Hello!

One of the local cable companies is rolling out IPv6. All customers with DOCSIS-3 (about 90%) are getting native IPv6 and IPv4 will be CGNatted, i.e. customers get a RFC-1918 address and outgoing traffic is tunneled to a CGN server which NATs several addresses to a single public IPv4 address. It should be obvious that we'll need an IPv6-only flag for the nodelist.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Markus,

On Thursday December 19 2013 16:04, you wrote to All:

One of the local cable companies is rolling out IPv6. All customers
with DOCSIS-3 (about 90%) are getting native IPv6 and IPv4 will be CGNatted, i.e. customers get a RFC-1918 address and outgoing traffic
is tunneled to a CGN server which NATs several addresses to a single public IPv4 address.

I predicted that in one of my Fidonews articles. ;-)

See next message.

It should be obvious that we'll need an IPv6-only flag for the
nodelist.

What we need is a flag to signal that the node can not accept incoming calls via IPv4.

See FSP-1038.001, the INO4 flag.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Markus!

19 Dec 2013 16:04, Markus Reschke wrote to All:

It should be obvious that we'll need an IPv6-only
flag for the nodelist.

no no no no, remove ipv4 in hostname so its clear it only can be called on ipv6, maybe it could be solved another way around with a ipv4 tunnel on ipv6 endpoint ? :)

dyndns comes to my mind here

is isp dening ipv4 public ips now for custommers that ask nicely ?

will you after there change still possible to see ipv4 webpages ?


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.5-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Michiel!

19 Dec 2013 16:36, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> What we need is a flag to signal that the node can not accept
MvdV> incoming calls via IPv4.

no no no no no no, definaly no

MvdV> See FSP-1038.001, the INO4 flag.

is this writed from users that have ipv6 working ?, not via tunnels :(

nodelist should not solve ipv4/ipv6 problems ever !


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.5-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Benny,

On Thursday December 19 2013 20:32, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> What we need is a flag to signal that the node can not accept
MvdV>> incoming calls via IPv4.

no no no no no no, definaly no

Yes, yes yes, definitely yes.

MvdV>> See FSP-1038.001, the INO4 flag.

is this writed from users that have ipv6 working ?, not via tunnels :(

It has nothing to do with IPv6 over a tunnel or native IPv6.

nodelist should not solve ipv4/ipv6 problems ever !

Consider the following situation:

XYZZY is an IPv4 only node. XYZZY runs an IP cabable node, but XYXXY's software is IPv4 only. When doing a DNS lookup for a host name, XYZZY will only look for an IPv4 address. When the node that is to be called only has an IPv6 address, the DNS lookup will fail. And it will keep on failing. An example of such a setup is a classic POTS mailer like Frontdoor that is fooled into thinking it is making a classic modem connection, but actually talks over IP via a shim like Vmodem, Netserial or similar. Frontdoor can easily be configured to never attempt to call a node that carries an INO4 flag.

Without such a flag, it is not possible to stop it from attempting to call an IPv6 only node.

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hi! Michiel,

In a message to Benny Pedersen you wrote:

MvdV> Frontdoor can easily be configured to never attempt to call a node
MvdV> that carries an INO4 flag.

You can include any Argus-derivative mailers too, Michiel. The list of such now includes: Argus, Radius, Taurus & Trapgate.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Can I have what's behind curtain #1 instead?
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Good ${greeting_time}, Michiel!

20 Dec 2013 01:09:26, you wrote to Benny Pedersen:

Without such a flag, it is not possible to stop it from attempting to
call an IPv6 only node.

int getaddrinfo(const char *node, const char *service,
const struct addrinfo *hints,
struct addrinfo **res);

/* ... */

The hints parameter specifies the preferred socket type, or protocol. A NULL hints specifies that any network address or protocol is acceptable. If this parameter is not NULL it points to an addrinfo structure whose ai_family, ai_socktype, and ai_protocol members specify the preferred socket type.

Guess the source of the quote above :-)


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

Hello Benny!

Dec 19 20:27 2013, Benny Pedersen wrote to Markus Reschke:

is isp dening ipv4 public ips now for custommers that ask nicely ?

I expect it to be the same as with fixed IP addresses. You'll have to pay some fee or get a business connection. AFAIK Deutsche Telekom got about 50% unused IPv4 address space. A switch over to them might be an option.

will you after there change still possible to see ipv4 webpages ?

Yes, outgoing IPv4 traffic (and the related traffic back to the user) works fine with CGN.

PS: Currently I'm thinking about switching from ISDN to VoIP because Deutsche Telekom is going to migrate all telephone lines to VoIP during the next years. For customers with POTS or ISDN only the conversion will be done by the MSAN. Customers with DSL will be switched to "all IP", i.e. DSL + VoIP. A nice feature for those all-IP lines is native IPv6 :-) I'll loose X75 but it's going to vanish with the migration later on anyway.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Paul,

On Friday December 20 2013 11:28, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Frontdoor can easily be configured to never attempt to call a
MvdV>> node that carries an INO4 flag.

You can include any Argus-derivative mailers too, Michiel. The list
of such now includes: Argus, Radius, Taurus & Trapgate.

I mentioned Frontdoor just as an example. I was aware of Argus, Radius and Taurus. But Trapgate is new to me. Does it do IPv6?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Alexey,

On Friday December 20 2013 07:40, you wrote to me:

Without such a flag, it is not possible to stop it from
attempting to call an IPv6 only node.

Note that this was about Frontdoor - or any other classic POTS mailer - with a vmodem or telnet shim.

int getaddrinfo(const char *node, const char *service,
const struct addrinfo *hints,
struct addrinfo **res);

All very well, but both Frontdoor the Vmodem and Telnet shims are abandonware and know nothing about IPv6 and they probably never will.

To stop that non IPv6 aware abandonware from attempting to call an IPv6 only node, a nodelist flag is needed.

New IPv6 aware suff can do it better.


--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hi! Michiel,

On Sat, 21 Dec 13, you wrote to me:

MvdV> I mentioned Frontdoor just as an example. I was aware of Argus,
MvdV> Radius and Taurus. But Trapgate is new to me. Does it do IPv6?

No one is saying yet. We've only found out about the thing recently. Nothing on the website; nothing in the documentation; and, the maintainer is yet to answer my netmail or even say a word in the Argus echo. No one that we know of is running it either. Not a lot to go on at this stage.

The maintainer is a fellow Netherlander, Frans Lupschen in Brunssum (2:280/126). Do you know of him?

Cheers,
Paul.

... Two wrongs don't make a right. But three lefts do.
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hello Markus,

On Friday December 20 2013 13:29, you wrote to Benny Pedersen:

I expect it to be the same as with fixed IP addresses.

Here in The Netherlands most DSL providers give you a fixed IP. Cable operators issue dynamic IPs that in practise are fixid IPs. They do not change als long as yiu do not change the router's MAC address.

You'll have to pay some fee or get a business connection.

That is what xan be expected...

AFAIK Deutsche Telekom got about 50% unused IPv4 address space. A
switch over to them might be an option.

That free IP space may soon be gone if they can find a buyer for it. IPv4 addresses sell for about EUR 10 on the market...

will you after there change still possible to see ipv4 webpages ?

Yes, outgoing IPv4 traffic (and the related traffic back to the user) works fine with CGN.

Not all of it. http and binkp will be no problem, but some applications do not work well from behind double NAT. E.g. some voip protocols.

PS: Currently I'm thinking about switching from ISDN to VoIP because Deutsche Telekom is going to migrate all telephone lines to VoIP
during the next years.

Makes sense...

For customers with POTS or ISDN only the conversion will be done by
the MSAN. Customers with DSL will be switched to "all IP", i.e. DSL + VoIP. A nice feature for those all-IP lines is native IPv6 :-)

YEP!

I'll loose X75 but it's going to vanish with the migration later on anyway.

ISDN is a technology that will go the way of the dinosaur anyway. Just like FAX.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Paul,

On Saturday December 21 2013 21:15, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> But Trapgate is new to me. Does it do IPv6?

No one is saying yet. We've only found out about the thing recently. Nothing on the website; nothing in the documentation; and, the
maintainer is yet to answer my netmail or even say a word in the Argus echo. No one that we know of is running it either. Not a lot to go
on at this stage.

I know of soemone who run it:

- 12:20:08 (385) Performing inbound mail scan.
% 12:20:08 (385) Starting thread 0 (4, 23, 406670)
% 12:20:08 (573) Connecting to BinkP site dreamscape.kadm5.com...
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: OPT HLZ PLZ GZ CHT LST UTF CRYPT
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: OPT CRAM-MD5-6e355b98566540d426d58981113a7c6a
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: OPT HLZ PLZ GZ CHT LST CRYPT
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: SYS Trapgate IP Server
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: ZYZ Frans Lupschen
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: LOC Brunssum, Netherlands
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: PHN 86.83.68.78
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: NDL 300,MO,CM,IBN
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: TIME Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:21:16 +0100
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: VER Trapgate/1.114d/19.12.2013,07:07(Beta 5)/Win32
% 12:20:08 (573) BinkP: 2:280/126
% 12:20:09 (385) Task 0 is done.
* 12:20:09 (385) Received 0 files (0K)

The maintainer is a fellow Netherlander, Frans Lupschen in Brunssum (2:280/126). Do you know of him?

I know of him. He returnded to Fidonet earlier this year and I gave him the 126 that he had in the early days. I do not know him well though. I never met him. I exchanged some e-mail with him. He seems to be a bit of a loner, I have not yet seen him him in any echomail area yet.

Perhaps I should reel him in here..


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hi! Michiel,

On Sat, 21 Dec 13, you wrote to me:

MvdV>>> But Trapgate is new to me. Does it do IPv6?

Not a lot to go on at this stage.

MvdV> I know of soemone who run it:
[ ...ho ho ho... ]
I could have quoted similar from my recent mailer session with his node.

The maintainer is a fellow Netherlander, Frans Lupschen in
Brunssum (2:280/126). Do you know of him?

MvdV> I know of him. He returnded to Fidonet earlier this year and I gave
MvdV> him the 126 that he had in the early days. I do not know him well
MvdV> though. I never met him. I exchanged some e-mail with him. He seems
MvdV> to be a bit of a loner, I have not yet seen him him in any echomail
MvdV> area yet.

Oh, okay. I realise it's a big country (I sussed-out Google/Wikipedia in the interim). He seems to be beatling away without any sort of end-game goals. I think I/we (users) can help him with that. :)

MvdV> Perhaps I should reel him in here..

If you want/can spare the time. But he is 'most wanted' (and, welcome) in the Argus echo. ;-)

Cheers,
Paul.

... Bah! Humbug! or as Kiwis say: Haa, bumhug!
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 21 12:06 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> That free IP space may soon be gone if they can find a buyer for
MvdV> it. IPv4 addresses sell for about EUR 10 on the market...

At one company I returned a /16 to RIPE. I should have kept it for me ;-)

Yes, outgoing IPv4 traffic (and the related traffic back to the user)
works fine with CGN.

MvdV> Not all of it. http and binkp will be no problem, but some
MvdV> applications do not work well from behind double NAT. E.g. some
MvdV> voip protocols.

That's right! ISPs running any form of NAT shouldn't be allowed to call their product internet access. Calling it web access would be correct, IMHO.

I'll loose X75 but it's going to vanish with the migration later on
anyway.

MvdV> ISDN is a technology that will go the way of the dinosaur anyway.
MvdV> Just like FAX.

Fax will stay alive for a very long time in Germany. The reason for that is a legal constraint. A qualified fax sending report is an evidence that you sent a letter to the addressee. There's nothing similar for emails. Yes, there is DE-Mail but it's complete BS, cumbersome, expensive and discriminates users against classic mail.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Michiel!

21 Dec 2013 11:49, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

MvdV> All very well, but both Frontdoor the Vmodem and Telnet shims are
MvdV> abandonware and know nothing about IPv6 and they probably never
MvdV> will.

update the vmodem to ipv6 will solve it

MvdV> To stop that non IPv6 aware abandonware from attempting to call an
MvdV> IPv6 only node, a nodelist flag is needed.

nope, old programs writed to prefer ipv4 will stay prefering ipv4, only apps that try best stack will call ipv6 or ipv4 randomly, not even that is a problem, since if nodes using hostnames and not ip addr in nodelist then the underlaying magic will sort it out

its like now when i cant connect to ipv6 from a ipv4 only host

if i was ipv6 only i cant connect to ipv4 aswell

MvdV> New IPv6 aware suff can do it better.

yep, solving it in nodelist is not the best way to solve it


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.5-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Paul,

On Saturday December 21 2013 22:16, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> I know of soemone who run it:

[ ...ho ho ho... ]
I could have quoted similar from my recent mailer session with his
node.

But I was first. ;-)

MvdV>> Perhaps I should reel him in here..

If you want/can spare the time. But he is 'most wanted' (and,
welcome) in the Argus echo. ;-)

I will see what I can do.

In the meantime I got the latest Trapgate beta from him. It does not seem to support IPv6 yet...

http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/FIDOSOFT/Trapgate%20PB6.rar


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hi! Michiel,

On Sun, 22 Dec 13, you wrote to me:

[ ...ho ho ho... ]
I could have quoted similar from my recent mailer session with his
node.

MvdV> But I was first. ;-)

I remember having a similar conversation with xxCarol, when she was still in Japan, about which country saw the rising sun (of a new day) first. She never conceded the point and I don't recall pressing the matter...

: 18-Dec-2013 13:23:10 SysOp : Frans Lupschen from Brunssum, Netherlands

Been there, done that. :)

MvdV>>> Perhaps I should reel him in here..

If you want/can spare the time. But he is 'most wanted' (and,
welcome) in the Argus echo. ;-)

MvdV> I will see what I can do.

Ta, muchly.

MvdV> In the meantime I got the latest Trapgate beta from him. It does
MvdV> not seem to support IPv6 yet...
MvdV> http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/FIDOSOFT/Trapgate%20PB6.rar

Thank you, kindly. (I'm not surprised about nil IPv6 support.) I've got quite a collection of trinkets (a couple of other beta archives as well), for something that hasn't really started to shine for me yet. :)

Cheers,
Paul.

... "so, she said it was either her or the ham radio... OVER."
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 22 11:34 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Paul Quinn:

MvdV> In the meantime I got the latest Trapgate beta from him. It does
MvdV> not seem to support IPv6 yet...

I can provide a mini framework for an IPv4/IPv6 network daemon for linux if anyone is interested. IIRC, I've also included support for interface scopes.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hi,

On 2013-12-22 13:14:38, Markus Reschke wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:
about: "Trapgate & IPv6":

MvdV>> In the meantime I got the latest Trapgate beta from him. It does
MvdV>> not seem to support IPv6 yet...

I can provide a mini framework for an IPv4/IPv6 network daemon for linux if
anyone is interested. IIRC, I've also included support for interface scopes.

Trapgate is a windows only program, afaik...

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32-1.66
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hello Markus,

On Saturday December 21 2013 13:43, you wrote to me:

Yes, outgoing IPv4 traffic (and the related traffic back to the
user) works fine with CGN.

MvdV>> Not all of it. http and binkp will be no problem, but some
MvdV>> applications do not work well from behind double NAT. E.g. some
MvdV>> voip protocols.

That's right! ISPs running any form of NAT shouldn't be allowed to
call their product internet access. Calling it web access would be correct, IMHO.

Indeed. But as most consumers will never know the difference as they do not run servers, but only run client applications, like web browsing an e-mail, I am afraid the ISPs will get away with it... :-(

OTOH, if they do offer fully fledged internet access over native IPv6, they may call THAT part internet access...

Fax will stay alive for a very long time in Germany. The reason for
that is a legal constraint. A qualified fax sending report is an
evidence that you sent a letter to the addressee.

Until the some clever legal eagle convinces a court that since the advent of FAX emulation via FAX modem and PC, forging such a sending report is as easy as manipulating any text file...

Plus that in the end, all that matters is if one can convince the court. At least that is how it works here in The Netherlands. My classic FAX broke down in 1995. I did not replace it and never missed it.

There's nothing similar for emails. Yes, there is DE-Mail but it's complete BS, cumbersome, expensive and discriminates users against
classic mail.

Similar arguments applied to the telegramme and telix service. Both are gone...

Anyway, contrary to ISDN, FAX is not a Fidonet issue. ISDN was a great step for Fidonet. But it is history. Fido over IP has obsoleted ISDN.

Returning to the topic: what will Kabel Deutschland do with existing customers? Will they keer there IPv4 address and will only new customers get a RFC 1918 or RFC 6598 address?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Benny,

On Sunday December 22 2013 00:25, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> All very well, but both Frontdoor the Vmodem and Telnet shims
MvdV>> are abandonware and know nothing about IPv6 and they probably
MvdV>> never will.

update the vmodem to ipv6 will solve it

Oh, c'mon. Vmodem is a closed software propriety abandonware thing. Upgrading to IPv6 is just not going to happen.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Paul,

On Sunday December 22 2013 21:42, you wrote to me:

I could have quoted similar from my recent mailer session with his
node.

MvdV>> But I was first. ;-)

I remember having a similar conversation with xxCarol, when she was
still in Japan, about which country saw the rising sun (of a new day) first. She never conceded the point and I don't recall pressing the matter...

Sure. And I suppose the shortest day that fell on December 21 in this part of the world, may be the a day later or earlier in your neck of the woods.

: 18-Dec-2013 13:23:10 SysOp : Frans Lupschen from Brunssum, Netherlands

Been there, done that. :)

Still... I was the first to /report/ it in here... ;-)

MvdV>>>> Perhaps I should reel him in here..

If you want/can spare the time. But he is 'most wanted' (and,
welcome) in the Argus echo. ;-)

MvdV>> I will see what I can do.

Ta, muchly.

Not much time today. And problably not much time for the next two weeks...

MvdV>> In the meantime I got the latest Trapgate beta from him. It
MvdV>> does not seem to support IPv6 yet...
MvdV>> http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/FIDOSOFT/Trapgate%20PB6.rar

Thank you, kindly. (I'm not surprised about nil IPv6 support.)

Neither am I, but who knows what can be done now that there appears to be some active development. The iron seems to be hot for forging...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hi! Michiel,

On Mon, 23 Dec 13, you wrote to me:

MvdV> Sure. And I suppose the shortest day that fell on December 21 in
MvdV> this part of the world, may be the a day later or earlier in your
MvdV> neck of the woods.

Oooh, I reckon it was yesterday. December 22, for your part of the world. Our local weather guy announced that the 22nd was our longest day, so the opposite has to naturally follow.

: 18-Dec-2013 13:23:10 SysOp : Frans Lupschen from
Brunssum, Netherlands
Been there, done that. :)

MvdV> Still... I was the first to /report/ it in here... ;-)

Ungh. Spoiled sport. ;-)

MvdV>>> http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/FIDOSOFT/Trapgate%20PB6.rar

Thank you, kindly. (I'm not surprised about nil IPv6
support.)

MvdV> Neither am I, but who knows what can be done now that there appears
MvdV> to be some active development. The iron seems to be hot for
MvdV> forging...

My thoughts, exactly. Who knows what may come to pass with copius promises of beer & prawns. :)

Cheers,
Paul.

... Bullsh#t! Pain is just weakness leaving the body. Gaius Marius, 105BCE. --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hello Benny!

Sunday December 22 2013 08:49, Benny Pedersen wrote to Andrew Leary:

It is possible that IPv6 support could be added to
NetSerial for Windows, although IPv6 support on Windows is only
complete on Windows Vista or later.

binkp have ipv6 on windows imho ?

BinkD does. However, various other legacy mailers that people are using in combination with NetSerial or similar do not currently support IPv6.

An IPv6 only node should only have an AAAA record in DNS.

+1

In theory, when an IPv4 only node tries to look up the IPv6
node's DNS record,

this is still possible yes, it should still work since its just dns
data here in that stage

it will fail with NXDOMAIN or similar.

inccorect a ipv4 dns server can still resolve ipv6 hostnames to ipv6
ips

Possibly, but what will the IPv4 only node do with that data? An IPv4 only node will be looking for A records only (it doesn't know what an AAAA record is), and if there isn't a A record in DNS, it will fail to resolve the name to an IP address.

and the other way around will also work, eg a ipv6 only node can still
see full ipv4 dns data

However, this may take some time before the failure occurs.

what failure ? :=)

See above.

Andrew

---
* Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 22 23:48 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> Returning to the topic: what will Kabel Deutschland do with
MvdV> existing customers? Will they keer there IPv4 address and will only
MvdV> new customers get a RFC 1918 or RFC 6598 address?

If I got that right they'll migrate all DOCSIS-3 capable customers (about 90% of all their customers) to native IPv6 and RFC 1918 IPv4 addresses.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Markus,

On Sunday December 22 2013 13:14, you wrote to me:

I can provide a mini framework for an IPv4/IPv6 network daemon for
linux if anyone is interested.

I may be interested if it is something I can install on my Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWrt, so that I can fool the rest of Fidonet into beleiveing that Irex running on my Windows machine is dual stack....


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Markus,

On Monday December 23 2013 13:23, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Returning to the topic: what will Kabel Deutschland do with
MvdV>> existing customers? Will they keer there IPv4 address and will
MvdV>> only new customers get a RFC 1918 or RFC 6598 address?

If I got that right they'll migrate all DOCSIS-3 capable customers
(about 90% of all their customers)

So are there German sysops that are directly affected? I.e their binkp or ftp servers are no longer reacheable over IPv4?

to native IPv6 and RFC 1918 IPv4 addresses.

Not RFC 6598? (100.64.0.0/10)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

24 Dec 2013 00:19, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> Hello Markus,

MvdV> On Sunday December 22 2013 13:14, you wrote to me:

I can provide a mini framework for an IPv4/IPv6 network daemon for
linux if anyone is interested.

yep if its linux it solves more then just the name :=)

MvdV> I may be interested if it is something I can install on my Linksys
MvdV> WRT54GL running OpenWrt, so that I can fool the rest of Fidonet into
MvdV> beleiveing that Irex running on my Windows machine is dual stack....

dante comes to mind here, forward ipv6 linux ip to ipv4 windows server ip, this should work for incomming, but for outgoind there should maybe run squid on the router to get it outgoing ipv4 client to ipv6 server, if dante can this aswell with a linksys then i like to see it aswell

----- dante.ebuild begins -----
* net-proxy/dante
Available versions: 1.1.19-r4 ~1.3.2 ~1.3.2-r1 ~1.4.0_pre1 ~1.4.0_pre1-r1 {debug kerberos pam selinux static-libs tcpd}
Homepage: http://www.inet.no/dante/
Description: A free socks4,5 and msproxy implementation

----- dante.ebuild ends -----

and xinetd can forward aswell from ipv6 to ipv4 servers

----- xinetd.ebuild begins -----
[I] sys-apps/xinetd
Available versions: 2.3.14 2.3.14-r1 2.3.15 2.3.15-r1 {perl rpc tcpd}
Installed versions: 2.3.15-r1(06:17:48 22-11-2013)(-perl -rpc -tcpd)
Homepage: http://www.xinetd.org/
Description: powerful replacement for inetd

----- xinetd.ebuild ends -----

http://www.soekris.eu/ for hardware that will run linux with all its powerfull needs


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.5-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 24 00:19 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> I may be interested if it is something I can install on my Linksys
MvdV> WRT54GL running OpenWrt, so that I can fool the rest of Fidonet
MvdV> into beleiveing that Irex running on my Windows machine is dual
MvdV> stack....

A simple proxy :-) You just need to create the outgoing connection to your server, add some buffer management and let the main loop handle all I/O. The only drawback is that your mailer will see the router as source of all connections.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 24 00:29 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> So are there German sysops that are directly affected? I.e their
MvdV> binkp or ftp servers are no longer reacheable over IPv4?

I don't know, but I've asked.

to native IPv6 and RFC 1918 IPv4 addresses.

MvdV> Not RFC 6598? (100.64.0.0/10)

AFAIK, no.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Markus,

On Tuesday December 24 2013 14:10, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> I may be interested if it is something I can install on my
MvdV>> Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWrt, so that I can fool the rest of
MvdV>> Fidonet into beleiveing that Irex running on my Windows machine
MvdV>> is dual stack....

A simple proxy :-) You just need to create the outgoing connection to
your server, add some buffer management and let the main loop handle
all I/O.

Apart from the fact that I have no idea how to install such a thing on my router - I know almost nothing about Linux - I can envision how this would work on incoming.

The only drawback is that your mailer will see the router as
source of all connections.

Not a big deal probably, as the log will carry enough information to tell the real origin.

But what about outgoing? For now that's more important. I can do without incoming over IPv6 for now, as I am not likely to loose my global IPv4 number in the foreseeable future, but when we see the first IPv6 only nodes, I need outgoing IPv6 to reach them.

I imagine an outgoing proxy would be a lot more complicated as it somehow has to be told to what IPv6 address to connect for which node...

I wonder if that would be practical to install on a router that has limited memory and only has a text ssh interface...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

Dec 26 11:39 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Markus Reschke:

MvdV> But what about outgoing? For now that's more important. I can do
MvdV> without incoming over IPv6 for now, as I am not likely to loose my
MvdV> global IPv4 number in the foreseeable future, but when we see the
MvdV> first IPv6 only nodes, I need outgoing IPv6 to reach them.

Too much trouble :-) Install binkd on the router and put in/outbound, log and links on a net drive.

MvdV> I imagine an outgoing proxy would be a lot more complicated as it
MvdV> somehow has to be told to what IPv6 address to connect for which
MvdV> node...

Exactly!

MvdV> I wonder if that would be practical to install on a router that has
MvdV> limited memory and only has a text ssh interface...

You can buy inexpensive routers with 128MB RAM, a few MB Flash and an USB port. Add an USB flash memory stick or a net drive and you'll have a nice system. Or wait a little bit until the market offers more ARM based routers (dual core, 1GHz, and more RAM) which are supported by OpenWRT.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Markus!

26 Dec 13 13:52, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

You can buy inexpensive routers with 128MB RAM, a few MB Flash and an USB port. Add an USB flash memory stick or a net drive and you'll have a nice system. Or wait a little bit until the market offers more ARM based routers (dual core, 1GHz, and more RAM) which are supported by OpenWRT.

Binkd is available on the Raspberry pi, a minor issue is that Raspbian,
the Debian for Raspberry is currently only IPv4. I expect that that is
mainly done to save memory use, so there is some work to do there.
I have compiled the FidoIp package on raspbian, binkd in that package did
not complete, but golded and the tosser did.
For IPv6 a 1.1 version of Binkd is required anyway.

Kees

--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Markus!

26 Dec 13 13:52, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

In addition to my previous message. To add IPv6 to raspbian, you
only have to load the ipv6 module, so it is there complete an ready.

Kees

--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Markus!

26 Dec 2013 13:52, Markus Reschke wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV>> I imagine an outgoing proxy would be a lot more complicated as it
MvdV>> somehow has to be told to what IPv6 address to connect for which
MvdV>> node...

Exactly!

binkd proxy via squid it works if just using hostname, if using ips its failed

----- binkd.cfg begins -----
domain fidonet /home/xpoint/fidopoint/outbound 2
domain amiganet /home/xpoint/fidopoint/outbound 2
# address 2:230/38.1
address 39:140/127.1
sysname "point 1"
location "home.junc.org"
sysop "Benny Pedersen"
nodeinfo 115200,TCP,BINKP
rescan-delay 1
log /home/xpoint/fidopoint/log/binkd.log
loglevel 3
conlog 2
pid-file /home/xpoint/fidopoint/log/binkd.pid
inbound /home/xpoint/fidopoint/inbound
inbound-nonsecure /home/xpoint/fidopoint/inbound
prescan
root-domain binkp.net
# proxy 127.0.0.1:3128
node 2:230/0 * password
----- binkd.cfg ends -----

squid can run on windows if windows have ipv6 working, else it can fit in small linksys router, or another problem with harddisk install


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.6-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Kees!

26 Dec 2013 16:12, Kees van Eeten wrote to Markus Reschke:

For IPv6 a 1.1 version of Binkd is required anyway.

lets see when there would be a ipv6 only kernel from kernel.org :)

that would fit into the pi, then one could have 2 pi, one for ipv4 and another one for ipv6, it would still work since a single pi would have to serve both, but here it would be half memory foot print if one get it working

i disabled ipv6 only to save memory and did not like tunnels setups either, its not really a problem for me to enable it again


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.6-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Kees!

26 Dec 2013 16:30, Kees van Eeten wrote to Markus Reschke:

In addition to my previous message. To add IPv6 to raspbian, you
only have to load the ipv6 module, so it is there complete an ready.

lol, so its bloat ware, i can again say precompiled problems, but i wont :)


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.12.6-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (1:261/38.20)

Hello Benny!

27 Dec 13 03:44, you wrote to me:

In addition to my previous message. To add IPv6 to raspbian, you
only have to load the ipv6 module, so it is there complete an ready.

lol, so its bloat ware, i can again say precompiled problems, but i wont :)

Whatever makes you happy.

Kees

--- FPD v2.9.040207 GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Kees!

Dec 26 16:30 2013, Kees van Eeten wrote to Markus Reschke:

In addition to my previous message. To add IPv6 to raspbian, you
only have to load the ipv6 module, so it is there complete an
ready.

Would have wondered me ;-) GUI but no IPv6 for saving memory doesn't compute for me :-)

PS: No replies yet ragarding IPv6 nodes in R24.

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Hello Markus,

On Thursday December 26 2013 13:52, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> But what about outgoing? For now that's more important. I can
MvdV>> do without incoming over IPv6 for now, as I am not likely to
MvdV>> loose my global IPv4 number in the foreseeable future, but when
MvdV>> we see the first IPv6 only nodes, I need outgoing IPv6 to reach
MvdV>> them.

Too much trouble :-) Install binkd on the router and put in/outbound,
log and links on a net drive.

I suppose it would be possible to run binkd on a router, but I see no added value over installing it on the machine that runs the tosser and the other fidonet software. Plus that it does not remove the hurdle that I face: the need to switch from AMA to BSO...

Now if ALL the software that is needed to run a fidonet node could run on he router, and it could also hold the message base, it is dfferent. Having a fully stand alone, low power system for Fidonet sounds attractive.

MvdV>> I imagine an outgoing proxy would be a lot more complicated as
MvdV>> it somehow has to be told to what IPv6 address to connect for
MvdV>> which node...

Exactly!

Info that can not be gleened from the IPv4 packets alone, so it must have its own node manager that needs to be configured separately from the main system's configuration. Not practical.

MvdV>> I wonder if that would be practical to install on a router that
MvdV>> has limited memory and only has a text ssh interface...

You can buy inexpensive routers with 128MB RAM, a few MB Flash and an
USB port. Add an USB flash memory stick or a net drive and you'll have
a nice system.

I just picked up a never used Fritz!Box 7340 at the second life shop for EUR 4.50. Looked too good an offer to let pass... So who knows what the future will bring...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)