Hello All,

The prolog has been changed: R30 Switzerland has been added, and in some places the wording has been changed.

In R28 TRACE flags have been added.
And a new node: ,2040,Magic_Systems,Katwijk,Leo_Barnhoorn,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,IBN:bbs.magic-systems.net
Connect with Binkd/1.1a-112/Win32.

All "MOB" nodes in net 303 have been made Pvt.

Node 2:341/200 has the PING flag added.
The PONG arrived crash. The Trace from 2:341/66, arrived routed.

New node in net 400: ,419,Givatayim_Station,Givatayim,Pavel_Ferencz,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IEM:shpala.fido@gmail.com
Didn't test it...

New node in net 5035: ,63,Cleverfox_Station,Kursk,Vladimir_Goncharov,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,IBN,INA:fido.cleverfox.ru
Connect with Binkd/1.0.4/FreeBSD. I think it's better to put the IBN behind the INA.

1:1/0 And his AKA's have the V90C and TRACE flags added. And the baudrate is now 33600 instead of 9600.

New node in net 120: ,616,Cold_Fusion_BBS,Grand_Rapids_MI,Alexander_Grotewohl,-Unpublished-,300,CM,INA:cfbbs.net
Just an INA. But there is a connect with Mystic on the binkp port.

In R12 all 9600 baudrates have been changed to 300 for the ION's.

Host 142, Andrew Leary, has the phonenumber and flags removed, and the TRACE flag added, also for his other AKA's.

Host 153, Alan Iason, has the PING flag added, also for his AKA.
Tests this week were succesfull, if the "right" routes are used. Unfortunately there seem to be some broken routes in Z1.

New nodes in net 801: ,10,SoftSolutions_BBS,Santana_de_Parnaiba_SP,Alexandre_Figueiredo,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:softsolutions.net.br
Connect with BinkIT. ,202,Baffa_BBS,Rio_de_Janeiro_RJ,Augusto_Baffa,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:baffa.zapto.org
Connect with BinkIT.

In R90 the RC has the phonenumber and flags removed, also for his AKA's.
He has taken over the Hub in net 900.
But his mailers config still needs to be updated for this: called 4:900/100@fidonet, but remote has no such AKA
The node of the previous hub is now Pvt.
Node 102 in net 900 now has an IBN flag: Connect with Mystic.
And a new node: ,107,Darkgame_BBS,Vicente_Lopez,Arturo_Busleiman,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:darkgame.buanzo.org
Connect with Mystic.

In net 902 also some changes. 4 New nodes: ,6,Argen-X_BBS,La_Plata_BA,Eduardo_Castillo,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:argenx.kozow.com
Timeout on IPv4 and IPv6. ,7,Reisub_BBS,Junin_BA,Fabian_Bonetti,-Unpublished-,300,VM,IBN:reisub.nsupdate.info
Connect with Mystic. Pvt,10,The_Haunted_Castle_BBS,La_Plata_BA,Javier_Lopez,-Unpublished-,300 Pvt,25,Fernando_Toledo,Avellaneda_BA,Fernando_Toledo,-Unpublished-,300

No longer Pvt: ,19,Fercho_BBS,La_Plata_BA,Fernando_Miculan,-Unpublished-,33600,CM,XA,IMI:fido@fcmsistemas.com.ar,IBN:ferchobbs.ddns.net
Connect with Argus/3.210.


In the Z2PNT list Tommi Koivula has added the PING flag to 2 of his point addresses.
The PONG's and TRACE's arrived quick...

Node 2:341/66 has 3 new points and 1 removed.


Regards, NPC.


--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: NPC Station (2:280/464)

Hi there!

The prolog has been changed: R30 Switzerland has been added, and in
some places the wording has been changed.

Thanks for pointing this out. I somehow think the prolog should not list switzerland in the list of GDPR affected countries as switzerland is not a member of the EU. The EU regulations affects only swiss companies who offer paid services to clients within the EU.

Down to the details, FidoNet in switzerland is not:
- Having an office in the EU area
- Not having EU residents as clients (it's not clear if non-paying entities are clients not not)
- Not offering data processing services in the financial sector.
- Not profiling EU resident.

Therefore, GDPR does not apply to FidoNet Region 2:30.

However, as switzerland is doing every rubbish the EU dictates, we can leave it in the prolog, as sooner or later it will be valid.

So, no work for you, Ward. :-)

Matthias
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: MHS Systems (2:301/1)

Hello Matthias,

On 2021-04-23 18:51:47, you wrote to me:

The prolog has been changed: R30 Switzerland has been added, and in
some places the wording has been changed.

Thanks for pointing this out. I somehow think the prolog should not list switzerland in the list of GDPR affected countries as switzerland is not a member of the EU. The EU regulations affects only swiss companies who offer
paid services to clients within the EU.

Down to the details, FidoNet in switzerland is not:
- Having an office in the EU area
- Not having EU residents as clients (it's not clear if non-paying entities
are clients not not) - Not offering data processing services in the financial sector. - Not profiling EU resident.

Therefore, GDPR does not apply to FidoNet Region 2:30.

Interesting!

However, as switzerland is doing every rubbish the EU dictates, we can leave it in the prolog, as sooner or later it will be valid.

;-)

So, no work for you, Ward. :-)

You will have to forward your message to him, because afaik he's not connected to this area...

Regards, NPC.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: NPC Station (2:280/464)

Hello Matthias,

On Friday April 23 2021 18:51, you wrote to Nodelist Police Commissioner:

Thanks for pointing this out. I somehow think the prolog should not
list switzerland in the list of GDPR affected countries as switzerland
is not a member of the EU. The EU regulations affects only swiss
companies who offer paid services to clients within the EU.

I am not a lawyer, I will never be a lawyer and I don't even want to be a lawyer. Having said that, it is my understanding that the scope of the GDPR is not limited to organisations offering paid services, it also applies to volunteer organisations where no money changes hands. Such as Fidonet.

According to the GDPR one may only ask for and store data needed to provide the service unless explicit permission has been given. Most of the data in the nodelist are required to make it work. Node number, host name or IP address and the flags are needed to make the connection. What is no longer needed in the age of Fido over IP, is the location. One can argue if it was really needed in the POTS age with cost of calling depending on location, but I have no doubt that today it is not needed to participate in Fidonet.
So my policy is that for sysops who have not given explicit permission to list their place of residence in the nodelist, to use "NL" in the location field.

I can not judge if this applies in Switserland, as you say Switserland is not part of the EU.

Down to the details, FidoNet in switzerland is not:
- Having an office in the EU area
- Not having EU residents as clients

How about net 303? The Hrusca's are from Romenia. They are EU citzens...

(it's not clear if non-paying entities are clients not not)

See above.

- Not offering data processing services
in the financial sector. - Not profiling EU resident.

Therefore, GDPR does not apply to FidoNet Region 2:30.

Are you sure? Have you asked a lawyer?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nodelist Police Station (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

I am not a lawyer, I will never be a lawyer and I don't even want to
be a lawyer. Having said that, it is my understanding that the scope
of the GDPR is not limited to organisations offering paid services, it also applies to volunteer organisations where no money changes hands.
Such as Fidonet.

That's disputed, at least here in switzerland. Ahhhh, that whole GDPR thing sucks.

Down to the details, FidoNet in switzerland is not:
- Having an office in the EU area
- Not having EU residents as clients

How about net 303? The Hrusca's are from Romenia. They are EU
citzens...

... but swiss residents. And that matters. It's a matter of geographic
location and not citizenship.

Therefore, GDPR does not apply to FidoNet Region 2:30.

Are you sure? Have you asked a lawyer?

I've done the DGPR compliance on my previous job, so yes, i've asked
a lawyer, even several of them. Instead of better answers i've got
more questions. As long as there are no cases in switzerland, we have
no real point of reference. We have a lot of opinions, but even among
the swiss lawyers, the opinions are "controversial", to say it a nice way.

As one consequence of GDPR, we had to cancel the contracts with all our
EU clients, but that's another story. I better don't tell more about this
here, or i might need a lawyer by myself. Ooops!

I was lucky enough to leave the company before the thing got hot, but
as far as i've heard from my successor, nothing happened so far.

A good friend of mine is specialized in exactly these things, but i don't
want to bother her with FidoNet, as she's not working for free. (In fact,
she owes me a favour, but i don't want to waste that for this non-issue).

Matthias
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: MHS Systems (2:301/1)

Hello Matthias,

On Saturday April 24 2021 11:58, you wrote to me:

it is my understanding that the scope of the GDPR is not limited to
organisations offering paid services, it also applies to volunteer
organisations where no money changes hands. Such as Fidonet.

That's disputed, at least here in switzerland.

Swiss lawyers can dispute it in Switserland, but when push comes to shove it will be decided in the EU court and that court will rule according to the EU interpretation of the rules, not the Swiss interpretation. What it boils down to is: "wan't to play our game? play by our rules".

Ahhhh, that whole GDPR thing sucks.

I can understand why you see it that way, but I beg to differ. As an EU citizen I am happy that the EU protects my privacy against ruthless data horders not only in the EU, but outside the EU as well. That it can sometimes be inconvenient when I am on the data gathering side is something that I accept.

Therefore, GDPR does not apply to FidoNet Region 2:30.

Are you sure? Have you asked a lawyer?

I've done the DGPR compliance on my previous job, so yes, i've asked
a lawyer, even several of them. Instead of better answers i've got
more questions. As long as there are no cases in switzerland, we have
no real point of reference. We have a lot of opinions, but even among
the swiss lawyers, the opinions are "controversial", to say it a nice
way.

That is to be expected. As I said, wehen push comes to shove, it will be the EU court that decides.

As one consequence of GDPR, we had to cancel the contracts with all
our EU clients,

If the organisation can not or will not follow the rules of the GDPR that can indeed be a consequence. Play our game? Follow our rules. It is a choice...

but that's another story. I better don't tell more about this here, or
i might need a lawyer by myself. Ooops!

I agree with you that R30 probably does not belong in the list of countries where the GDPR applies to Fidonet. The list as published in the header of the nodelist.

Let's leave it at that before we drift too far from the topic of this conference.

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nodelist Police Station (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

Swiss lawyers can dispute it in Switserland, but when push comes to
shove it will be decided in the EU court and that court will rule according to the EU interpretation of the rules, not the Swiss interpretation. What it boils down to is: "wan't to play our game?
play by our rules".

EU courts have no say in switzerland. That's a very interesting topic
here as well, switzerland is waiting for the first case.

Ahhhh, that whole GDPR thing sucks.

I can understand why you see it that way, but I beg to differ. As an
EU citizen I am happy that the EU protects my privacy against ruthless data horders not only in the EU, but outside the EU as well. That it
can sometimes be inconvenient when I am on the data gathering side is something that I accept.

Data hoarding is one thing and i agree with you.
Blocking legitimate handling of client data is something else.

You don't want to know what an ISP here HAS to do and what it is
not allowed to do. Depending on who i nthe government you talk,
you get conflicting instructions.

If the organisation can not or will not follow the rules of the GDPR
that can indeed be a consequence. Play our game? Follow our rules. It
is a choice...

That's true, but it was the german clients who complained about
no longer being able to receive their services from switzerland.

I agree with you that R30 probably does not belong in the list of countries where the GDPR applies to Fidonet. The list as published in
the header of the nodelist.
Let's leave it at that before we drift too far from the topic of this conference.

Fully agree. :-)

Best wishes,
Matthias
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: MHS Systems (2:301/1)

Hello Matthias,

On Sunday April 25 2021 20:12, you wrote to me:

What it boils down to is: "wan't to play our game? play by our
rules".

EU courts have no say in switzerland. That's a very interesting topic
here as well, switzerland is waiting for the first case.

EU courts have no say in Switserland. But Switserland is not an isolated universe. It has borders and every border has two sides. Both sides have a say about what crosses that border. Be it people, goods or data.

Ahhhh, that whole GDPR thing sucks.

I can understand why you see it that way, but I beg to differ. As
an EU citizen I am happy that the EU protects my privacy against
ruthless data horders not only in the EU, but outside the EU as
well. That it can sometimes be inconvenient when I am on the data
gathering side is something that I accept.

Data hoarding is one thing and i agree with you. Blocking legitimate handling of client data is something else.

The whole idea of GDPR is to define what is "legitimate handling of client data" and not let the handler decide what is legitimate and what is not.

You don't want to know what an ISP here HAS to do and what it is
not allowed to do. Depending on who i nthe government you talk,
you get conflicting instructions.

That only goes to show that jura is not math. ;-)

If the organisation can not or will not follow the rules of the
GDPR that can indeed be a consequence. Play our game? Follow our
rules. It is a choice...

That's true, but it was the german clients who complained about
no longer being able to receive their services from switzerland.

I can't comment on that because I do not know the circumstances.

I agree with you that R30 probably does not belong in the list of
countries where the GDPR applies to Fidonet. The list as
published in the header of the nodelist. Let's leave it at that
before we drift too far from the topic of this conference.

Fully agree. :-)

The exception might be when a sysops in R30 accepts points that reside in the EU.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nodelist Police Station (2:280/5555)