• What?

    From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to All on Sat Dec 17 03:10:24 2016
    Hello All,

    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed supported. But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play? Apparantly there is no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place into the echomail.jam file? I didn't scour the docs about it, but.. it seemed pretty obvious as other softwares seem to support both formats.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Dec 17 19:30:47 2016
    Hi! Nick,

    On 12/17/2016 07:10 PM, Nicholas Boel -> All wrote:

    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed
    supported. But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play? Apparantly there is no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place
    into the echomail.jam file? I didn't scour the docs about it, but.. it seemed pretty obvious as other softwares seem to support both formats.

    There does appear to be netmail.jam support. I use it here and on my main system, with scripts & BATches.

    OTOH, my Linux script uses a fall-through approach when looking for those semaphores/data files; that is to say that it attempts using named *.jam files as arguments, and if none are found it does a mass scan out in any case.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    .... Earth, Mars, the Belt: Whose side are you on?

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/0 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Dec 17 13:56:26 2016

    17 Dec 16 03:10, Nicholas Boel wrote to All:

    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed supported. But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play? Apparantly there is
    no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place into the echomail.jam file?

    IIRC, new netmail goes to echomail.jam as well.

    'Tommi

    --- GoldED+/EMX 1.1.5-b20160322
    * Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:0 (2:221/0)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Dec 17 17:37:34 2016
    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed
    supported. But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play? Apparantly there is no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place
    into the echomail.jam file? I didn't scour the docs about it, but.. it seemed pretty obvious as other softwares seem to support both formats.

    I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking about above. echomail.jam? netmail.jam?

    I have some 100 or so different *.JAM here, one for every echo. Plus of course one for netmail:

    !NETMAIL A 2:203/2 s:\fido\areas\NETMAIL

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Björn Felten on Sat Dec 17 18:52:04 2016
    On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 17:37:34 +0100 Bjrn Felten : Nicholas Boel :

    I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking
    about above. echomail.jam? netmail.jam?

    Really?!

    The question is, have you defined "echomailjam" in your jamnntps.config, like this:

    echomailjam \fido\msgbase\echomail.jam

    When you enter an echomail message to the jam base, jamnntpd creates information for tosser what to scan out without scanning the whole msgbase.

    Some other bbs software create a file called netmail.jam when you enter netmail to jam base. The contents is still the same, message base file name and the message number to be scanned out.

    'Tommi

    --- Sylpheed 3.5.1 (GTK+ 2.24.23; i686-pc-mingw32)
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Björn Felten on Sat Dec 17 18:56:07 2016

    I have some 100 or so different *.JAM here, one for every echo.

    Really?! (part2)

    I don't have any. My jambase is named like this:

    Directory of \bbs\msgbase\jamn*

    17.12.2016 18:39 1 113 485 jamnntpd.jdt
    17.12.2016 18:39 10 256 jamnntpd.jdx
    17.12.2016 18:39 481 660 jamnntpd.jhr
    17.12.2016 15:50 16 jamnntpd.jlr



    'Tommi

    --- Sylpheed 3.5.1 (GTK+ 2.24.23; i686-pc-mingw32)
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Paul Quinn on Sat Dec 17 11:24:28 2016
    Hello Paul,

    On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 19:30:46 +1000, Paul Quinn -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    There does appear to be netmail.jam support. I use it here and on my
    main system, with scripts & BATches.

    Does it place the proper netmail information in the specied "echomailjam" parameter so there is only one file to contend with? The JamNNTPd configuration file doesn't seem to mention a separate file for netmail.jam. Or does it actually create a netmail.jam separately?

    OTOH, my Linux script uses a fall-through approach when looking for
    those semaphores/data files; that is to say that it attempts using named *.jam files as arguments, and if none are found it does a mass scan out
    in any case.

    In my adventures, I'm trying to avoid that. With my Golded/hpt setup, I have hpt creating echotoss.log and Golded creating echoscan.log. Then in my script I use "hpt scan -f" which looks for one of those files, and if not found, it doesn't continue to run. I'm running it all on a Raspberry Pi3 so while I tinker I'm also looking for ways to save resources wherever possible (not that it's a huge deal or anything).

    So with JamNNTPd, I would like to do something similar with the .jam files. More likely writing a wrapper script that runs my newsreader client (slrn), and then when I actually exit the program will continue to do a search for those .jam files and run my tosser if they're found. That way I don't have to run a script with cron or anything that most of the time wouldn't even do anything when no messages are posted from here. And the need to scan all areas when those files are not found wouldn't be necessary either.

    Thanks for the info, Paul!

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Dec 17 11:25:36 2016
    Hello Tommi,

    On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 13:56:26 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed supported.
    But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play? Apparantly
    no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place into the echomail.jam
    file?

    IIRC, new netmail goes to echomail.jam as well.

    Perfect, that's exactly what I needed to know!

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Björn Felten on Sat Dec 17 11:31:56 2016
    Hello Björn,

    On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 17:37:34 +0100, Björn Felten - Nicholas Boel wrote:
    So, I see in the configuration file that echomail.jam is indeed
    supported. But, how and were the hell does netmail come into play?
    Apparantly there is no netmail.jam support? Or does netmail get place
    into the echomail.jam file? I didn't scour the docs about it, but.. it
    seemed pretty obvious as other softwares seem to support both formats.

    I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking about above. echomail.jam? netmail.jam?

    Files created for your tosser to read. This way the tosser doesn't have to attempt to scan out every single area you have. But rather JamNNTPd creates a file with the specific echo/net areas you actually posted to. With this, your tosser can be run with a switch that will ONLY scan out the areas specified in that file. In JamNNTPd's case, it uses echomail.jam. In HPT's case, it uses echotoss.log. So I needed a converter so HPT would be able to work nicely with JamNNTPd in this regard.

    I have some 100 or so different *.JAM here, one for every echo. Plus of course one for netmail:

    !NETMAIL A 2:203/2 s:\fido\areas\NETMAIL

    *.JAM? I don't think we're referring to the same thing. Your JAM areas (4 files per echo) do not have the *.JAM extension. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Dec 18 10:35:33 2016
    Hi! Nick,

    On 12/18/2016 03:24 AM, you wrote:

    Thanks for the info, Paul!

    Nup. My bad. I'd forgotten what I had done, and I got it mixed up with Golded's config. I configured JamNNTPd to use the -echomailjam option to set a generic semaphore which is the target of a cron job.

    (Same goes for my Win98 node, where my Radius mailer watches for the semaphore and starts a FastEcho task as required.)

    Of course, this all means that separate net/echo-mail.jam files are not created. Therefore for any JamNNTPd generated mail, the scan-out is a mass (exodus) type. Oops. :-}

    I beg a thousand pardons.

    FWIW, the data in the semaphore is as documented for JamNNTPd. It would/could serve for both netmail & echomail... like Tommi said.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    .... Earth, Mars, the Belt: Whose side are you on?

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Paul Quinn on Sat Dec 17 19:14:50 2016
    Hello Paul,

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 10:35:32 +1000, Paul Quinn -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Thanks for the info, Paul!

    Nup. My bad. I'd forgotten what I had done, and I got it mixed up with Golded's config. I configured JamNNTPd to use the -echomailjam option
    to set a generic semaphore which is the target of a cron job.

    I'm fairly certain I still got the information I needed to continue.

    As of right now, I'm just running a wrapper script that runs my newsreader, then when the newsreader exits the script looks for echomail.jam, and if present, continues to run my tosser - and it is also currently scanning all areas.

    I didn't originally want to do it this way, but at the moment is the only option. It seems when I try to run echomailjam2hpt.pl to convert echomail.jam to echotoss.log format so HPT can read it, the perl script searches my fidoconfig areas file but doesn't seem to be able to find the area, or is not reading it properly, so it's currently not working like I want it to. It's working at the moment, but not as lightweight as I wanted.. yet.

    I beg a thousand pardons.

    No need to apologize. I'm currently doing it (basically) the same way. While it still works, it could be fine tuned just a little bit better once I figure out why the perl script isn't working like it should.

    FWIW, the data in the semaphore is as documented for JamNNTPd. It would/could serve for both netmail & echomail... like Tommi said.

    Yep, I've noticed this now. Although I'm not actually making any use of the contents of echomail.jam currently, since I'm basically only searching for it, and if it exists, running the tosser and scanning through every area rather than only the specific ones contained in the file. :(

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Dec 18 12:28:52 2016
    Nicholas Boel : Paul Quinn

    Yep, I've noticed this now. Although I'm not actually making any use
    of the contents of echomail.jam currently, since I'm basically only searching for it, and if it exists, running the tosser and scanning through every area rather than only the specific ones contained in
    the file. :(

    Yep. Running "hpt scan -w pack -w" is pretty fast operation to run when echomail.jam appears. No need for anything fancier. ;)

    In my OS/2 system I check in my tossing sequense if echomail.jam exists,
    and then run "gecho scan -quick".

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 18 09:45:46 2016
    Hello Tommi,

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:28:52 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:
    Nicholas Boel : Paul Quinn

    Yep, I've noticed this now. Although I'm not actually making any use
    of the contents of echomail.jam currently, since I'm basically only
    searching for it, and if it exists, running the tosser and scanning
    through every area rather than only the specific ones contained in
    the file. :(

    Yep. Running "hpt scan -w pack -w" is pretty fast operation to run when echomail.jam appears. No need for anything fancier. ;)

    Why do you run it with the -w option (without highwaters)? Curious minds would like to know. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Dec 18 20:48:36 2016
    On 18.12.2016 17:45, Nicholas Boel : Tommi Koivula :

    Why do you run it with the -w option (without highwaters)? Curious
    minds would like to know. :)

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.28
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Mon Dec 19 00:56:31 2016
    I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking
    about above. echomail.jam? netmail.jam?

    Really?!

    I'm terribly sorry, I didn't realize that you were talking about semaphore files -- I thought that you somehow managed to get all echoes into one single jam file quad.

    My bad -- now back to my usual hibernate mode. 8-)



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 18 20:48:24 2016
    Hello Tommi,

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 20:48:36 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Why do you run it with the -w option (without highwaters)? Curious
    minds would like to know. :)

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary. Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as well?

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Björn Felten on Sun Dec 18 20:51:12 2016
    Hello Björn,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 00:56:30 +0100, Björn Felten - Tommi Koivula wrote:

    My bad -- now back to my usual hibernate mode. 8-)

    Before you go back to hibernating, I believe I have all the kinks worked out if you care to add my JamNNTPd server to the list in the snooze.

    Address: nntp://news.pharcyde.org
    Access : Info in group, +GETACCESS+
    Netmail: Yes, 1:154/10

    I will keep you posted if I add SSL/TLS support as well. Thanks in advance, Björn!

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 00:38:38 2016

    18 Dec 16 20:48, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    Why do you run it with the -w option (without highwaters)? Curious
    minds would like to know. :)

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary.
    Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as well?

    if there are unsent ones behind the watermark, they won't be seen because the scan starts at the watermark... ignoring the watermark makes the scan start at the very beginning...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Docs? Why should I look at Docs? Nurses are much better looking.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 09:55:53 2016
    Before you go back to hibernating, I believe I have all the kinks worked out if you care to add my JamNNTPd server to the list in the snooze.

    Excellent!



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Mon Dec 19 08:22:52 2016
    Hello mark,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 00:38:38 -0500, mark lewis -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary.
    Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as well?

    if there are unsent ones behind the watermark, they won't be seen
    because the scan starts at the watermark... ignoring the watermark makes the scan start at the very beginning...

    So with that said, if I read further than the message I reply to, the message wouldn't be scanned?

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 08:39:02 2016
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 09:55:52 +0100, Bjrn Felten - Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Before you go back to hibernating, I believe I have all the kinks worked
    out if you care to add my JamNNTPd server to the list in the snooze.

    Excellent!

    Thanks, Bjrn!

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 16:08:45 2016
    Excellent!

    Thanks, Bjrn!

    No, thank *you* Nick! A new entry in the list was exactly what we needed.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 17:10:17 2016
    Bjrn Felten : Tommi Koivula :

    I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are
    talking about above. echomail.jam? netmail.jam?

    Really?!

    I'm terribly sorry, I didn't realize that you were talking about
    semaphore files -- I thought that you somehow managed to get all
    echoes into one single jam file quad.

    "I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking"

    You were absolutely right about that. :D

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 17:12:02 2016
    Nicholas Boel : Tommi Koivula :

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary.

    "Just to make sure" ;)

    Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as well?

    Yes, if the watermark is ok.

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 17:14:34 2016
    19 Dec 16 08:22, you wrote to mark lewis:

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary.
    Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as
    well?

    if there are unsent ones behind the watermark, they won't be seen
    because the scan starts at the watermark... ignoring the
    watermark makes the scan start at the very beginning...

    So with that said, if I read further than the message I reply to, the message wouldn't be scanned?

    The lastread pointers are not the watermark. Tosser remembers the last message it has scanned. If for some reason the messages are renumbered or something else illegal happens, the tosser may not start scanning at the right place.

    In theory it is possible, but not very likely.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: news://rbb.bbs.fi & news://fidonews.mine.nu (2:221/360.8110)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Mon Dec 19 16:32:49 2016
    "I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are talking"

    You were absolutely right about that. :D

    Never admit to a mistake to a Finn... 8-)



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 10:50:48 2016

    19 Dec 16 08:22, you wrote to me:

    Just to make sure all unsent messages will be sent.

    I guess I'm still unsure as to why the "-w" option is necessary.
    Doesn't it send out all unsent messages without that option as well?

    if there are unsent ones behind the watermark, they won't be seen
    because the scan starts at the watermark... ignoring the watermark
    makes the scan start at the very beginning...

    So with that said, if I read further than the message I reply to, the message wouldn't be scanned?

    not your user name's watermark... the tosser's watermark... generally the first message in the base unless a special file is set aside for the purpose... the watermark message contains the message number of the highest message in the base when the last scan was completed... it is a way to have scanning go faster than scanning the entire base... sometimes the counter may get out of sync for various reasons (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not updating the watermark due to format differences)...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I used to jog, but the ice kept falling out of my glass.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Mon Dec 19 17:19:20 2016
    (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not
    updating the watermark due to format differences)

    Ah yes. How can we prevent something like that happening? It's truly a PITA whenever it happens.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 19:05:46 2016
    19 Dec 16 16:32, you wrote to me:

    "I must admit that I don't understand shit of what you are
    talking"

    You were absolutely right about that. :D

    Never admit to a mistake to a Finn... 8-)

    I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: news://rbb.bbs.fi & news://fidonews.mine.nu (2:221/360.8110)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 19:11:06 2016
    19 Dec 16 17:19, you wrote to mark lewis:

    (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not
    updating the watermark due to format differences)

    Ah yes. How can we prevent something like that happening? It's
    truly a PITA whenever it happens.

    Never let any maintenance tool to renumber jam bases. It will destroy the numbering in nntp client.

    As far as I know, packing message base with sqpack (husky) does not renumber. Not sure about "hptutil pack". Also with GEcho and Fastecho it is possible to purge and pack without renumbering. Don't know about any other tossers.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: news://rbb.bbs.fi & news://fidonews.mine.nu (2:221/360.8110)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Mon Dec 19 11:24:38 2016
    Hello Tommi,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 17:14:34 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    So with that said, if I read further than the message I reply to, the
    message wouldn't be scanned?

    The lastread pointers are not the watermark. Tosser remembers the last message it has scanned. If for some reason the messages are renumbered
    or something else illegal happens, the tosser may not start scanning at the right place.

    In theory it is possible, but not very likely.

    Thanks for the description, Tommi. I understand now - and it may indeed be a good option for me, since I access the same JAM areas with multiple programs and editors, so the possibility of illegal things happening seems to be getting higher and higher. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 11:29:22 2016
    Hello Björn,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 17:19:20 +0100, Björn Felten - mark lewis wrote:
    (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not
    updating the watermark due to format differences)

    Ah yes. How can we prevent something like that happening? It's truly a PITA whenever it happens.

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions would mess that program up as well.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 19:07:17 2016
    Hi,

    On 2016-12-19 11:29:22, Nicholas Boel wrote to Björn Felten:
    about: "What?":

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    I pack/purge and renumber my jam message bases daily. GoldEd+ has no problem with that!?

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.8.53-B20161208
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 20:08:08 2016
    Hi Nicholas!

    19 Dec 2016 11:29, from Nicholas Boel -> Bj|rn Felten:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    How does it mess up Golded?
    Never seen that. (for JamNNTPd it is clear, as the clients store the msg numbers)

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: If I follow you home, will you keep me? (2:310/31)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Dec 19 14:12:08 2016
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:07:16 +0100, Wilfred van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    I pack/purge and renumber my jam message bases daily. GoldEd+ has no problem with that!?

    I don't think I've ever tried this with JAM message bases. When I used Golded+ to access my Synchronet message bases, the support must not have been in Golded+ to read the last read pointers very well, as whenever I tried packing/renumbering the areas, Golded+ would show 65535 new and total messages in an area that was actually packed/renumbered - even if it was packed down to 2000 messages for example.

    I'm sure JAM support is much better.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Dec 19 14:14:42 2016
    Hello Richard,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:08:08 +0100, Richard Menedetter -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    How does it mess up Golded?
    Never seen that. (for JamNNTPd it is clear, as the clients store the msg numbers)

    I wasn't referring to JAM areas, but areas in general. It's a known fact SMB support (Synchronet message base) is somewhat lacking in Golded+, which probably could have something to do with it never being documented. *shrug*

    Either way, my last message to Wilfred explained the issue I had. But if that doesn't happen with JAM bases, that's great!

    I still access my JAM areas with both Golded+ and JamNNTPd, so I still shouldn't renumber anything.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Dec 19 22:01:42 2016
    I pack/purge and renumber my jam message bases daily. GoldEd+ has no problem with that!?

    I do it on a monthly bases (except for the dreaded renumbering thing) using crashmail. Knock on wood, but so far it has done an excellent job.



    ..

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 19 18:55:14 2016

    19 Dec 16 17:19, you wrote to me:

    (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not
    updating the watermark due to format differences)

    Ah yes. How can we prevent something like that happening? It's truly a PITA whenever it happens.

    yes, it is... and it happens when one doesn't like the way one tool handles maint and they prefer the way another does it... especially when it comes to things like automaticallt renumbering message bases... that shite is out in our book! ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We are professionals: don't attempt this in your own kitchen!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Dec 19 18:57:18 2016

    19 Dec 16 11:29, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    (eg: another message base maint tool purging and packing and not
    updating the watermark due to format differences)

    Ah yes. How can we prevent something like that happening? It's truly
    a PITA whenever it happens.

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    you can purge and pack to maintain the counts you have set... just don't renumber... that's the worst nasty... trying to convince certain maintainers of that is another task altogether... *cough* mystic *cough*

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We haven't heard the Devil's side. God wrote all the books.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Dec 19 18:58:50 2016

    19 Dec 16 19:07, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    I pack/purge and renumber my jam message bases daily. GoldEd+ has no problem with that!?

    you don't run JAMNNTPd on those message bases, do you? ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... There is no devil, it's just God when he's drunk!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Richard Menedetter on Mon Dec 19 18:59:28 2016

    19 Dec 16 20:08, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I haven't
    done this since I started using Golded, as those type of functions
    would mess that program up as well.

    How does it mess up Golded? Never seen that. (for JamNNTPd it is
    clear, as the clients store the msg numbers)

    this is the JAMNNTPd area... news clients store their own lastread pointers... they are not communicated to the BBS/news server for storage there, too...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... ICBM Address: 62'30"N 141'30"W.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 02:28:22 2016
    you don't run JAMNNTPd on those message bases, do you? ;)

    LOL! Probably not. At least T-Bird will puke on it. ;)



    ..

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  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 08:00:10 2016
    Hello mark,

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 18:57:18 -0500, mark lewis -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    you can purge and pack to maintain the counts you have set... just don't renumber... that's the worst nasty... trying to convince certain maintainers of that is another task altogether... *cough* mystic *cough*

    Have you asked Rob about Synchronet doing the same? You test both softwares there, so you should be well aware.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Dec 20 17:12:44 2016

    Hello Wilfred!

    19 Dec 16 19:07, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    For starters, do not purge and/or pack your message bases? I
    haven't done this since I started using Golded, as those type of
    functions would mess that program up as well.

    I pack/purge and renumber my jam message bases daily. GoldEd+ has no problem with that!?

    Why do you renumber? :D

    I was wondering what might be the maximum of message numbers im JAM? I have for example 69752 messages at COOKING. Messages are numbered 69710-139462. ;)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: ================================== (2:221/360.8110)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Tue Dec 20 11:05:00 2016
    20 Dec 16 08:00, you wrote to me:

    you can purge and pack to maintain the counts you have set... just
    don't renumber... that's the worst nasty... trying to convince
    certain maintainers of that is another task altogether... *cough*
    mystic *cough*

    Have you asked Rob about Synchronet doing the same?

    i have not... mainly because, unless i'm seriously missing something, SBBS doesn't have a news server and there's no 3rd party news server that i know of that provides access to the SBBS proprietary message base format...

    You test both softwares there, so you should be well aware.

    *i* don't... max's setup is her's... i have access to it and pretty much free hand but it is still her's to test and break... if there was news access to SBBS, i probably would be aware of any (re)numbering problems but since there isn't, renumbering doesn't affect things like that be become noticible...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Clear conscience never fears midnight knocking. - Chinese Proverb
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 11:32:46 2016
    Hello mark,

    On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:05:00 -0500, mark lewis -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Have you asked Rob about Synchronet doing the same?

    i have not... mainly because, unless i'm seriously missing something,
    SBBS doesn't have a news server and there's no 3rd party news server
    that i know of that provides access to the SBBS proprietary message base format...

    Synchronet does indeed have it's own NNTP server.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Dec 20 12:29:18 2016

    20 Dec 16 17:12, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    I was wondering what might be the maximum of message numbers im JAM? I have for example 69752 messages at COOKING. Messages are numbered 69710-139462. ;)

    longint...
    max message size : 2147483647
    max message base size : 2147483647
    max messages in one base : 2147483647

    if an unsigned longint is used, then double those to 4294967295 but then there may be problems when used with software using a signed longint...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Ura Redneck if you've ever fed your date french fries in a Denny's.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 20:14:40 2016
    20 Dec 16 12:29, you wrote to me:

    20 Dec 16 17:12, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    I was wondering what might be the maximum of message numbers im
    JAM? I have for example 69752 messages at COOKING. Messages are
    numbered 69710-139462. ;)

    longint...
    max message size : 2147483647
    max message base size : 2147483647
    max messages in one base : 2147483647

    if an unsigned longint is used, then double those to 4294967295 but
    then there may be problems when used with software using a signed longint...


    Right. So no need for renumbering in near future. ;)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: ================================== (2:221/360.8110)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Tue Dec 20 14:30:44 2016

    20 Dec 16 11:32, you wrote to me:

    Have you asked Rob about Synchronet doing the same?

    i have not... mainly because, unless i'm seriously missing something,
    SBBS doesn't have a news server and there's no 3rd party news server
    that i know of that provides access to the SBBS proprietary message
    base format...

    Synchronet does indeed have it's own NNTP server.

    errrr,,, i don't see a setting for it in max's sbbs.ini file... i thought there was one but looked, instead, at the ini file to double check myself... i'm fairly sure that i did test it with her, in the past, too... now you have me wondering wtf...

    in any case, if SBBS has its own news server and it automatically renumbers, then it has some method to keep the numbers straight... you can't easily do that with a 3rd party server that doesn't keep up with them... JAMNNTPd is such a 3rd party news server and i'm not aware of any other being available to serve FTN messages...

    [time passes]

    aww, crap... i found the settings for the SBBS news server in the services.ini :rolleyes:
    it just seems like it would be in sbbs.ini along with [BBS], [Mail], [FTP] and [Web] :?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We are holding your refrigerator hostage!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Dec 20 14:38:44 2016

    20 Dec 16 20:14, you wrote to me:

    I was wondering what might be the maximum of message numbers im JAM?
    I have for example 69752 messages at COOKING. Messages are numbered
    69710-139462. ;)

    longint...
    max message size : 2147483647
    max message base size : 2147483647
    max messages in one base : 2147483647

    if an unsigned longint is used, then double those to 4294967295 but
    then there may be problems when used with software using a signed
    longint...

    Right. So no need for renumbering in near future. ;)

    exactly! that's why i can't fathom being forced to renumber JAM bases... i know of at least three that force it or their docs seem to indicate it is forced... at least one or two force it on JAM bases if HMB processing is also being done... i suspect that's a bug, though...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... "Joyeux Noel et Bonne Annee." - French Christmas
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 14:31:26 2016
    Hello mark,

    On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:30:44 -0500, mark lewis -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Synchronet does indeed have it's own NNTP server.

    in any case, if SBBS has its own news server and it automatically renumbers, then it has some method to keep the numbers straight... you can't easily do that with a 3rd party server that doesn't keep up with them... JAMNNTPd is such a 3rd party news server and i'm not aware of
    any other being available to serve FTN messages...

    Even if your message bases were set to renumber, I doubt any client would ever know that.

    [time passes]

    aww, crap... i found the settings for the SBBS news server in the services.ini :rolleyes:

    There ya go. :)

    it just seems like it would be in sbbs.ini along with [BBS], [Mail],
    [FTP] and [Web] :?

    It would seem so, but it could have been considered a lesser important service, which seems to be what services.ini contains.

    Anyhow, sorry to go off topic. Back to your originally scheduled NNTP server. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Wed Dec 21 01:12:11 2016
    that's why i can't fathom being forced to renumber JAM bases...

    I can, and I think you know it. It's about the Frontdoor Editor for DOS that has this extraordinary, remarkable 16k limit.

    Nowadays I rarely use FE and when I do it's always on smaller JAM bases than 16k messages in it, so no big deal.



    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Tue Dec 20 19:02:00 2016

    20 Dec 16 14:31, you wrote to me:

    Synchronet does indeed have it's own NNTP server.

    in any case, if SBBS has its own news server and it automatically
    renumbers, then it has some method to keep the numbers straight...
    you can't easily do that with a 3rd party server that doesn't keep up
    with them... JAMNNTPd is such a 3rd party news server and i'm not
    aware of any other being available to serve FTN messages...

    Even if your message bases were set to renumber, I doubt any client
    would ever know that.

    they don't but the problem is that when you go to pull new posts and miss the ones between your last pull and the renumber... let me try to explain that batter...

    1. you read posts 1-50
    2. your client remembers your lastread as #50
    3. the BBS purges the first 25 and renumbers
    4. your #50 is now the BBSes #25
    5. you make a new pull and your client starts at #50 which it has as your lastread
    6. you've missed 26-49 because your client started at #50 and didn't know your lastread had moved back to #25

    now consider you want to go back and read earlier posts... so you select #15 but the header your client has doesn't match the #15 you're sent because that #15 used to be #40 (15 + 25 that were purged)...

    now consider if the BBS hasn't pulled 25 since it purged and renumbered... when your client requests #50, there is no #50 on the BBS... now what?

    does that help to make it clearer?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... <- Grains Of Salt. Take As Needed With Above Message.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 20 21:34:44 2016
    Hello mark,

    On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:02:00 -0500, mark lewis -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Even if your message bases were set to renumber, I doubt any client
    would ever know that.

    they don't but the problem is that when you go to pull new posts and
    miss the ones between your last pull and the renumber... let me try to explain that batter...

    Why? I know what renumbering does to 3rd party software. You don't have to explain it to me.

    now consider if the BBS hasn't pulled 25 since it purged and
    renumbered... when your client requests #50, there is no #50 on the
    BBS... now what?

    I have never seen your example actually happen. Most of the time the reader just completely loses track and shows some ridiculous number (I have seen 65535 in Golded specifically in the past, while in an actual newsreader I believe it may have been double that - mind you this was with a message base format other than JAM). When this has happened in the past, I just stopped messing with it, and stopped renumbering altogether. I learned my lesson at that point and have never tried it again nor cared enough to study it further, since it really can't be fixed without just NOT doing it.

    *Then again, I also do not want my message base starting at any number besides 1. So that usually leads to me just backing up and wiping the message bases completely, starting fresh again until they reach an annoying amount.

    Also, now that I've moved the BBS away from being the hub system (it's now a leaf node).. I can now pack/purge/renumber on it however I want to since the only way to access it's message bases is by telnetting to it or using the built in webserver, which all work nicely with any kind of maintenance you do on those bases.

    The hub setup is now these JAM areas which area only accessible via JamNNTPd to anyone other than myself, so obviously I can't (and won't) renumber these. At some point I'll take a look at the "hptutil pack" feature and make sure it does not renumber. If it does, I'll just revert back to the starred paragraph above. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Tue Dec 20 21:23:54 2016

    21 Dec 16 01:12, you wrote to me:

    that's why i can't fathom being forced to renumber JAM bases...

    I can, and I think you know it. It's about the Frontdoor Editor for
    DOS that has this extraordinary, remarkable 16k limit.

    that's a DOS limitation, though... unless you're running the 386 flavor and then it increases... the OS/2 flavor is even larger... but ya know what? i don't use FM at all any more... no need with TimED on that machine... then again, i only look at that machine once every few weeks other than the logs going by showing me all the MIRAI probes and infestation attempts...

    Nowadays I rarely use FE and when I do it's always on smaller JAM
    bases than 16k messages in it, so no big deal.

    my FE (fastecho) doesn't have problems on my bases... at least not yet... maybe one day but at that time, sure, i'll renumber but on my terms... not an autorenumber all the time... oh well...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... You taste like chili peppers... - Joel Robinson
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Dec 21 05:19:17 2016
    *Then again, I also do not want my message base starting at any number besides 1. So that usually leads to me just backing up and wiping the message bases completely, starting fresh again until they reach an annoying amount.

    That's about exactly what I use to do, I just zip up the old four files, and start all over again. That's why I have a dozen or so old JAM message bases still accessible on my JAMNNTPd server.



    ..

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  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Dec 21 11:23:34 2016
    Hi Nicholas!

    19 Dec 2016 14:14, from Nicholas Boel -> Richard Menedetter:

    Either way, my last message to Wilfred explained the issue I had.

    That makes sense ... (I am only using JAM)

    But if that doesn't happen with JAM bases, that's great!

    That was what I wanted to find out ;))
    I have not seen it, which does not mean that it does not happen ;))

    CU, Ricsi

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Life without learning is death - Cicero (2:310/31)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Wed Dec 21 20:38:09 2016
    Nowadays I rarely use FE and when I do it's always on smaller JAM
    bases than 16k messages in it, so no big deal.

    my FE (fastecho) doesn't have problems on my bases... at least not
    yet... maybe one day but at that time, sure, i'll renumber but on my terms... not an autorenumber all the time... oh well...

    Sorry, I meant of course FM. The name -- Frontdoor Editor -- had me confused.



    ..

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Wed Dec 21 16:41:32 2016

    21 Dec 16 20:38, you wrote to me:

    Nowadays I rarely use FE and when I do it's always on smaller JAM
    bases than 16k messages in it, so no big deal.

    my FE (fastecho) doesn't have problems on my bases... at least not
    yet... maybe one day but at that time, sure, i'll renumber but on my
    terms... not an autorenumber all the time... oh well...

    Sorry, I meant of course FM. The name -- Frontdoor Editor -- had me confused.

    it is ok... i figured you were talking about FM but wanted to be sure... and yeah, i don't understand why FM as the name for the editor but it has been a long time...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Take the law into your own hands.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)