• FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3

    From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to All on Wed May 9 22:29:40 2018
    ================================================================
    A R T I C L E S
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    Reprint for those who may have missed it:
    Jk

    fido.Z1C message #2149 from Andrew Leary to All.
    Entered on 2nd May, 2018 at 08:36, 173 lines.

    Subject: IMPORTANT: Z1C Election Rules REVISED
    ==============================================

    * Originally in Z1C
    * Crossposted in Z1_ELECTION

    Hello everybody!

    === Cut ===
    02-May-2018 ZONE 1 COORDINATOR (Z1C) ELECTION RULES

    ============================================

    RULES FOR CONDUCT OF THE Z1C ELECTION, 2018

    * Schedule:

    May 07 - May 20 Nominations accepted.
    Discussion begins.
    May 20 - Nominations END at 23:59:59 UTC.
    May 21 - Final list of candidates posted in
    Z1_ELECTION.
    Discussion continues.
    May 27 - Discussion ends. Candidates stop
    campaigning.
    May 28 - Voting begins.
    Jun 10 - Voting ends at 23:59:59 UTC.
    Jun 11 - Results posted in Z1_ELECTION.
    Jun 11 - Jun 24 Opportunity to yell fowl and fix
    errors.
    Jun 25 - Final results announced.
    Jun 25 - Jun 28 Turnover from outgoing ZC to
    winning candidate.
    Jun 29 - New ZC appears in the nodelist and
    begins work.

    * Position to be Elected:

    The election is for the position of Zone 1 Coordinator
    (Z1C). The responsibilities of the Z1C include but are not
    limited to:

    -- To compile the nodelists from all of the regions in the
    zone, and create the master nodelist and difference file.

    -- To represent Zone 1 on the Zone Coordinator Council.

    -- See Policy 4 for further details.

    * Voter Eligibility:

    The eligible list is based on the Zone 1 segment of the
    FidoNet NodeList published on Friday, May 4, 2018 (Day 124.)

    Each sysop has one vote, regardless of how many nodes s/he
    operates.

    Nodes with more than one sysop get only one vote.

    Nodes marked 'Down' are not eligible to vote.

    * Nominations, Candidates:

    Nominations will be placed in the Z1_ELECTION echo
    conference. To be a candidate, a FidoNet sysop must be a
    current member of Zone 1, and be seconded by another FidoNet
    sysop. In addition, due to the technical nature of the
    position, current or previous *C experience is required. An
    individual may not nominate himself or second himself.
    Nominations, seconds, and acceptances MUST be confirmed via
    netmail to the Enforcer at 1:128/2 BEFORE the close of the
    nomination period.

    * Election:

    At the close of balloting, the Enforcer will send all
    ballots to the Verifier to verify the results, and a summary
    of the results will be posted in Z1_ELECTION.

    The Enforcer will not disclose any node's vote to any other
    node, except for the Verifier.

    In the event only there is only one candidate properly
    nominated s/he will become the new Zone 1 Coordinator,
    effective May 25, 2018.

    * Comments by the Candidates:

    Comments by Z1C candidates are to be posted in Z1_ELECTION
    no later than 23:59:59 UTC on May 27. After that, they must
    STOP campaigning in Z1_ELECTION until the voting period
    ends. All discussion will take place in Z1_ELECTION.

    * Who Wins?

    The winner will be determined as the candidate receiving
    more than half of the number of valid votes, otherwise known
    as an absolute majority. In the event no candidate receives
    an absolute majority, the Enforcer will schedule a run-off
    election between the top vote getters.

    * Challenges, Election Results:

    The results may be challenged by sending netmail to the
    Enforcer at 1:128/2. It must be received before 23:59:59
    UTC on Jun 24, 2018. No complaints or contested votes will
    be considered if received late.

    The Enforcer has the final say in all matters relating to
    the election, including the eligibility of candidates and/or
    voters.

    If the election is declared invalid, a new election shall
    begin as soon as possible, within 14 days of the previous
    election being declared invalid.

    * How to SEND your vote:

    ALL BALLOTS MUST BE NETMAIL ADDRESSED TO 'Enforcer' at
    1:128/2.

    You can route your ballot if you choose, but if you value
    your privacy and want to ensure arrival, you should send it
    directly to 1:128/2. Return receipts will be sent via
    direct or routed netmail. Those return receipts will
    contain NO information except that a vote was received from
    your node.

    * HOW TO VOTE:

    - Write a a NETMail message addressed to 'Enforcer' at
    1:128/2.

    - Subject line doesn't matter.

    - Write the name of the valid candidate you want to vote for
    in the body of the message. A final list of valid
    candidates will be posted on May 21 in Z1_ELECTION.
    Write-in candidates are not allowed.

    - Make up a password of ten (10) characters or less, and put
    that in the body of the message too.

    NOTE: Your password will be displayed (case insensitive)
    with your choice in Z1_ELECTION so you can know that your
    ballot was counted correctly.
    In addition, votes received that do not meet ALL of the
    above conditions will not be counted until corrected by the
    voter.

    * SAMPLE BALLOT:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    | Date: May 28 2018 11:09 |
    | From: Joe Sysop, 1:320/999 |
    | To: Enforcer, 1:128/2 |
    | Subj: My vote |
    | -------------------------------------------- |
    | <Candidate's Name> |
    | |
    | My password is Hoochie |
    | |
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    When your vote is received, it will NOT be machine-processed.
    Don't poll to pick up a receipt. The Enforcer will send a
    direct or routed netmail receipt to you confirming that he
    received a ballot but there will be no other information in
    the receipt.

    To ensure that your vote was counted properly, you may check
    the periodic posting of passwords/candidates in Z1_ELECTION.

    Thank you to Phil Kimble (1:128/2) for agreeing to serve as
    the Enforcer, and Fred Riccio (1:132/174) for agreeing to
    serve as the Verifier.

    * That's it. Enjoy the election!
    === Cut ===

    The RCs have made a few minor changes to clarify things and
    ensure that the election runs smoothly. As of now, the election
    is in the hands of the Enforcer, Phil Kimble of 1:128/2. Please
    contact him with any questions.

    Regards,

    Andrew

    -@- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    ! Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)



    FIDOGAZETTE Vol 12 No 19 Page 3 May 09, 2018


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Janis Kracht on Thu May 10 09:33:17 2018
    Janis,

    Jun 11 - Jun 24 Opportunity to yell fowl and fix errors.

    How about if someone yells 'carnivore' or 'fish'?

    Nominations will be placed in the Z1_ELECTION echo conference.

    Can this conference be picked up freely somewhere ?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR25
    * Origin: Resist-Insist-Persist-Enlist / onwardtogether.org (2:292/854)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Ward Dossche on Thu May 10 13:40:06 2018
    Hi Ward,
    Jun 11 - Jun 24 Opportunity to yell fowl and fix errors.

    How about if someone yells 'carnivore' or 'fish'?

    eh.. doubt anyone would listen to ya.. :)

    Nominations will be placed in the Z1_ELECTION echo conference.

    Can this conference be picked up freely somewhere ?

    Hopefully -not-. As the name implies, it is for Zone 1 sysops only.

    Take care,
    Janis

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Janis Kracht on Thu May 10 19:54:30 2018
    Hello Janis,

    On Thursday May 10 2018 13:40, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Nominations will be placed in the Z1_ELECTION echo conference.

    Can this conference be picked up freely somewhere ?

    Hopefully -not-. As the name implies, it is for Zone 1 sysops only.

    Then why advertise it in a globally distributed medium?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Janis Kracht on Thu May 10 22:21:00 2018
    Janis,

    Jun 11 - Jun 24 Opportunity to yell fowl and fix errors.

    How about if someone yells 'carnivore' or 'fish'?

    eh.. doubt anyone would listen to ya.. :)

    Well, if it's OK to yell 'fowl', I think it should be OK to yell 'fish'.

    Now yelling "foul" I could understand ...

    Nominations will be placed in the Z1_ELECTION echo conference.

    Can this conference be picked up freely somewhere ?

    Hopefully -not-. As the name implies, it is for Zone 1 sysops only.

    It's not in the rules.

    So we must keep reading it from another system which makes it available just like Z1C? Nothing in echomail is secret, it could as well be opened to all with write-restrictions which can easily be implemented. I don't care if our sysop-echoes are read, as long as they aren't spammed that's OK ... for me.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR25
    * Origin: Resist-Insist-Persist-Enlist / onwardtogether.org (2:292/854)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Ward Dossche on Thu May 10 20:14:24 2018
    So we must keep reading it from another system which makes it available just like Z1C? Nothing in echomail is secret, it could as well be opened to all

    Grow up for once Ward...

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Janis Kracht on Fri May 11 11:34:23 2018
    Janis,

    Grow up for once Ward...

    All ZCs have complimentary read and write access in our sysop-conference. It has proven useful.

    ZC4 returned the favour, and it wasn't abused a single time.

    So when is ZC1 going to grow up and open up Z1C to her peers? Nothing in these so-called secret echoes really is a secret, so why not open them in a controlled way?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR25
    * Origin: Resist-Insist-Persist-Enlist / onwardtogether.org (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Fri May 11 04:13:15 2018
    Re: Re: FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3
    By: Ward Dossche to Janis Kracht on Fri May 11 2018 11:34 am

    Nothing in these so-called secret echoes really is a secret,

    So-called secret echoes? The area is listed in backbone.na and the elist. No secrets there.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Fri May 11 14:29:27 2018

    Nothing in these so-called secret echoes really is a secret,

    So-called secret echoes? The area is listed in backbone.na and the elist. No secrets there.

    Being listed on backbone.na and elist bears very little weight in certain portions of the world.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR25
    * Origin: Resist-Insist-Persist-Enlist / onwardtogether.org (2:292/854)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Ward Dossche on Sat May 12 00:50:42 2018
    Hi Ward,

    Nothing in these so-called secret echoes really is a secret,

    So-called secret echoes? The area is listed in backbone.na and the elist.
    No secrets there.

    Being listed on backbone.na and elist bears very little weight in certain portions of the world.

    Still... it is not a "secret" echo hidden from view as some have been in Z2 (and probably Z1<g>) :)

    The fact that the membership of the echo does not want members of other zones to have access is their right... As you know, I asked them what they wanted to do regarding access, and it was decided to not have you post or read in that echo. Seems simple to me :)

    Now another Z1C may ask the membership again after our Z1C election... my voice
    will just be one of the sysops then.. but I'll still feel the same way about the Z1C echo - it's an admistrative echo intended to be provide access to the Zone 1 Coordinator. A place where uninvited guests are not allowed... since they no reason to be there..

    Take care,
    Janis

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Janis Kracht on Sat May 12 10:02:09 2018
    Hello Janis,

    On Saturday May 12 2018 00:50, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    The fact that the membership of the echo does not want members of
    other zones to have access is their right...

    That still does not answer the question why you advertise it (Z1_ELECTION) in a
    globally distributed publication (The FidoGazette).

    Or is the FidoGazette not supposed to be read outside Z1 either?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Sat May 12 02:11:30 2018
    Re: Re: FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3
    By: Ward Dossche to Alan Ianson on Fri May 11 2018 02:29 pm

    So-called secret echoes? The area is listed in backbone.na and the
    elist. No secrets there.

    Being listed on backbone.na and elist bears very little weight in certain portions of the world.

    Denial is not a river in Egypt.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... People say I'm apathetic, but I don't care.
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat May 12 02:16:22 2018
    Re: FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Janis Kracht on Sat May 12 2018 10:02 am

    That still does not answer the question why you advertise it (Z1_ELECTION) in a globally distributed publication (The FidoGazette).

    Z1_ELECTION was not advertised, it was simply mentioned that the election was happening there. Is FidoGazette not an approriate place to read about the election?

    I believe it is perfectly appropriate.

    Or is the FidoGazette not supposed to be read outside Z1 either?

    Where would you get an idea like that?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Sat May 12 11:59:11 2018
    Hello Alan,

    On Saturday May 12 2018 02:16, you wrote to me:

    That still does not answer the question why you advertise it
    (Z1_ELECTION) in a globally distributed publication (The
    FidoGazette).

    Z1_ELECTION was not advertised, it was simply mentioned that the
    election was happening there.

    This is what I read:

    The election for a new Zone 1 Coordinator has started, as of May
    7th, 2018. Please see the published schedule in the Z1C echo or
    in the Z1_ELECTION echo.

    What I see is an invitation to go read the published schedule in Z1C or Z1_ELECTION. There is no mention that the invitation only applies to Z1 sysops.

    Is FidoGazette not an approriate place to read about the election?

    Not if the election is a Z1 only thing...

    I believe it is perfectly appropriate.

    I beg to differ. If non Z1 sysops are not even welcome to read about the election, then it should ne announced in a Z1 only medium.

    Or is the FidoGazette not supposed to be read outside Z1 either?

    Where would you get an idea like that?

    Because it is used to announce an event where non Z1 members are not welcome.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat May 12 04:15:46 2018
    Re: FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Alan Ianson on Sat May 12 2018 11:59 am

    The election for a new Zone 1 Coordinator has started, as of May
    7th, 2018. Please see the published schedule in the Z1C echo or
    in the Z1_ELECTION echo.

    What I see is an invitation to go read the published schedule in Z1C or Z1_ELECTION. There is no mention that the invitation only applies to Z1 sysops.

    Point taken. I will mention to the powers that be that a proper announcement be made so that everyone can be informed.

    Is FidoGazette not an approriate place to read about the election?

    Not if the election is a Z1 only thing...

    It is a Z1 thing, but all of Fidonet should be informed at least.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... A problem can be found for almost every solution
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat May 12 10:16:18 2018
    On 2018 May 12 11:59:10, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    This is what I read:

    The election for a new Zone 1 Coordinator has started, as of May
    7th, 2018. Please see the published schedule in the Z1C echo or
    in the Z1_ELECTION echo.

    What I see is an invitation to go read the published schedule in Z1C or Z1_ELECTION. There is no mention that the invitation only applies to Z1 sysops.

    since those two echos are Z1Only, it stands to reason that that paragraph or article would only apply to Z1 folks... perhaps that article or paragraph could
    have been prefixed by something like

    IF YOU ARE NOT IN Z1, SKIP TO THE NEXT ARTICLE

    sould that make you happy??

    Is FidoGazette not an approriate place to read about the election?

    Not if the election is a Z1 only thing...

    bullshit...

    I believe it is perfectly appropriate.

    I beg to differ. If non Z1 sysops are not even welcome to read about the election, then it should ne announced in a Z1 only medium.

    whaaaa... don't be such a snowflake...

    Or is the FidoGazette not supposed to be read outside Z1 either?

    Where would you get an idea like that?

    Because it is used to announce an event where non Z1 members are not welcome.

    so what! fidonews has been done the same in the past, too... boohoo...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... You know, it's all very sweet, stealing from the rich, selling to the poor...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alan Ianson on Sat May 12 10:20:12 2018
    On 2018 May 12 04:15:46, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    What I see is an invitation to go read the published schedule in Z1C
    or Z1_ELECTION. There is no mention that the invitation only applies
    to Z1 sysops.

    Point taken. I will mention to the powers that be that a proper announcement be made so that everyone can be informed.

    the announcement has already been done... no one else needs to know anything more about it... not the schedule or procedures or even the candidates... it is
    a Z1 thing and no one else needs to be sticking their noses into it...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... How shall I vote thee? Let me recount the ways. Shakespeare in Florida
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to mark lewis on Sat May 12 13:49:10 2018
    On 2018 May 12 04:15:46, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    What I see is an invitation to go read the published schedule in Z1C
    or Z1_ELECTION. There is no mention that the invitation only applies
    to Z1 sysops.

    Point taken. I will mention to the powers that be that a proper
    announcement be made so that everyone can be informed.

    the announcement has already been done... no one else needs to know anything
    more about it... not the schedule or procedures or even the candidates... it i
    a Z1 thing and no one else needs to be sticking their noses into it...

    You are exactly right Mark.. I'm sure when the election is done the RCC will make an announcement of the winner in appropriate places. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Sun May 13 09:59:52 2018
    Hello Alan,

    On Saturday May 12 2018 04:15, you wrote to me:

    Point taken. I will mention to the powers that be that a proper announcement be made so that everyone can be informed.

    Thank you.

    It is a Z1 thing, but all of Fidonet should be informed at least.

    Between adult democracies it is good practice to allow observers (international
    press, foreign representatives) at elections. This is important in international relations to gain respect and thrust that the winner of the election is choosen in a proper democratic process and has a full mandate.

    Just a thought.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Alan Ianson on Sun May 13 14:01:27 2018
    Hello Alan,

    12 May 18 02:11 at you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Denial is not a river in Egypt.

    But it's certain people's typical MO which just needs to be ignored.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... Nothing ever becomes real till it is experienced. - John Keats
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun May 13 17:41:14 2018
    Re: FidoGazette Vol 12 no 19 Page: 3
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Alan Ianson on Sun May 13 2018 09:59 am

    Point taken. I will mention to the powers that be that a proper
    announcement be made so that everyone can be informed.

    Thank you.

    I did post that request. We'll have to see what comes of it.

    Between adult democracies it is good practice to allow observers (international press, foreign representatives) at elections. This is important in international relations to gain respect and thrust that the winner of the election is choosen in a proper democratic process and has a full mandate.

    Fidonet, as I'm sure you know, is not a democracy.

    The RCs of Z1 could simply choose a new ZC. They have chosen (at Janis's request if I'm not mistaken) to hold an election for Z1C.

    That process is now underway and is progressing smoothly.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al


    ... It doesn't work, but it looks pretty.
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)