Hello All,


Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

Cheers, Michiel


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi,

On 2014-04-16 11:23:36, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:
about: "Test":

MvdV> Hello All,


MvdV> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

MvdV> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

It's all giberish to me... ;)

In Golded under Windows XP.

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Wednesday April 16 2014 18:06, you wrote to me:


MvdV>> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV>> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV>> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV>> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV>> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

MvdV>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

It's all giberish to me... ;)

In Golded under Windows XP.

Make a dummy translation table that does nothing. F.e. 850_850.chs.

Add it to Golded.cfg

With control J, select thatnslation from 850 to 850

with control W, write the message to a disk file

Open a new command line window

Select code page 65001

Type <file>

Or open the file in Notepad.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

Now on the linux side...

On 2014-04-16 11:23:36, you wrote to All:

MvdV> Hello All,

The bom is automagically gone...

MvdV> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

Those above look all good...

MvdV> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

These look only partially ok...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Amiga Offline BBS Lisse (2:280/464)

Hi,

On 2014-04-16 20:55:19, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:
about: "Re: Test":

MvdV>> Hello All,

The bom is automagically gone...

At least it wasn't visible in linux golded. I still see it in the quotes on the windows side...

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hi,

On 2014-04-16 18:19:50, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
about: "Test":

It's all giberish to me... ;)

In Golded under Windows XP.

MvdV> Make a dummy translation table that does nothing. F.e. 850_850.chs.

Lucky for me I already had that one in a golded sub directory... Otherwise it would be easier said than done.

MvdV> Add it to Golded.cfg

MvdV> With control J, select thatnslation from 850 to 850

All I can choose is "auto"...?

MvdV> with control W, write the message to a disk file

I used alt-w for control over the file path and name...

MvdV> Open a new command line window

MvdV> Select code page 65001

MvdV> Type <file>

I skipped this, so not to have to find out how to set the code page. ;)

MvdV> Or open the file in Notepad.

I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Wednesday April 16 2014 20:55, you wrote to me:

@MSGID: 2:280/464 534ed270
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 534e4cbe
@PID: GED+LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
@TID: FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
@RFC-X-No-Archive: Yes
@TZUTC: 0200
@CHRS: CP437 2

^^^^^

First thing tat goes wrong. Your message is in UTF-8 but it advertises CP437.

MvdV>> Hello All,

The bom is automagically gone...

It is still there, but you just don't see it in text mode. In debug mode....

Hexdump of message text:

0000 48 69 20 4D 69 63 68 69 65 6C 2C 0D 0D 4E 6F 77 Hi Michiel,..Now 0010 20 6F 6E 20 74 68 65 20 6C 69 6E 75 78 20 73 69 on the linux si 0020 64 65 2E 2E 2E 0D 0D 4F 6E 20 32 30 31 34 2D 30 de.....On 2014-0 0030 34 2D 31 36 20 31 31 3A 32 33 3A 33 36 2C 20 79 4-16 11:23:36, y 0040 6F 75 20 77 72 6F 74 65 20 74 6F 20 41 6C 6C 3A ou wrote to All: 0050 0D 0D 20 4D 76 64 56 3E 20 EF BB BF 48 65 6C 6C .. MvdV> ´╗┐Hell 0060 6F 20 41 6C 6C 2C 0D 0D 54 68 65 20 62 6F 6D 20 o All,..The bom 0070 69 73 20 61 75 74 6F 6D 61 67 69 63 61 6C 6C 79 is automagically 0080 20 67 6F 6E 65 2E 2E 2E 0D 0D 20 4D 76 64 56 3E gone..... MvdV>


MvdV>> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV>> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV>> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV>> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV>> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

Those above look all good...

You actually see the accents, the umlaut and the o-slash?

MvdV>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

These look only partially ok...

You managed to do a strict GIGO because here it stlll looks good...



Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Wednesday April 16 2014 20:59, you wrote to me:

The bom is automagically gone...

At least it wasn't visible in linux golded. I still see it in the
quotes on the windows side...

Odd....

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Wednesday April 16 2014 21:42, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Make a dummy translation table that does nothing. F.e.
MvdV>> 850_850.chs.

Lucky for me I already had that one in a golded sub directory...
Otherwise it would be easier said than done.

I think it comes as IBM_IBM.chs with the standard distribution.

MvdV>> Add it to Golded.cfg

MvdV>> With control J, select translation from 850 to 850

All I can choose is "auto"...?

You have no character translation at all installed?

That explains a few things...

MvdV>> with control W, write the message to a disk file

I used alt-w for control over the file path and name...

Yeah, I think I used that too...

MvdV>> Open a new command line window

MvdV>> Select code page 65001

MvdV>> Type <file>

I skipped this, so not to have to find out how to set the code page.
;)

CHCP 65001

Be aware that many things no longer work with this setting.

What I forgot is that you must set the font to "Lucida Console" or it won't work, you will just see dots for the multy byte characters. I vaguely remember having discussed this before with you...

MvdV>> Or open the file in Notepad.

I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...

You can install it as external editor for Golded by adding this to the config:

EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt r�ze eenhoorns

English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

German: Der Hufschmied w�chst rosa Einh�rner

Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhj�rninger

French: Le mar�chal-ferrant se d�veloppe licornes roses

Russian:

Greek:

Cheers, Michiel

I cannot see if anything is written after "Russian" and "Greek", I probably forgot to install the fontset, or there is a set in between, that does not supports the fonts.

The viewer of my database, that was the cut and paste source of the above has no problems with UTF-8

Actually this message is to test to see if charset UTF-8 is set forr the outgoing traffic.

Kees


--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20130910
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5006.4)

Hello Kees,

On Thursday April 17 2014 00:32, you wrote to me:

@MSGID: 2:280/5006.4 534f0742
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 534e4cbe
@CHRS: LATIN-1 2

^^^^^^^^^

@TZUTC: 0200

Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

So far so good.

Actually this message is to test to see if charset UTF-8 is set forr
the outgoing traffic.

Sorry, no. It is set to Latin-1

But apparently you got the translation right because the accents come across...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Re: Re: Test
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Apr 16 2014 18:06:25

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους

It's all giberish to me... ;)

I can read any language, EXCEPT Greek. Unfortunately it is all Greek to me <G> --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

Hello Joe,

On Wednesday April 16 2014 20:47, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους

It's all giberish to me... ;)

I can read any language, EXCEPT Greek. Unfortunately it is all Greek
to me <G>

Perhaps you can use NOTEPAD as an external editor?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-16 21:39:05, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV>>> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV>>> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV>>> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV>>> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

Those above look all good...

MvdV> You actually see the accents, the umlaut and the o-slash?

Yes.

MvdV>>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые
MvdV>>> единороги

MvdV>>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
MvdV>>> μονόκερους

These look only partially ok...

MvdV> You managed to do a strict GIGO because here it stlll looks good...

I think my current font has a limited charset, and can't display all the utf-8 chars...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Amiga Offline BBS Lisse (2:280/464)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-16 22:14:59, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> Make a dummy translation table that does nothing. F.e.
MvdV>>> 850_850.chs.

Lucky for me I already had that one in a golded sub directory...
Otherwise it would be easier said than done.

MvdV> I think it comes as IBM_IBM.chs with the standard distribution.

I have that too. But it's slightly different, mainly in the comments for the characters.

MvdV>>> Add it to Golded.cfg

MvdV>>> With control J, select translation from 850 to 850

All I can choose is "auto"...?

MvdV> You have no character translation at all installed?

I have set yesterday:

XLATPATH c:\fd\Golded\cfgs\charset\
XLATCHARSET CP850 CP850 850_850.CHS

Before that I got another message with ctrl-j, which said I had no configuration for translation (or words along that line)...

MvdV>>> Open a new command line window

MvdV>>> Select code page 65001

MvdV>>> Type <file>

I skipped this, so not to have to find out how to set the code page.
;)

MvdV> CHCP 65001

MvdV> Be aware that many things no longer work with this setting.

MvdV> What I forgot is that you must set the font to "Lucida Console" or it won't
MvdV> work, you will just see dots for the multy byte characters. I vaguely
MvdV> remember having discussed this before with you...

Maybe... For me it's a _very_ vague memory... ;)

MvdV>>> Or open the file in Notepad.

I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...

MvdV> You can install it as external editor for Golded by adding this to the
MvdV> config:

MvdV> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Amiga Offline BBS Lisse (2:280/464)

Hi Kees,

On 2014-04-17 00:32:56, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

@CHRS: LATIN-1 2

Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt r�ze eenhoorns

English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

German: Der Hufschmied w�chst rosa Einh�rner

Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhj�rninger

French: Le mar�chal-ferrant se d�veloppe licornes roses

These don't look ok in my linux Golded in a putty terminal on a Windows 7 x64 machine, using Liberation Mono as font... ;)

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Amiga Offline BBS Lisse (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 10:25, you wrote to me:

All I can choose is "auto"...?

MvdV>> You have no character translation at all installed?

I have set yesterday:

XLATPATH c:\fd\Golded\cfgs\charset\
XLATCHARSET CP850 CP850 850_850.CHS

Before that I got another message with ctrl-j, which said I had no configuration for translation (or words along that line)...

I think your local charset is set to CP437. So you do not see the 850 to 850 as an option.

Change it to:

XLATCHARSET CP437 CP437 850_850.CHS

and see what happens.

MvdV>>>> Or open the file in Notepad.

I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...

MvdV>> You can install it as external editor for Golded by adding this
MvdV>> to the
MvdV>> config:

MvdV>> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV>> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

You don't actuallly have to use it, even when installed. You get an extra option just below "internal editor" when writing a message. If you do not select that, nothing changes.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 10:22, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>>> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV>>>> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

Those above look all good...

MvdV>> You actually see the accents, the umlaut and the o-slash?

Yes.

Ok, so far so good...

MvdV>>>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV>>>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

These look only partially ok...

Still looking OK here after all the quoting...

MvdV>> You managed to do a strict GIGO because here it stlll looks
MvdV>> good...

I think my current font has a limited charset, and can't display all
the utf-8 chars...

In that case I would not expect you see garbadge, but the "have no glyph" character. Usually a dot in the command line window and a small rectangle in a graphic window.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-17 11:21:31, you wrote to me:

XLATPATH c:\fd\Golded\cfgs\charset\
XLATCHARSET CP850 CP850 850_850.CHS

Before that I got another message with ctrl-j, which said I had no
configuration for translation (or words along that line)...

MvdV> I think your local charset is set to CP437.

Not deliberately. ;)

MvdV> So you do not see the 850 to 850 as an option.

MvdV> Change it to:

MvdV> XLATCHARSET CP437 CP437 850_850.CHS

MvdV> and see what happens.

I'll try that tonight, on XP.

MvdV>>> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV>>> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

MvdV> You don't actuallly have to use it, even when installed. You get an extra
MvdV> option just below "internal editor" when writing a message. If you do not
MvdV> select that, nothing changes.

So why do I need to configure it? The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-17 11:27:10, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>>>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые
MvdV>>>>> единороги

MvdV>>>>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
MvdV>>>>> μονόκερους

These look only partially ok...

MvdV> Still looking OK here after all the quoting...

MvdV>>> You managed to do a strict GIGO because here it stlll looks
MvdV>>> good...

I think my current font has a limited charset, and can't display all
the utf-8 chars...

MvdV> In that case I would not expect you see garbadge, but the "have no glyph"
MvdV> character. Usually a dot in the command line window and a small rectangle
MvdV> in a graphic window.

This is on Linux. And it isn't total garbage. Maybe half of the characters look ok...

Here's a screengrab of how it looks on my screen: http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/bdc9382c

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 12:08, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> I think your local charset is set to CP437.

Not deliberately. ;)

You fly a "CHRS: CP437 2" kludge...

MvdV>> So you do not see the 850 to 850 as an option.

MvdV>> Change it to:

MvdV>> XLATCHARSET CP437 CP437 850_850.CHS

MvdV>> and see what happens.

I'll try that tonight, on XP.

I stay tuned...

MvdV>>>> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV>>>> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

MvdV>> You don't actuallly have to use it, even when installed. You
MvdV>> get an extra option just below "internal editor" when writing a
MvdV>> message. If you do not select that, nothing changes.

So why do I need to configure it?

For the experiment of course.

The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)

It is or the good cause... ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 12:51, you wrote to me:

This is on Linux. And it isn't total garbage. Maybe half of the
characters look ok...

Here's a screengrab of how it looks on my screen: http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/bdc9382c

This is odd. One can expect that no implementation supports the full Uniciode character set. It is just too big and most of it is never needed by most.

But that Uniocoe set is divided in logilac chunks:

http://www.unicode.org/charts/

one would expect suport to go in the same logical chunks. The basic cyrillic characters for example are in the range U+0400 - U+04FF. If any cyrillics is supported one would expect the whole rang U+0400 - U+04FF to be supported.

But that is not what I see on your screendump. I see a mix of some cyrillic and some Latin characters. That "Z" in the thisr position of the Russian sentence is NOT a cyrillic character.

Very odd...

In Linux you have the nano editor that supposedly supports UTF-8. What happens if you write the message to a file and view it with nano?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-17 13:24:32, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> I think your local charset is set to CP437.

Not deliberately. ;)

MvdV> You fly a "CHRS: CP437 2" kludge...

It must be some kind of default...

MvdV>>> So you do not see the 850 to 850 as an option.

MvdV>>> Change it to:

MvdV>>> XLATCHARSET CP437 CP437 850_850.CHS

MvdV>>> and see what happens.

I'll try that tonight, on XP.

MvdV> I stay tuned...

Ok...

MvdV>>>>> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV>>>>> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

MvdV>>> You don't actuallly have to use it, even when installed. You
MvdV>>> get an extra option just below "internal editor" when writing a
MvdV>>> message. If you do not select that, nothing changes.

So why do I need to configure it?

MvdV> For the experiment of course.

The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)

MvdV> It is or the good cause... ;-)

Ok, stay tuned...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-17 13:54:08, you wrote to me:

Here's a screengrab of how it looks on my screen:
http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/bdc9382c

MvdV> This is odd. One can expect that no implementation supports the full
MvdV> Uniciode character set. It is just too big and most of it is never needed
MvdV> by most.

MvdV> But that Uniocoe set is divided in logilac chunks:

MvdV> http://www.unicode.org/charts/

MvdV> one would expect suport to go in the same logical chunks. The basic
MvdV> cyrillic characters for example are in the range U+0400 - U+04FF. If any
MvdV> cyrillics is supported one would expect the whole rang U+0400 - U+04FF to
MvdV> be supported.

MvdV> But that is not what I see on your screendump. I see a mix of some cyrillic
MvdV> and some Latin characters. That "Z" in the thisr position of the Russian
MvdV> sentence is NOT a cyrillic character.

MvdV> Very odd...

MvdV> In Linux you have the nano editor that supposedly supports UTF-8. What
MvdV> happens if you write the message to a file and view it with nano?

In nano and the Midnight Commander viewer and editor it looks ok:

http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/46c6843a

So it seems to be a Golded specific problem. It might have to do with the special patch I applied to the Golded source code, as suggested in the GOLDED area. Because the "plain" version kept on crashing on some utf-8 messages...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: Test
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Joe Delahaye on Thu Apr 17 2014 08:16:14

I can read any language, EXCEPT Greek. Unfortunately it is all
Greek to me <G>

Perhaps you can use NOTEPAD as an external editor?

I dont think it will integrate into SBBS <G> I occassionally use Golded, but it does have its problems accross the network. It is located on this computer while the message base is located on a different one. I think that would be the only way I could use Notepad.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 14:22, you wrote to me:

In nano and the Midnight Commander viewer and editor it looks ok:

http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/46c6843a

That looks all right.

So it seems to be a Golded specific problem.

So it would seem...

It might have to do with the special patch I applied to the Golded
source code, as suggested in the GOLDED area. Because the "plain"
version kept on crashing on some utf-8 messages...

It crashed? Hmmm...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Joe,

On Thursday April 17 2014 09:39, you wrote to me:

Perhaps you can use NOTEPAD as an external editor?

I dont think it will integrate into SBBS <G>

It does not have an option of calling an external editor?

I occassionally use Golded, but it does have its problems accross the network. It is located on this computer while the message base is
located on a different one. I think that would be the only way I
could use Notepad.

Then you are out of luck until UTF-8 support is added to SBBS. Don't hold your breath...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Re: Test
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Joe Delahaye on Thu Apr 17 2014 18:29:43

I dont think it will integrate into SBBS <G>

It does not have an option of calling an external editor?

It has an option to add editors. This editor I am using is not part of Synchronet perse, but an add on. It is a Java Script I think actually. I will try to see if notepad would work.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

Hi,

On 2014-04-17 13:52:41, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:
about: "Re: Test":

MvdV>>>> So you do not see the 850 to 850 as an option.

MvdV>>>> Change it to:

MvdV>>>> XLATCHARSET CP437 CP437 850_850.CHS

MvdV>>>> and see what happens.

I'll try that tonight, on XP.

MvdV>> I stay tuned...

Ok...

Now I have the choice to select CP437 -> CP437. It doesn't however change the output file, compared to the direct saving of the message...

MvdV>>>>>> EDITOR NOTEPAD @file
MvdV>>>>>> EDITORFILE GOLDED.MSG

I don't want an external editor...

MvdV>>>> You don't actuallly have to use it, even when installed. You
MvdV>>>> get an extra option just below "internal editor" when writing a
MvdV>>>> message. If you do not select that, nothing changes.

So why do I need to configure it?

MvdV>> For the experiment of course.

The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)

MvdV>> It is or the good cause... ;-)

Ok, stay tuned...

This is written in the external editor... I'll do another one with the UTF-8 characters in them.

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hi,

On 2014-04-16 11:23:36, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:
about: "Test":

MvdV> @MSGID: 2:280/5555 534e4cbe
MvdV> @TID: FMail-W32-1.68.1.55-B20140410
MvdV> @TZUTC: 0200
MvdV> @CHRS: UTF-8 2
MvdV> Hello All,


MvdV> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

MvdV> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
MvdV> μονόκερους

MvdV> Cheers, Michiel


MvdV> Cheers, Michiel

MvdV> --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
MvdV> * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
MvdV> SEEN-BY: 203/0 249/303 280/464 5003 5555 712/848
MvdV> @PATH: 280/5555 464

This is a reply with the external editor (it's nice to have automatic spell

All the utf characters above look ok in here. Do they still look ok on your end?

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: Native IPv6 connect-able node (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 23:35, you wrote to me:

Ok...

Now I have the choice to select CP437 -> CP437.

So far so good.

It doesn't however change the output file, compared to the direct
saving of the message...

As intended. This exercise was just to demonstrate how to add choices to the menu.

So why do I need to configure it?

MvdV>>> For the experiment of course.

The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)

MvdV>>> It is or the good cause... ;-)

Ok, stay tuned...

This is written in the external editor... I'll do another one with the UTF-8 characters in them.

So far so good.



Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday April 17 2014 23:43, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns

MvdV>> English: The farrier grows pink unicorns

MvdV>> German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner

MvdV>> Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger

MvdV>> French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses

MvdV>> Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

MvdV>> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους

Still looking good. Ik bied één €.

This is a reply with the external editor (it's nice to have automatic spell

You have spell checking? I want to know more about that. Watch the "other channel"...

All the utf characters above look ok in here. Do they still look ok on your end?

Yes, they do. ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-18 00:36:38, you wrote to me:

Now I have the choice to select CP437 -> CP437.

MvdV> So far so good.

It doesn't however change the output file, compared to the direct
saving of the message...

MvdV> As intended. This exercise was just to demonstrate how to add choices to
MvdV> the menu.

There is a large list of possible chs files to add...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-18 00:38:38, you wrote to me:

MvdV> Still looking good. Ik bied één €.

Golded doesn't display this character either. I had to view that "externally" to be able to tell it's a Euro sign...

This is a reply with the external editor (it's nice to have automatic
spell

MvdV> You have spell checking? I want to know more about that. Watch the "other
MvdV> channel"...

I'm watching all kinds of channels, but didn't notice anything so far. ;)

But it's a function (or plugin) of the editor I was using: notepad++
It's freeware, and easy to find...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Friday April 18 2014 09:26, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> As intended. This exercise was just to demonstrate how to add
MvdV>> choices to the menu.

There is a large list of possible chs files to add...

Yes, but as you may have noticed by now, only the ones translating to the

Charsets
Auto
LATIN-1 -> CP850
LATIN-9 -> CP850
UTF-8 -> CP850
CP437 -> CP850
CP1252 -> CP850
DUTCH -> CP850
GERMAN -> CP850
NORWEIG -> CP850
SWEDISH -> CP850
CP866 -> CP850
CP850 -> CP850


I have another config for UTF-8 with characters not viewable in CP850. And


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Friday April 18 2014 09:27, you wrote to me:

On 2014-04-18 00:38:38, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Still looking good. Ik bied één €

Golded doesn't display this character either. I had to view that "externally" to be able to tell it's a Euro sign...

Unfortunately Golded's support for UTF-8 is very limited...

[notepad++}

But it's a function (or plugin) of the editor I was using: notepad++
It's freeware, and easy to find...

Yes, I found severel references. I'll have a look at it when I get a round


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2014-04-18 13:33:19, you wrote to me:

MvdV> [notepad++}

But it's a function (or plugin) of the editor I was using: notepad++
It's freeware, and easy to find...

MvdV> Yes, I found severel references. I'll have a look at it when I get a round

I don't use it a lot for coding purposes though. I tried it for a while, but it crashed on me a couple of times after a few block opperations. But that could have been fixed already, and other than that it's a great editor... I'm now trying out sublime text <http://www.sublimetext.com>, it's not freeware (but you can test it for an unlimited time), it's a bit different, and (still) a bit sparse in functionality, but it feels very fast, and I like how it can edit different lines at the same time, and there is a linux version... There is a good chance it will become my main editor in the future. Currently that is still TSE (= The Semware Editor, which is the successor of Q edit). But that is becomming a bit old, and is hardly maintained anymore...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hey Wilfred!

Not sure what help this will be to you but at least I can answer this;

Do they still look ok on your end?

According to a method I occasionally use that ignores FTN kludges etc. the result shows here as "text/plain; charset=utf-8" and contains a BOM that you quoted from Michiel. Also when viewing it all the characters look good. However I have to wonder how your "CHRS: CP437 2" is going to affect apps that actually take the CHRS kludge seriously. ;-)

I know of at least one web site that posts Fidonet messages that will grunge your message since utf-8 characters are NOT cp437.

Other than the above it is fine.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Wilfred,

On Friday April 18 2014 09:27, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Still looking good. Ik bied één €.

Golded doesn't display this character either. I had to view that "externally" to be able to tell it's a Euro sign...

Something else is not quit right yet however:

@CHRS: CP437 2

You need to set "XLATEXPORT UTF-8" for this area.

For that you need to copy 850_850.CHS to UTF_UTF.CHS anjd add it to the list of translation tables.

And to make it level 4 you have to change the line that defines the level parameter in that tabe; from "2" to "2 4"


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Maurice,

On Friday April 18 2014 16:06, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

WvV>> Do they still look ok on your end?

According to a method I occasionally use that ignores FTN kludges etc.

So please enlighten us about this method. Do you also use an external editor. I recall that you once used nano as external editor.

And what do you use normally?

the result shows here as "text/plain; charset=utf-8" and contains a
BOM that you quoted from Michiel. Also when viewing it all the
characters look good. However I have to wonder how your "CHRS: CP437
2" is going to affect apps that actually take the CHRS kludge
seriously. ;-)

It will mess up things of course. It is obviously one of the things that Wilfred still has to fix.

I know of at least one web site that posts Fidonet messages that will grunge your message since utf-8 characters are NOT cp437.

Which one is that?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: дом тройки (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> So please enlighten us about this method.

Basically it is a bash script that strips only the text part of messages out of raw pkts without any harm to the original raw pkt. The result is each message occupies a line in the output file and contains five null delimited fields; ftn datetime stamp, To, From, subject, and message body with all the kludges etc. For checking formats (utf-8, ascii or any 8-bit character set) I output each line (message) to 'file -b -i' which is the output I cut and pasted to show the result to my reply to Wilfred as confirmation that it is indeed utf-8 and not cp437 which is what his CHRS kludge claimed.

MvdV> Do you also use an external editor.

I am using vim to reply to this message. It isn't external to anything like Golded+ though. Once I exit the editor all the needed FTN stuff will be applied to it and it will be later packed up and sent to the uplink not unlike what normal Fidonet procedures do. For the sending I am currently using binkd but have used ftp in the past following the same procedure. Also could be email attached although I've never actually done that.

MvdV> And what do you use normally?

Currently the above scheme. I have used vim and nano as an external editor with msged which is the same as it would be with Golded+. Then tools like hpt to do the dirty work (tossing, packing etc.). That works okay.

MvdV> It is obviously one of the things that Wilfred still has to fix.

Understood. Been there, done that except without any outside help. I had to figure it out myself.

MvdV> Which one is that?

I'd rather not say other than it uses the CHRS kludge which then is farmed out to Apache's module for iconv. I don't think it confirms the validity of the CHRS kludge.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Saturday April 19 2014 00:41, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> So please enlighten us about this method.

Basically it is a bash script that strips only the text part of
messages out of raw pkts without any harm to the original raw pkt.
The result is each message occupies a line in the output file and
contains five null delimited fields; ftn datetime stamp, To, From, subject, and message body with all the kludges etc.

So you actually reïnvented the wheel and wrote a complete packet viewer? I am impressed...

For checking formats (utf-8, ascii or any 8-bit character set) I
output each line (message) to 'file -b -i' which is the output I cut
and pasted to show the result to my reply to Wilfred as confirmation
that it is indeed utf-8 and not cp437 which is what his CHRS kludge claimed.

I see.

MvdV>> Do you also use an external editor.

I am using vim to reply to this message. It isn't external to
anything like Golded+ though.

It is a text editor, so you have to apply it to some "text".

Once I exit the editor all the needed FTN stuff will be applied to
it and it will be later packed up and sent to the uplink not unlike
what normal Fidonet procedures do.

Impressive, but why reïnvent the wheel? What

MvdV>> And what do you use normally?

Currently the above scheme. I have used vim and nano as an external editor with msged which is the same as it would be with Golded+.

So why did you call it cheating when I revealed that for UTF-8 I use notepad as an external editor for Golded?

MvdV>> It is obviously one of the things that Wilfred still has to fix.

Understood. Been there, done that except without any outside help.
I had to figure it out myself.

So did I, but there is no need for everyone to do that is there? We can share our exprience and let others benfit from it can't we?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> So why did you call it cheating when I revealed that for UTF-8 I
MvdV> use notepad as an external editor for Golded?

Sorry I forgot to respond to the above in the original reply. The reason I call it cheating is that anyone reading a message 'created' by GoldED+ is going to get the impression that it is utf-8 capable when it obviously isn't. If you, and others following this same idea, were to correct the tearline to indicate that an external editor is being deployed to take care of the shortcomings then that would make it more honest and save others much grief if they started using GoldED+ thinking they could read/write utf-8 fidonet messages based on your (and others) postings.

Perhaps 'cheat' is not the correct word but at the moment I cannot come up with a better word for this particular methodology. What do you suggest instead?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Monday April 21 2014 16:21, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> So why did you call it cheating when I revealed that for UTF-8
MvdV>> I use notepad as an external editor for Golded?

Sorry I forgot to respond to the above in the original reply. The
reason I call it cheating is that anyone reading a message 'created'
by GoldED+ is going to get the impression that it is utf-8 capable
when it obviously isn't.

But Golded IS UTF-8 capable. This very message demonsrates it. It is just that in its native configuration, it can handle only a limited subset of the Unicode character set.

To which I may add that /NO/ UTF-8 implementation covers the full Unicode character set. You could not see my Hebrew characters...

If you, and others following this same idea, were to correct the
tearline to indicate that an external editor is being deployed to take care of the shortcomings then that would make it more honest and save others much grief if they started using GoldED+ thinking they could read/write utf-8 fidonet messages based on your (and others) postings.

I think you are overreacting. I am not aware of anyone experiencing "much grief" regarding any misunderstanding of Golded's UTF-8 implementation. I also think you are underrating the audiance. That Goldeds support fot UTF-8 is ver limited is well known. �n fact there is presently no Fidonet reader that has more ative UTF-8 support than Golded. So I doubt enyone is going to be bitterly dissapointed when he/she learns that presently Golded can only handle umlauts and cyrillic in one and the same message when making use of an external editor.

Perhaps 'cheat' is not the correct word but at the moment I cannot
come up with a better word for this particular methodology. What do
you suggest instead?

Kludge.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

What follows was originally a reply to the above subject to your message "MSGID: 2:280/5555 535422dd" which you posted to me. For some strange reason it seems to have dropped off somewhere and I thought I'd try this instead to see if there is a problem at this end. Offhand I don't think so but if there is then this should tell the tale. Apologies in advance if you already got this reply and if you do then please let me know.

MvdV> So you actually reïnvented the wheel and wrote a complete packet
MvdV> viewer?

Nope. I just more or less followed the Unix philosophy as I learned it back in the early 1990's. A healthy part of the philosophy is that unless you think you can do better, use what is presented to you as part of the system. So the reader is simply a shell wrapper to;

tr '\0\r\1' '\n\n@' < $HOME/archives/new_messages.raw | less

Works like a charm and as long as I don't pipe it to 'less -r' then all is revealed including the BOM when you decide to include it. With 'less -r' it would be ignored. Also 'less -r' works great with ansi codes for colourization and the such.

MvdV> It is a text editor, so you have to apply it to some "text".

Yes including utf-8 characters such as the Euro symbol. I can also shell out commands and have the output redirected into a message such as this command which should result in the Euro symbol being inserted below;

command: r ! echo -e "\u20ac"

€

Neat eh! A better example might be the output of 'lscpu' which will post the specs of the machine I am typing this reply on;

----- output of 'lscpu' starts

Architecture: x86_64
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit
Byte Order: Little Endian
CPU(s): 4
On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3
Thread(s) per core: 2
Core(s) per socket: 2
Socket(s): 1
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU family: 6
Model: 28
Model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D525 @ 1.80GHz
Stepping: 10
CPU MHz: 1800.070
BogoMIPS: 3600.14
L1d cache: 24K
L1i cache: 32K
L2 cache: 512K

----- output of 'lscpu' ends

MvdV> why reïnvent the wheel?

I didn't. I use what is presented to me. All I had to do to make it work with fidonet messaging is was to strip out all the binary from raw pkts and dump the result to a so-called stored msg file although it isn't exactly the same as the ftn stored MSG format it is very simular in structure which makes it easy to redirect it to a outbound pkt such as this reply when I am done creating it.

MvdV> but there is no need for everyone to do that is there?

Nope. However I enjoy working with tools that I am comfortable with and that are extremely powerful. I have yet to find anything comparible in fidonet. Have you?

BTW the msg scanner part shows your message as: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I don't see a BOM in this one but even if there was one the result will be the same. However 'iconv' will fail unless the BOM is stipped beforehand. Just thought you might want to know.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> You could not see my Hebrew characters...

Yes I can. However I do lack a decent console font for Hebrew as well as some other languages but that has absolutely nothing to do with limited utf-8 support. See below as evidence;

MvdV> Hebrew: יש לי סנאים במכנסיים שלי

The codes above are verifiable as Hebrew text by http://www.unicode.org/charts/ as well as other sites that post the utf-8 codes. I can also display them on the terminal using any of the Hebrew fonts except they are extremely difficult for me to read given my poor eyesight.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> Kludge.

→ Bah humbug! ←

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Monday April 21 2014 20:14, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> It is a text editor, so you have to apply it to some "text".

Yes including utf-8 characters such as the Euro symbol. I can also
shell out commands and have the output redirected into a message such
as this command which should result in the Euro symbol being inserted below;

command: r ! echo -e "\u20ac"

€

Neat eh!

Hmmm.. Frankly I do not see how it beats just pushing Right Alt 5. €

A better example might be the output of 'lscpu' which will
post the specs of the machine I am typing this reply on;

All very nice, but there are dozens of ways to post output of a particular utility in a Fidonet message. How about this:

root@OpenWrt:~# help Built-in commands:
------------------
. : [ [[ alias bg break cd chdir command continue echo eval exec exit export false fg getopts hash help jobs kill let local printf pwd read readonly return set shift source test times trap true type ulimit umask unalias unset wait

root@OpenWrt:~#

Just copy and paste will do it...

MvdV>> but there is no need for everyone to do that is there?

Nope. However I enjoy working with tools that I am comfortable with
and that are extremely powerful. I have yet to find anything
comparible in fidonet. Have you?

You are comparing apples and fish if not apples and bandirsnatch. Linux is an operating system, Fidonet is an amateur network. There is a lot more to linux than just Fidonet and there is a lot more to Fidonetthan just Linux. There is a small overlap. You just pointed it out. So have I ever seen something like that in Fideonet? Yes, you just pointed it out.

BTW the msg scanner part shows your message as: text/plain; charset=utf-8

So?

I don't see a BOM in this one but even if there was one the result
will be the same. However 'iconv' will fail unless the BOM is stipped beforehand. Just thought you might want to know.

"0xEF,0xBB,0xBF" is a well formed UTF-8 byte sequence. That the utility of your choice can not gracefully deal with it is not my problem.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Maurice,

On Monday April 21 2014 21:48, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> You could not see my Hebrew characters...

Yes I can. However I do lack a decent console font for Hebrew as well
as some other languages

IOW, you do not see them on your screen as proper Hebrew characters.

but that has absolutely nothing to do with limited utf-8 support.

Oh, but it has...

See below as evidence;

MvdV>> Hebrew: יש לי סנאים במכנסיים שלי

When I look at them in Golded, I see gibberish. How does that differ from you seeing gibberish or nothing at all when you use your "normal method"?

The codes above are verifiable as Hebrew text by http://www.unicode.org/charts/ as
well as other sites that post the utf-8 codes.

No argument there, but that is not the point. The same goes for the "garbage" that I see when using Golded without an external editor.

I can also display them on the terminal using any of the Hebrew fonts

So you can see them when using some external uitility. How is that different from me invoking Notepad as an eternal editor for Golded? Something that you called cheating. It seems to me that you need to do some cheating too, to see the Hebrew text...

except they are extremely difficult for me to read given my poor eyesight.

Sad, but irrelevant for the discussion at hand...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Maurice,

On Monday April 21 2014 23:49, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Kludge.

→ Bah humbug! ←

You are entitled to your opinion. Fact is that Fidonet is full of kludges, workarounds and trickery to make things work. You do it, I do it, everyone does it. There is nothing dishonest, illegal or unethical about it.

Live with it.

Cheers, Michiel

...Одна ласточка еще не делает весны


--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

Sounds like a plan.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Wednesday April 23 2014 02:00, you wrote to me:

@MSGID: 1:153/7001.0 53571ed4
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 5356f746

No TZUTC kludge
No CHRS kludge
No TID kludge
No PID kludge

Sounds like a plan.

Makes me wonder what the plan is...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> Makes me wonder what the plan is

You said it when you falsely included me in your need to kludge everything philopsophy.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Wednesday April 23 2014 13:39, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Makes me wonder what the plan is

You said it when you falsely included me in your need to kludge
everything philopsophy.

It is not a philosophy, it is an observation.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> It is not a philosophy, it is an observation.

A Møøse once bit my sister ...

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Wednesday April 23 2014 22:42, you wrote to me:

@MSGID: 1:153/7001.0 535841ef
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 5358373b
Hey Michiel!

MvdV>> It is not a philosophy, it is an observation.

A M├©├©se once bit my sister ...

No CHRS kludge, no BOM, so there is no way to tell what character encoding is used. My software is not able to pass the Turing Test yet, so it assumes CP850. Result -> garbage.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Maurice,

On Wednesday April 23 2014 22:42, you wrote to me:

A Møøse once bit my sister ...

But... when I set xlatimport utf-8 for this area, it looks ok...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> there is no way to tell what character encoding is used.

You mean that you cannot verify encoding. I could have easily provided the wrong encoding in the CHRS kludge which happens all the time and for sure it would have been grunged just like the Russian site does with LATIN-1 since it uses iconv and there is no such thing as LATIN-1 but instead LATIN1. I posted an example of this flaw in FTSC_PUBLIC to demonstrate the flaw along with evidence that it is so.

MvdV> Result -> garbage.

Actually it is fine since the 8 bit codes match perfectly with the utf-8 pair (0xc3, 0xb8) with CP850 for those particular codes.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> But... when I set xlatimport utf-8 for this area, it looks ok...

Go figure eh? They REALLY were utf-8 encoded. My encoding checker shows your reply as "text/plain; charset=utf-8" without even looking at the CHRS kludge or whether or not there is a BOM. I am doing this the correct way rather than some goofy broken kludge. ;-)

I did some checking around for a utf-8 verification thingy for windows based software and only found some online web sites that would do it online. I think they are php scripts but I didn't bother testing them since I already have a local method that can be scripted into my WeBeBashing ftn functions. Works like a charm so far.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Thursday April 24 2014 14:23, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> But... when I set xlatimport utf-8 for this area, it looks
MvdV>> ok...

Go figure eh? They REALLY were utf-8 encoded.

But how is my Fidonet message viewer going to know? Without making assumptions, such as that if it is written here, it probably is UTF-8?

when I switch to LATIN-1 I see two pairs of a captal A with and some kind of cedille. How does my viewer know that is not what you wanted to write? Yes, it can see that they are well formed UTF-8 strings. But that is not 100% proof that it IS UTF-8.

My encoding checker shows your reply as "text/plain; charset=utf-8"

All it shows is that it is consistent with UTF-8, not that it IS UTF-8.

without even looking at the CHRS kludge or whether or not there is a
BOM. I am doing this the correct way rather than some goofy broken kludge. ;-)

No, you are doing it YOUR way. The correct way when reading fidonet messages is to look at the CHRS character encoding identifier and take it from there.

I did some checking around for a utf-8 verification thingy for windows based software and only found some online web sites that would do it online. I think they are php scripts but I didn't bother testing them since I already have a local method that can be scripted into my WeBeBashing ftn functions. Works like a charm so far.

It works for you. Or so you make yourself believe. That would be fine if you lived on an island without connections to the rest of the world. But you are not on an island, you are part of a network that is about exchanging messages. "Works for me" is not good enough, it has to work for the others too. And messages in a character encoding scheme other than 100% ASCII do not work for the others if there is no CHRS character encoding identifier.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> But how is my Fidonet message viewer going to know?

Beats me. I already posted here how mine 'knows'. It can tell the difference except cannot identify the 8-bit encodings other than to 'know' that they are either iso or non-iso. Those are REALLY the ones that need a CHRS kludge not that they will ever get that right given all the abandonware in fidonet. However given this is the UTF-8 echo then it shouldn't be an issue is it?

MvdV> But you are not on an island

I live on an island. They call it Vancouver Island. :-)

MvdV> you are part of a network that is about exchanging messages.

Understood. I am probably one of the most compatible - if indeed not *thee* most compatible - fidonet system in the world today. With CHRS or without. It makes no difference.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Friday April 25 2014 15:13, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> But how is my Fidonet message viewer going to know?

Beats me.

Obviously. The answer is: it can not.

I already posted here how mine 'knows'.

You have also demonstarted that your method is not infallible.

It can tell the difference except cannot identify the 8-bit encodings other than to 'know' that they are either iso or non-iso.

No, you can't. I presented a message encoded in iso 646 and you classified it as ASCII.

Those are REALLY the ones that need a CHRS kludge not that they will
ever get that right given all the abandonware in fidonet. However
given this is the UTF-8 echo then it shouldn't be an issue is it?

That the topic for discussion here is "UTF-8 and all that goes with it" does not imply a compulsion to use UTF-8 encoding.

MvdV>> But you are not on an island

I live on an island. They call it Vancouver Island. :-)

So I got that wrong...

MvdV>> you are part of a network that is about exchanging messages.

Understood. I am probably one of the most compatible - if indeed not *thee* most compatible - fidonet system in the world today.

To be compatible wth Fidonet, you have to follow agreed Fidonet standards, not your own private standards.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Maurice!

24 Apr 14 14:12, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

You mean that you cannot verify encoding. I could have easily
provided
the wrong encoding in the CHRS kludge which happens all the time and for sure it would have been grunged just like the Russian site does with LATIN-1 since it uses iconv and there is no such thing as LATIN-1 but instead LATIN1.

That is easily solved, if they add LATIN-1 as an alias in

/usr/lib/........../gconv/gconv-modules

The .... is a hardware dependent directory.

On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet CHRS kludges
and make full use of this kludge. ;))))

Kees


--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20130910
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5006.4)

Hello Maurice!

24 Apr 14 14:12, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

You mean that you cannot verify encoding. I could have easily
provided
the wrong encoding in the CHRS kludge which happens all the time and for sure it would have been grunged just like the Russian site does with LATIN-1 since it uses iconv and there is no such thing as LATIN-1 but instead LATIN1.

That is easily solved, if they add LATIN-1 as an alias in

/usr/lib/........../gconv/gconv-modules

The .... is a hardware dependent directory.

On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet CHRS kludges
and make full use of this kludge. ;))))

Kees


--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20130910
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5006.4)

Hey Kees!

That is easily solved, if they add LATIN-1 as an alias

Acoording to the ISO gurus latin1 is the correct alias. Given that the actual encoding is iso-8859-1 I would be inclined to use that instead of ANY alias but barring that would use the alias as long as it is supported by the software being deployed.

On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet
CHRS kludges

Or not. I don't ever use the CHRS kludge so it seems to me it would be shooting myself in the foot to please something that in all likelihood isn't EVER going to win support or even get implimented by 'widely' used software in the entire Fidonet community, nevermind locally. But yes I could provide myself FTN aliases if it ever matters any. I have very serious doubts about it though especially after the ISO646-NO test message with the bogus NORWEIG alias recognized by nothing in use that I am aware of anywhere in the world nevermind to any of my links into Fidonet, neither of which actually use the CHRS kludge that I know of.

I seriously believe that fts-5003 should be scrapped and failing that at least remove the utf-8 kludge which is totally unneeded. It causes way more problems than it solves given that there never was a problem with utf-8 before fts-5003 was concieved.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Saturday April 26 2014 22:47, you wrote to Kees van Eeten:

Acoording to the ISO gurus latin1 is the correct alias.

The ISO gurus (whoever they are) have no authority in Fidonet. They don't make the rules here. Fidonet makes its own rules. If you want to play in Fidonet, you have to play by the Fidonet rules.

Given that the actual encoding is iso-8859-1 I would be inclined to
use that instead of ANY alias

The Fidonet community has chosen otherwise.

but barring that would use the alias as long as it is supported by
the software being deployed.

LATIN-1 /IS/ supported by the software of those that use that encoding.

On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet
CHRS kludges

Or not. I don't ever use the CHRS kludge so it seems to me it would
be shooting myself in the foot to please something that in all
likelihood isn't EVER going to win support or even get implimented by 'widely' used software in the entire Fidonet community, nevermind
locally.

You are totally wrong. The Fidonet community has choosen to not rely on automatic recognition schemes but to signal the character set in use by means of a kludge. This practise has been in widespread use for at least twenty years. The character set that you refer to as ISO-8859-1 is in widespread use in the non native English speaking, non Cyrillic parts of Fidonet. Especially among the Linux crowd. In Fidonet it is known as LATIN-1. Has been for some two decades...

But yes I could provide myself FTN aliases if it ever matters any. I
have very serious doubts about it though especially after the
ISO646-NO test message with the bogus NORWEIG alias recognized by
nothing in use that I am aware of anywhere in the world

Then perhaps you should widen your horizon. ISO-646 /has/ been used in Fidonet messages. It has even been used in the nodelist:

http://www.textfiles.com/fidonet-on-the-internet/n1993/nodelist.001

Have a look at Region 22.

nevermind to any of my links into Fidonet, neither of which actually
use the CHRS kludge that I know of.

Your ZC uses CHRS: LATIN-1 1

I seriously believe that fts-5003 should be scrapped

You are entitled to your beliefs. As any Fidonet participant should know by know, I am not in the believing bussines. I prefer verifiable facts. And the verifiable fact is that the CHRS kludge is in widespread use in fidonet and has been for many years. It /is/ current practise wether you like that or not.

and failing that at least remove the utf-8 kludge which is totally unneeded.

The fidonet community has decided otherwise.

It causes way more problems

What prolems does the "CHRS: UFT-8 4" kludge cause? If you want to be pig headed and use some other means to detect UTF-8, just ignore it.

than it solves given that there never was a problem with utf-8 before fts-5003 was concieved.

The UTF-8 kludge has been in use long before FTS-5003 formally documented it.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

MvdV> LATIN-1 /IS/ supported by the software of those that use that
MvdV> encoding.

According to the REAL encoding (ISO-8859-1) LATIN1 is the accepted alias. They don't mention LATIN-1 nor do the charmaps I deploy here as well as most of the servers on the internet. Where your software got that encoding is highly questionable given the reality of the situation.

MvdV> The character set that you refer to as ISO-8859-1 is in
MvdV> widespread use

For sure. Also the accepted alias for it is indeed LATIN1 and *NOT* LATIN-1.

MvdV> ISO-646 /has/ been used in Fidonet messages.

Excellent. Here is what I've been able to decipher about fts-5003 and it's reported aliasing of the ISO 646 codes;

ASCII ISO 646-1 (US ASCII) ISO646-US
DUTCH ISO 646 Dutch ????????? (lacking reference)
FINNISH ISO 646-10 (Swedish/Finnish) Unsure guessing ISO646-FI
FRENCH ISO 646 French ISO646-FR (also exists ISO646-FR1)
CANADIAN ISO 646 Canadian ISO646-CA (also exists ISO646-CA2)
GERMAN ISO 646 German ISO646-DE
ITALIAN ISO 646 Italian ISO646-IT
NORWEIG ISO 646 Norwegian ISO646-NO (also exists ISO646-NO2)
PORTU ISO 646 Portuguese ISO646-PT (also exists ISO646-PT2)
SPANISH ISO 646 Spanish ISO646-ES (also exists ISO646-ES2)
SWEDISH ISO 646-10 (Swedish/Finnish) Unsure guessing ISO646-SE and/or ISO646-SE2
SWISS ISO 646 Swiss ????????? (lacking reference)
UK ISO 646 UK ISO646-GB
ISO-10 ISO 646-10 (Deprecated alias) (lacking reference)

I was unable to find ANY credible references to DUTCH and SWISS. The 'unsure' ones I din find references but wasn't sure if those were indeed what was intended by fts-5003's aliases for those entries. One thing I do know for sure is that CANADIAN is a tad misleading since both CA and CA2 were at one time both supported equally. I haven't run across and ISO 646 codes in decades now, nevermind Fidonet. However it wouldn't surprise me that there might exist old mainframes in some Canadian gov't building somewhere still using punchcards so anything is possible. I don't think any of them have nodenumbers though.

MvdV> Your ZC uses CHRS: LATIN-1 1

Nope. Last time I noticed it was "CHARSET: LATIN-1".

MvdV> It /is/ current practise wether you like that or not.

No it isn't. The majority is still using buggy abandonware that isn't even aware of CHARSET nevermind CHRS.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

Hello Maurice,

On Sunday April 27 2014 17:00, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> LATIN-1 /IS/ supported by the software of those that use that encoding.

According to the REAL encoding (ISO-8859-1) LATIN1 is the accepted alias.

I don't care about your so called "REAL encoding". We are in Fidonet and in

They don't mention LATIN-1

I don't care about "They". We are in Fidonet and in Fidonet, the accepted

nor do the charmaps I deploy here as well as most of the servers on the internet.

I don't care about your charmaps or "most of the servers on the internt". We

Where your software got that encoding is highly questionable given the reality of the situation.

The reality of the situation is that we are in Fidonet And...in Fidonet, the accepted identifier is LATIN-1

MvdV>> The character set that you refer to as ISO-8859-1 is in widespread use

For sure. Also the accepted alias for it is indeed LATIN1 and *NOT* LATIN-1.

We are in Fidonet and in Fidonet, the accepted identifier is LATIN-1.

MvdV>> ISO-646 /has/ been used in Fidonet messages.

Excellent. Here is what I've been able to decipher about fts-5003 and it's reported aliasing of the ISO 646 codes;

[..]

I was unable to find ANY credible references to DUTCH and SWISS.

Then you have not looked hard enough. Here is my translation table from DUTCH

=== Cut ===
;
; This file is a charset conversion module in text form.
;
; This module converts the Dutch ISO 646 NL character set to Codepage 850.
; You can use it as a basis for a level 1 converter.
;
; Format: ID, version, level,
; from charset, to charset,
; 128 entries: first & second byte
; "END"
; Lines beginning with a ";" or a ";" after the entries are comments
;
; Unknown characters are mapped to the "?" character.
;
; cedilla = , ; dieresis = .. ; acute = '
; grave = ` ; circumflex = ^ ; ring = o
; tilde = ~ ; caron = v
; All of these are above the character, apart from the cedilla which is below. ;
; \ is the escape character: \0 means decimal zero,
; \dnnn where nnn is a decimal number is the ordinal value of the character
; \xnn where nn is a hexadecimal number
; e.g.: \x32 is the ASCII space character
; Two \\ is the character "\" itself.
;
0 ; ID number
0 ; version number
;
1 ; level number
;
DUTCH ; from set
CP850 ; to set
;
\0 \0 ; NUL
\0 \x1 ; SOH
\0 \x2 ; STX
\0 \x3 ; ETX
\0 \x4 ; EOT
\0 \x5 ; ENQ
\0 \x6 ; ACK
\0 \x7 ; BEL
\0 \x8 ; BS
\0 \x9 ; HT
\0 \xA ; LF
\0 \xB ; VT
\0 \xC ; FF
\0 \xD ; CR
\0 \xE ; SO
\0 \xF ; SI
\0 \x10 ; DLE
\0 \x11 ; DC1
\0 \x12 ; DC2
\0 \x13 ; DC3
\0 \x14 ; DC4
\0 \x15 ; NAK
\0 \x16 ; SYN
\0 \x17 ; ETB
\0 \x18 ; CAN
\0 \x19 ; EM
\0 \x1a ; SUB
\0 \x1b ; ESC
\0 \x1c ; FS
\0 \x1d ; GS
\0 \x1e ; RS
\0 \x1f ; US
\0 \x20 ; space
\0 ! ; exclaim
\0 " ; double quotes
\0 £ ; # -> pound sterling sign
\0 $ ; dollar
\0 % ; percent
\0 & ; ampersand
\0 ' ; quote right
\0 ( ; parenthesis left
\0 ) ; parenthesis right
\0 * ; asterisk
\0 + ; plus
\0 , ; comma
\0 - ; minus
\0 . ; period
\0 / ; slash
\0 0 ; zero
\0 1 ; one
\0 2 ; two
\0 3 ; three
\0 4 ; four
\0 5 ; five
\0 6 ; six
\0 7 ; seven
\0 8 ; eight
\0 9 ; nine
\0 : ; colon
\0 \d59 ; semicolon
\0 < ; less than
\0 = ; equals
\0 > ; greater than
\0 ? ; question
\0 ¾ ; @ -> Vulgar fraction 3/4
\0 A ;
\0 B ;
\0 C ;
\0 D ;
\0 E ;
\0 F ;
\0 G ;
\0 H ;
\0 I ;
\0 J ;
\0 K ;
\0 L ;
\0 M ;
\0 N ;
\0 O ;
\0 P ;
\0 Q ;
\0 R ;
\0 S ;
\0 T ;
\0 U ;
\0 V ;
\0 W ;
\0 X ;
\0 Y ;
\0 Z ;
i j ; bracket left -> ij
\0 ½ ; backslash -> vulgar fraction 1/2
\0 | ; bracket right -> Vertikal line
\0 ^ ; circum
\0 _ ; underscore
\0 ` ; quote left
\0 a ;
\0 b ;
\0 c ;
\0 d ;
\0 e ;
\0 f ;
\0 g ;
\0 h ;
\0 i ;
\0 j ;
\0 k ;
\0 l ;
\0 m ;
\0 n ;
\0 o ;
\0 p ;
\0 q ;
\0 r ;
\0 s ;
\0 t ;
\0 u ;
\0 v ;
\0 w ;
\0 x ;
\0 y ;
\0 z ;
\0 ¨ ; brace left -> dieresis
\0 ƒ ; bar -> guilders sign
\0 ¼ ; brace right -> vulgar fraction 1/4
\0 ' ; tilde -> accute accent
\0 \x7F ; DEL
END
=== Cut ===


Note the special Dutch character ij (Dutch Guilder sign) at position 124.

Another one is the ij (Latin small ligature ij) at position 91. In the Dutch

MvdV>> Your ZC uses CHRS: LATIN-1 1

Nope. Last time I noticed it was "CHARSET: LATIN-1".

So the identifier used is LATIN-1.

MvdV>> It /is/ current practise wether you like that or not.

No it isn't. The majority is still using buggy abandonware that isn't even aware of CHARSET nevermind CHRS.

Wrong. The majority of messages written in Fidonet is written in Cyrillics. The readers/writers of those messages use software that uses the CHRS kludge.


Cheers, Michiel


---
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

orig.message to echo UTF-8 on 16 Apr 14 11:23:36

Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns
English: The farrier grows pink unicorns
German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner
Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger
French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses
Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

Maybe "растит"? Not grows itself, but grows something.

Sergey

... vim
--- PyFTN
* Origin: fluid.fidoman.ru (2:5020/12000)

Hello Wilfred,

orig.message to echo UTF-8 on 16 Apr 14 18:06:25

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.

Golded is unable to decode UTF-8, at all.

Sergey

... vim
--- PyFTN
* Origin: fluid.fidoman.ru (2:5020/12000)

Hello Sergey,

On Friday April 24 2015 11:30, you wrote to me:

French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses
Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги

Maybe "растит"? Not grows itself, but grows something.

You'r the expert on Russian. I confess I used Google translate. It is known to have limitations...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Sergey,

On Friday April 24 2015 11:31, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.

Golded is unable to decode UTF-8, at all.

Well, that is not entirely true. It can do some VERY limited conversion from UTF-8 to an 8 bit chracter set. I have a table that converts the characters in the range U+00C0 - U+00FF to CP850. All other UTF8 characters are displayed as gibberish.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hey Michiel!

Well, that is not entirely true. It can do some VERY limited conversion from
UTF-8 to an 8 bit chracter set. I have a table that converts the characters in >the range U+00C0 - U+00FF to CP850. All other UTF8 characters are displayed as
gibberish.

Here is an interesting experiment; Blind h**ne kann og finna eit konn.

Life is good,
Maurice

... A M��se once bit my sister ...

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hey self!

Here is an interesting experiment; Blind h**ne kann og finna eit konn.

Apologies as that didn't work as intended. This one should; Bj�rnen og bj�rnemannen (bj�rnejegeren) har ikkje same meining.

... A M��se once bit my sister ...

That part worked fine though and should create gibberish when converted to cp850. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... A M��se once bit my sister ...

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hello Maurice!

24 Apr 15 16:38, you wrote to you:

Apologies as that didn't work as intended. This one should; Bjørnen og bjørnemannen (bjørnejegeren) har ikkje same meining.

Bears an bear hunters do not have the same thoughts/opinion.
But that was now what you wanted to know.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hey self!

That part worked fine though and should create gibberish when converted to cp850. :-)

Perhaps not since they were sent as the proper 8-bit codes. This might fake it out though for the character in question -> �, <- since together they should appear as 00F8 to a UTF-8 editor.

Life is good,
Maurice
... A M��se once bit my sister ...

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hey Kees!

But that was now what you wanted to know.

Not really. I did figure out that what I wanted isn't going to be easy, perhaps not even likely to work at all.

Life is good,
Maurice

... A M��se once bit my sister ...

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hello Maurice,

orig.message to echo UTF-8 on 23 Apr 14 22:42:55

MvdV> It is not a philosophy, it is an observation.
A Møøse once bit my sister ...

Do you see the smile?
ꙭ
꙾

Sergey

... vim
--- PyFTN
* Origin: fluid.fidoman.ru (2:5020/12000)