Hello everybody!

Well after some experimenting...

V2.0.0/beta Linux solves this.

There is a quick "hack" to JamNNTPd which makes Pan .133 - .139 and Knode work..

I've connected, got a list of the groups which is the ORIGINAL fault.. and retrieved an article....

I've not went further ie: posting or anything, yet...thats for later work to ensure that Jam bases are not fubar'd.

This is also ONLY a partial solution due to the way JamNNTPd parses input commands...

but it does let PAN and Knode work.

A rework of another function is needed to have this *PROPERLY* responde to the full command... JamNNTPd parsees the input in a way which I have not quite resolved yet...and with out a fix here too it would break JamNNTPd's other commands and/or flat out crash the program.. which I am guessing why the MODE READER command was not implemented.

but this does make the issue go away.

The parseinput: lines are my hacks at var dumps for something...which is a WIP at best...

As I suspsected it appears that some clients when they get the 500 response from JamNNTPd 1.3 and others with out my patch just continue on.. example thunderturkey, I'd have to have some authortative RFC guru tell me which is the correct method....

When the RFC's were written INN was the server..there was a setting which sort of preempted this for SERVER < - > SERVER...

rec9140@fidodev:~/jam13/jamnntpd-1.3/bin$ ./jamnntpd -debug -config jamconfig.cfg
08-Nov-16 16:10:04 JamNNTPd/Linux 1.3 is running on port 5000
08-Nov-16 16:10:04 Compiled Nov 4 2016 23:18:19
08-Nov-16 16:10:42 (192.168.0.4:37172) Connection established to 192.168.0.4 (192.168.0.4:37172) > 200 Welcome to JamNNTPd/Linux 1.3 (posting may or may not be allowed, try your luck)
(192.168.0.4:37172) < MODE READER
(192.168.0.4:37172) > 500 Unknown command
(192.168.0.4:37172) < LIST
(192.168.0.4:37172) > 215 List of newsgroups follows
(192.168.0.4:37172) > NET135 1 1 y
(192.168.0.4:37172) > .


V2.0/beta Linux Trans log...from the debug screen.

08-Nov-16 15:47:14 (192.168.0.21:36304) Connection established to 192.168.0.21 (192.168.0.21:36304) > 200 Welcome to JamNNTPd/betaLinux 2.0 (posting may or may not be allowed, try your luck)
(192.168.0.21:36304) < MODE READER
parseinput: x
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 200 Welcome to JamNNTPd/betaLinux 2.0 (posting may or may not be allowed, try your luck)
(192.168.0.21:36304) < LIST
parseinput: x
parseinput: x
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 215 List of newsgroups follows
(192.168.0.21:36304) > NET135 1 1 y
(192.168.0.21:36304) > .
(192.168.0.21:36304) < LIST NEWSGROUPS
parseinput: xxx
parseinput: xxxx
parseinput: xxxxx
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 215 List of newsgroups follows
(192.168.0.21:36304) > NET135
(192.168.0.21:36304) > .
(192.168.0.21:36304) < GROUP NET135
parseinput: x
parseinput: xxx
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 211 1 1 1 NET135 Group selected
(192.168.0.21:36304) < LIST OVERVIEW.FMT
parseinput: x
parseinput: xxx
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 215 List of fields in XOVER result
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Subject:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > From:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Date:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Message-ID:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > References:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Bytes:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Lines:
(192.168.0.21:36304) > .
(192.168.0.21:36304) < XOVER 1-
parseinput:xxxx
parseinput:xxxx
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 224 Overview information follows
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 1 Updates to HUB "Eric Renfro -> All" <0@371.135.1> Thu, 5 Nov 2015 02:06:50 -0500 <1$NET135@JamNNTPd>
(192.168.0.21:36304) > .
(192.168.0.21:36304) < ARTICLE 1
parseinput: xxx
parseinput: xxx
(192.168.0.21:36304) > 220 1 <1$NET135@JamNNTPd> Article retrieved - Head and body follow
(192.168.0.21:36304) > Path: JamNNTPd!not-for-mail


Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 20:49:26 -0500, Rick Christian wrote:

I've connected, got a list of the groups which is the ORIGINAL fault..
and retrieved an article....

I've not went further ie: posting or anything, yet...thats for later
work to ensure that Jam bases are not fubar'd.

This is also ONLY a partial solution due to the way JamNNTPd parses
input commands...

but it does let PAN and Knode work.

What is PAN and knode? Searching for knode gives nothing useful

---
* Origin: The Byte Museum - news: news.bytemuseum.org (1:19/10)

08 Nov 16 19:09, you wrote to Rick Christian:

This is also ONLY a partial solution due to the way JamNNTPd parses
input commands...

but it does let PAN and Knode work.

What is PAN and knode? Searching for knode gives nothing useful

KDE's news reader... both are obviously not written to the RFC properly if they are issuing MODE READER without first ensuring that MODE-READER is available in the CAPABILITIES of the news server... especially if the news server is not a switching server as described by the RFC...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Okra is the zucchini of the South.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Matt!

08 Nov 16 19:09, you wrote to me:

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 20:49:26 -0500, Rick Christian wrote:

What is PAN and knode? Searching for knode gives nothing useful

Pan is the #1 NNTP client for Linux, its sort of a "Agent" clone..

Knode is a NNTP client for KDE based DE's its been around for a while.. not as popular.

Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

Hello mark!

08 Nov 16 21:14, you wrote to Matt Bedynek:

properly if they are issuing MODE READER without first ensuring that MODE-READER is available in the CAPABILITIES of the news server... especially if the news server is not a switching server as described
by the RFC...

And JamNNTPd does not respond to the CAPABILITIES command, so how do the clients know?

thunderturkey doesn't issue that command before issuing MODE READER

Neither does PAN, or KNode..

thrunderturkey just ignores the 500 response and issues LIST.

I'd have to dig through the RFC, but I would say that is wrong..


Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

09 Nov 16 07:59, you wrote to me:

properly if they are issuing MODE READER without first ensuring that
MODE-READER is available in the CAPABILITIES of the news server...
especially if the news server is not a switching server as described
by the RFC...

And JamNNTPd does not respond to the CAPABILITIES command, so how do
the clients know?

because the lack of the CAPABILITIES is enough to tell them that it is not a mode switching server...

if CAPABILITIES then {
if MODE-READER then {
MODE READER
}
else
// not a mode switching server
// use standard article retrieval commands
}

plus they could simply look at HELP and see if CAPABILITIES exists instead of issuing a command that could fail...

thunderturkey doesn't issue that command before issuing MODE READER

interesting... i've never looked but t-bird is one of the news readers i use to test my news server with...

Neither does PAN, or KNode..

thrunderturkey just ignores the 500 response and issues LIST.

seems that more than one news reader has it wrong, then... or maybe t-bird has it right and the others are wrong for terminating...

I'd have to dig through the RFC, but I would say that is wrong..

the RFC can't be wrong... the RFC is what the rules are... software has to comply with the RFCs it supports...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Sit dux sapienta - Let wisdom be your guide.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark!

09 Nov 16 10:19, you wrote to me:

because the lack of the CAPABILITIES is enough to tell them that it is
not a mode switching server...

Rergardless of if JamNNTPd is a mode switching server...

Clients that follow the RFC and the way the server is to respond is that MODE READER should be sent.. 200... LIST...

The way I've read this is that INN etc.. have settings probably IP or FQDN that would indidcate to them that the connection is another server...and lets say a client connected from that IP/FQDN to tell the server to not limit thins to say IHAVE or XOVER (that is a guess) issue MODE READER then LIST etc. would be available.

Again...there are clients that insist on this to operate... I use 2 of them.. I've fixed it.. hackish right now... I've found a more complete code idea.. I'll have to play with it... along with some other things...

interesting... i've never looked but t-bird is one of the news readers
i use to test my news server with...

The debug mode helped to find out what was coming in.. with out setting up wireshark or something else to tee the ports off ...or even more hackish dumping vars, still had to resort to that for the way it parses stuff now...

seems that more than one news reader has it wrong, then... or maybe
t-bird has it right and the others are wrong for terminating...

Well PAN, insists they follow the RFC to the letter... I don't know that.. that is the spin/rhetoric/hyperbole they put out...and it current maintiner is not willing to deviate from the RFC to solve something.. ie: this issue.

the RFC can't be wrong... the RFC is what the rules are... software
has to comply with the RFCs it supports...

I am not saying the RFC is wrong... I am saying that client(s) that IGNORE a 500 response to mode reader and issue LIST anyway.. ie: thunderturkey, are probably wrong, and thunderturkey did this to solve this issue...

Rick

... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 02:14:16 -0500, mark lewis wrote:

KDE's news reader... both are obviously not written to the RFC properly
if they are issuing MODE READER without first ensuring that MODE-READER
is available in the CAPABILITIES of the news server... especially if the news server is not a switching server as described by the RFC...

I was actually looking at what it would take to implement compression
support and noticed CAPABILITIES is required per the RFC. Ultimately,
I decided compression is of little value on the fidonet side. If we
were updating thousands of headers a day it might be worth it. But I
did implement "CAPABILITIES" in the fork I am working on. It is just
not exposed to the internet yet.

---
* Origin: The Byte Museum - news: news.bytemuseum.org (1:19/10)

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 01:53:46 -0500, Rick Christian wrote:

Rergardless of if JamNNTPd is a mode switching server...

Clients that follow the RFC and the way the server is to respond is that MODE READER should be sent.. 200... LIST...

Try accessing my server to see if it works better. I made a few
changes that should permit these readers to work. I did one test post
to fidotest and it seems to work. I'll do my best to release this
"version" I have worked for some time over the weekend!

---
* Origin: The Byte Museum - news: news.bytemuseum.org (1:19/10)

09 Nov 16 21:38, you wrote to me:

KDE's news reader... both are obviously not written to the RFC
properly if they are issuing MODE READER without first ensuring that
MODE-READER is available in the CAPABILITIES of the news server...
especially if the news server is not a switching server as described
by the RFC...

I was actually looking at what it would take to implement compression support and noticed CAPABILITIES is required per the RFC.

which RFC? CAPABILITIES is not required by RFC977 or by RFC-2980... JAMNNTPd doesn't suppport 3977, 4643, or 4644... someone has gotten something mixed up somewhere... JAMNNTPd is still a Model T... it is not a Lexus... you can have any color you want as long as it is black...

==== Begin "ReadMe.txt" ====

JamNNTPd 1.2

[trim]

6.1 The NNTP protocol
---------------------
JamNNTPd supports most of the basic NNTP protocol as specified in RFC-977.
The commands IHAVE, NEWGROUPS and NEWNEWS are not implemented, but at least give valid response codes if a newsreader tries to use them. JamNNTPd also supports the XOVER and AUTHINFO commands as specified in RFC-2980. XOVER
never sends information about the line counts and byte counts of messages.

[chomp]

==== End "ReadMe.txt" ====

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I always get the last word... "Yes, dear."
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Matt!

10 Nov 16 00:33, you wrote to me:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 01:53:46 -0500, Rick Christian wrote:

Try accessing my server to see if it works better. I made a few
changes that should permit these readers to work. I did one test post
to fidotest and it seems to work. I'll do my best to release this "version" I have worked for some time over the weekend!

Thanks, but I've made *MY* version work, and that is all that matters.

It was not really that big a deal to do.. I spent more time reverse engineering how it parses things.. After I figured that out, it took 5 minutes to "hack" a fix...

I have a hack version that lets Knode and Pan work.. I will make it work more inline with the code base when I get a chance.

I've not tested posting, simply as I just waiting to see if the compiled 1.3 in 64b works...or does that have to be compiled with that -m32 option...

I will play with posting to see if it causes corruption later...

A couple of other things I might do to my 2.0.1.beta version depending on how some responses go from some RFC gurus...

Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

Hello mark!

10 Nov 16 03:35, you wrote to Matt Bedynek:

which RFC? CAPABILITIES is not required by RFC977 or by RFC-2980... JAMNNTPd doesn't suppport 3977, 4643, or 4644... someone has gotten something mixed up somewhere... JAMNNTPd is still a Model T... it is
not a Lexus... you can have any color you want as long as it is
black...

You repsonded that the client should send CAPABILITIES and then take action based on that list on what to do.

Which will I agree with, it doesn't seem to me that ANY client does that.. Maybe there are some that do...on Linux you pretty much have Pan, KNode, and thunderturkey, and I guess TIN if you stick to a CLI. I don't know what is out there for other OS's, and really don't care in the case of one "OS." Matter of fact my version of the code won't even compile on that "OS."

Doesnt seem any go that route, at least from the above limited set.

I am going to let some one further up the RFC chain dedcide which process is "correct."

For now I've resolved my issue, and working on some other things, small, little itty bitty things, more for fun than making anything work...

NEWGROUPS, NEWNEWS would require some external stuff that is above my code grade, at least in C/C++, at least I quickly look at them.. as the data for them would seem to be not valid due to the JAM base, versus a NEWS SPOOL. Maybe not... I may or may not review that.


Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

Hello Matt,

On 10 Nov 16 00:33, Matt Bedynek wrote to Rick Christian:

Try accessing my server to see if it works better. I made a few
changes that should permit these readers to work. I did one test post
to fidotest and it seems to work. I'll do my best to release this "version" I have worked for some time over the weekend!

Thanks for your efforts, Matt. I'm interested in trying this version out. I would much rather see an updated version that more thought and time was put into than a "hacked" version, obviously.

I also noticed you've fixed the "CHRS: UTF-8 4" issue. Does this include the headers?

I've just moved my Fido hub over to a RPi3, and it is in need of an NNTP server. How's that for timing? :)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

10 Nov 16 08:44, you wrote to me:

which RFC? CAPABILITIES is not required by RFC977 or by RFC-2980...
JAMNNTPd doesn't suppport 3977, 4643, or 4644... someone has gotten
something mixed up somewhere... JAMNNTPd is still a Model T... it is
not a Lexus... you can have any color you want as long as it is
black...

You repsonded that the client should send CAPABILITIES and then take action based on that list on what to do.

correct but only on a limited basis... to be truely right, they should issue HELP and see if CAPABILITIES is even listed... if it is /then/ issue CAPABILITIES and see what those results are... if MODE-READER exists in that output, /then/ issue it and be happy... anything else is assuming something not in evidence and one is explicitly told that with a 500 code... too many are not learning to crawl before they walk... you must start at the beginning and take each step as necessary to reach the next level... cheating and taking shortcuts hurts everyone...

Which will I agree with,

ok...

it doesn't seem to me that ANY client does that.. Maybe there are some that do...

there's a lot of shortcut shit out there... too many believe that the internet has brought a lot of new stuff when in fact all that has happened is that old stuff is simply being used like it always has and the users don't have the first clue because their emperor has no clothes and they're too ignorant to understand why... you took a shortcut when you assumed that JAMNNTPd supportes RFC-3977 when it doesn't and never purported to do so...

on Linux you pretty much have Pan, KNode, and thunderturkey, and I
guess TIN if you stick to a CLI.

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus, GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP, Post Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn, Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Stop and smell the roses and sooner or later, you'll inhale a bee.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi! mark,

On 11/11/2016 02:17 AM, you wrote to Rick Christian:

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus, GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP, Post Office, Pyne,
rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn, Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Oh good. You didn't mention yrNews (iPad app). I wouldn't either, as it's crap. Oops... I did it again... faark!

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)

11 Nov 16 08:36, you wrote to me:

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus,
GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey,
Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP, Post
Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn,
Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Oh good. You didn't mention yrNews (iPad app). I wouldn't either, as it's crap. Oops... I did it again... faark!

LOL! i grabbed those from a site that lists *nix based news readers... of those listed, i've used and tested seven or so of them with JAMNNTPd...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Each day comes just once in a life time.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark,

On 10 Nov 16 20:25, mark lewis wrote to Paul Quinn:

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini,
Gnus, GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany,
SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN,
PINE, PNNTP, Post Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn,
Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn, Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Oh good. You didn't mention yrNews (iPad app). I wouldn't
either, as it's crap. Oops... I did it again... faark!

LOL! i grabbed those from a site that lists *nix based news readers...
of those listed, i've used and tested seven or so of them with
JAMNNTPd...

While I haven't tested as many as you with JAMNNTPd, I did test slrn. I quite liked it for a CLI newsreader, and will probably give it another shot with the coming of Matt's additions to JAMNNTPd. :)

Regards,
Nick

... "He who laughs last, thinks slowest."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

10 Nov 16 22:33, you wrote to me:

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus,
GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey,
Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP,
Post Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN,
trn, Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Oh good. You didn't mention yrNews (iPad app). I wouldn't either,
as it's crap. Oops... I did it again... faark!

LOL! i grabbed those from a site that lists *nix based news
readers... of those listed, i've used and tested seven or so of them
with JAMNNTPd...

While I haven't tested as many as you with JAMNNTPd, I did test slrn.
I quite liked it for a CLI newsreader, and will probably give it
another shot with the coming of Matt's additions to JAMNNTPd. :)

i just realized that xpn was left out of the above list, too... that's the python one that choked on the missing trailing tab character for the empty field in the overview information...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... God fights on the side with the heaviest artilliary. - RAH
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Nicholas!

10 Nov 16 08:19, you wrote to Matt Bedynek:

time was put into than a "hacked" version, obviously.

My offensive hacked version is a Proof Of Concept (POC) to determine if this can be fixed.

Does adding in some code to respond to MODE READER solve the issue with Pan, Knode? YES it does.

the initial V2.0.0.1 beta takes what it needs to do to make this work. Nothing more.

A production version 2.0.0 will have something that fits more inline with the code base, that I started with 1.3 from the SF site.

It took a great deal of digging and futz, and var dumps to see how this is being parsed for input... it is doing things different than what I would do if I wrote it, but thats just a subjective call that I would do it differently.. I see where the method is coming from, again, I even with that understanding wouldn't do it that way.

Since I know what its doing, I can write something similar to the way other commands work, and add in some other things I want, mainly for giggles.

I've just moved my Fido hub over to a RPi3, and it is in need of an
NNTP server. How's that for timing? :)

I might try to compile it on a Pi, but I'd have to find a spare one to use... I really wish there was a decent VM setup for Pi's.. the whole QEMU mess is just that a mess.. too bad VMWware doesn't add ARMHF support... oh well.

Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

Hello mark!

10 Nov 16 11:17, you wrote to me:

clothes and they're too ignorant to understand why... you took a
shortcut when you assumed that JAMNNTPd supportes RFC-3977 when it
doesn't and never purported to do so...

I am not going to start this ....process up.

I did not take a shortcut.. I am looking at what the issue is with Pan and Knode(Knews) not working.

Pan gave the info I needed to start the process, it listed the error Error 500 Unknown Command...

At this point I looked what MODE READER was...

It appears 3 of the most used profer this command up on an intial connection.

No client I've seen goes the route you proffer ie: HELP, parse, CAPABILITIES, parse.. send command...that testing is not definitive as I tested with 3.

It appears the clients are assuming that all servers respond to this, and only thunderturkey seems to basically just ignore a 500 error and then go ahead and issue LIST.

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus,
GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey,
Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP, Post Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn, Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Nice list from wiki, outside of Pan, KNode(Knews), tin, thunderturd, never heard of them.


Rick


... Vote Trump 2016 and Make America Great Again!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Vina's Talos Moon Base Alpha (1:135/377)

10 Nov 16 22:48, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

time was put into than a "hacked" version, obviously.

My offensive hacked version is a Proof Of Concept (POC) to determine if this can be fixed.

ok...

Does adding in some code to respond to MODE READER solve the issue
with Pan, Knode? YES it does.

while that may be true, it does so incorrectly... this is akin to writing workaround code in your software to work around the bugs in other's code... that's pure crap and bullshit... you don't work around other's bugs... you point them out and get them to fix them... fidonet found this out two decades ago... the internet hasn't reached that point yet...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Here Strange ain't Strange!!! It's Normal!!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

10 Nov 16 23:32, you wrote to me:

clothes and they're too ignorant to understand why... you took a
shortcut when you assumed that JAMNNTPd supportes RFC-3977 when it
doesn't and never purported to do so...

I am not going to start this ....process up.

you already did several weeks ago...

I did not take a shortcut..

you sure as hell did, too...

I am looking at what the issue is with Pan and Knode(Knews) not
working.

right... you found out that they are not checking for the capability of a mode switching server before they ASSUME that it is a mode switching server and as such they are disconnecting based on their ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION...

Pan gave the info I needed to start the process, it listed the error
Error 500 Unknown Command...

no... it reported what JAMNNTPd returned...

At this point I looked what MODE READER was...

and you didn't look to see if it was something from RFC-977 which is what JAMNNTPd supports... it does not support anything more than RFC-997 and only two commands from RFC-2980... you'd have seen this if you had read the ReadMe.txt file...

It appears 3 of the most used profer this command up on an intial connection.

that doesn't make them or the practise correct...

No client I've seen goes the route you proffer ie: HELP, parse, CAPABILITIES, parse.. send command...that testing is not definitive as
I tested with 3.

oh well... i guess that means that several others have also taken shortcuts instead of doing thing properly from the outset...

It appears the clients are assuming that all servers respond to this,
and only thunderturkey seems to basically just ignore a 500 error and
then go ahead and issue LIST.

like i said, it doesn't mean that the practise is correct... it won't be the first time that a bunch of popular software packages have been doing things incorrectly all along... quite a few FTN mailers (for an example) used to specifically work around the flawed transmissions from a specific FTN mailer... when those mailers all stopped working around that mailer's flaws, that flawed mailer was finally fixed... think about it... that was roughly two decades ago...

there are quite a few news clients available... Cone, Gemini, Gnus,
GRN, KLibido, Knews, KNode, krn, Lucy, Mahogany, SeaMonkey,
Thunderbird, Newega, NewsFlex, Newsleader, NN, PAN, PINE, PNNTP, Post
Office, Pyne, rn, SkateNews, skim, slrn, Sylpheed, tass, TIN, trn,
Trulsnews, XRN, and xvnews...

Nice list from wiki,

BZZZT! try again! ;)

outside of Pan, KNode(Knews), tin, thunderturd, never heard of them.

obviously :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Beta Testers are crazy, Alpha Testers are totally insane.
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* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:35:22 -0500, mark lewis wrote:

I was actually looking at what it would take to implement compression
support and noticed CAPABILITIES is required per the RFC.

which RFC? CAPABILITIES is not required by RFC977 or by RFC-2980... JAMNNTPd doesn't suppport 3977, 4643, or 4644... someone has gotten something mixed up somewhere... JAMNNTPd is still a Model T... it is not
a Lexus... you can have any color you want as long as it is black...

Yes the implementation of those commands would extend jammntp to
support 3977 readers. I am not sure if there is a requirement for
those readers to fallback to 977.

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* Origin: The Byte Museum - news: news.bytemuseum.org (1:19/10)

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:59:36 -0500, mark lewis wrote:

while that may be true, it does so incorrectly... this is akin to
writing workaround code in your software to work around the bugs in other's code... that's pure crap and bullshit... you don't work around other's bugs... you point them out and get them to fix them... fidonet found this out two decades ago... the internet hasn't reached that point yet...

Good intentions...

I see no problem with a looser implementation provided doing so does
not break something else. I would say that shoving fidonet messages
into NNTP is bound to break something anyway.

I haven't read the RFCs cover to cover and probaly won't ever do so.
I'll only read the parts that are relevant to what I am trying to get
working and then test a suite of readers against it. Call it a 'best
effort'.

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* Origin: The Byte Museum - news: news.bytemuseum.org (1:19/10)