• The Train Wreck

    From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to ALL on Thu Feb 16 16:17:00 2023
    The train wreck was on the local news again this morning. The city of East Palestine held a city meeting last night for the citizens to ask questions.
    The railroad representatives did not show up, claiming that threats of physical violence had been made.

    Citizens remain concerned despite the EPA's claim that there have been no harmful fumes detected in the air, or harmful chemicals in the city water.

    I don't think there is any conspiracy to keep this out of the news,
    although I won't claim that I would be confortable drinking the water or breathing the air there.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Fri Feb 17 07:36:35 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to ALL <=-

    I don't think there is any conspiracy to keep this out of the news, although I won't claim that I would be confortable drinking the water
    or breathing the air there.

    Many years ago, I made a claim on the local BBSs about how the media was willfully burying stories.

    One of the other users challenged me to show him a story that was:
    1. Newsworthy - meaning that people would want to read about it.
    2. Not generally reported - meaning that it was not part of the normal 6 O'Clock news, but it may be buried on page 10 of section H of the newspaper.

    tldr; I did find such a story and while he wouldn't agree with me that the media
    purposely didn't cover it, he did agree that it met his requirements and should have been in the news.

    Today, I would add a 3rd requirement:
    3. There were no other, more important, news items that needed to be reported.

    But the Ohio derailment (because there have been more derailments recently)
    is certainly newsworthy due to the extreme mishandling of things. It's not generally reported and there are no other, more important, news items.

    So, I have to call this non-reporting a "conspiracy".


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron L. on Fri Feb 17 17:36:46 2023
    But the Ohio derailment (because there have been more derailments recently) is certainly newsworthy due to the extreme mishandling of things. It's not generally reported and there are no other, more important, news items.

    So, I have to call this non-reporting a "conspiracy".

    There's a lack of coverage about the covid "vaccine" not being a vaccine.

    Dan Bongino is now openly advising people against the vaccine, which is great, but he should have been saying that long ago (the big faker.)

    There's a lack of coverage about every nasty thing the Democrats are doing. People still don't know that Joe peddled influence in Ukraine, or that he ripped open the border to accommodate the Soros Media Company.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Fri Feb 17 14:35:00 2023
    But the Ohio derailment (because there have been more derailments recently) is certainly newsworthy due to the extreme mishandling of things. It's not generally reported and there are no other, more important, news items.

    So, I have to call this non-reporting a "conspiracy".

    Maybe there is a conspiracy where you live, but the local news (Louisville
    and Lexington) has been reporting about it every day that I have watched
    the news since it happened.

    The most recent report was that an EPA official was there, the nearby creek
    is still nasty and full of dead fish, and no one is happ because they still don't believe they are getting the correct answers.

    They also reported that the latest 3 balloons/craft that were shot down
    were likely of a private or other "local" source, and were likely for
    weather or other research. That included a clip of Biden bragging about
    how he gave the order to shoot down each one of them.

    I would agree that there may indeed be something going on with these
    balloons, i.e. that they were shot down so that Biden could claim he was
    being diligent and in hopes that we will forget that the one that was known
    to be a spy balloon was allowed to cross the whole country before being
    dealt with.

    So I believe *that* is what "they" (the press or, more specifically,
    Biden's press handlers) are trying to cover-up or gloss-over.


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  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ron L. on Sat Feb 18 01:34:04 2023
    On 02-17-23 07:36, Ron L. <=-
    spoke to Mike Powell about Re: The Train Wreck <=-

    But the Ohio derailment (because there have been more derailments recently) is certainly newsworthy due to the extreme mishandling of things. It's not generally reported and there are no other, more important, news items.

    It has been reported whenever there is new information. I saw
    discussion about the effects on the news tonight.

    So, I have to call this non-reporting a "conspiracy".

    You do like your conspiracies!

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Sat Feb 18 08:47:54 2023
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    There's a lack of coverage about the covid "vaccine" not being a
    vaccine.

    That's been the case for a while now. But we now know that lack of coverage
    to be active censorship.

    Dan Bongino is now openly advising people against the vaccine, which is great, but he should have been saying that long ago (the big faker.)

    He's not the only ex-pro-jab to wake up.

    There's a lack of coverage about every nasty thing the Democrats are doing. People still don't know that Joe peddled influence in Ukraine,
    or that he ripped open the border to accommodate the Soros Media
    Company.

    And it's why I stopped watching the Propaganda Ministry (aka "mainstream" media) and sought out alternative news sources.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Sat Feb 18 08:47:54 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    So I believe *that* is what "they" (the press or, more specifically, Biden's press handlers) are trying to cover-up or gloss-over.

    It's certainly getting harder to tell what's real, what's Narrative,
    what's real but warped to fit the narrative. The Elitists are well known
    for never letting an opportunity go to waste.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sat Feb 18 09:17:00 2023
    So I believe *that* is what "they" (the press or, more specifically, Biden's press handlers) are trying to cover-up or gloss-over.

    It's certainly getting harder to tell what's real, what's Narrative,
    what's real but warped to fit the narrative. The Elitists are well known
    for never letting an opportunity go to waste.

    True. I turned on the local news this morning, and the train wreck was a
    top story. It was all still the same report, though... government official says everything OK, townspeople still angry... except they added that some government medical response team was going to be there to try to put the
    town at ease.

    Last night I saw a report that included current drone footage. The crash
    is cleaned off the track, although there are still some deformed and
    damaged railcars nearby. It looked like the track had been rebuilt or, at least, freshly ballasted.

    There may turn out to be negligence on the part of the railroad (I have not heard what started the derailment) but there is something I am not seeing
    in any of the reports. If it is something that is being transported in
    bulk, and it was not being transported by the railroad, the ratio of
    railcar to semi-truck is usually 1x3 or 1x4. In other words, if you don't
    like hazardous chemicals being moved by train, you'd better count on 3 or 4 semis sharing your public roads, right next to you, per every railcar.

    A 100 car unit train = 300 or 400 semi-trucks.

    Rail is still the safest way to transport such things.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron L. on Sat Feb 18 16:26:09 2023
    There's a lack of coverage about the covid "vaccine" not being a vaccine.

    That's been the case for a while now. But we now know that lack of coverage to be active censorship.

    It's a conspiracy. Corporations like Google are conspirators. No "theory" needed.

    As Joe Lynn Turner recently said: "The difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is about 6 months."

    And it's why I stopped watching the Propaganda Ministry (aka "mainstream" media) and sought out alternative news sources.

    I watch Wheel of Fortune, so I often end up getting propagated by ABC news
    when I tune to the channel too early. David Muir is a good liar! He keeps a very straight face while saying very misleading phrases.

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Sun Feb 19 13:41:01 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    True. I turned on the local news this morning, and the train wreck was
    a top story. It was all still the same report, though... government official says everything OK, townspeople still angry... except they
    added that some government medical response team was going to be there
    to try to put the town at ease.

    Interesting, last I heard FEMA declined to send any aid. For "government medical response", which "government"? Local, state, federal?

    And, of course, are any of these people who claim everything's OK actually drinking the water?

    Last night I saw a report that included current drone footage. The
    crash is cleaned off the track, although there are still some deformed
    and damaged railcars nearby. It looked like the track had been rebuilt or, at least, freshly ballasted.

    Ya, that sounds like a normal derailment process. Often, they will just push the cars off the right-of-way and come back later (sometimes decades later) and pick up the wreck.

    There may turn out to be negligence on the part of the railroad (I have not heard what started the derailment)

    Ya, that lack of investigation is giving rise to sabotage rumors.

    But any focus on the derailment is just a smoke screen. We do need to know why that happened, but the important question is why they decided to burn all those toxic chemicals and why they sill insist that it was safer.


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  • From MIKE POWELL@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sun Feb 19 09:18:00 2023
    So I believe *that* is what "they" (the press or, more specifically, Biden's press handlers) are trying to cover-up or gloss-over.

    It's certainly getting harder to tell what's real, what's Narrative,
    what's real but warped to fit the narrative. The Elitists are well known
    for never letting an opportunity go to waste.

    There is another story that has fallen out of the news cycles, at least locally, that feels "burried." What is happening to the kid that ran that fradulent crypto scheme and donated his profits to democrat candidates?
    You know, the one that was first or second on the top 2022 donor list with George Soros.

    That one has gone quiet.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sun Feb 19 18:27:00 2023
    True. I turned on the local news this morning, and the train wreck was a top story. It was all still the same report, though... government official says everything OK, townspeople still angry... except they added that some government medical response team was going to be there to try to put the town at ease.

    Interesting, last I heard FEMA declined to send any aid. For "government medical response", which "government"? Local, state, federal?

    Yes, I saw that article posted earlier in misc.transport.rail.americas.
    Biden said that the accident did not qualify for FEMA aid. The report I
    saw on Saturday made it sound like federal medical response, but maybe it
    was state or local level. With the area it is in (small town), I am
    guessing it'd be state.

    And, of course, are any of these people who claim everything's OK actually drinking the water?

    The report did not say they were. I am guessing that some of them were
    not on site, either, so I would guess not.

    There may turn out to be negligence on the part of the railroad (I have not heard what started the derailment)

    Ya, that lack of investigation is giving rise to sabotage rumors.

    There was a report on the Weather Channel (why them I don't know?) that was posted the week after the derailment that showed supposed security cam
    footage from ~20 miles away. That footage showed one of the cars was
    sparking and possibly on fire. That would play along with the
    investigation into whether or not one of the cars had an axle issue.

    But any focus on the derailment is just a smoke screen. We do need to know
    h
    that happened, but the important question is why they decided to burn all
    hos
    toxic chemicals and why they sill insist that it was safer.

    The last report I saw (and others before it) indicated that allowing them
    to drain from the cars and burn was better than keeping them contained in
    the cars and exploding due to the existing fire.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to MIKE POWELL on Mon Feb 20 07:48:05 2023
    MIKE POWELL wrote to Dr. What <=-

    There is another story that has fallen out of the news cycles, at least locally, that feels "burried." What is happening to the kid that ran
    that fradulent crypto scheme and donated his profits to democrat candidates? You know, the one that was first or second on the top 2022 donor list with George Soros.

    That one has gone quiet.

    Yup. I don't even hear about that one on the alternate news sources.

    Distractions upon distractions, with some redirections in the mix.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Mon Feb 20 07:48:05 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Interesting, last I heard FEMA declined to send any aid. For "government medical response", which "government"? Local, state, federal?

    Yes, I saw that article posted earlier in misc.transport.rail.americas. Biden said that the accident did not qualify for FEMA aid. The report
    I saw on Saturday made it sound like federal medical response, but
    maybe it was state or local level. With the area it is in (small
    town), I am guessing it'd be state.

    The reason that I ask about the gov't level is the trust factor. We can be resonably certain that the federal level will just tow the Narrative. The local level will probably be more trustworthy. The state gov't seems like
    a group that would try to sweep things under the rug, but I don't have good information about that.

    The report did not say they were. I am guessing that some of them were not on site, either, so I would guess not.

    Then we can safely ignore those people.

    There was a report on the Weather Channel (why them I don't know?) that was posted the week after the derailment that showed supposed security
    cam footage from ~20 miles away. That footage showed one of the cars
    was sparking and possibly on fire. That would play along with the investigation into whether or not one of the cars had an axle issue.

    Ya, but railroads have sensors in place to detect that. 20 miles away?
    The engineer would have known much sooner than that and stopped the train before there was a big problem.

    The last report I saw (and others before it) indicated that allowing
    them to drain from the cars and burn was better than keeping them contained in the cars and exploding due to the existing fire.

    That's the excuse that I heard too. I wonder what "experts" they were talking to. The ones that are outstanding in the fields, or the ones chosen for their intersectionality and are just out, standing in their fields.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Mon Feb 20 16:39:00 2023
    There was a report on the Weather Channel (why them I don't know?) that was posted the week after the derailment that showed supposed security cam footage from ~20 miles away. That footage showed one of the cars was sparking and possibly on fire. That would play along with the investigation into whether or not one of the cars had an axle issue.

    Ya, but railroads have sensors in place to detect that. 20 miles away?
    The engineer would have known much sooner than that and stopped the train before there was a big problem.

    Yes, hot box sensors. I am not certain how far they are apart, i.e. in
    miles. Supposedly, the train did pass at least one and it was not working.
    The train crew was not aware of that fact. Part of the recent labor dispute was that the railroads want to start staffing trains with only 1 person, the engineer. That means one less set of eyes on things. IIRC, it is/was the conductor's responsibility to watch stuff like that.

    I don't know if the new staffing suggestion went into effect or not but, if
    it did, there are no more conductors on many trains.

    I almost attended CSX conductor school back in the 1990's. Realizing how
    many responsibilities a conductor has on a modern 2-person crew really made
    me reconsider doing so.

    The last report I saw (and others before it) indicated that allowing them to drain from the cars and burn was better than keeping them contained in the cars and exploding due to the existing fire.

    That's the excuse that I heard too. I wonder what "experts" they were
    alking
    to. The ones that are outstanding in the fields, or the ones chosen for
    heir
    intersectionality and are just out, standing in their fields.

    Not sure. They made it sound like it was the railroad's decision, which
    would make me think they had an idea of what was being hauled and what they thought was best. If it was the government, I would expect it to be more likely the "out, standing" variety. :)


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Mon Feb 20 16:17:00 2023
    The reason that I ask about the gov't level is the trust factor. We can be resonably certain that the federal level will just tow the Narrative. The local level will probably be more trustworthy. The state gov't seems like
    a group that would try to sweep things under the rug, but I don't have good information about that.

    I think that depends on what state, and maybe what locality you are in
    within that state. I think our state does an OK job... I would trust
    locals over them in many areas, but not in others like Louisville. I would very much trust the state over them. Probably Lexington also.

    But even that would depend on which state cabinet/agency you are dealing
    with. In some case, I probably would trust Louisville over a particular agency.

    I don't know enough about Ohio's government to know.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Tue Feb 21 08:33:39 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Yes, hot box sensors. I am not certain how far they are apart, i.e. in miles. Supposedly, the train did pass at least one and it was not working. The train crew was not aware of that fact.

    But this is another red flag. Hot box detectors broadcast their findings over a normal radio. Rail fans often tune into these because it can tell them when a train is coming.

    For an engineer to not notice one is "missing" is certainly strange.

    Part of the recent
    labor dispute was that the railroads want to start staffing trains with only 1 person, the engineer.

    That's not recent. 1 person trains have been the norm for a while now, at least on many other railroads.

    That's why engines are equiped with a mechanism to make the engineer prove
    that he's still awake. They have to do things like acknowledge signals
    or the train automatically goes into emergency breaking. I'm not sure if
    the hot box detector is part of that, though. But I would think it should be.

    Not sure. They made it sound like it was the railroad's decision,
    which would make me think they had an idea of what was being hauled and what they thought was best. If it was the government, I would expect
    it to be more likely the "out, standing" variety. :)

    Which makes me think along the lines of: the railroad **thought** they knew what they were hauling, but someone sent some cars with stuff that wasn't recorded. After that, it was a series of making decisions without 100%
    of the available information.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Tue Feb 21 16:18:00 2023
    But this is another red flag. Hot box detectors broadcast their findings
    ver
    a normal radio. Rail fans often tune into these because it can tell them
    hen
    a train is coming.

    For an engineer to not notice one is "missing" is certainly strange.

    Indeed. Supposedly, the dispatchers knew one was not working.

    Part of the recent
    labor dispute was that the railroads want to start staffing trains with only 1 person, the engineer.

    That's not recent. 1 person trains have been the norm for a while now, at least on many other railroads.

    That's why engines are equiped with a mechanism to make the engineer prove that he's still awake. They have to do things like acknowledge signals
    or the train automatically goes into emergency breaking. I'm not sure if
    the hot box detector is part of that, though. But I would think it should
    e.

    IIRC, and ironically, some passenger trains are 1-person in the cab. I
    didn't think that freight trains did that. Maybe they do but, if true, it should not be.

    Not sure. They made it sound like it was the railroad's decision,
    which would make me think they had an idea of what was being hauled and what they thought was best. If it was the government, I would expect
    it to be more likely the "out, standing" variety. :)

    Which makes me think along the lines of: the railroad **thought** they knew what they were hauling, but someone sent some cars with stuff that wasn't recorded. After that, it was a series of making decisions without 100%
    of the available information.

    Maybe. I would be surprised they didn't know what they were hauling, but
    not shocked.

    Are you a railfan? I have been trying to get back into model RRing for a
    while now, but never seem to feel up to it after work. That should change
    soon enough. :)


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Wed Feb 22 07:29:15 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    IIRC, and ironically, some passenger trains are 1-person in the cab. I didn't think that freight trains did that. Maybe they do but, if true,
    it should not be.

    It depends. For lines that need to make lots of stops and set out cars to many places, there will be more than 1 person in the cab. But if the train is just going from Yard A to Yard B 3 states away, then 1 person is all that's needed.

    Maybe. I would be surprised they didn't know what they were hauling,
    but not shocked.

    At this point, I wouldn't be surprised either. So much is happening outside the public eye - and in outside of official oversight - today.

    Are you a railfan? I have been trying to get back into model RRing for
    a while now, but never seem to feel up to it after work. That should change soon enough. :)

    I was a big railfan, but today not so much. No trains in my local area anymore.

    I mainly enjoy watching videos of trains where I used to live (since there are plenty of railfans still there) and I've always been interested in "industrial archeology", so I like reading up on rail systems that served things like old mines.


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  • From MIKE POWELL@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Thu Feb 23 15:50:00 2023
    I was a big railfan, but today not so much. No trains in my local area anymore.

    That is too bad. I can actually see a former Class 1 mainline from the
    front of my house (at least, during the times of year when the leaves are gone!). It is a shortline now that sees 2-4 trains a day running between Lexington and the Louisville area.

    I mainly enjoy watching videos of trains where I used to live (since there are
    plenty of railfans still there) and I've always been interested in "industrial
    archeology", so I like reading up on rail systems that served things like old mines.

    I like watching videos of older trains, and engines... especially the
    minority builders like ALCo and Baldwin that are no more. I also enjoy the industrial bit of it. One of my first jobs was at a meat packing plant
    that used to do a lot of rail business. By the time I got there, they only moved tank cars, but there were still some old reefers parked on the
    grounds, and they had an old Plymouth switcher that you could see the US
    ARMY markings bleeding through the coat of paint they had on it.

    That company eventually went out of business (they still do sales, but
    don't make their own products). The building was turned into an event location. My hope is to one day get invited to something held there so I
    can see how they changed it all. :)

    Living in Kentucky, I also like learning about the railroad relationship
    with mining.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to MIKE POWELL on Fri Feb 24 07:28:58 2023
    MIKE POWELL wrote to Dr. What <=-

    That is too bad. I can actually see a former Class 1 mainline from the front of my house (at least, during the times of year when the leaves
    are gone!). It is a shortline now that sees 2-4 trains a day running between Lexington and the Louisville area.

    Ya, it is. I've been near trains pretty much all my live. My home town still has a CSX line running through. When I visited my grandparents, they were 2 blocks from the C&NW ore yard - and there was another short line near by too.

    But where I live now, the tracks have long been converted to trails. The nearest trains are a good 30 minutes away, in a part of the city I really don't want to go to.

    I like watching videos of older trains, and engines...

    I still have a bunch of those videos I purchased, most of the areas that I lived in. I still enjoy playing them while I'm doing other things.

    the industrial bit of it. One of my first jobs was at a meat packing plant that used to do a lot of rail business. By the time I got there, they only moved tank cars, but there were still some old reefers parked

    I remember a while back, one of my co-workers told us he was quitting. As usual, we asked where he was going. He said "Loram". I was the only one in the group who recognized the name. "The rail grinding company?!" He laughed and said yes. He was going to be working on the computers for those machines (since the process is mostly automated). Lucky guy.


    ... Things working well, no problems. Time to upgrade.
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Fri Feb 24 16:07:00 2023
    Ya, it is. I've been near trains pretty much all my live. My home town
    till
    has a CSX line running through. When I visited my grandparents, they were 2 blocks from the C&NW ore yard - and there was another short line near by too.

    My great-grandmother's house had either an L&N or a Illinois Central line running through the front yard. She passed when I was young. If it was
    L&N, it is still likely there, as a CSX line. My aunt and uncle near Grand Rapids also had a line that ran along their property line. I think it was probably Grand Trunk. It is a trail now.

    I don't remember being at great-grandma's at the right time to see a train,
    but I do remember watching them out the window in Michigan.

    But where I live now, the tracks have long been converted to trails. The nearest trains are a good 30 minutes away, in a part of the city I really
    on'
    want to go to.

    There were some places around Louisville that would have been great for
    train watching if they were not in such bad areas. Southern's main yard in town was in a bad area, and I think IC's was also.

    I remember a while back, one of my co-workers told us he was quitting. As usual, we asked where he was going. He said "Loram". I was the only one in the group who recognized the name. "The rail grinding company?!" He laughed and said yes. He was going to be working on the computers for those machines (since the process is mostly automated). Lucky guy.

    Yeah, that would be an interesting job. The track by the building where I
    work is a stub where RJ Corman sometimes parks some interesting equipment.
    I have seen a Loram machine. Was upset I didn't have my camera, or even my phone, to get some photos of it.

    They used to park cars there for the Derby Train, but it has been a few
    years since I have seen them there.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Never fight with a bear in his own cave.
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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Sat Feb 25 08:13:14 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    My great-grandmother's house had either an L&N or a Illinois Central
    line running through the front yard. She passed when I was young. If
    it was L&N, it is still likely there, as a CSX line. My aunt and uncle near Grand Rapids also had a line that ran along their property line.
    I think it was probably Grand Trunk. It is a trail now.

    I'm in the Grand Rapids area now. They seemed to have converted most of those old lines to trails.

    The east/west one west of Grand Rapids city was Grant Trunk. Supposedly you can bike all the way to Muskegon.

    The north/south one goes from the north end of Grand Rapids city all the way to Cadillac. I think that one was Pere Marquette.

    I think there are at least a couple more, but those are the ones I'm familiar with.

    There were some places around Louisville that would have been great for train watching if they were not in such bad areas. Southern's main
    yard in town was in a bad area, and I think IC's was also.

    Even back in our grandparent's day, the areas near the trains was not a good area. But I think it's much worse today.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sat Feb 25 09:38:00 2023
    I'm in the Grand Rapids area now. They seemed to have converted most of those
    old lines to trails.

    The east/west one west of Grand Rapids city was Grant Trunk. Supposedly you can bike all the way to Muskegon.

    The north/south one goes from the north end of Grand Rapids city all the way t
    Cadillac. I think that one was Pere Marquette.

    Now I am curious, I will have to look it up in some old atlases I have and
    see which one it is. They lived North of the city, near Belmont.

    There were some places around Louisville that would have been great for train watching if they were not in such bad areas. Southern's main
    yard in town was in a bad area, and I think IC's was also.

    Even back in our grandparent's day, the areas near the trains was not a good area. But I think it's much worse today.

    In the cases of my relatives, they were out in what would have been
    considered "the country" back then but, yeah, the city areas I mention above were bad then and much worse now.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Sun Feb 26 12:15:25 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Now I am curious, I will have to look it up in some old atlases I have
    and see which one it is. They lived North of the city, near Belmont.

    Belmont is on the old Pere Marquette route from Grand Rapids to Cadillac.

    I used to bike through there all the time on the trail. It's now the Fred Meijer White Pine trail.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sun Feb 26 18:17:00 2023
    Now I am curious, I will have to look it up in some old atlases I have and see which one it is. They lived North of the city, near Belmont.

    Belmont is on the old Pere Marquette route from Grand Rapids to Cadillac.

    I used to bike through there all the time on the trail. It's now the Fred Meijer White Pine trail.

    Yep, that is the one! I remember that name. I have walked small lengths
    of it a few times. It is nice but I miss the trains.


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