
Bengali: শুভ নতুন বছর
Bohemian: Vesele Vanoce
Brazilian: Feliz Ano Novo
Bulgarian: Честита Нова година
Catalan: Feliç any nou!
Cantonese: 新年快樂
Croatian: Sretan Bozic
Czech: Šťastný Nový Rok
Danish: Godt Nytår
Dutch: Gelukkig Nieuwjaar!
English: Happy New Year
Español: Próspero Año Nuevo
Esperanto: Gajan Kristnaskon
Estonian: Head uut aastat
Finnish: Onnellista Uutta Vuotta
Flemish: Gelukkig nieuw jaar
French: Bonne Année!
Frisian: Seine yn it Nije Jier!
Gaelic: Shona Nua bliana
Galician: Ano Novo
German: Glückliches Neues Jahr!
Greek: Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος
Hebrew: שנה טובה ומבורכת
Hindi: Shub Naya Baras
Hungarian: Boldog Új Évet
Icelandic: Hamingjusamur Nýtt Ár
Indonesian: Selamat tahun baru
Italian: Felice Anno Nuovo
Japanese: 明けましておめでとうございます
Latin: Annum Nuovo!
Nederlands: Gelukkig nieuwjaar
Norwegian: Godt Nyttår
Polish: Szczęśliwego nowego roku
Portuguese: Feliz Ano Novo
Rumanian: Anul Nou Fericit
Russian: С новым годом
Spanish: Próspero Año Nuevo
Swahili: Mwaka Mpyaº
Swedish: Gott Nytt År
Turkish: Kutlu Olsun
Ukrainian: З новим роком
Zulu: Jabulela unyaka omusha
--- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

On Thu Dec 21 2017 14:08:24, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Nowadays the 'ij' has been replaced bij the two letter combination
'ij'. Trying to revive it is a hobby horse of mine,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph)

Ah yes, same as what you use in your origin line at times.

And yes, Albert Heijn is a major super market here. The market leader
in fact.

That explains it. All I seemed to pull up on him was that he died. I didn't dig into the stories or find out who he actually was or that he started a super market chain, though).

Why would he be open on Boxing day?

So that I can buy beer and other stuff of course. ;-)

You could always stock up before Christmas, too!

I think everything here is open on Boxing day. ;)

Or did google translate fail me?

Only in regard to the spelling of "Heijn".

Thank you for the clarification.

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

Kinda fit the end of the message on that one, with my confusion and all. ;)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

On Thursday December 21 2017 17:02, you wrote to me:

Nowadays the 'ij' has been replaced bij the two letter
combination 'ij'. Trying to revive it is a hobby horse of mine,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph)

Ah yes, same as what you use in your origin line at times.

Indeed, that is the one.

Thank you for the clarification.

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

Kinda fit the end of the message on that one, with my confusion and
all. ;)

It seems to be cleared up now. ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)