• Makenl and bad segments...

    From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Andrew Leary on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hi Andrew,

    11 Dec 14 14:11, you wrote to all:

    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously
    corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full of
    non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the Zone1
    dailylist.

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment for
    R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    Can you provide logfiles so I can investigate this further?

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)

    Take care,
    Janis

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  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Janis Kracht on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hello, Janis Kracht.
    On 11/12/14 14.11 you wrote:

    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously
    corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full
    of non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    Allow8bit ?

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the
    Zone1 dailylist.

    Not just ;E lines ?

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment
    for R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    I think errflags catch all bugs in z2 :)

    But yes, 8bit is not always good :(

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  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Andrew Leary on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hello, Andrew Leary.
    On 11/12/14 18.34 you wrote:

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)
    Got them. NetMail on it's way to you for more info.

    Sad other nc does not benefit from netmail :(

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Kees,

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that that requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's collate their segement by other means and do not provide a valid CRC in the first
    line.

    Running it through ERRFLAGS prior to submitting would take care of that.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    my wish for 2015 is to see makenl does not create invalid nodelists, errflags is good, but that programing should have being added to makenl long time ago

    I will count on my North American brethren and sistern to laugh that away...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Kees,

    The general reaction to inclusion is, that a higher level C should not
    make any changes to the segments offered for inclusion.

    I tend to disagree.

    When I became ZC in 1994 auto-correction of segments in Z2 was already part of the deal by the then previous-ZC. I think it started with Felix Kasza.

    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hello Ward!

    02 Jan 2015 15:57, Ward Dossche wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    I will count on my North American brethren and sistern to laugh that away...

    keep smiling :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Just write a proposal and submit it to the FTSC and we'll try to evaluate the merits of it.

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not
    documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Just write a proposal and submit it to the FTSC and we'll try to
    evaluate the merits of it.

    My headaches are totally different than the ones of FTSC-members.

    Besides, Roy claims I can't spell.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hello, Ward Dossche.
    On 02/01/15 20.26 you wrote:

    My headaches are totally different than the ones of FTSC-members.
    its just best pratice, not must
    Besides, Roy claims I can't spell.
    not alone here either

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Joe,

    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not
    documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Perhaps because it was ONLY being done in Z2, and no other zone?

    2 things come to mind:

    * The FTSC has documented pet projects of individual members in the past with
    absolute zero-relevance. There even is the case of someone who got himself
    elected years ago to push something through that no-one cared about and
    then quit.

    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Irrelevant. What's relevant is that it's actually something that can be put into a technical definition file.

    As I said before, if Ward had put it into writing and submitted it to the FTSC, it would have been judged by it's merits. Not that I think it would have any real value to add to our FTN -- but at least he could have given it a try. We've seen far more queer proposals during the decades... 8-)

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    I have no doubt about that. That however is political, and not
    technical.

    Yet at that moment in time, the members went for it.

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Just so you are aware, there is a file-distribution for ERRFLAGS.ZC2 which is the parameter file in use here. Whenever there's a change, several *Cs update their systems, so it's not just a ZC2-thingie.

    (yeah I know what you think of Z4)

    Z4 is a joke ... 1 active node. Basically that one node operates as a point of Janis' system or mine, depending how you look at it.

    Everyone knows its presence is a political thing too ... even the deniers know it, but will deny that too...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Why. The FTSC documents general practice. If it is only done in one
    zone, it is not general practice.

    Not even if that zone covers 80% of the membership?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Joe,

    Not even if that zone covers 80% of the membership?

    Does it really though?

    Actually, it's irrelevant.

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less than 50% active
    people than those listed in it. What the distribution would be, I don't know.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Ward Dossche wrote to Joe Delahaye <=-

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less than
    50% active people than those listed in it. What the distribution would
    be, I don't know.

    I've got 5 MIA nodes out of 26 distinct nodes in my region. Roughly 20%?



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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    On Tue, 06 Jan 2015, Joe Delahaye wrote to mark lewis:

    that said, eliminating duplicates, there's 1948 operator names
    listed in nodelist.006... that's with eliminating obvious
    non-names... there's only one or two that may be the same person
    listed with two variations of their name...

    eg: FA_Stare Fred_A_Stare Fred_Stare (ficticious example)

    Still, I think there is a lot of dead wood in the nodelist, at
    least in Z1 and 2. I have no idea about Z3

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was the ability to send and receive netmail... right?

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    On 01/06/15, Kees van Eeten pondered and said...

    There is none in Z3, % wise Z4 tops all.

    Z3 is nice and tidy :-)

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  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/701 to mark lewis on Fri Jul 27 01:25:02 2018
    Hello mark,

    On 08 Jan 15 05:51, mark lewis wrote to Joe Delahaye:

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting
    posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a
    requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was
    the ability to send and receive netmail... right?

    If a system cannot be contacted, or does not contact his NC etc,
    I would consider that pretty dead in most cases. I have one or
    two nodes, but I occassionally see posts by them, so I know they
    are still alive.

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for a
    year or two while i was burnt out and staying away from it and most
    other electronics?? i /might/ have posted 5-10 messages in that
    period... i think i peeked in on the system once every 3 or 4
    months... it certainly wasn't dead or deadwood... it was very active processing and distributing mail and files...

    I think Joe's referring to the system in general, not the operator. If your mailer was answering as well as sending.. then it's not "dead wood". It's when you try to connect to a mailer for months and nothing responds, and doesn't poll you either.

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 13:49:58 2015
    Hello, Ward Dossche.
    On 01/01/15 14.06 you wrote:

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that
    that requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's
    collate their segement by other means and do not provide a valid
    CRC in the first line.
    Running it through ERRFLAGS prior to submitting would take care of
    that.

    my wish for 2015 is to see makenl does not create invalid nodelists, errflags is good, but that programing should have being added to makenl long time ago

    i think if error flags was coded in c then it would have being done when the code was shown, or if makenl was coded in pascal it would happend aswell very fast joining

    when there is 2 programs there will always be more then one error to fix, if there was just one program it would be less error

    oh well Gordon Ramsey, Jammie Oliver cooks better then i do :)

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