Who needs guns when there are other options available?
Bjrn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-
Who needs guns when there are other options available?
Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
the preferred "gun" in the US...
I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in
mind, when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
apparently everybody in the US?
when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
apparently everybody in the US?
Yes, it's everybody (actual US citizens anyway) in the USA.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
apparently everybody in the US?
Yes, it's everybody (actual US citizens anyway) in the USA.
Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated
militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every
day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.
So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
performing a background check?
Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.
Mass shootings are (mostly) done by US Americans. US Americans,
by observation, are (emotionally) not well regulated.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-
I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind,
when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?
Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-
Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
the preferred "gun" in the US...
It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over that one, although it's not bad for what it is.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated
militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...
There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political parties that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix things.
Kurt Weiske wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-
Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
the preferred "gun" in the US...
It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over that one, although it's not bad for what it is.
I'm old school - I would love to get an M1 Garand or M1 carbine,
the rifle I'm sorry I missed when they were dirt cheap on the
surplus market is the Moisin Nagant. Seems they've got up in
price significantly.
There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political
parties that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix
things.
I'm surprised that the US health care-industrial complex hasn't lobbied
to solve the problem for an astronomical ongoing cost.
There was an interesting article in WaPo a couple of days ago,
asking "How dumb can a nation get and still survive?". I guess we are about to find out rather soon...? 8-)
Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition,
are not well regulated.
So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
performing a background check?
They often/usually steal them, or buy them from other criminals.
Who needs guns when there are other options available?
Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 -- the preferred
"gun" in the US...
I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind, when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?
when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
apparently everybody in the US?
Yes, it's everybody (actuaI US citizens anyway) in the USA.
Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, arenot
well regulated.
So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even performing
a background check?
Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Dan wrote (2021-10-14):
Bj}{rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition,
are not well regulated.
So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
performing a background check?
They often/usually steal them, or buy them from other criminals.
Is that so?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shootin
g
In February 2017, Cruz legally purchased an AR-15 style
semi-automatic rifle from a Coral Springs gun store, after having
passed the required background check. Prior to the purchase he
had similarly obtained several other firearms, including at least
one shotgun and several other rifles. At the time of the
shooting, in Florida, it was legal for people as young as 18 to
purchase guns from federally licensed dealers, including the
rifle allegedly used in the shooting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting
Since 2007, he had been a security guard for G4S Secure
Solutions. The company said two screeningsone conducted upon
hiring and the other in 2013had raised no red flags. Mateen
held an active statewide firearms license and an active security
officer license, had passed a psychological test, and had no
criminal record.
Federal officials said a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle
and a 9mm Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol were recovered from
Mateen's body, along with additional rounds. Mateen had legally
purchased the two guns used in the shooting from a shop in Port
St. Lucie: the SIG Sauer MCX rifle on June 4 and the Glock 17
pistol on June 5. He and law enforcement were reported to have
fired over 200 rounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
On the evening of October 1, 2017, Stephen Paddock, a
64-year-old man from Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire upon the crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas
Strip in Nevada. From his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay
Hotel he fired more than 1,000 bullets, killing 60 people and
wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the number of
injured to 867. About an hour later, Paddock was found dead in
his room from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His motive is
officially undetermined.
Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and
numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100
rounds apiece were found in the suite. Fourteen of the firearms
were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles: three
manufactured by Colt, two by Daniel Defense, two by FN Herstal,
two by LWRC International, two by POF-USA, one with a .223 Wylde
chamber by Christensen Arms, one made-to-order by LMT, and one by
Noveske. The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles,
one .308-caliber Ruger American bolt-action rifle, and one
.38-caliber Smith & Wesson Model 342 revolver. The AR-15 rifles
were fitted with vertical forward grips and bump stocks, the
latter of which allowed for recoil to actuate their triggers at a
rate of 90 rounds in 10 seconds.[146] The AR-10 rifles were
equipped with various telescopic sights and mounted on bipods.
Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from
fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles,
ight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill
himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver.
During the subsequent investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined that the firearms
found in his hotel room, along with more guns found in his homes,
had been legally purchased in Nevada, California, Texas, and
Utah. In the month preceding the shooting, he had attempted to
purchase tracer ammunition, but the gun dealer he approached did
not have the item in stock. He bought tracer ammunition from a
private seller at a Phoenix, Arizona gun show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_FedEx_shooting
In March 2020, Hole's mother contacted the local authorities
and warned them about her son's intent to die by suicide by cop
and his purchase of a shotgun the day before, prompting an
investigation to be opened. Police responded to the home and took
him to a hospital. While being placed in handcuffs, an anxious
Hole instructed the officers to turn off his computer, since he
did not want anyone to see what was on it. An officer went
upstairs to seize the shotgun and observed what he identified as
white supremacist websites on Hole's computer in the process.
Hole was placed in an "immediate detention mental health
temporary hold" by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police
Department. In April 2020, the FBI questioned Hole about the
websites. The investigation was later closed due to insufficient
evidence of any criminal violation or a racially motivated
extremist ideology held by Hole, though the shotgun was not
returned to him.
According to the police, Hole used two AR-15 style rifles in
the shooting, and both of them were legally purchased from a
licensed gun store in July and September 2020. Under Indiana's
red flag law, Hole could have been prevented from making firearm
purchases for at least six months after his temporary mental
health detainment if a hearing had been scheduled with a judge
fourteen days after the seizure of his shotgun. However, Marion
County prosecutors decided to not schedule such a hearing,
believing authorities had already achieved the law's objective
since Hole's family did not want the seized shotgun back.
Prosecutor Ryan Mears also said that if his office had proceeded
with the hearing and lost, given Hole had been treated by medical professionals but not prescribed any medication, they would have
been forced to return the shotgun to him. The police did not
reveal where Hole had bought the rifles used in the shooting,
instead saying the investigation was still ongoing.
They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the
crimes described.
Americans have rights.
Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, arenot
well regulated.
Mass shootings are (mostly) done by US Americans. US Americans, by observation, are (emotionally) not well regulated.
There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two politicalparties
that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix things.
There was an interesting article in WaPo a couple of days ago, asking "How dumb can a nation get and still survive?". I guess we are about to find out rather soon...? 8-)
Trump 2.0 coming soon ...
The Norwegian guy was walking around town, shooting people with bows
and arrows, at random.
Americans do not do that.
US Americans you mean, for sure? Are you saying, that every bullet,
from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits its intended target? If so, sounds like very well regulated militia...
The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from invading again...
Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?
Conclusion: it works.
X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: TZUTC: 0020
BTW, it seems like Nick still hasn't figured out this extremely
complicated time zone kludge:
X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: TZUTC: 0020
Surely, your not 20 minutes off from UTC in Belgium? 8-)
And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays, the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment
so it can safely be repealed, ...
And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world
reduced their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had
been "won", now back to peace. No?
Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the
present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than
the entire rest of the world on their military -- and still keep
increasing it. No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...
Just be aware the 'TZUTC: 0020' has been approved by the nodelist
police.
The US expenditure in the Middle East since 9/11 could have eradicated hunger from the world.
It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.
OK, so now read every single example you copy/pasted below. They all
say that the perpetrator *LEGALLY* bought the guns they used. That's because..... <DRUMROLL> ...... they were *NOT* *CRIMINALS* when they purchased the firearms. They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the crimes described.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-
I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind,
when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?
Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-
Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
the preferred "gun" in the US...
It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over that one, although it's not bad for what it is.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated
militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...
The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from
invading again...
Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?
Conclusion: it works.
And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays,
the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment so it can safely be repealed, the same way the fiasco of the 18th went?
Thusly saving some 40 thousand US lives every year and making the country almost as safe as the rest of the civilized world to live in. No?
(But of course, what's 40k/year compared to the 750k COVID casualties that the GOP is responsible for?)
And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world reduced
their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had been "won", now back to peace. No?
Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than the entire rest of the world on their military -- and still keep increasing it. No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...
US Americans you mean, for sure? Are you saying, that every bullet,
from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits its intended target? If so,
sounds like very well regulated militia...
The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from invading again...
Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?
Conclusion: it works.
Americans have rights.
Severely crippled it appears? Why do you accept extremely undemocratic stuff
like gerrymandering, Electoral Collage and abridged filibuster (long gone is the Mr. Smith Goes To Washington style)?
And, above all -- your Senate? Really? A senator from WY represents 300k citizens and one from CA represents 20M? With equal voting rights?
In Sweden we too had this arrogant "we have to make sure the stupid populace
in the other chamber doesn't make any mistakes" two chamber system, but we abolished it more than half a century ago, and we're doing fine, democratically.
And folks who we claim are mentally retarded? While it is
true we sometimes vote for a retard as POTUS, it is not
true we allow retards to vote.
It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.
You plan the prescription drugs you're going to take?
I take mine on the advice of my doctor.
It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.
You plan the prescription drugs you're going to take?
I take mine on the advice of my doctor.
And folks who we claim are mentally retarded? While it is
true we sometimes vote for a retard as POTUS, it is not
true we allow retards to vote.
They are sent towards "news://eljaco.se" so they can post here.
David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-
OK, so now read every single example you copy/pasted below.+ They all
say that the perpetrator *LEGALLY* bought the guns they used.+ That's because..... <DRUMROLL> ...... they were *NOT* *CRIMINALS* when they purchased the firearms.+ They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the crimes described.
Are you sure?
In this country one does not become a criminal until one is
convicted of a crime, not the alleged execution of the act. Sure
in your country people have that same freedom?
Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
you never will.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
you never will.
Hey Dan, don't say such things. You're making a case which you
can't prove.
The past 49 years I've lived a total of 7 years in the USA and
I've got a pretty good understanding of differences and
similarities, that experience did not come from a 10-day
fly/drive vacation in California augmented by Wikipedia.
My freedom of speech here in Belgium is just as available and
restricted as yours, About politicians we also wonder who the
hell got them elected, just as you do. Our friend Bjorn's country
has women's rights enacted in such a way any other country should
be jealous.
2nd ammendment? I can get a gun here in Belgium just as easy as
in the USA, only the background check lasts 2 weeks and you'll
get a bi-annual unannounced visit by the police to check upon
your weapon. People just are not interested that much in owning a
gun ... it's expensive, especially the ammo.
If you think you have got superb freedoms that we don't have,
please list them.
Lee Lofaso wrote to David Drummond <=-
I used to self-medicate. But I learned better as I found
myself in the back seat of a squad car. Only took one trip
to convince me. This was a long time ago ...
The US expenditure in the Middle East since 9/11 could have eradicated
hunger from the world.
That's one of the many "wars" that USA, and many other countries that for various, mostly politically or economically corrupt, reasons follow suit, have started.
Wars that doesn't even have a theoretical chance of being winnable for the simple reason that they have no exit strategy, so no way to know when to stop.
Another such "war" is of course the war on drugs.
A not only economical disaster, but also demographical.
Millions of people all over the world are being put in jail for times often
in par with rape or murder -- even for just being users.
The people higher up are so well connected, that they almost always escape scot free, filthy rich.
The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from
invading again...
Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?
Conclusion: it works.
And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays,
the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment so it can safely be repealed, the same way the fiasco of the 18th went?
Thusly saving some 40 thousand US lives every year and making the country almost as safe as the rest of the civilized world to live in. No?
(But of course, what's 40k/year compared to the 750k COVID casualties that the GOP is responsible for?)
And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world reduced
their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had been "won", now back to peace. No?
Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than the entire rest of the world on their military --
and still keep increasing it.
No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...
Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
you never will.
Let's leave it at "everybody firmly believes that their own country is
the best."
Yeah, whatever. You're trying to split the same ass-hair that your
buddy Beorn did. Quit being a pedantic moron.
Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
you never will.
Hey Ward, sorry but I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. It's like arguing about politics or religion. Nobody wins.
Let's leave it at "everybody firmly believes that their own country is
the best."
The Norwegian guy was walking around town, shooting people with bows
and arrows, at random.
Rumour has it that the guy was from Denmark. Always those damn immigrants, eh?
Americans do not do that.
US Americans you mean, for sure?
Are you saying, that every bullet, from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits
its intended target?
If so, sounds like very well regulated militia...
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