• DS-Light emulation experiment v2.0

    From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Fri Sep 1 13:42:42 2017
    Hello All,

    My DS-Light experiment v2.0 as announced in Fidonews 34:31 of 31 July is now in full operation.

    I did the following:

    o fido.vlist.eu only resolves to an IPv6 address.

    o binkd only answers on IPv6 ("listen [::]" in binkd.cfg)

    o 2:280/5555 carries the INO4 flag in the nodelist.

    o IPv4 only links are polled every 30 mimutes.

    The plan is to run this experiment for one week.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Sep 1 14:30:27 2017
    MvdV> My DS-Light experiment v2.0 as announced in Fidonews 34:31 of 31 July is
    MvdV> now in full operation.

    AFAICS there's no difference -- everything seems quite normal to and fro this system vs. yours.

    I guess that's a good sign, no?

    What did you actually expect to be different?



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Fri Sep 1 14:59:38 2017
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Friday September 01 2017 14:30, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> My DS-Light experiment v2.0 as announced in Fidonews 34:31 of
    MvdV>> 31 July is now in full operation.

    AFAICS there's no difference -- everything seems quite normal to
    and fro this system vs. yours.

    Of course. We connect via IPv6, so our link is not affected.

    I guess that's a good sign, no?

    Sure, it is what I expected.

    What did you actually expect to be different?

    Nodes that have no outgoing IPv6 capability can not directly connect to my system. If they have a password protected link with me, they will have to wait for me to poll them. Others can route mail for me via 280/0.

    I do not expect to mmiss mail, but mail delivery may be a bit slower.

    So I may get some negative comments from IPv4 only modes.

    The reason for this experiment is to see if it is doable to run a Fidonet node from a DS-Lite connection. My ISP Ziggo, who has a quasi monopoly on cable Internet, is putting all new customers on DS-Lite. Ziggo is a daughter of Liberty Global. Other daughters of Liberty Global in Europa are doing the same. The time that everyone on a consumer connection can have an IPv4 address of their own is coming to an end. The writing is on the wall...

    So we should prepare...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Sep 1 15:40:16 2017
    MvdV> Nodes that have no outgoing IPv6 capability can not directly connect to
    MvdV> my system. If they have a password protected link with me, they will
    MvdV> have to wait for me to poll them. Others can route mail for me via 280/0.

    Ahhh yes, it's kinda like when I changed from 24554 to 24555 for incoming binkp connections. I could one by one rote them out. Now only one remaining, that still doesn't respond to netmail: 2:5020/848.

    MvdV> The reason for this experiment is to see if it is doable to run a
    MvdV> Fidonet node from a DS-Lite connection. My ISP Ziggo, who has a quasi
    MvdV> monopoly on cable Internet, is putting all new customers on DS-Lite.
    MvdV> Ziggo is a daughter of Liberty Global. Other daughters of Liberty Global
    MvdV> in Europa are doing the same. The time that everyone on a consumer
    MvdV> connection can have an IPv4 address of their own is coming to an end.

    Well, I must admit that I haven't paid much attention to the DS-Lite discussions here, since I don't think we have any of it here in Sweden. Our ISPs seem to have either IPv4 only (very rare) or native IPv6 (sometimes at extra cost).

    My ISP (Bahnhof -- as soon as my fibre is connected) has always provided their users with native IPv6. And they've always run the end tunnels for SixXs as well as he.net for Sweden.

    So, I don't think I have to dive into the DS-Lite shite any time soon.




    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Fri Sep 1 19:44:56 2017
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Friday September 01 2017 15:40, you wrote to me:

    Well, I must admit that I haven't paid much attention to the
    DS-Lite discussions here, since I don't think we have any of it here
    in Sweden. Our ISPs seem to have either IPv4 only (very rare) or
    native IPv6 (sometimes at extra cost).
    [..]
    So, I don't think I have to dive into the DS-Lite shite any time
    soon.

    You may be in for a surprise. Native IPv6 comes in three flavours.

    1) Dual stack
    2) DS-Lite
    3) IPv6 only

    All three may be advertised as "Native IPv6". No ISP offers IPv6 only yet AFAIK, but when they say "Native IPv6", it may very well be DS-Lite. With Dual stack, you have a public IPv4 address, just as you had before the coming of IPv6, but with DS-Lite the actual connection is IPv6 only and you get IPv4 via a 4in6 tunnel. The IPv4 address is not a public address, so ot can be used for outhoing connections only. No more running servers on IPv4.

    I have been following the IPv4 depletion for almost a decade and I saw this coming. The IPv4 address space has run out. It is not like oil that is burned when used, the IPv4 addresses are not burned, the addresses that have been assigned are still there and can be used, but there are no new ones. And contrary to oil, there is no possibility of discovering new sources. 2^32 bit is 2^32 bits of address space and that is it.

    So better ask your new fiber provider if their "Native IPv6" is Dual Stack or DS-Lite.


    Cheers, Michiel


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Björn Felten on Sat Sep 2 12:48:00 2017
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

    Well, I must admit that I haven't paid much attention to the DS-Lite discussions here, since I don't think we have any of it here in Sweden. Our ISPs seem to have either IPv4 only (very rare) or native IPv6 (sometimes at extra cost).

    Australia is still overwhelmingly IPv4 only. I'm not aware of any more ISPs offering IPv6. Native IPv6 is one of the reasons I chose my current ISP, I've had it for several years.

    My ISP (Bahnhof -- as soon as my fibre is connected) has always provided their users with native IPv6. And they've always run the end tunnels for SixXs as well as he.net for Sweden.

    So, I don't think I have to dive into the DS-Lite shite any time
    soon.

    I think DS-Lite is a very long way off here, unless there's a sudden switch to it instead of introducing IPv4 CGN. Of those two options, I would prefer DS-Lite.


    ... Moderator Rule #1: Warnings are for wimps, cut links!
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Wed Sep 6 11:29:04 2017
    Hello All,

    Friday September 01 2017 13:42, I wrote to you:

    The plan is to run this experiment for one week.

    A little over 48 hours to go. All goint to plan. Nothing special to report yet...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Fri Sep 8 00:34:11 2017
    Hello All,

    Wednesday September 06 2017 11:29, I wrote to you:

    A little over 48 hours to go. All going to plan. Nothing special to
    report yet...

    The experiment is almost over. I plan to publish the results in a Fidonews article, but frankly until now there is nothing spectacular to report. If anyone has anything to comment, now is the time...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Sep 7 20:59:12 2017
    Hello Michiel,

    On Fri Sep 08 2017 00:34:10, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:

    The experiment is almost over. I plan to publish the results in a
    Fidonews article, but frankly until now there is nothing spectacular
    to report. If anyone has anything to comment, now is the time...

    Just happy you were able to keep yourself busy in your spare time this past week, is all. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Ingo Juergensmann@2:2452/413 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Sep 8 07:25:06 2017
    Hello Michiel!

    08 Sep 17 00:34, you wrote to all:

    The experiment is almost over. I plan to publish the results in a
    Fidonews article, but frankly until now there is nothing spectacular
    to report. If anyone has anything to comment, now is the time...

    Well, you have announced your experiment only in this IPv6 related area, haven't you? I wouldn't expect many issues in this regards from an IPv6 peer group. Maybe you should extend your experiment and announce it in fn_sysops or so?

    Ingo


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
    * Origin: AmigaXess - back in FidoNet after 17 years (2:2452/413)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ingo Juergensmann on Fri Sep 8 07:46:28 2017
    Well, you have announced your experiment only in this IPv6 related area, haven't you?

    Didn't you read the original posting?

    "My DS-Light experiment v2.0 as announced in Fidonews 34:31 of 31 July is now in full operation."

    The Fidonews is the official Fidonet information source, not any specific echoes.



    ..

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  • From Ingo Juergensmann@2:2452/413 to Björn Felten on Fri Sep 8 10:08:26 2017
    Hello Bjrn!

    08 Sep 17 07:46, you wrote to me:

    Well, you have announced your experiment only in this IPv6
    related area, haven't you?
    Didn't you read the original posting?
    "My DS-Light experiment v2.0 as announced in Fidonews 34:31 of 31
    July is now in full operation."
    The Fidonews is the official Fidonet information source, not any specific echoes.

    Oh, missed that point. But I guess announcing it not only in Fidonews wouldn't do any harm... ;)

    Ingo


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
    * Origin: AmigaXess - back in FidoNet after 17 years (2:2452/413)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ingo Juergensmann on Fri Sep 8 10:08:00 2017
    Hello Ingo,

    On Friday September 08 2017 07:25, you wrote to me:

    The experiment is almost over. I plan to publish the results in a
    Fidonews article, but frankly until now there is nothing
    spectacular to report. If anyone has anything to comment, now is
    the time...

    Well, you have announced your experiment only in this IPv6 related
    area, haven't you?

    No. As Bjrn already pointed out, I announced it in Fidonews. Ik also send netmail to all directly involved: i.e. the sysops of the nodes with which I have a password protected link.

    I wouldn't expect many issues in this regards from an IPv6 peer group. Maybe you should extend your experiment and announce it in fn_sysops
    or so?

    Nah, FN_Sysop isn't read by all that many either. In this case I consider hardly getting any response as a measure of success. Running a node from a (simulated) DS-Lite connection works!


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)