• Apologies

    From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to All on Sun May 27 11:58:11 2018
    Ack.. My apologies for my renegade script.. Somehow the base index got scrambled and the script started posting to all the wrong areas.. I've
    disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Nick Andre: Your sending netmail from a different AKA so everything you sent
    me was sent to bad so I didn't even know about it until I actually looked at the bad packets sitting there and opening in text editor :/

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: internal dimension + idbbs.dlinkddns.com + port 59 (1:229/275)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dave Vandermeer on Sun May 27 12:24:10 2018
    On 27 May 18 11:58:11, Dave Vandermeer said the following to All:

    Ack.. My apologies for my renegade script.. Somehow the base index got scrambled and the script started posting to all the wrong areas.. I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Nick Andre: Your sending netmail from a different AKA so everything you sen me was sent to bad so I didn't even know about it until I actually looked a the bad packets sitting there and opening in text editor :/

    No problem bud... Glad to hear its fixed

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to Nick Andre on Sun May 27 12:44:20 2018
    On 05/27/18, Nick Andre said the following...

    No problem bud... Glad to hear its fixed

    Nick

    I need to scrap my current arealist and readd all my areas so the base index
    is proper.. it's a royal pain but mass import FTW. This shouldn't happen again

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: internal dimension + idbbs.dlinkddns.com + port 59 (1:229/275)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dave Vandermeer on Sun May 27 13:34:26 2018
    please also check your mystic setup for the binkp server... you have it forcing
    secure connections... you need to adjust that setting and only force secure sessions with your links in the config record for each of them...

    why do you need to adjust it? because no one can connect and send netmail unless they are in your config...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Warning: It is not for the easily offended or desperately sensitive.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Dave Vandermeer on Sun May 27 23:26:30 2018
    Hello Dave!

    27 May 18, Dave Vandermeer wrote to All:

    I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Thanks a lot! And happy fixing. ;)

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Dave Vandermeer on Sun May 27 14:46:01 2018
    Re: Apologies
    By: Dave Vandermeer to All on Sun May 27 2018 11:58 am

    Ack.. My apologies for my renegade script.. Somehow the base index got scrambled and the script started posting to all the wrong areas.. I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Don't feel bad, I think we've all been there (those of us who autopost at least). Quite a few years back I added and removed a few areas and didn't realize the autoposter was about to post my BBS ad to all the wrong areas. Well.. when the time came the deal was done.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... Press to test... <Click> Release to detonate...
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Alan Ianson on Mon May 28 13:24:00 2018
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dave Vandermeer <=-

    Don't feel bad, I think we've all been there (those of us who autopost
    at least). Quite a few years back I added and removed a few areas and didn't realize the autoposter was about to post my BBS ad to all the
    wrong areas. Well.. when the time came the deal was done.. :)

    Haha I think we've all done that at some stage. I remember when my maintenance settings were off back in the RA days, and I still had a number of areas in the Hudson message. And if a pile of echomail came in at once, the size exceeded 16MB and the messagebase got scrambled, causing all sorts of weird crossposts! And it was something I never found out about until after the fact (does "oh sh*t" come to mind? ;) ).

    Good to hear he's found the issue and is working on a permanent fix.


    ... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to mark lewis on Mon May 28 14:38:28 2018
    On 05/27/18, mark lewis said the following...

    please also check your mystic setup for the binkp server... you have it forcing secure connections... you need to adjust that setting and only force secure sessions with your links in the config record for each of them...

    I upgraded from an older release to a newer alpha and some of the new
    additions have not yet been looked at. I just dont have time right now. When
    I have a couple hours of uninterrupted time I will go through all my configs and make sure everything is set.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: internal dimension + idbbs.dlinkddns.com + port 59 (1:229/275)
  • From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to Kai Richter on Mon May 28 14:40:32 2018
    On 05/27/18, Kai Richter said the following...

    Hello Dave!

    27 May 18, Dave Vandermeer wrote to All:

    I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Thanks a lot! And happy fixing. ;)

    Regards

    Kai


    the base index got scrambled so it was posting into the base with ID36 which was always the ad spam echo.. but somehow the index got changed and ID36
    ended up being LINUX echo.. guess that'll learn me for upgrading from an
    older release to a newer alpha stable..

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: internal dimension + idbbs.dlinkddns.com + port 59 (1:229/275)
  • From Shawn Highfield@1:229/452.4 to Kai Richter on Mon May 28 20:49:56 2018
    Quoting Kai Richter to Dave Vandermeer <=-

    I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..
    Thanks a lot! And happy fixing. ;)

    So now you're nice!? You were almost demanding a feed cut.
    You fight-o-net wankers really make me crazy.

    Shawn
    P.S. Please demand a feed cut for me.

    ... Men will sooner surrender their rights than their customs.
    --- Blue Wave/386
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (1:229/452.4)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dave Vandermeer on Mon May 28 21:47:12 2018
    On 2018 May 28 14:38:28, you wrote to me:

    please also check your mystic setup for the binkp server... you have
    it forcing secure connections... you need to adjust that setting and
    only force secure sessions with your links in the config record for
    each of them...

    I upgraded from an older release to a newer alpha and some of the new additions have not yet been looked at.

    it is not a new addition... it was also there in 1.11...

    I just dont have time right now.

    it only takes a minute...

    mystic -cfg -> Servers -> binkp server options -> Allow Unsecure

    set it to YES, save and exit... then restart mystic just to make sure that it takes...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Of course I'm lying but hear me out.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dave Vandermeer on Mon May 28 21:52:20 2018
    On 2018 May 28 14:40:32, you wrote to Kai Richter:

    the base index got scrambled so it was posting into the base with ID36 which was always the ad spam echo.. but somehow the index got changed
    and ID36 ended up being LINUX echo.. guess that'll learn me for
    upgrading from an older release to a newer alpha stable..

    or adding/removing echos without verifying the index numbers? that is the normal problem... message areas getting added or removed... i don't remember if
    mystic uses the permanent index number or the one that changes all the time... sucks if the permanent one got scrambled... that puts all echos out of place...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... To keep milk from turning sour: Keep it in the cow.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dave Vandermeer on Wed May 30 07:58:00 2018
    Dave Vandermeer wrote to Kai Richter <=-

    the base index got scrambled so it was posting into the base with ID36 which was always the ad spam echo.. but somehow the index got changed
    and ID36 ended up being LINUX echo.. guess that'll learn me for
    upgrading from an older release to a newer alpha stable..

    Just curious what version you were upgrading from, because I haven't seen this issue, but I've been incrementally working up through the alphas over the past couple years.


    ... You know. That old guy who carried moderation to excess.
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to mark lewis on Wed May 30 08:00:00 2018
    mark lewis wrote to Dave Vandermeer <=-

    or adding/removing echos without verifying the index numbers? that is
    the normal problem... message areas getting added or removed... i don't remember if mystic uses the permanent index number or the one that
    changes all the time... sucks if the permanent one got scrambled...
    that puts all echos out of place...

    The mutil message posting function uses the permanent index number. I use the same function on my other board for my auto posts, and never had an issue.


    ... I can't walk on water, but I can stagger on alcohol.
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Shawn Highfield on Wed May 30 02:05:44 2018
    Hello Shawn!

    28 May 18, Shawn Highfield wrote to Kai Richter:

    I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..
    Thanks a lot! And happy fixing. ;)

    So now you're nice!?

    If you noticed one mail before from me, dated 27 May 18 23:11:42, i could answer your question with "No." which means that i'm not nice NOW, i am now and
    i was before already.

    You were almost demanding a feed cut.

    True. True too: against a bot out of control. Not against a sysop.

    You fight-o-net wankers really make me crazy.

    From my point of view the fight is in your head only, driving you to interpret emotions into text which are not here on the other side of the screen.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to Tony Langdon on Wed May 30 15:59:33 2018
    On 05/30/18, Tony Langdon said the following...

    Just curious what version you were upgrading from, because I haven't
    seen this issue, but I've been incrementally working up through the
    alphas over the past couple years.

    It was something to do with adding/removing areas.. idk what happened but the problem has been fixxed.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: internal dimension + idbbs.dlinkddns.com + port 59 (1:229/275)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dave Vandermeer on Thu May 31 14:25:00 2018
    Dave Vandermeer wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    On 05/30/18, Tony Langdon said the following...

    Just curious what version you were upgrading from, because I haven't
    seen this issue, but I've been incrementally working up through the
    alphas over the past couple years.

    It was something to do with adding/removing areas.. idk what happened
    but the problem has been fixxed.

    Hmm, OK. Adding certainly isn't a problem. I've never tried to remove an area from Mystic.


    ... Quiet, don't type so hard, I've got a headache!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Dave Vandermeer on Fri Jun 1 10:28:06 2018
    Hi Dave!

    27 May 2018 11:58, from Dave Vandermeer -> All:

    Ack.. My apologies for my renegade script.. Somehow the base index got scrambled and the script started posting to all the wrong areas.. I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..

    Thank you for your intervention.

    So the main question is what got your index corrupted?
    It would be advisable to check the root cause of that, so that such issues will
    be prevented in the future.

    Nick Andre: Your sending netmail from a different AKA so everything
    you sent me was sent to bad so I didn't even know about it until I actually looked at the bad packets sitting there and opening in text editor :/

    That is a very questionable default of Mystic.
    I think it is called secure something, and is by default enabled.
    It leads to netmails from systems that are not in your config to be marked as bad.
    (that is a good idea for echomail, but a really, really bad one for netmail)

    Maybe you want to check your config if that is really the behaviour you want. And maybe also mention it to the author that it may be a good idea to change the default.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: If someone shoots me, I get to keep the bullet. (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Shawn Highfield on Fri Jun 1 10:46:40 2018
    Hi Shawn!

    28 May 2018 20:49, from Shawn Highfield -> Kai Richter:

    I've disabled the script until I can find the time to fix it..
    Thanks a lot! And happy fixing. ;)
    So now you're nice!? You were almost demanding a feed cut.
    You fight-o-net wankers really make me crazy.

    Shawn ... please be thoughtful a bit.
    (both Kai and I are not native English speakers, so

    What we meant is that the system with an apparent issue is stopped from spamming the echo.
    He gets a netmail telling about it, and asking to reply as soon as the issue is
    fixed.
    Then his feed for this echo can be restored.

    I do not see what is wrong with that behaviour.
    It minimizes the inconvenience on all sides.

    But time has caught up, and the script has been stopped.
    So all is good. (Except that the root cause is still unclear and that it could happen again on any of the systems running that alpha build of that software package.)

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: In it's former life, my computer was a Cray... (2:310/31)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Richard Menedetter on Fri Jun 1 07:31:08 2018
    On 01 Jun 18 10:46:40, Richard Menedetter said the following to Shawn Highfield

    Hi Richard,

    What we meant is that the system with an apparent issue is stopped from spamming the echo.
    He gets a netmail telling about it, and asking to reply as soon as the issu is fixed.
    Then his feed for this echo can be restored.

    That is not how things work on this Hub system.

    Instead, a much more logical, thoughtful and considerate approach is to judge how the problem is impacting the network as a whole and directly communicate with the Sysop before taking any action. The impact of a misconfigured system posting in a silly low-traffic Linux echo is different than lets say, a system making a mass-bombing run or engaging in illegal activity.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Dave Vandermeer on Fri Jun 1 10:43:24 2018
    Hi Dave!

    28 May 2018 14:38, from Dave Vandermeer -> mark lewis:

    I upgraded from an older release to a newer alpha and some of the new additions have not yet been looked at.
    I just dont have time right now.

    Sorry ... but I will give you my 2 cents on this.

    From my point of view it is a very bad idea to use alpha (untested and potentially buggy) software on a production live system.
    ESPECIALLY if you KNOW that you will not have time to fix the bugs that are in the software.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Closed eyes are not always sleeping. (2:310/31)
  • From Static@1:249/400 to Richard Menedetter on Sat Jun 2 01:24:52 2018
    On 06/01/18, Richard Menedetter said the following...

    That is a very questionable default of Mystic.
    I think it is called secure something, and is by default enabled.

    It's the Allow Unsecure option in the Binkp configuration. It was changed to allow unsecure connections by default a while ago after this issue was pointed out to the author, but anyone who set up their BBS before late last year will probably still be operating under the old default.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Subcarrier BBS (1:249/400)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Static on Mon Jun 4 13:34:52 2018
    Hi Static!

    02 Jun 2018 01:24, from Static -> Richard Menedetter:

    It was changed to allow unsecure connections by default a while ago
    after this issue was pointed out to the author

    Thanx for the info!
    Very glad to hear that.

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: SKILL: A long, long, long, streak of blind luck. (2:310/31)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Nick Andre on Tue Jun 5 03:07:28 2018
    Hello Nick!

    01 Jun 18, Nick Andre wrote to Richard Menedetter:

    That is not how things work on this Hub system.

    We are not talking about what's going on on your system, we are talking about the effects to the network.

    The network means us, the writers. The hubs and nodes supply the infrastructure
    but they are not really the network. Without writing users the infrastructure is empty and the nodes don't have content to transport and thus no reason to connect other systems.

    Back in the old days that fact was overlied by the transport cost of the call by call modem connects. Less users means less content and reduced costs and there was no shortage of users. This turned by 180 in the current time. Today we have flat rated connects even in germany but many users left to the internet
    and there is a shortage of users in fidonet. Any sysop should please take that into account if he judges the impact to the "network" and counterbalance priorities.

    Instead, a much more logical, thoughtful and considerate approach is
    to judge how the problem is impacting the network as a whole

    And in this point we have different jugdements.

    You asked why we don't simply use the next key. That is very difficult for me to explain in a translated language but i will try now.

    The impact of a misconfigured system posting in a silly low-traffic
    Linux echo is different than lets say, a system making a mass-bombing
    run or engaging in illegal activity.

    Your triggerd three keywords. silly. low-traffic. mass.

    Even without detectable emotions in text i would call it an offence against the
    users of this echo if in your point of view an/any echo is silly.

    I dislike the swedish proverbs in this echo becasue they are useless for me but
    i can tolerate them because there seems to be a user having fun working on character translation. Because you are right, this is a low-traffic echo, i don't have any problem to hit these mails with the next key.

    To make it understandable why i don't do that with the BBS advertising i have to explain that i'm really pissed off from unwanted advertisings in general. They steal our time by pressing "next" or "delete" buttons, they distract us from our focus and the bytes transfered by the net consumes energy, hardware and human resources worth approx. 6.600.000.000 Euro in germany in 2017 only. (source: https://de.statista.com/themen/113/online-werbung/ )

    One of the primary reasons for my fidonet usage was the non commercial direction and the normally missing advertisment spam.

    Now we are at "low-traffic" and "mass". Yes, we haven't seen much traffic here.
    That is not a reason to flood an echo with offtopic spam. And what is "mass" for you? The ad subject was seen here on May 22 first (maybe i deleted the first ones) thats 13 days. The traffic 13 days before was 3 mails if we go back
    to May 01. Since the 22nd there are ~88 mails now, which is ~2900% more traffic. Compared to the usual traffic your ignoring caused a mass-bombing run.

    To add another view to understand my point, we had a user announcing his new and unused chromium dioxide cassettes in the flea.ger echoarea for some weeks and even after reducing the price it was clear to everyone that there is no potential buyer in the echo. The advice that there will be no buyer was ignored
    and it escalated into stubborn opposition "i do because i can" and i think the mail posting was given to a bot then. The first announcement was ~2002-06 and it took 190 useless echomails until 2005-11 when his uplink was convinced that ther is no reaction from the seller if anyone asks to buy the cassettes and he killed the cassette announcement in transit.

    Maybe it was funny at first, the chromiumdioxide cassettes were some kind of running gag, but then it was annoying only. That case teached me to not ignore a bot.

    We (in R24) had perfect the way of ignoring and it does not care. We had a backbone system that wasn't very well maintained by the sysop. It was a bridge to other low maintained "autopilot" systems that had still active writing points. On other systems the echomail distribution paused sometimes until the end of the week, until the sysop came home and pressed the reset button. We kept the broken systems for years and it was annoying if the mail transport paused again for a week. And there was a black hole when the system was forced down permanently. Everybody thought it would be back the next days and it took a while until we realized that it won't. At that point the echomail distribution structure was in shards. It took more weeks to collect the remainings and link them together again. We build dupe links on purpose to have
    an activ alternate link so if one system will go down the echomail is comming through the backdoor. Since then we have a really stable echomail supply.

    Well, thats all why simply hitting the next button was no good option for me. I
    do hate spam, i had bad experience with bots and i don't believe "no action" is
    a good solution in case of missing information.

    I believe that the basics apply to Richard too. I think we both are what a wordwise translation would be "a burned child shies the fire". Some kind of folk wisdom or common knowledge, the phrase is known be the translator as
    "once bitten twice shy" or "one who has been hurt in the past will be doubly careful in the future".

    My apologies to all linux interested readers for this long off-topic mail wasting your time but i hope i cleared the question what drives us to request a
    temporary disconnect of the advertisment bot out of control.

    Best regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/384.125 to Kai Richter on Wed Jun 6 08:33:45 2018
    Hi! Kai,

    On 06/05/2018 03:07 AM, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    My apologies to all linux interested readers for this long off-topic
    mail wasting your time but i hope i cleared the question what drives us
    to request a temporary disconnect of the advertisment bot out of control.

    I skipped to this paragraph, hit reply (in fact 'Followup', and, then [Next>>].

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: Ah.. aah.. aaah.. atchou÷2ØO±:´¬&bËø NO CARRIER (3:640/384.125)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Kai Richter on Tue Jun 5 19:11:57 2018
    On 05 Jun 18 03:07:28, Kai Richter said the following to Nick Andre:

    The impact of a misconfigured system posting in a silly low-traffic Linux echo is different than lets say, a system making a mass-bombing run or engaging in illegal activity.

    Your triggerd three keywords. silly. low-traffic. mass.

    Oh I know I triggered you... into writing a "silly", long winded
    "mass" of a paragraph in a "low-traffic" echo.

    Maybe it was funny at first, the chromiumdioxide cassettes were some kind o running gag, but then it was annoying only. That case teached me to not ign a bot.

    If Chrome cassettes offend you, then don't buy them. I understand their darker tape particle formulation stand out against lighter-colored formulations, but thats just the nature of this crazy mixed up world we live in.

    Your "Low Noise Type-1" privilege offends me. Cassette Lives Matter...

    My apologies to all linux interested readers for this long off-topic mail wasting your time but i hope i cleared the question what drives us to reque a temporary disconnect of the advertisment bot out of control.

    You and everyone else have the freedom to request all the feed cuts you want for my system. I'm not stopping anyone from sending me Netmails about how a user or a system is personally causing you mental anguish and the fetishistic desire to concoct diatribes ending with an apology about being off-topic.

    Whether I choose to act is a different story.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)