• no == not a ?

    From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to All on Sat Jan 5 17:15:00 2019
    Hi, ALL!

    At https://www.cbsnews.com/world/ I read:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    Lawyer in Moscow, family of retired Marine Paul Whelan and U.S.
    government sources all say he is no spy, as his dual nationality is
    revealed
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    So we can change "not a" for "no"?

    Bye, ALL!
    Alexander Koryagin

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alexander Koryagin on Sat Jan 5 11:37:36 2019
    On 2019 Jan 05 17:15:00, you wrote to All:


    At https://www.cbsnews.com/world/ I read:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    Lawyer in Moscow, family of retired Marine Paul Whelan and U.S.
    government sources all say he is no spy, as his dual nationality is revealed
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    So we can change "not a" for "no"?

    you could and it wouldn't change the meaning... at least not as i read it...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... The first myth of management is that it exists.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Jan 6 07:52:11 2019
    Hi! Alexander,

    On 05 Jan 19 11:37, mark lewis wrote to you:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    Lawyer in Moscow, family of retired Marine Paul Whelan and U.S.
    government sources all say he is no spy, as his dual nationality
    is revealed
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    So we can change "not a" for "no"?

    you could and it wouldn't change the meaning... at least not as i read it...

    I agree with Mark, though I would prefer it as the "no" version looks like it implies a North American jingoism.

    That could be my fault as we are exposed to a lot of USofA news & entertainment
    here. So much so that I am currently enjoying a "cowboys's breakfast" of bacon, beans, eggs, brown bread & coffee. Yee-ha!

    Ardith? What say you...?

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    ... finer temptress, Through the ages she's heading west,
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to PAUL QUINN on Sat Jan 5 20:04:00 2019
    That could be my fault as we are exposed to a lot of USofA news &
    entertainmen
    here. So much so that I am currently enjoying a "cowboys's breakfast" of bacon, beans, eggs, brown bread & coffee. Yee-ha!

    LOL, I think of that as a british type breakfast, but it still sounds great!

    <GRIN>

    Mike

    ---
    SLMR 2.1a L&N -- The Old Reliable
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Jan 6 12:40:50 2019
    Alexander Koryagin:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    Lawyer in Moscow, family of retired Marine Paul Whelan and U.S.
    government sources all say he is no spy, as his dual nationality is revealed
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    So we can change "not a" for "no"?

    I think that "no" is stronger and more emotional than "not
    a".

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Paul Quinn on Wed Jan 9 14:20:46 2019
    Hi, Paul! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    Lawyer in Moscow, family of retired Marine Paul Whelan
    and U.S. government sources all say he is no spy, as
    his dual nationality is revealed
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    So we can change "not a" for "no"?

    you could and it wouldn't change the meaning... at
    least not as i read it...

    I agree with Mark, though I would prefer it as the "no"
    version looks like it implies a North American jingoism.

    That could be my fault as we are exposed to a lot of
    USofA news & entertainment here. So much so that I am
    currently enjoying a "cowboys's breakfast" of bacon,
    beans, eggs, brown bread & coffee. Yee-ha!

    Ardith? What say you...?


    WRT the meaning, I agree that it's essentially the same either way.

    WRT feeling swamped by USAian culture, you're not alone. Canadians often experience that too. It could be argued that you were eating an English breakfast... but I'm trying to get down to brass tacks here. I see nothing in the examples I can think of to indicate the "no" version is [esp. US]:


    I'm no plaster saint.

    I'm no raving beauty.

    -- said by me & by various others I have known


    Q. Who was that lady I saw you with last night?
    A. That was no lady, that was my wife.

    -- a joke I heard from my father, when I was a
    kid and "lady" was not synonymous with "woman"


    "He is no gypsy, my father," she said,
    "But Lord of these lands all over."


    -- from a song called THE WHISTLING GYPSY, AKA
    THE GYPSY ROVER, composed by Leo Maguire of
    Dublin during the 1950's


    They are no members of the common throng;
    They are all noblemen who have gone wrong.

    -- from THE PIRATES OF PENZANCE by Gilbert and
    Sullivan, first performed in 1879


    WRT connotation, Anton summarized neatly what I had in mind there: the "no" version comes aross as stronger & more emotional to me as well.

    A lot of what we see & hear about USAians in general seems "larger than life"... but just as not all Aussies sound like the Crocodile Hunter not all USAians dress badly & demand hamburgers everywhere they go. Those who do things like that get more attention than those who don't & sometimes it seems all North Americans (!) look alike from the other side of whichever ocean. I understand how you feel about "jingoism"... while as a Canadian I'd plead not guilty. It seems to me jingoism is patriotism carried to an extreme or... in the words of my RANDOM HOUSE WEBSTER'S... proclaimed loudly & excessively.

    If the "no" version rubs you the wrong way, I think that's because you see some exaggeration... as I do in what I quoted above. Feelings may be running high WRT the situation Alexander referred to, and I have noticed that when people are reacting emotionally they tend to think in terms of good guys vs. bad guys, us vs. them, and so forth. In the last two examples I cited, a person who knows the accused quite well is challenging the accuser(s) to look more closely at the situation & draw conclusions on an individual basis. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384.125 to Ardith Hinton on Thu Jan 10 09:23:33 2019
    Hi! Ardith,

    On 01/09/2019 02:20 PM, you wrote:

    Q. Who was that lady I saw you with last night?
    A. That was no lady, that was my wife.

    -- a joke I heard from my father, when I was a kid and "lady" was not synonymous with "woman"

    Same with me. In support of my point I'm thinking that that was from Groucho Marx film.

    WRT connotation, Anton summarized neatly what I had in mind there: the "no" version comes aross as stronger & more emotional to me
    as well.

    Not for me. But language is very much a personal interpretation and expression
    of worldly things.

    If the "no" version rubs you the wrong way, I think that's because you see some exaggeration... as I do in what I quoted above.

    No, I simply see it as an error in personal choice. When it comes time to pull
    such a 'standard' response I would opt for "not a".

    Feelings may be running high WRT the situation Alexander referred to,
    and I have noticed that when people are reacting emotionally they tend
    to think in terms of good guys vs. bad guys, us vs. them, and so forth.
    In the last two examples I cited, a person who knows the accused quite well is challenging the accuser(s) to look more closely at the situation
    & draw conclusions on an individual basis. :-)

    My oh my. I knew you would have fun with this thought teaser of Alexander's. ;)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

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  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Paul Quinn on Tue Jan 15 23:56:06 2019
    Hi, Paul! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    Q. Who was that lady I saw you with last night?
    A. That was no lady, that was my wife.
    -- a joke I heard from my father, when I was a
    kid and "lady" was not synonymous with "woman"

    Same with me. In support of my point I'm thinking that
    that was from Groucho Marx film.


    Groucho Marx may well have used it, but the earliest known reference
    to a variation on the theme dates back to the late nineteenth century & at this
    point it's difficult to be sure who said it first. Some folks theorize that it
    originated in the English music halls. If the idea was widely adopted in other
    English-speaking countries, though, the history is even more uncertain.... :-)



    WRT connotation, Anton summarized neatly what I had in
    mind there: the "no" version comes aross as stronger &
    more emotional to me as well.

    Not for me. But language is very much a personal
    interpretation and expression of worldly things.


    Connotations may be general, personal, or both. I probably wouldn't
    have thought about that aspect if Anton hadn't mentioned it... but when he did,
    I realized he'd put into words what was in the back of my mind. It seems to me
    you were getting +/- the same impression, then began to doubt yourself.... :-)



    If the "no" version rubs you the wrong way, I think
    that's because you see some exaggeration... as I do
    in what I quoted above.

    No, I simply see it as an error in personal choice.


    Okay... let me rephrase that. The "no" version sounds more emphatic
    because it's shorter, for one thing. Usually there is no need to add emphasis.
    But in situations where somebody is saying, in effect, "Don't put me [or person
    xxx] in this or that pigeonhole" they may use it consciously or subconsciously.

    WRT the example Alexander cited I see a further complication in that
    we don't know exactly what these people said. Songwriters, comedians, and news
    reporters often have a vested interest in arousing the audience's emotions. If
    you know what they're up to, you can decide to go along with it or not.... ;-)



    When it comes time to pull such a 'standard' response
    I would opt for "not a".


    The "not a" version is much more common, and I'd recommend it as the
    first choice in the vast majority of situations. The "no" version is so rarely
    used that it took me a couple of days to think of five examples.... :-)



    In the last two examples I cited, a person who knows
    the accused quite well is challenging the accuser(s)
    to look more closely at the situation & draw conclusions
    on an individual basis. :-)

    My oh my. I knew you would have fun with this thought
    teaser of Alexander's. ;)


    Yes, I did. Alexander asks good questions. But IMHO the input from
    other readers is important too. I can have fun playing with the grammar all by
    myself, but I do my best work when folks like you add their own ideas.... :-))




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)