• rules of this echo

    From Dmitry Chernykh@2:5020/2141.701 to All on Sun Dec 2 10:04:15 2018
    Hello, All.
    Where I can find a rules of this echo?
    ...

    --
    Best regards!
    Dmitry Chernykh
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:5020/2141.701)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/2140.91 to Dmitry Chernykh on Sun Dec 2 12:18:30 2018
    Hi, Dmitry!

    Hello, All.
    Where I can find a rules of this echo?
    ...

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)


    Best regards - alexander
    --- ---------------------------------------
    * Origin: Cool&Hot (2:5020/2140.91)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Dmitry Chernykh on Sun Dec 2 20:04:13 2018
    Hi! Dmitry,

    On 02 Dec 18 12:18, alexander koryagin wrote to you:

    Hello, All.
    Where I can find a rules of this echo?
    ...

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)

    Rule #2 - make a mistake and someone will help you. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    ... Oh! I get it! HAhahahaha...haha...
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to alexander koryagin on Sun Dec 2 17:31:24 2018
    On 2018 Dec 02 12:18:30, you wrote to Dmitry Chernykh:

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)

    if you are a sober[...] ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... It is in his own interest that the cat purrs. -Irish Proverb
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dmitry Chernykh@2:5020/2141.701 to alexander koryagin on Mon Dec 3 05:51:09 2018
    Hello, alexander koryagin.
    On 02.12.18 12:18 you wrote:

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)

    So, if I'm not drunk and in the minds, I can talk about everything here?


    --
    Best regards!
    Dmitry Chernykh
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:5020/2141.701)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Dmitry Chernykh on Sun Dec 2 21:46:02 2018
    Hi & welcome, Dmitry! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

    Where I can find a rules of this echo?


    While I have a copy of the official rules, I think the explanation
    offered by Alexander & Paul will do nicely. In my experience the sort of folks
    who ask questions like that never cause any trouble here.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Dmitry Chernykh on Mon Dec 3 12:07:54 2018
    Hi, Dmitry Chernykh : Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 03.12.2018 06:51

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)
    So, if I'm not drunk and in the minds, I can talk about everything
    here?

    Well, once I have found the most stupid question asked on Earth -- to ask a drunken man why he had sat behind the wheel drunken. ;=)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to mark lewis on Mon Dec 3 12:10:22 2018
    Hi, Mark Lewis!
    I read your message from 03.12.2018 01:31

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)
    if you are a sober[...] ;)

    I feel my ears hot. ;-)

    Bye, Mark!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Dmitry Chernykh on Mon Dec 3 04:35:15 2018
    Hi Dmitry -- on Dec 03 2018 at 05:51, you wrote:

    So, if I'm not drunk and in the minds, I can talk about everything
    here?


    Essentially, yes - but the main purpose of the echo is to learn and/or improve our use of English, so anything you write is subject to being corrected or commented on from a grammatical point of view.

    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to alexander koryagin on Mon Dec 3 16:51:08 2018
    alexander koryagin to Dmitry Chernykh:

    Where I can find a rules of this echo?

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main
    rule. ;-)

    Yes. This echo is run by the Temperance movement.

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Dec 3 16:23:05 2018
    Re: rules of this echo
    By: Alexander Koryagin to mark lewis on Mon Dec 03 2018 12:10:22

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)
    if you are a sober[...] ;)

    I feel my ears hot. ;-)

    i was playing off of paul's comment about posting and someone would help... it worked out perfectly, too -=B-)



    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Paul Quinn on Tue Dec 4 21:52:53 2018
    Re: rules of this echo
    By: Paul Quinn to Dmitry Chernykh on Sun Dec 02 2018 08:04 pm

    Hi! Dmitry,

    On 02 Dec 18 12:18, alexander koryagin wrote to you:

    Hello, All.
    Where I can find a rules of this echo?
    ...

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)

    Rule #2 - make a mistake and someone will help you. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    Rule #3, if not sober, try to hide it (grin)
    xxcarol

    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: Shenk's Express, shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384.125 to Carol Shenkenberger on Wed Dec 5 16:10:53 2018
    Hi! xxCarol,

    On 12/05/2018 12:52 PM, you wrote:

    Where I can find a rules of this echo?
    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)

    Rule #2 - make a mistake and someone will help you. ;-)

    Rule #3, if not sober, try to hide it (grin)

    Oh look! Another ex-spurt! ;)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: "Oops!" --unknown (just before the Big Bang) (3:640/1384.125)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to mark lewis on Wed Dec 5 08:31:38 2018
    Hi, Mark Lewis : Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 04.12.2018 00:23


    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the main rule. ;-)
    if you are a sober[...] ;)
    I feel my ears hot. ;-)

    i was playing off of paul's comment about posting and someone would help... it worked out perfectly, too - =B-)

    It is great to be corrected. If somebody studies English and there are people who correct you (at least two errors per message, F2EP! :)) -- it is a great opportunity for any student. English_tutor is a great area to learn English. Usually, people should pay money for such an opportunity. ;-)

    Bye, Mark!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Paul Quinn on Wed Dec 5 18:50:40 2018
    Re: rules of this echo
    By: Paul Quinn to Carol Shenkenberger on Wed Dec 05 2018 04:10 pm

    Rule #3, if not sober, try to hide it (grin)

    Oh look! Another ex-spurt! ;)

    Snicker!

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: Shenk's Express, shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Dec 9 00:22:37 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Well, once I have found the most stupid question asked
    on Earth -- to ask a drunken man why he had sat behind
    the wheel drunken. ;=)

    That reminds me of an opposite occasion: an ingenious
    question from a drunk man to a sober. It happened in the
    cusp season when late autumn yields to early winter and the
    weather is damp, cold, murky, and depressing because there
    is no snow yet to amend the early darkness, the barren trees
    and bushes, and the general greyness of the world. It is in
    such mean weather that my father and his friend were
    standing at a bus stop and shivering in the cold when a
    drunk bedraggled man, probably a bum, accosted them in this
    respectful manner: "O fathers!", said he, "what is the
    time?", to which one them said it was eight. "Fathers!",
    said the bedraggled man after a pause, "it is in the morning
    or in the evening?"

    --- Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32)
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Sun Dec 9 21:04:56 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 09.12.2018 01:22

    Well, once I have found the most stupid question asked on Earth --
    to ask a drunken man why he had sat behind the wheel drunken. ;=)

    That reminds me of an opposite occasion: an ingenious question from
    a drunk man to a sober. It happened in the cusp season when late
    autumn yields to early winter and the weather is damp, cold, murky,

    I heard in this context about "we are on the cusp of winter season". Not sure about "cusp season".

    and depressing because there is no snow yet to amend the early
    darkness, the barren trees and bushes, and the general greyness of
    the world. It is in such mean weather that my father and his friend
    were standing at a bus stop and shivering in the cold when a drunk bedraggled man, probably a bum, accosted them in this respectful
    manner: "O fathers!", said he, "what is the time?", to which one
    them said it was eight. "Fathers!", said the bedraggled man after a
    pause, "it is in the morning or in the evening?"

    In Russia we also know a famous story about a drunk man who mistakenly got to Leningrad instead of Moscow by plane, then he got on the taxi to the equally named street, the same block of flats number, and the same flat. There he found
    a girl and they fell in love after a funny mess. And every year, on the New Year eve, Russians love to watch the screen version of this story on TV. ;=)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Dec 10 23:40:13 2018
    Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to alexander koryagin:

    If you a sober person you are welcomed. It is the
    main rule. ;-)

    Yes. This echo is run by the Temperance movement.


    Oh, good grief....

    Charles M. Schulz




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to alexander koryagin on Wed Dec 12 14:52:24 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    If you a sober person you are welcomed.

    Whereas the misisng "are" is probably a blunder I believe
    the adjective "welcome" works better in your sentence than
    the verb or varbal adjective "welcomed".

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Thu Dec 13 13:16:44 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 12.12.2018 15:52

    If you a sober person you are welcomed.

    Whereas the misisng "are" is probably a blunder I believe the
    adjective "welcome" works better in your sentence than the verb or
    varbal adjective "welcomed".

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the difference between

    "you are welcomed" and "you are welcome"?
    ;)

    PS: "verbal", missing

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Thu Dec 13 14:12:00 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the
    difference between "you are welcomed" and "you are
    welcome"?

    The one relates the actual action of welcoming and the other
    a potential readiness thereto. Compare the following
    sentences:

    You are welcomed in my house.
    You are welcome in my house.

    The first implies that you come regularly and are received
    well, and the second indicates the condition that if you
    come, you shall be welcome. Its truth value does not depend
    on whether you come or not.

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Fri Dec 14 10:40:44 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 13.12.2018 15:12

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the difference
    between "you are welcomed" and "you are welcome"?

    The one relates the actual action of welcoming and the other a
    potential readiness thereto. Compare the following sentences:

    === "The first one relates to..."
    === and the other is a potential readiness...

    You are welcomed in my house.
    You are welcome in my house.

    The first implies that you come regularly and are received well,
    and the second indicates the condition that if you come, you shall
    be welcome. Its truth value does not depend on whether you come or
    not.

    I also collected some information on this issue. "Welcome" can belong to three parts of speech:

    The verb "to welcome" IMHO is close to "to greet".
    I greeted/welcomed him warmly.

    The noun "welcome" is close to "greeting"
    I gave him a warm welcome.

    The adjective "welcome" is actually a _property_ of a person. As "ugly" is the property of an ugly man. As an adjective "welcome" means that a person (who is welcome) is an embodiment of greeting. ;-)
    IMHO, "You are welcomed" is legal, means the same, but more formal.


    Look at this article, for instance:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    The Grammarphobia Blog
    Welcome advice
    SEPTEMBER 7TH, 2008
    Q: If one says "Your thoughts are welcomed," why does one respond to "Thank you" with "You're welcome," not "You're welcomed"?

    A: In the sentences "Your thoughts are welcomed" and "You're welcome," the word
    "welcome" is being used in two different ways, as a verb in the first one and as an adjective in the second.

    As a verb, "welcome" means to greet cordially or accept with pleasure. You might ask your doctor, for instance, "Do you welcome new patients," and she might reply, "Yes, I welcome them" or "Yes, new patients are welcomed."

    Similarly, when you say, "Your thoughts are welcomed," you're using "welcome" as a verb (a past participle in this case).

    On the other hand, in sentences like "I felt welcome" or "He's welcome to visit" or "The rain was welcome" or "She gave welcome advice," the word is an adjective meaning received gladly or giving pleasure.

    It's this adjectival sense that we use when we say "You're welcome" in reply to
    "Thank you."

    Dictionaries don't usually define the adjective "welcome" in this idiomatic usage. The Oxford English Dictionary, for example, describes "You're welcome" simply as "a polite formula used in response to an expression of thanks."

    https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/09/welcome-advice.html
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Fri Dec 14 15:35:32 2018
    Alexander Koryagin to Anton Shepelev:

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the
    difference between "you are welcomed" and "you are
    welcome"?

    The one relates the actual action of welcoming and the
    other a potential readiness thereto. Compare the
    following sentences:

    === "The first one relates to..." === and the other is
    a potential readiness...

    Even though my sentence may be ungrammatical, I disagree
    with your corrections. I did mean the transitive form of
    "relate", and elided it in the second clause, cf. Roger
    Bacon's "Reading maketh a full man, conference a ready man,
    and writing an exact man."

    I also collected some information on this issue.
    [...]
    The adjective "welcome" is actually a _property_ of a
    person.

    On the contrary, it denotes the attude of another party
    toward that person.

    As an adjective "welcome" means that a person (who is
    welcome) is an embodiment of greeting. ;-)
    Not necessarily.
    IMHO, "You are welcomed" is legal, means the same, but
    more formal.

    Certainly not. It means somebody has welcomed me,
    regardless of my amiability.

    Look at this article, for instance:

    In the sentences "Your thoughts are welcomed" and
    "You're welcome," the word "welcome" is being used in
    two different ways, as a verb in the first one and as an
    adjective in the second.

    As a verb, "welcome" means to greet cordially or accept
    with pleasure. You might ask your doctor, for instance,
    "Do you welcome new patients," and she might reply,
    "Yes, I welcome them" or "Yes, new patients are
    welcomed."

    Correct, but not the same as "New patiens are welcome"!

    Similarly, when you say, "Your thoughts are welcomed,"
    you're using "welcome" as a verb (a past participle in
    this case). On the other hand, in sentences like

    such as

    "I felt welcome" or "He's welcome to visit" or "The rain
    was welcome" or "She gave welcome advice," the word is
    an adjective meaning received gladly or giving pleasure.

    The meaning of "welcome" in the first sentence is different.
    It *promises* a welcome in case that person should visit the
    speaker.

    It's this adjectival sense that we use when we say
    "You're welcome" in reply to "Thank you."

    Indeed, and "welcomed" would be rather awkward!

    Dictionaries don't usually define the adjective
    "welcome" in this idiomatic usage. The Oxford English
    Dictionary, for example, describes "You're welcome"
    simply as "a polite formula used in response to an
    expression of thanks."

    Another good alternative interpretation of this "welcome",
    because "come" is also the perfect aspect of "to come".

    P.S.: Your English seems is improving :-)

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Fri Dec 14 15:44:14 2018
    I wrote to Alexander Koryagin:

    P.S.: Your English seems is improving :-)

    seems (to be) improving.

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alexander Koryagin on Fri Dec 14 18:48:12 2018
    On 2018 Dec 13 13:16:44, you wrote to Anton Shepelev:

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the difference between

    "you are welcomed" and "you are welcome"?
    ;)

    as i understand it, just like seeing one deer or many deer, welcome is also the
    past tense of welcome but then that may depend on context as i remember a book containing a passage similar to "he was welcomed at the gates of the city"... possibly it has to do with noun vs verb vs adjective usage?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+welcome

    maybe the above google dictionary definition helps?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Happy Holidays and a Wonderful 2004 to you and yours!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to mark lewis on Sat Dec 15 10:18:18 2018
    Hi, Mark Lewis!
    I read your message from 15.12.2018 02:48

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the difference
    between

    "you are welcomed" and "you are welcome"?


    as i understand it, just like seeing one deer or many deer, welcome
    is also the past tense of welcome but then that may depend on
    context as i remember a book containing a passage similar to "he
    was welcomed at the gates of the city"... possibly it has to do
    with noun vs verb vs adjective usage?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+welcome

    maybe the above google dictionary definition helps?

    If we consider the adjective I liked the most "welcome == gladly wanted".

    Bye, Mark!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to mark lewis on Sat Dec 15 13:29:26 2018
    Mark Lewis:
    as i understand it, just like seeing one deer or many
    deer, welcome is also the past tense of welcome

    Hardly. The dictionary gives "welcomed" instead of
    "welcame, welcome". It is because in all tenses of
    "welcome" the "come" part remains the past participal of "to
    come" with adjectival meaning. "come" has the same meaning
    in "I am come with peace."

    but then that may depend on context as i remember a book
    containing a passage similar to "he was welcomed at the
    gates of the city"... possibly it has to do with noun vs
    verb vs adjective usage?

    No. When used as a verb, its past tense and past participle
    are always "welcomed".

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Sat Dec 15 13:38:40 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    If we consider the adjective I liked the most "welcome ==
    gladly wanted".

    I diagree. "You are wecome" means that if you come I shall
    be glad to have you as a guest, or, on other words, I should
    be glad to have you as a guest. It does not express a want
    or desire.

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where
    equality is illogically denoted by a double equals sign
    because the single one is, absurdly, reserved for assignment?

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Dec 17 08:20:42 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 14.12.2018 16:35

    BTW, it is a hummer time to ask here where is the difference
    between "you are welcomed" and "you are welcome"?
    The one relates the actual action of welcoming and the other a
    potential readiness thereto. Compare the following sentences:
    === "The first one relates to..." === and the other is
    a potential readiness...

    Even though my sentence may be ungrammatical, I disagree with your corrections. I did mean the transitive form of "relate", and elided
    it in the second clause, cf. Roger Bacon's "Reading maketh a full
    man, conference a ready man, and writing an exact man."

    IMHO, a transitive form of the verb "relate" also demands for "to", only later.
    For instance:

    "The report seeks to relate the rise in crime _to_ an increase in unemployment."
    or
    "He later related the whole story _TO_ me."

    I also collected some information on this issue.
    [...]
    The adjective "welcome" is actually a _property_ of a person.

    On the contrary, it denotes the attude of another party toward that person.

    As an adjective "welcome" means that a person (who is welcome) is
    an embodiment of greeting.
    Not necessarily.
    IMHO, "You are welcomed" is legal, means the same, but more
    formal.

    Certainly not. It means somebody has welcomed me, regardless of my amiability.

    Well, we will wait for someone from other side of the pond. ;-) IMHO, we should
    look into the word itself. Formerly, it consisted of two words: "well" and "come". So, now we see how the past participle "come" forms the ending of word
    "wel(l)come". It is only later people forgot it and began speak "welcomed". "Come" was eaten and became a part of the word.


    <skipped>
    It's this adjectival sense that we use when we say "You're
    welcome" in reply to "Thank you."
    Indeed, and "welcomed" would be rather awkward!

    I don't think that it would something against English. I still believe "You are
    welcomed" and "You are welcome" mean approximately the same.

    Dictionaries don't usually define the adjective "welcome" in this
    idiomatic usage. The Oxford English Dictionary, for example,
    describes "You're welcome" simply as "a polite formula used in
    response to an expression of thanks."
    Another good alternative interpretation of this "welcome",
    because "come" is also the perfect aspect of "to come".

    Looks like I said above, but "come" is not the perfect aspect, but the past participle -- the perfect aspect is the construction like "have come".

    P.S.: Your English seems is improving

    I could also play chess well, but it is easy for me to overlook

    If you use a spellchecker you will be able to improve yours, too. ;-)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Dec 17 08:45:08 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 15.12.2018 14:38

    If we consider the adjective I liked the most "welcome == gladly
    wanted".

    I diagree. "You are wecome" means that if you come I shall be glad
    to have you as a guest, or, on other words, I should be glad to
    have you as a guest. It does not express a want or desire.

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where equality is illogically denoted by a double equals sign because the single one
    is, absurdly, reserved for assignment?

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them vice versa? ;=)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Dec 17 11:06:10 2018
    Alexander Koryagin to Anton Shepelev:

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where
    equality is illogically denoted by a double equals sign
    because the single one is, absurdly, reserved for
    assignment?

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them
    vice versa? ;=)

    Surely not.

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Dec 17 22:22:24 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them
    vice versa? ;=)

    Since the apodosis is in the subjunctive ("would" is the
    past tense of "will"), the protais must be in the past tense
    ("used").

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Dec 17 20:56:02 2018
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Anton Shepelev:

    It happened in the cusp season when late autumn yields
    to early winter and the weather is damp, cold, murky,

    I heard in this context about "we are on the cusp of
    winter season". Not sure about "cusp season".


    I'm not sure whether you're asking about the grammar or the meaning ... but "the cusp season" is correct AFAIK. Alternatively, I would say "on the
    cusp of the winter season" or "on the cusp of winter".

    In North America folks say "on the cusp" meaning at or near a point
    which marks a change... typically from one astrological sun sign to another. I
    hadn't heard the word used with reference to the winter solstice before, but it
    makes sense to me. As we speak the weather in Vancouver is very much like what
    Anton describes... and I expect +/- 16 hours of darkness on December 21st while
    Moscow is even further north. Under the circumstances I can see why a homeless
    person who has recently awakened might enquire whether it's 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM.

    I've always found it strange that December 21st is generally listed
    on our calendars etc. as the beginning of winter... while (depending on who you
    ask) June 21st may be "midsummer day" or the official beginning of summer. The
    earth does take awhile to warm up or cool down as the sun's rays get to us more
    or less directly. But for many people around these parts, what matters is when
    they take their long johns, snow boots, and woolly mittens out of storage. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Dec 18 08:52:56 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev : Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 17.12.2018 12:06

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where equality is
    illogically denoted by a double equals sign because the single
    one is, absurdly, reserved for assignment?
    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them vice
    versa? ;=)

    Surely not.


    Actually C++ has a big two symbols operator group: ==, !=, +=, &=, ^=, |= etc

    We can write:

    If(a == b && b!= c) a = c;
    ;)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Tue Dec 18 10:55:08 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Actually C++ has a big two symbols operator group: ==,
    !=, +=, &=, ^=, |= etc

    We can write:

    If(a == b && b!= c) a = c;

    It plain C.

    But the equality and assignment confusion is easily amended
    with the mathematical assignment operator := that is also
    beautifully parallel with the compund operators:

    a := b;
    a += b;
    a *= b;

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Dec 18 12:04:02 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 18.12.2018 11:55

    Actually C++ has a big two symbols operator group: ==,!=, +=, &=,
    ^=, |= etc We can write:
    If(a == b && b!= c) a = c;

    It plain C.

    C has already died. It is too obsolete to be in use. C++ has replaced it.

    But the equality and assignment confusion is easily amended with
    the mathematical assignment operator: = that is also beautifully
    parallel with the compund operators:

    a := b;
    a += b;
    a *= b;

    The matter IMHO is that the assignment operator "=" is the most frequent operator in C++. So it is was a sound idea to make it so short.
    Besides, ":=b" looks like a fidonet smiley with the tongue out of the mouth. :=b

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Dec 18 12:10:34 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 17.12.2018 23:22


    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them vice
    versa? ;=)

    Since the apodosis is in the subjunctive ("would" is the past tense
    of "will"), the protais must be in the past tense ("used").

    Hey, Ardith! ;-) After "if" I used a simple future time -- why not? I don't want to use the subjunctive mood in both clauses.

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Dec 18 10:22:46 2018
    On 2018 Dec 15 13:38:40, you wrote to Alexander Koryagin:

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where equality is illogically denoted by a double equals sign because the single one is, absurdly, reserved for assignment?

    don't forget the one(s) with '===' and '====' :lol:

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Foods labeled "high fiber" now labeled as "tastes like cardboard"
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to mark lewis on Tue Dec 18 22:49:14 2018
    )(ark Lewis to Anton Shepelev:

    Are you a programmer in one of those languages where
    equality is illogically denoted by a double equals sign
    because the single one is, absurdly, reserved for
    assignment?

    don't forget the one(s) with '===' and '====' :lol:

    I know about `==='. My friend calls it "honest-to-God-
    equals".

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Dec 19 00:16:56 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    C has already died.

    The rumours of its death are greatly exagerrated. It is one
    of the most used languages with nary an alternative for
    embedded systems. Some major PC projects are developed in
    C: GIMP, DarkTable, Git, NetPBM (for which I have written
    several tools).

    It is too obsolete to be in use.

    Why? Although Modula and Pascal are much better languages,
    they are not nearly as popular...

    C++ has replaced it.

    C++ cannot replace C because it is a totally different
    language with an opposite ideology. C is a small, simple
    and minimalistic procedural language, whereas C++ is a huge,
    heavy and bloated object-oriented and multi-paradigm
    monster.

    The matter IMHO is that the assignment operator "=" is
    the most frequent operator in C++.

    Seems true.

    So it is was a sound idea to make it so short.

    I think that disciplied programmers have long ago agreed
    that readability is preferable to the utter paranoid
    brevity, so that the atoi() function would be better named
    as strtoint(), for example. Code is read much more
    frequently than it is modified, and modification itself
    requires extensive reading.

    Besides, ":=b" looks like a fidonet smiley with the
    tongue out of the mouth. :=b

    Do not cramp the operator and operands together, use
    whitespace, e.g.: a := b;

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Dec 19 00:40:40 2018
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them
    vice versa? ;=)

    Hey, Ardith! ;-) After "if" I used a simple future time
    -- why not? I don't want to use the subjunctive mood in
    both clauses.

    Start with the standard simple classification of
    conditionals into three categories:

    I. He will find me if he knows how.
    II. He would find me if he knew how.
    III. He would have found me if he had known how.

    Then learn the various "mixed" forms. You can't mix them in
    whatsoever way it likes you, but must follow the logic of
    the tenses. I highly recommend Baskerville and Sewell's
    short and clear explanation:

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14006/14006-h/14006-h.htm#Page_139

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Wed Dec 19 09:02:30 2018
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 19.12.2018 01:16

    C has already died.
    The rumours of its death are greatly exagerrated. It is one of the
    most used languages with nary an alternative for embedded systems.
    Some major PC projects are developed in C: GIMP, DarkTable, Git,
    NetPBM (for which I have written several tools).

    Probably these products were born long and long ago.

    It is too obsolete to be in use.
    Why? Although Modula and Pascal are much better languages, they are
    not nearly as popular...

    C++ is not a language for common people. It a language for writing big quick, complex systems. In this area C is ten times closer to vulgar Basic than to C++.

    C++ has replaced it.

    C++ cannot replace C because it is a totally different language
    with an opposite ideology. C is a small, simple and minimalistic procedural language, whereas C++ is a huge, heavy and bloated object-oriented and multi-paradigm monster.

    C is just an ancient programming language and now nobody, in a sober mind, will
    make programs using it. Because it is just a bad form. C is used by two reasons: you program a small controller and there is no C++ compiler available.
    The second reason is when you are very old, you have a big ancient working system, written in C, and there is no reason to touch it. The main reason for such tired people is "don't touch it if it works" ;=)

    C++ is a bright, logical continuation of C, developed by the best minds of the world of the system programming. C++ incorporates novelties that allow you to make much more complex, powerful and reliable programs than the ones written in
    C. I repeat, that if a programmer has a choice he will never trade C++ for C. It is nonsense.

    The matter IMHO is that the assignment operator "=" is the most
    frequent operator in C++.
    Seems true.
    So it is was a sound idea to make it so short.

    I think that disciplied programmers have long ago agreed that
    readability is preferable to the utter paranoid brevity, so that
    the atoi() function would be better named as strtoint(), for
    example.

    It is a question what is more clear: "atoi" or StrToInt. IMHO, the second variant is more clear. Besides, C++ has many other elegant methods for similar tasks. For instance, you can make "=" operator for any data type you use.

    Code is read much more frequently than it is modified, and
    modification itself requires extensive reading.
    Besides, ": =b" looks like a fidonet smiley with the tongue out of
    the mouth.: =b

    Do not cramp the operator and operands together, use whitespace,
    e.g.: a: = b;

    Well, between a mouth and nose there is some space, indeed. := }

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2018

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Anton Shepelev on Wed Dec 19 23:32:20 2018
    Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them
    vice versa? ;=)


    Since the apodosis is in the subjunctive
    |AKA the main clause or consequent clause
    of a conditional sentence

    ("would" is the past tense of "will"),

    the protais must be in the past tense ("used").
    |protasis
    |AKA the subordinate clause or clause expressing
    the condition in a conditional sentence


    I've added notes for the benefit of readers who are unfamiliar with the terminology used in the 19th century.

    Another example: "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Sat Dec 22 11:14:47 2018
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Anton Shepelev:

    Do you think it would be more logical if we use them vice
    versa? ;=)

    Since the apodosis is in the subjunctive ("would" is the
    past tense of "will"), the protais must be in the past
    tense ("used").

    Hey, Ardith! ;-) After "if" I used a simple future time
    -- why not? I don't want to use the subjunctive mood in
    both clauses.


    FOWLER'S MODERN ENGLISH USAGE, of which I have the 1998 edition, says
    the subjunctive mood is "most likely to be used in formal writing or speech"...
    then goes on to say it's used after various conjunctions (including "if"). The
    author concludes by adding that it's "seldom obligatory".

    My idea of logic in this regard is to choose either the indicative or
    the subjunctive mood, depending on the situation, and stick with it. People do
    use both within the same sentence as you did at times, but I wouldn't recommend
    it. Other sources agree with Anton that the subjunctive "would" is effectively
    in the past tense & that having decided to use it in the main clause you should
    follow through in your subordinate clause. The wording of questions in English
    is complicated enough for those who aren't native speakers of the language, and
    while I've always encouraged my students to take a chance on structures they're
    unfamiliar with there are various ways of saying what you want to say if you're
    not happy about using the subjunctive mood twice within the same sentence. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Anatoliy Kovalenko@2:5020/1042.46 to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Jan 1 11:48:11 2019
    Hello Carol!
    04.12.2018 21:52:53, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Paul Quinn:


    Rule #3, if not sober, try to hide it (grin)

    Rule #4, if you can't hide it and have hurt anyone with your words, explain him/her that your words were misunderstood because of your bad knowledge or English :)

    Happy New Year, by the way!


    Bye, Anatoliy.
    --- FTNed 2001 Build 0058-RC6/Windows NT 6.1
    * Origin: http://www.acritum.com (2:5020/1042.46)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Anatoliy Kovalenko on Thu Jan 17 23:56:03 2019
    Welcome back, Anatoliy! Recently you wrote in a message to Carol Shenkenberger:

    Rule #3, if not sober, try to hide it (grin)

    Rule #4, if you can't hide it and have hurt anyone with
    your words, explain him/her that your words were
    misunderstood because of your bad knowledge or English :)

    Happy New Year, by the way!


    Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
    and never brought to mind?

    ... we'll take a cup o' kindness yet
    for auld lang syne.


    These words, traditionally sung just before midnight on New Year's Eve, are from a Scottish folk song which Robbie Burns apparently wrote out in 1788 & sent to the Scots Musical Museum.

    Fun factoid: Literally "auld lang syne" = "old long since"... but this part is often interpreted more freely as "(for) old times' sake".

    With an "auld acquaintance" from E_T posting on New Year's Day for the first time in quite awhile, I can't resist proposing a toast to Anatoliy. For those who want to research the words in more detail, however, I must warn you that a "pint" is half a quart... not half a gallon, as one source claims.

    Anyway, Happy New Year to you too.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)