• Re: ncurses

    From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Sep 13 09:08:53 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-12 17:53:28, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    Interesting. I may have to check that theory later although the
    previous build with the older ncurses was also WIDEC only with
    symlinks forcing the issue.

    And FYI, I upgraded back to ncurses-6.0+20170902-1 which is the latest available in the Archlinux package manager, and while it looks gross without tmux, it looks great with it. ;)

    Strange, I also see a difference on a remote console (putty), when starting golded directly or in tmux. Although I already had most line drawing character showing correctly. But now for instance the character marking the current message in the message list is showing correctly. The Ctrl-Z key is now working
    to close and save the message you are editting.

    And the UTF-8 characters you sign your message with are now also showing up readable:

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    Are they quoted back alright?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Sep 13 09:04:41 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX

    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-12 17:53:28, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    This is without tmux...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Sep 13 09:18:08 2017
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-13 09:08:53, I wrote to you:

    Strange, I also see a difference on a remote console (putty), when starting golded directly or in tmux. Although I already had most line drawing character showing correctly. But now for instance the
    character marking the current message in the message list is showing correctly. The Ctrl-Z key is now working to close and save the
    message you are editting.

    However messages with "fancy" ascii drawings in for instance the STATS area are
    worse when shown from tmux + golded.

    Also starting golded like: 'tmux -c ge' doesn't work for me. Then the difference with my regular console is gone...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Sep 13 15:47:52 2017
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Wed Sep 13 2017 09:18:08, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Strange, I also see a difference on a remote console (putty),
    when starting golded directly or in tmux. Although I already had
    most line drawing character showing correctly. But now for
    instance the character marking the current message in the
    message list is showing correctly. The Ctrl-Z key is now working
    to close and save the message you are editting.

    However messages with "fancy" ascii drawings in for instance the STATS area are worse when shown from tmux + golded.

    To be honest, there's only a few echos that "fancy" ascii (ANSI) drawings are posted. I would rather be able to read/write UTF-8 than look at fancy stat screens.

    That's one thing nice about jamnntpd. You can force areas to be certain charsets. So for instance, I have all of them set to CP437, but then force most
    to use UTF-8 instead. I wish that was as easily doable with golded (I have yet to try moving things around into groups to attempt something like this - all I have right now is groups containing different networks).

    Also starting golded like: 'tmux -c ge' doesn't work for me. Then the difference with my regular console is gone...

    I tried the "-c" option as well, and it seemed like it reverted everything back
    to how my console displayed things without tmux. So now, I just run tmux, then run golded inside.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 09:02:39 2017
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-13 15:47:52, you wrote to me:

    However messages with "fancy" ascii drawings in for instance the
    STATS area are worse when shown from tmux + golded.

    To be honest, there's only a few echos that "fancy" ascii (ANSI) drawings are posted. I would rather be able to read/write UTF-8 than look at fancy stat screens.

    I'll keep an eye on the STATS area, so if it becomes unreadable because of tmux, that won't do for me...

    Also starting golded like: 'tmux -c ge' doesn't work for me. Then the
    difference with my regular console is gone...

    I tried the "-c" option as well, and it seemed like it reverted everything back to how my console displayed things without tmux. So now, I just run tmux, then run golded inside.

    If the -c option worked, I would have considered using tmux by default from my golded start script. But it's nice to have this option when I want/need to read
    messages with utf8... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 09:14:51 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-13 15:19:40, you wrote to me:

    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX

    Not a lot of conversation in LINUX, so since I was speaking directly to Maurice, I wrote it here instead. *shrug*

    These messages are about linux matters, so the LINUX area is appropriate. And Maurice is there too. ;)

    drawing character showing correctly. But now for instance the
    character marking the current message in the message list is showing
    correctly. The Ctrl-Z key is now working to close and save the message
    you are editting.

    Line drawing characters display fine in X (xterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc), but ever since I went strictly UTF-8 it wouldn't display them properly in a TTY until I started using tmux.

    As for the character marking the current message, you're referring to the actual arrow and not ">", right? That changed here as well.

    Yes the actual arrow. Without tmux there is just an extra space that makes the columns of that line not aligned properly (in my putty window)

    And by CTRL-Z I'm guessing you're referring to the internal golded
    editor?

    Yes.

    I don't use that here, so CTRL-X in nano or :x in vim. ;)

    Ok.

    And the UTF-8 characters you sign your message with are now also
    showing up readable:

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    Are they quoted back alright?

    Yes. And if you used an unicode capable editor you would know that! ;)

    It looked ok in golded under tmux on my setup, but you never know how it displays on other systems when it's send out...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 09:23:12 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-13 15:26:46, you wrote to me:

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    This is without tmux...

    Still quotes back fine. So at least you don't alter it like most others
    do!

    I'm not doing anything special, just reading/writing in golded-lnx...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Sep 14 11:39:05 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Maurice,

    On 2017-09-14 08:33:25, you wrote to me:

    BTW instead of using 'tmux -c ge' (gedlnx here) try using 'tmux new
    ge' instead.

    That also works, and I get the same effect (screen wise), as if starting 'ge' from within 'tmux' when started without options.

    It will automagically exit the tmux enviroment when exiting golded, or
    at least it does here.

    '-c' also closes tmux when you exit golded...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Sep 14 16:01:42 2017
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Thu Sep 14 2017 09:02:38, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    I'll keep an eye on the STATS area, so if it becomes unreadable
    because of tmux, that won't do for me...

    The stats themselves usually aren't altered very much, definitely still readable. It's just the ansi graphics around it (ie: graphs or status bars) that either disappears or is mangled. I don't have a problem reading most of the actual stats, though.

    I tried the "-c" option as well, and it seemed like it reverted
    everything back to how my console displayed things without tmux.
    So now, I just run tmux, then run golded inside.

    If the -c option worked, I would have considered using tmux by default from my golded start script. But it's nice to have this option when I want/need to read messages with utf8... ;)

    tmux new golded - is now my new golded script. This way works, whereas the -c option doesn't.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Sep 14 23:02:57 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Maurice,

    On 2017-09-14 16:38:29, you wrote to me:

    The real problem is with the typical ftn formats (eg Squish and Jam)
    and the editors relying on those formats.

    Afaik the message bases are character set agnostic, they just store bytes. It's
    the editors where the problem is...

    ... even text messaging without the need for ftn abandonware
    with all it's obsolete and/or corrupted so-called standards.

    Attacking windmills again? ;)


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 23:04:57 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-14 15:34:06, you wrote to me:

    You moved it, and other conversation may stem up from there. But I wouldn't expect others to move their conversation where you think it's appropriate. ;)

    This is and has been a "general discussion" echo ever since Carol stopped being ZC6, IIRC. So let's not start any Fidonet politics in here please, mmkay?

    There's no politics. Just crossposting to an area where there might be a more knowledgable and interested audience...

    Yes the actual arrow. Without tmux there is just an extra space that
    makes the columns of that line not aligned properly (in my putty
    window)

    What settings are you using in putty for line drawing characters? I had a ">" prior to using tmux. Then I had an arrow with screen, and now I
    believe
    I have a plus with tmux. ;)

    I won't be at that putty terminal until monday, so remind me then for an answer. ;)


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 23:09:29 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-14 15:40:34, you wrote to me:

    @CHRS: UTF-8 2

    Still quotes back fine. So at least you don't alter it like most
    others do!

    I'm not doing anything special, just reading/writing in golded-lnx...

    You should probably look into fixing that CHRS kludge though, though. It's easy. I'll send you the .chs file and you just plug it into your config:

    xlatcharset utf-8 utf-8 utf_utf.chs

    Ok, I could try that...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Sep 14 23:55:12 2017
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2017-09-14 16:01:42, you wrote to me:

    If the -c option worked, I would have considered using tmux by
    default from my golded start script. But it's nice to have this
    option when I want/need to read messages with utf8... ;)

    tmux new golded - is now my new golded script. This way works, whereas the -c option doesn't.

    For me too. But I'm not going to use tmux by default. But it's a neat trick if I want to read utf-8 chars properly! ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Sep 15 11:00:16 2017
    * Originally in ASIAN_LINK
    * Crossposted in LINUX
    Hi Maurice,

    On 2017-09-14 22:27:42, you wrote to me:

    It's the editors where the problem is...

    The problems wouldn't exist if it weren't for the formats.

    Let me repeat: "Afaik the message bases are character set agnostic, they just store bytes."


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)