• old dutch

    From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Kees van Eeten on Sun Nov 27 21:24:36 2016
    -={ 2016-11-27 21:24:36.398596157+00:00 }=-

    Hey Kees!

    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language there indeed is an old Dutch BUT most of the writings of that time were mostly latin which isn't all that surprising.

    I did run across these interesting tidbits;

    - oldest sentence has been identified as Dutch: Maltho thi afrio lito ("I say to you, I free you,
    serf") used to free a serf.

    - the most famous Old Dutch sentence is probably Hebban olla vogala nestas hagunnan, hinase hic enda tu, wat unbidan we nu ("All birds have started making nests, except me and you, what are we waiting for")

    Too few tidbits to make a random tagline thingy out of and also is lacking as far as utf-8 characters are concerned. Oh well, I tried.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Man deþ swa he byþ þonne he mot swa he wile.
    A man acts what he is when he may do what he will.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 27 23:12:34 2016
    Hello Maurice!

    27 Nov 16 21:24, you wrote to me:

    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language there indeed is an old Dutch BUT most of the writings of that time were mostly latin which isn't all that surprising.

    I did run across these interesting tidbits;

    - oldest sentence has been identified as Dutch: Maltho thi afrio lito ("I say to you, I free you, serf") used to free a serf.

    - the most famous Old Dutch sentence is probably Hebban olla vogala nestas hagunnan, hinase hic enda tu, wat unbidan we nu ("All birds have started making nests, except me and you, what are we waiting for")

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oudnederlands

    I now live in one of the regions where Olddutch was not spoken, apart from
    the fact that only fish lived here. So major conversation would be something
    like blub, blub.

    Too few tidbits to make a random tagline thingy out of and also is
    lacking
    as far as utf-8 characters are concerned. Oh well, I tried.

    Indeed very few texts have survided from those time (500 - 1150 AD)

    Text from those times can probably only be written in runes or in latin
    script. Those who wrote it down in latinscript were also versed in latin.

    Found this as wel:

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingveoonse_talen

    Here the Nothsea Germanlanguages are mentioned and a connection between
    Oldfisian, Oldenglish and oldsaxon. With special ties between
    Oldfrisian and Oldenglish, but I beleive you mentioned the latter already.

    All very interesting if one is interested in languages, unfortunale I am
    not one of them.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Kees van Eeten on Mon Nov 28 01:22:32 2016
    -={ 2016-11-28 02:22:32.657422495+01:00 }=-

    Hey Kees!

    major conversation would be something like blub, blub.

    Good thing Gutenberg wasn't from there.

    I beleive you mentioned the latter already.

    Yes. I thought there was a connection there somewhere.

    All very interesting if one is interested in languages

    I find it interesting despite the fact that none of them have anything to do with me. I speak English but I am not English and never have been as far as I am know. Same with Dutch for that matter but I don't mind learning new things even if I never use it.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wa þære þeode þe hæfð ælðeodigne cyng.
    Woe will come to the nation which has a foreign king.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 28 12:05:00 2016
    Hello Maurice!

    28 Nov 16 01:22, you wrote to me:

    I find it interesting despite the fact that none of them have anything to do with me. I speak English but I am not English and never have been as far as I am know. Same with Dutch for that matter but I don't mind learning new things even if I never use it.

    To get back to the purpose of this echo, I would rather become fluent in
    the Python language, that supports UTF natively.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Kees van Eeten on Mon Nov 28 11:52:28 2016
    -={ 2016-11-28 12:52:28.437003991+01:00 }=-

    Hey Kees!

    I would rather become fluent in the Python language, that
    supports UTF natively.

    Understood. Personally I have been using bash scripts with assorted other tools (sed, grep, fold) which are far more lean and mean than python, or perl for that matter, which also supports utf-8 and has been in production far longer than python. So far all I've required perl for is it's pack function for converting pkt and msg headers to binary for nodes that subscribe to that mode of operations for messaging. Internally everything messaging here is utf-8 text based and has been since I first started focussing on making utf-8 work for me locally. The same could easily be done with python but to be honest I've been hoping to get rid of perl and NOT replace it with something else just as overbloated and essentially unwanted. I can't see myself using it ever, nevermind for fidonet capable utf-8 messaging. What for?

    Since I first encountered python AGES ago I have never found anything appealing about it that I can't achieve with far less resources. Howver I can see it's appeal to MS type hackers given their chosen platform which is most definetly developmentally crippled. Unfortunetly I see that same attitude spreading to linux via lame distributions such as Ubuntu. :::sigh:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Sorg ond slæp somod ætgædre earmne anhogan oft gebindað.
    Sorrow and sleep both together often bind the wretched solitary person.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 28 13:44:44 2016
    Hello Maurice!

    28 Nov 16 11:52, you wrote to me:

    Understood. Personally I have been using bash scripts with assorted other tools (sed, grep, fold) which are far more lean and mean than python, or perl for that matter, which also supports utf-8 and has been in production far longer than python. So far all I've required perl for is it's pack function for converting pkt and msg headers to binary for nodes that subscribe to that mode of operations for messaging. Internally everything messaging here is utf-8 text based and has been since I first started focussing on making utf-8 work for me locally. The same could easily be done with python but to be honest I've been hoping to get rid of perl and NOT replace it with something else just as overbloated and essentially unwanted. I can't see myself using it ever, nevermind for fidonet capable utf-8 messaging. What for?

    I agree with you, that much can be done with Bash and the other Unix shell
    tools. They are my preferred tools for any idea I get as well.

    Since I first encountered python AGES ago I have never found anything appealing about it that I can't achieve with far less resources. Howver I can see it's appeal to MS type hackers given their chosen platform which is most definetly developmentally crippled. Unfortunetly I see that same attitude spreading to linux via lame distributions such as Ubuntu. :::sigh:::

    I have seen you relating Python to MS type users before. However if I look
    into the history and use of Python and where Guido van Rossum started the
    development of the language, I do not see the relation.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Kees van Eeten on Mon Nov 28 13:39:12 2016
    -={ 2016-11-28 14:39:12.375549160+01:00 }=-

    Hey Kees!

    They are my preferred tools for any idea I get as well.

    They are extremely handy for testing ideas. I doubt utf-8 would have gotten any attention here had it not been true to that cause. It took some tweaking at first.

    if I look into the history and use of Python

    That I wouldn't know much about but it wouldn't surprise me that the original intention was lost along the way. For example Larry Wall's original intention for perl was for creating a tool to submit his resume around the network on Solaris machines. It was others who ran with it so that it's intent has VASTLY ballooned from that point to it's overbloated condition found today. I cannot say what Guido van Rossum originally intended for python but I can and do point out how it is being used today and my observation has and is that it's appealing to MS type hackers more than likely due to the lack of suitable development tools in WindowsLand and has spread lately to include Ubuntu types as well as the Android people. Last I checked the Android people cited python apps only second to java based ones which explains the lack of Android within my sphere of influence. I don't use java either and never have and never likely will as it appears to be on the abandonware road.

    That is my story and I am sticking to it. ;-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Gif ðu wille godne hlisan habban, ne fægna ðu nanes yfeles.
    If you want to have a good reputation, don't rejoice in any evil.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 28 15:38:02 2016
    Hello Maurice!

    28 Nov 16 13:39, you wrote to me:

    than likely due to the lack of suitable development tools in WindowsLand and has spread lately to include Ubuntu types as well as the Android people. Last I checked the Android people cited python apps only second to java based ones which explains the lack of Android within my sphere of influence. I don't use java either and never have and never likely will as it appears to be on the abandonware road.

    I think Van Russum still sticks to his principles.

    That is my story and I am sticking to it. ;-)

    That's o.k.with me.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Kees van Eeten on Mon Nov 28 15:48:25 2016
    -={ 2016-11-28 16:48:25.294571472+01:00 }=-

    Hey Kees!

    I think Van Russum still sticks to his principles.

    That I wouldn't know anything about. As for utf-8 in fidonet messaging, I do know that I have never needed python to make it work. Also any further thoughts/observations I have about python is as I've already stated and has nothing to do with any individual but instead groups such as the Android people who have stated their preferences python being number two. The MS types I am guessing and my best guess is the lack of development tools on their chosen platform. I doubt the standard windows user actually knows or cares.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Ne mæg werig mod wyrde wiðstondan, ne se hreo hyge helpe gefremman.
    A weary mind cannot withstand fate, nor a sad heart offer help.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)