Hello All,

My ISP, Ziggo invited me to join a beta team that will test their Horizon Mediabox.

I told them that already in 2009 I decided not to let any new network equipment into the house that does not support IPv6. The Horizon mediabox does not support IPv6.

So I declined and told them that I would reconsider when it supports IPv6 and happily help testing it with IPv6.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All <=-

So I declined and told them that I would reconsider when it supports
IPv6 and happily help testing it with IPv6.

Good call. :)


... Shell to DOS, come in DOS, do you copy? Over...
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Tony,

On Wednesday April 13 2016 22:30, you wrote to me:

So I declined and told them that I would reconsider when it
supports IPv6 and happily help testing it with IPv6.

Good call. :)

I think it is time we let those ISPs that are dragging their feet om IPv6 know, that we are nearing the point of "too little, Too late". The odd thing is that in general I am satisfied with them. They provide a stable service.

But after five years of promises, still no native IPv6. So I used the opportunity to tell them again how peeved I am. This time with the warning that they would not be the first party I walked away from for lack of IPv6 support.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

I think it is time we let those ISPs that are dragging their feet om
IPv6 know, that we are nearing the point of "too little, Too late". The odd thing is that in general I am satisfied with them. They provide a stable service.

It's long past the time that IPv6 should be standard. There's precious few ISPs here that do it still, and as I have said before, my choice was partly due to the availability of IPv6 at the time, and nowadays, IPv6 is a major reason to stay, as well as their service being rock stable and having an excellent helpdesk who are well trained people who behave and treat you like valued customers, rather than acting as droids who just follow the book. And yes, they are a little more expensive, but in this case, you do get what you pay for. :)

But after five years of promises, still no native IPv6. So I used the opportunity to tell them again how peeved I am. This time with the warning that they would not be the first party I walked away from for lack of IPv6 support.

They need to hear that as often as possible.


... Objects in taglines are closer than they appear.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Tony,

On Thursday April 14 2016 07:01, you wrote to me:

I think it is time we let those ISPs that are dragging their
feet om IPv6 know, that we are nearing the point of "too little,
Too late". The odd thing is that in general I am satisfied with
them. They provide a stable service.

I have to give it to them: they took it seriously. Eerlier today they called me. Not to offer me an IPv6 Horizon Mediabox, they did not have that, but they had looked into my situation and noticed that I still had an old Motorole Surfboard modem. That old lady isn't going to support native IPv6. So they offered me a replacement modem/router that is IPv6 capable. So that when it is enabled in my area, I would have it.

Stay tuned...

It's long past the time that IPv6 should be standard.

Of course.

Last week I had a hefty discussion in a Dutch forum. My position was that not only the ISPs and the manufacturers are to blame, but some of the blame rests on the consumers as well. It is the consumers that keep buying the IPv4 only stuff. A notorious example is teh Sony Play Station. PS4 needs a public IP address, but it has no IPv6 support. So... they stopped working properly when customers were switched to a DS-Lite connection.

They blamed the ISP.

My position was that they should blame Sony for being too late with supporting IPv6. Sony is not the grocerer around the corner, it is a globally operating company and surely UPC NL is not the first, the only, and the last company that is switching to DS-Lite. Sony should have seen this coming for years and adapted their product for the changing environment.

Maybe I wasn't all that diplomatic in conveying the message, but I still stand by it. Consumers have a responsibility as well. They should stop buying IPv4 only stuff/

And not just consumers have a responsibility. The same, and perhaps even more, applies to organisations financed by public money. A smoothly operating internet is a public interest.

But after five years of promises, still no native IPv6. So I
used the opportunity to tell them again how peeved I am. This
time with the warning that they would not be the first party I
walked away from for lack of IPv6 support.

They need to hear that as often as possible.

See, above. At least they did listen..


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

I have to give it to them: they took it seriously. Eerlier today they called me. Not to offer me an IPv6 Horizon Mediabox, they did not have that, but they had looked into my situation and noticed that I still
had an old Motorole Surfboard modem. That old lady isn't going to
support native IPv6. So they offered me a replacement modem/router that is IPv6 capable. So that when it is enabled in my area, I would have
it.

That's a promising sign, maybe they will go IPv6, or maybe they're just trying to stop you switching ISPs. See what happens. Here's hoping you'll end up with native IPv6 in the not too distant future.

At least they know a customer who'd be prepared to beta test an IPv6 rollout.
)



... Flashlight: A case for holding dead batteries.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Tony,

On Friday April 15 2016 16:28, you wrote to me:

That's a promising sign, maybe they will go IPv6, or maybe they're
just trying to stop you switching ISPs.

They /are/ going IPv6, but as you van cee from this graph, it isn't going all that smoothly:

http://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/AS9143?a=9143&c=NL&x=1&s=0&p=1&w=1

There was a half hearthed attempt in Oct 2014 which was rolled back completely. Then something similar in Nov 2015 and since Jan 2016 they are rollong out and rolling back with three steps forward, two steps back...

Their main problem seems to be buggy CPEs.

See what happens. Here's hoping you'll end up with native IPv6 in the
not too distant future.

Who knowa, I may have native IPv6 next week. Or Xmas 2026. ;-)

At least they know a customer who'd be prepared to beta test an IPv6 rollout. )

I think that was their main mistake. NOT having a pilot with a limited á test group five years ago. Had they done that, than the bugs in the CPEs would have been ironed out long ago. At least for a limited number of CPEs

It seems they have run out of time and are now rolling out in panic mode and they are flooded with problems...

That due to mergers and upgrades they have about two dozen different modem/routes out in the field does not help then either...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Their main problem seems to be buggy CPEs.

Hmm, sounds like a bit of a disaster. :/

See what happens. Here's hoping you'll end up with native IPv6 in the
not too distant future.

Who knowa, I may have native IPv6 next week. Or Xmas 2026. ;-)

At least they know a customer who'd be prepared to beta test an IPv6 rollout. )

I think that was their main mistake. NOT having a pilot with a limited
á test group five years ago. Had they done that, than the bugs in the CPEs would have been ironed out long ago. At least for a limited number of CPEs

My ISP rolled out IPv6 infrastructure, but left it up to customers to enable. Customers were then given an opt in to the trial, they had to obtain suitable IPv6 equipment. The trial was successful and well received. I purchased one of their routers and joined the trial. Less than a year later, IPv6 went into production mode. :)


... Useless Invention: Particle board tent stakes.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Tony,

On Friday April 15 2016 20:29, you wrote to me:

Their main problem seems to be buggy CPEs.

Hmm, sounds like a bit of a disaster. :/

Indeed it does. IPv6 guru Iljitsch van Beijnum's prediction that the transition would be messy seems to come true in this case...

My ISP rolled out IPv6 infrastructure, but left it up to customers to enable. Customers were then given an opt in to the trial, they had to obtain suitable IPv6 equipment. The trial was successful and well received. I purchased one of their routers and joined the trial.
Less than a year later, IPv6 went into production mode. :)

So THEY did it right. ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Hello Tony,

On Friday April 15 2016 20:29, you wrote to me:

Their main problem seems to be buggy CPEs.

Hmm, sounds like a bit of a disaster. :/

Indeed it does. IPv6 guru Iljitsch van Beijnum's prediction that the transition would be messy seems to come true in this case...

And so it was. ;)

My ISP rolled out IPv6 infrastructure, but left it up to customers to enable. Customers were then given an opt in to the trial, they had to obtain suitable IPv6 equipment. The trial was successful and well received. I purchased one of their routers and joined the trial.
Less than a year later, IPv6 went into production mode. :)

So THEY did it right. ;-)

Yes, they managhed it very well, but that's to be expected. They are pretty proactive and well managed. :)


... On-line: The idea that a human should always be accessible.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Tony!

Apr 16 19:34 2016, Tony Langdon wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

My ISP rolled out IPv6 infrastructure, but left it up to customers to
enable. Customers were then given an opt in to the trial, they had to
obtain suitable IPv6 equipment. The trial was successful and well
received. I purchased one of their routers and joined the trial.
Less than a year later, IPv6 went into production mode. :)

So THEY did it right. ;-)

Yes, they managhed it very well, but that's to be expected. They are pretty proactive and well managed. :)

Excellent! Would be nice if all would follow that migration path. Less hassle for everyone. I think the ISPs/telcos going for IPv6 right now or soon will provide a lot of entertainment ;)

Regards,
Markus

---
* Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)

Markus Reschke wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Yes, they managhed it very well, but that's to be expected. They are pretty proactive and well managed. :)

Excellent! Would be nice if all would follow that migration path. Less hassle for everyone. I think the ISPs/telcos going for IPv6 right now
or soon will provide a lot of entertainment ;)

Sounds like a lot of pain, before it's sorted. :)


... Every action has an equal and opposite government program
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Markus,

On Saturday April 16 2016 13:40, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

So THEY did it right. ;-)

Yes, they managhed it very well, but that's to be expected. They
are pretty proactive and well managed. :)

Excellent!

Actually we have a small ISP here by the name of Xs4all who also did it right. They started five years ago and ar now offering stable IPv6 to all customers. Unfortunately switching to them is not really an option for me. I am not all that far from the exchange building, just under a km, but the PSTN copper in the street is medieval. I had a good look at it last summer when the street was open for renovation of the sewers. Those cables are old! An inner shielding of led and an outer shielding of steel immersed in tar. I could never get more then 26K6 with my V90 modem on that... So I expect their DSL won't come anywhere near the lowest speed (40/4) that the cable guys can offer.

Would be nice if all would follow that migration path.

It is a bit late for that isn't it? The early birds like your ISP and Xs4All here were fixing the roof before it started to rain. But here end now they can no lomber afford the luxury of doing it in their own time. The IPv4 party is over. Some IPSs are just forced to go DS-Lite instead of full dual stack.

Less hassle for everyone. I think the ISPs/telcos going for IPv6 right
now or soon will provide a lot of entertainment ;)

Entertainment for us, the watchers. But I expect some will pay the ultimate price of bankruptcy for missing the boat. :(


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:1117::1 (2:280/5555)