• FTA-1000 FTSC Charter Revisions

    From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to All on Mon Nov 28 06:39:07 2022

    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3 needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Administrator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
    * Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 14:06:57 2022
    Hi Andrew,

    On 2022-11-28 06:39:07, you wrote to All:

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3
    needs to be reduced.

    I can guess why it's "needed". But I think it should be clearly specified...


    Bye, Wilfred.

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    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 07:37:00 2022
    Andrew Leary wrote to All <=-

    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is
    needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members
    in 2.1.3 needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus
    in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to
    provide their input on this proposal.

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why
    that would be needed?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
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  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Mon Nov 28 09:05:59 2022
    On 28 Nov 22 07:37:00, Dan Clough said the following to Andrew Leary:

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus
    in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to
    provide their input on this proposal.

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why that would be needed?

    Me for one.

    There are not enough tech-people who want to be or are competent to be FTSC paper tigers. The FTSC is a relic from the days when there was sufficient tech-talent that could properly document whatever was trendy in Fido at the time. There's been nothing trendy since BinkD...

    In the last couple of elections there have been people elected to the FTSC with gross misconceptions of what the FTSC does; or people elected because they believe a politician is needed more than tech talent.

    It could be argued that the FTSC should be entirely disbanded now and the documents put on Github or whatever repository but then we have a question of who gets to maintain that to prevent certain people from rewriting history or reinventing wheels.

    Its better to have the absolute bare minimum of odd-numbered tech-people to occasionally wipe the dust off the documents if and when someone discovers some weird spelling mistake or something open to misinterpretation.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Mon Nov 28 15:10:13 2022
    Hi Danm

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why that would be needed?

    I have suggested that.

    The reason being that of the 10 current mandates 7 expire end of March. There will be an election, but if not at least 4 people get nominated and elected, under current rules the FTSC as a Fidonet-unit expires.

    The change makes sense ... no ? I would even drop the lower treshold to 3, but I'm not involved in that part of the process ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 09:10:19 2022
    On 28 Nov 22 06:39:07, Andrew Leary said the following to All:

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    Seconded.

    Nick

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  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 15:52:03 2022
    Hello Andrew!

    Monday November 28 2022 06:39, you wrote to All:


    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3
    needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide
    their input on this proposal.

    I agree.


    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v8 X64/Mbse v1.0.8/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 14:55:42 2022


    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3 needs to be
    reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Administrator


    Are you going to treat this as a "referendum" and count votes? If so, my vote is in favour.

    JD
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Mon Nov 28 15:57:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why that would be needed?

    I have suggested that.

    The reason being that of the 10 current mandates 7 expire end of
    March. There will be an election, but if not at least 4 people
    get nominated and elected, under current rules the FTSC as a
    Fidonet-unit expires.

    Okay, so if the number decreases to 5 that would only require 2 nominations/elections, as I understand it.

    The change makes sense ... no ? I would even drop the lower
    treshold to 3, but I'm not involved in that part of the process
    ...

    Yes, it does make sense, and thank you for your help in clarifying this
    for me. Perhaps a change to 5 (from 10) for now, with thought (and discussion) given to bringing it to 3 at some point in the future if
    that makes sense at the time.



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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 28 16:08:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    On 28 Nov 22 07:37:00, Dan Clough said the following to Andrew
    Leary:

    > AL> As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public
    > AL> concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet
    > AL> SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why that would be needed?

    Me for one.

    Ack.

    There are not enough tech-people who want to be or are competent
    to be FTSC paper tigers. The FTSC is a relic from the days when
    there was sufficient tech-talent that could properly document
    whatever was trendy in Fido at the time. There's been nothing
    trendy since BinkD...

    Okay, that makes sense to me. One thing that I have noticed lately in
    Fido is "mobile" access to echos, with software such as Telegram and Aftershock, which seems quite "trendy" to me. I'll withhold my opinion
    of such for an appropriate forum.

    In the last couple of elections there have been people elected to
    the FTSC with gross misconceptions of what the FTSC does; or
    people elected because they believe a politician is needed more
    than tech talent.

    I do recall the last one as having some controversy.

    It could be argued that the FTSC should be entirely disbanded now
    and the documents put on Github or whatever repository but then
    we have a question of who gets to maintain that to prevent
    certain people from rewriting history or reinventing wheels.

    Absolutely. You'd still need a committee/group who controls privileges
    on the Github project. Seems like work for the same thing we have now.

    Its better to have the absolute bare minimum of odd-numbered
    tech-people to occasionally wipe the dust off the documents if
    and when someone discovers some weird spelling mistake or
    something open to misinterpretation.

    Sounds right to me. Thanks for your explanations.



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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 28 16:13:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Andrew Leary <=-

    On 28 Nov 22 06:39:07, Andrew Leary said the following to All:

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    Seconded.

    I also agree with this, if Andrew is keeping a tally.



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  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Mon Nov 28 17:54:18 2022
    On 28 Nov 22 16:08:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick Andre:

    Okay, that makes sense to me. One thing that I have noticed lately in Fido is "mobile" access to echos, with software such as Telegram and Aftershock, which seems quite "trendy" to me. I'll withhold my opinion
    of such for an appropriate forum.

    I should of clarified... trendy as in, a Fido tech thing that benefits the internal workings of the network. Something that many Sysops worldwide accepted as solving a problem that was worth documenting as a standard.

    Moving packets with a protocol like BinKD as opposed to dialup or the
    freaking mess that was TransX emails, FTP etc.... BinkD was tech that had a significant contribution to improving mail flow.

    But Telegram.... mehhhhh... I dunno. I know some people like it but it comes across as being one persons pet project. One person's board goes down and the gating stops. Its not really a protocol, it comes across more as a gateway by one single person. There are many Sysops who don't really see that benefit.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nigel Reed@nospam@nospam.com to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 18:33:51 2022
    On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 06:39:07 -0500
    "Andrew Leary" <andrew.leary@1:320/219> wrote:

    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3
    needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide
    their input on this proposal.

    Might have been nice to post "2.1.3" for those of us who don't know
    every section of every document inside out, however from reading the
    discussion and points made by my fellow sysops, I shall cast my yay
    vote for the proposal whether it be an official or unofficial tally.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 28 19:26:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    On 28 Nov 22 16:08:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick
    Andre:

    Okay, that makes sense to me. One thing that I have noticed lately in Fido is "mobile" access to echos, with software such as Telegram and Aftershock, which seems quite "trendy" to me. I'll withhold my opinion
    of such for an appropriate forum.

    I should of clarified... trendy as in, a Fido tech thing that
    benefits the internal workings of the network. Something that
    many Sysops worldwide accepted as solving a problem that was
    worth documenting as a standard.

    I think there are (some) Sysops who think the above might be the "next
    big thing". I'm not one of them, for the record.

    Moving packets with a protocol like BinKD as opposed to dialup or
    the freaking mess that was TransX emails, FTP etc.... BinkD was
    tech that had a significant contribution to improving mail flow.

    ACK.

    But Telegram.... mehhhhh... I dunno. I know some people like it
    but it comes across as being one persons pet project. One
    person's board goes down and the gating stops. Its not really a
    protocol, it comes across more as a gateway by one single person.
    There are many Sysops who don't really see that benefit.

    Agreed on all, but there are some that think it solves a problem
    (difficult access to FTNs from mobile devices) and that it benefits Fido
    by expanding the number of people who have access to messaging. I
    suspect it's an "issue" that isn't going to just fade away.

    As always, time will tell.



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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nigel Reed on Tue Nov 29 10:38:10 2022
    Nigel,

    Might have been nice to post "2.1.3" for those of us who don't know
    every section of every document inside out, however from reading the discussion and points made by my fellow sysops, I shall cast my yay
    vote for the proposal whether it be an official or unofficial tally.

    Surfing to www.ftsc.org will take care of everything you want to know about the FTSC.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Andrew Leary on Fri Dec 2 07:41:33 2022
    28 Nov 2022 06:39, you wrote to All:

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide
    their input on this proposal.

    It's a yes from me.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Andrew Leary on Thu Dec 1 23:25:22 2022
    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3 needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    I am in agreement.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
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  • From Angel Ripoll@2:341/66 to Andrew Leary on Thu Dec 8 16:42:16 2022
    Hola Andrew!

    28 Nov 22 06:39, Andrew Leary dijo a All:


    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3 needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Administrator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
    * Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

    I agree

    Un saludo,
    Angel Ripoll
    aripoll @ zruspas.org

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    * Origin: Synchronet - bbs.zruspas.org - Zruspa's BBS - (2:341/66)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Nick Andre on Sat Dec 10 10:41:38 2022
    28 Nov 2022 17:54, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    I should of clarified... trendy as in, a Fido tech thing that benefits
    the internal workings of the network. Something that many Sysops
    worldwide accepted as solving a problem that was worth documenting as
    a standard.

    One interesting thing I've seen that could have been "trendy" in that sense is the FGHI-URL specification.
    But I AFAIK it has only been (partially) implemented by a few programs...

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Carlos Navarro on Sat Dec 10 21:27:00 2022
    Good ${greeting_time}, Carlos!

    10 Dec 2022 10:41:38, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    I should of clarified... trendy as in, a Fido tech thing that
    benefits the internal workings of the network. Something that
    many Sysops worldwide accepted as solving a problem that was
    worth documenting as a standard.
    One interesting thing I've seen that could have been "trendy"
    in that sense is the FGHI-URL specification. But I AFAIK it
    has only been (partially) implemented by a few programs...

    It was never implemented completely, so there never was even reference implementation, not to mention common practice.

    Given that, it was obviously dead-born.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Andrew Leary on Sun Dec 11 17:21:59 2022
    Re: FTA-1000 FTSC Charter Revisions
    By: Andrew Leary to All on Mon Nov 28 2022 06:39 am


    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members in 2.1.3 needs to b reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to provide their input on this proposal.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Administrator


    Hi Andrew,

    ist thing I noted is in notepad, the format was all run on. In wordpad it's fine. Tat one detail doesn't make a revision but wth all our various OS types now, it may cause some to have issues.

    I can fix that over Christmas. I can add the 7 to 5 as well if liked. Let me know.

    xxcarol
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  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dan Clough on Sun Dec 11 17:41:48 2022
    Re: Re: FTA-1000 FTSC Charter Revisions
    By: Dan Clough to Andrew Leary on Mon Nov 28 2022 07:37 am

    Andrew Leary wrote to All <=-

    Hello everybody!

    It has been suggested that a revision of the FTSC Charter is
    needed, specifically that the minimum number of standing members
    in 2.1.3 needs to be reduced.

    I support revising this to a minimum of 5 vs. the current 7.

    As revisions to the FTSC Charter require a broad public concensus
    in FTSC_PUBLIC, I welcome any/all interested FidoNet SysOps to
    provide their input on this proposal.

    Who is suggesting that it be revised, and what reason is given as to why that would be needed?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    There are many who feel it's an adjunct of a bygone era of growth. Me, I think some members forgot they are there to foster growth and just want to cut down ideas instead of letting the proposals in then let time test to see if they grow to standards.

    Becasuse of that view, many innovators do not want to play while some don't want those waning to listen, to be there because they don't program major projects. That results in fewer candidates willing to *try* to make things better, even if in small ways.

    I would like to change that perception. What we need, is people willing to listen to new ideas and help them make a trial of them, with enough info that another can jump along and try it too.

    In the meantime, we face reality. The one 'group' that is by charter to foster inovation, isn't going too well.

    I want better for us all.

    xxcarol
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  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.12 to Alexey Vissarionov on Tue Dec 13 21:21:43 2022
    Hi Alexey,

    On 10/12/22 21:27 you wrote:

    One interesting thing I've seen that could have been "trendy" in
    that sense is the FGHI-URL specification. But I AFAIK it has only
    been (partially) implemented by a few programs...
    It was never implemented completely, so there never was even reference implementation, not to mention common practice.

    I only know about Golded-NSF and HotdogEd (and some sites like fido.g0x.ru, wfido.ru), that have implemented a small part of the spec, the area:// schema with msgid filter.

    But even if it was just that, I think it's a very interesting idea.

    Carlos
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: cyberiada mobile point (2:341/234.12)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to Carlos Navarro on Wed Dec 14 01:03:28 2022
    Hello, Carlos!

    Tuesday December 13 2022 21:21, from Carlos Navarro -> Alexey Vissarionov:

    I only know about Golded-NSF and HotdogEd (and some sites like fido.g0x.ru, wfido.ru), that have implemented a small part of the
    spec, the area:// schema with msgid filter.

    There are a few fido editors which support this, specifically SimpleX (2:5061/120), HellEd (2:5030/1520.9), FGHI URL gate (WebBBS), WFido (2:5020/556.1) and Fidofox (Mithgol, see below).

    But even if it was just that, I think it's a very interesting idea.

    This might be a great idea indeed, but in Russian-speaking world it kinda has a negative connotation though.
    It all started at the point when a guy who called himself "Mithgol the Webmaster" coined a phrase "hypertext FidoNet".
    Moreover, he raised this topic during the online session with the Russian prime minster Medvedev (https://youtu.be/RSrr3JR4L20, Russian only).
    Since then, the term hypertext FidoNet or Mithgol himself have come sorta toxic topic.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: Linux 2.6.32-042stab145.3 (2:5015/46)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Nil Alexandrov on Mon Dec 26 09:09:25 2022
    14 Dec 2022 01:03, you wrote to me:

    I only know about Golded-NSF and HotdogEd (and some sites like
    fido.g0x.ru, wfido.ru), that have implemented a small part of the
    spec, the area:// schema with msgid filter.

    There are a few fido editors which support this, specifically SimpleX (2:5061/120), HellEd (2:5030/1520.9), FGHI URL gate (WebBBS), WFido (2:5020/556.1) and Fidofox (Mithgol, see below).

    I found more about those here:

    https://traditio.wiki/%D0%93%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B8 %D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%82
    (shortened: https://bbs.lc/GrxVI)

    I also found another project, PhiDo (also by Mithgol).

    This might be a great idea indeed, but in Russian-speaking world it
    kinda has a negative connotation though. It all started at the point
    when a guy who called himself "Mithgol the Webmaster" coined a phrase "hypertext FidoNet". Moreover, he raised this topic during the online session with the Russian prime minster Medvedev (https://youtu.be/RSrr3JR4L20, Russian only). Since then, the term hypertext FidoNet or Mithgol himself have come sorta toxic topic.

    Interesting. The video doesn't have subtitles and I don't understand Russian, but I found more info (translatable by Google or Yandex) in the link above. Thanks for all the info.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)