It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.
The bom is automagically gone...
It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.
@MSGID: 2:280/464 534ed270^^^^^
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 534e4cbe
@PID: GED+LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
@TID: FMail-W32-1.68.1.61-B20140411
@RFC-X-No-Archive: Yes
@TZUTC: 0200
@CHRS: CP437 2
The bom is automagically gone...
Those above look all good...
These look only partially ok...
The bom is automagically gone...
At least it wasn't visible in linux golded. I still see it in the
quotes on the windows side...
Lucky for me I already had that one in a golded sub directory...
Otherwise it would be easier said than done.
All I can choose is "auto"...?
I used alt-w for control over the file path and name...
I skipped this, so not to have to find out how to set the code page.
;)
I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...
@MSGID: 2:280/5006.4 534f0742^^^^^^^^^
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 534e4cbe
@CHRS: LATIN-1 2
@TZUTC: 0200
Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns
Actually this message is to test to see if charset UTF-8 is set forr
the outgoing traffic.
MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
I can read any language, EXCEPT Greek. Unfortunately it is all Greek
to me <G>
Those above look all good...
These look only partially ok...
Lucky for me I already had that one in a golded sub directory...
Otherwise it would be easier said than done.
All I can choose is "auto"...?
I skipped this, so not to have to find out how to set the code page.
;)
I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...
@CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt rze eenhoorns
English: The farrier grows pink unicorns
German: Der Hufschmied wchst rosa Einhrner
Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjrninger
French: Le marchal-ferrant se dveloppe licornes roses
All I can choose is "auto"...?
I have set yesterday:
XLATPATH c:\fd\Golded\cfgs\charset\
XLATCHARSET CP850 CP850 850_850.CHS
Before that I got another message with ctrl-j, which said I had no configuration for translation (or words along that line)...
I used notepad++, and it looks perfectly ok in there...
I don't want an external editor...
Those above look all good...
Yes.
These look only partially ok...
I think my current font has a limited charset, and can't display all
the utf-8 chars...
XLATPATH c:\fd\Golded\cfgs\charset\
XLATCHARSET CP850 CP850 850_850.CHS
Before that I got another message with ctrl-j, which said I had no
configuration for translation (or words along that line)...
I don't want an external editor...
These look only partially ok...
I think my current font has a limited charset, and can't display all
the utf-8 chars...
Not deliberately. ;)
I'll try that tonight, on XP.
I don't want an external editor...
So why do I need to configure it?
The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)
This is on Linux. And it isn't total garbage. Maybe half of the
characters look ok...
Here's a screengrab of how it looks on my screen: http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/bdc9382c
Not deliberately. ;)
I'll try that tonight, on XP.
I don't want an external editor...
So why do I need to configure it?
The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)
Here's a screengrab of how it looks on my screen:
http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/bdc9382c
I can read any language, EXCEPT Greek. Unfortunately it is all
Greek to me <G>
Perhaps you can use NOTEPAD as an external editor?
In nano and the Midnight Commander viewer and editor it looks ok:
http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/46c6843a
So it seems to be a Golded specific problem.
It might have to do with the special patch I applied to the Golded
source code, as suggested in the GOLDED area. Because the "plain"
version kept on crashing on some utf-8 messages...
Perhaps you can use NOTEPAD as an external editor?
I dont think it will integrate into SBBS <G>
I occassionally use Golded, but it does have its problems accross the network. It is located on this computer while the message base is
located on a different one. I think that would be the only way I
could use Notepad.
I dont think it will integrate into SBBS <G>
It does not have an option of calling an external editor?
I'll try that tonight, on XP.
Ok...
I don't want an external editor...
So why do I need to configure it?
The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)
Ok, stay tuned...
Ok...
Now I have the choice to select CP437 -> CP437.
It doesn't however change the output file, compared to the direct
saving of the message...
So why do I need to configure it?
The extra option would just be annoying me all the time... ;)
Ok, stay tuned...
This is written in the external editor... I'll do another one with the UTF-8 characters in them.
This is a reply with the external editor (it's nice to have automatic spell
All the utf characters above look ok in here. Do they still look ok on your end?
Now I have the choice to select CP437 -> CP437.
It doesn't however change the output file, compared to the direct
saving of the message...
This is a reply with the external editor (it's nice to have automatic
spell
There is a large list of possible chs files to add...
On 2014-04-18 00:38:38, you wrote to me:
Golded doesn't display this character either. I had to view that "externally" to be able to tell it's a Euro sign...
But it's a function (or plugin) of the editor I was using: notepad++
It's freeware, and easy to find...
But it's a function (or plugin) of the editor I was using: notepad++
It's freeware, and easy to find...
Do they still look ok on your end?
Golded doesn't display this character either. I had to view that "externally" to be able to tell it's a Euro sign...
@CHRS: CP437 2
According to a method I occasionally use that ignores FTN kludges etc.
the result shows here as "text/plain; charset=utf-8" and contains a
BOM that you quoted from Michiel. Also when viewing it all the
characters look good. However I have to wonder how your "CHRS: CP437
2" is going to affect apps that actually take the CHRS kludge
seriously. ;-)
I know of at least one web site that posts Fidonet messages that will grunge your message since utf-8 characters are NOT cp437.
Basically it is a bash script that strips only the text part of
messages out of raw pkts without any harm to the original raw pkt.
The result is each message occupies a line in the output file and
contains five null delimited fields; ftn datetime stamp, To, From, subject, and message body with all the kludges etc.
For checking formats (utf-8, ascii or any 8-bit character set) I
output each line (message) to 'file -b -i' which is the output I cut
and pasted to show the result to my reply to Wilfred as confirmation
that it is indeed utf-8 and not cp437 which is what his CHRS kludge claimed.
I am using vim to reply to this message. It isn't external to
anything like Golded+ though.
Once I exit the editor all the needed FTN stuff will be applied to
it and it will be later packed up and sent to the uplink not unlike
what normal Fidonet procedures do.
Currently the above scheme. I have used vim and nano as an external editor with msged which is the same as it would be with Golded+.
Understood. Been there, done that except without any outside help.
I had to figure it out myself.
Sorry I forgot to respond to the above in the original reply. The
reason I call it cheating is that anyone reading a message 'created'
by GoldED+ is going to get the impression that it is utf-8 capable
when it obviously isn't.
If you, and others following this same idea, were to correct the
tearline to indicate that an external editor is being deployed to take care of the shortcomings then that would make it more honest and save others much grief if they started using GoldED+ thinking they could read/write utf-8 fidonet messages based on your (and others) postings.
Perhaps 'cheat' is not the correct word but at the moment I cannot
come up with a better word for this particular methodology. What do
you suggest instead?
Yes including utf-8 characters such as the Euro symbol. I can also
shell out commands and have the output redirected into a message such
as this command which should result in the Euro symbol being inserted below;
command: r ! echo -e "\u20ac"
€
Neat eh!
A better example might be the output of 'lscpu' which will
post the specs of the machine I am typing this reply on;
Nope. However I enjoy working with tools that I am comfortable with
and that are extremely powerful. I have yet to find anything
comparible in fidonet. Have you?
BTW the msg scanner part shows your message as: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't see a BOM in this one but even if there was one the result
will be the same. However 'iconv' will fail unless the BOM is stipped beforehand. Just thought you might want to know.
Yes I can. However I do lack a decent console font for Hebrew as well
as some other languages
but that has absolutely nothing to do with limited utf-8 support.
See below as evidence;
The codes above are verifiable as Hebrew text by http://www.unicode.org/charts/ as
well as other sites that post the utf-8 codes.
I can also display them on the terminal using any of the Hebrew fonts
except they are extremely difficult for me to read given my poor eyesight.
→ Bah humbug! ←
@MSGID: 1:153/7001.0 53571ed4
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 5356f746
Sounds like a plan.
You said it when you falsely included me in your need to kludge
everything philopsophy.
@MSGID: 1:153/7001.0 535841ef
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 5358373b
Hey Michiel!
A M├©├©se once bit my sister ...
A Møøse once bit my sister ...
Go figure eh? They REALLY were utf-8 encoded.
My encoding checker shows your reply as "text/plain; charset=utf-8"
without even looking at the CHRS kludge or whether or not there is a
BOM. I am doing this the correct way rather than some goofy broken kludge. ;-)
I did some checking around for a utf-8 verification thingy for windows based software and only found some online web sites that would do it online. I think they are php scripts but I didn't bother testing them since I already have a local method that can be scripted into my WeBeBashing ftn functions. Works like a charm so far.
Beats me.
I already posted here how mine 'knows'.
It can tell the difference except cannot identify the 8-bit encodings other than to 'know' that they are either iso or non-iso.
Those are REALLY the ones that need a CHRS kludge not that they will
ever get that right given all the abandonware in fidonet. However
given this is the UTF-8 echo then it shouldn't be an issue is it?
I live on an island. They call it Vancouver Island. :-)
Understood. I am probably one of the most compatible - if indeed not *thee* most compatible - fidonet system in the world today.
You mean that you cannot verify encoding. I could have easily
provided
the wrong encoding in the CHRS kludge which happens all the time and for sure it would have been grunged just like the Russian site does with LATIN-1 since it uses iconv and there is no such thing as LATIN-1 but instead LATIN1.
You mean that you cannot verify encoding. I could have easily
provided
the wrong encoding in the CHRS kludge which happens all the time and for sure it would have been grunged just like the Russian site does with LATIN-1 since it uses iconv and there is no such thing as LATIN-1 but instead LATIN1.
That is easily solved, if they add LATIN-1 as an alias
On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet
CHRS kludges
Acoording to the ISO gurus latin1 is the correct alias.
Given that the actual encoding is iso-8859-1 I would be inclined to
use that instead of ANY alias
but barring that would use the alias as long as it is supported by
the software being deployed.
On your side you could add the names that are used in Fidonet
CHRS kludges
Or not. I don't ever use the CHRS kludge so it seems to me it would
be shooting myself in the foot to please something that in all
likelihood isn't EVER going to win support or even get implimented by 'widely' used software in the entire Fidonet community, nevermind
locally.
But yes I could provide myself FTN aliases if it ever matters any. I
have very serious doubts about it though especially after the
ISO646-NO test message with the bogus NORWEIG alias recognized by
nothing in use that I am aware of anywhere in the world
nevermind to any of my links into Fidonet, neither of which actually
use the CHRS kludge that I know of.
I seriously believe that fts-5003 should be scrapped
and failing that at least remove the utf-8 kludge which is totally unneeded.
It causes way more problems
than it solves given that there never was a problem with utf-8 before fts-5003 was concieved.
According to the REAL encoding (ISO-8859-1) LATIN1 is the accepted alias.
They don't mention LATIN-1
nor do the charmaps I deploy here as well as most of the servers on the internet.
Where your software got that encoding is highly questionable given the reality of the situation.
For sure. Also the accepted alias for it is indeed LATIN1 and *NOT* LATIN-1.
Excellent. Here is what I've been able to decipher about fts-5003 and it's reported aliasing of the ISO 646 codes;[..]
I was unable to find ANY credible references to DUTCH and SWISS.
Nope. Last time I noticed it was "CHARSET: LATIN-1".
No it isn't. The majority is still using buggy abandonware that isn't even aware of CHARSET nevermind CHRS.
Dutch: De hoefsmid kweekt ròze eenhoorns
English: The farrier grows pink unicorns
German: Der Hufschmied wächst rosa Einhörner
Norwegian: Hovslageren vokser rosa enhjørninger
French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses
Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги
MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.
French: Le maréchal-ferrant se développe licornes roses
Russian: Кузнец растет розовые единороги
Maybe "растит"? Not grows itself, but grows something.
MvdV> Greek: Ο πεταλωτής μεγαλώνει ροζ
μονόκερους
It's all giberish to me... ;)
In Golded under Windows XP.
Golded is unable to decode UTF-8, at all.
Well, that is not entirely true. It can do some VERY limited conversion from
UTF-8 to an 8 bit chracter set. I have a table that converts the characters in >the range U+00C0 - U+00FF to CP850. All other UTF8 characters are displayed as
gibberish.
Here is an interesting experiment; Blind h**ne kann og finna eit konn.
... A Mse once bit my sister ...
Apologies as that didn't work as intended. This one should; Bjørnen og bjørnemannen (bjørnejegeren) har ikkje same meining.
That part worked fine though and should create gibberish when converted to cp850. :-)
But that was now what you wanted to know.
MvdV> It is not a philosophy, it is an observation.
A Møøse once bit my sister ...
Sysop: | Nelgin |
---|---|
Location: | Plano, TX |
Users: | 417 |
Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
Uptime: | 45:28:30 |
Calls: | 6,203 |
Calls today: | 18 |
Files: | 15,733 |
Messages: | 753,342 |
Posted today: | 3 |