• "the" o "a"

    From alexander koryagin@3:640/384 to All on Fri Mar 30 21:21:29 2018
    Hi, All!

    -----Beginning of the citation----- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/world/europe/russia-expels-diplomats.html


    MOSCOW — Russia on Thursday escalated _a confrontation_ with Europe and the United States over the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain, saying it would expel 60 American diplomats and an unspecified number of envoys from other countries to retaliate for a mass expulsion of Russian diplomats working in the West and beyond that was ordered this week.
    <skipped>
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    If we escalate something we already know what it is. We have the confrontation over the poisoning of a former spy. So, why "Russia on Thursday escalated a confrontation...."

    Why "_a_ confrontation" not "the confrontation"?

    Bye, All!

    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to alexander koryagin on Fri Mar 30 15:08:57 2018
    Hi alexander -- on Mar 30 2018 at 21:21, you wrote:

    -----Beginning of the citation----- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/world/europe/russia-expels-diplom ats.html

    [...]

    Why "_a_ confrontation" not "the confrontation"?

    Firstly, this is (again) garbage writing. You can't escalate a confrontation; a
    confrontation either is or is not. Same thing with "reached a crescendo" (a phrase I often see). A crescendo is an increase in volume over time and yes you
    can reach the beginning of a crescendo in music, but as the journalists (hack, spit) use it they seem to think a crescendo is a peak; a point in time.

    This type of abysmal writing is a hot button of mine, and I'm going to suggest that all here should be extremely careful of using journalistic writing for any
    sort of exemplar of correct usage. Nine times out of ten such writing is crap.

    To answer your specific question, Alexander, using "a" suggests that this is one of many confrontations while using "the" tends to suggest there's only one.
    It's not a strong argument, and really either could be used.



    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From alexander koryagin@3:640/384 to Dallas Hinton on Sat Mar 31 23:28:35 2018
    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 30.03.2018 08:08


    Why "_a_ confrontation" not "the confrontation"?

    Firstly, this is (again) garbage writing. You can't escalate a confrontation; a confrontation either is or is not. Same thing
    with "reached a crescendo" (a phrase I often see). A crescendo is
    an increase in volume over time and yes you can reach the beginning
    of a crescendo in music, but as the journalists (hack, spit) use it
    they seem to think a crescendo is a peak; a point in time.

    I guess that it is the way how words change their meaning or get additional ones. People who know the word poorly may use it in their own way. If such people are heard by many the new meaning begins to live its own life. And the dictionary has no choice but to add the new entry.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crescendo

    From another side: can we make the confrontation stronger? If it can become stronger we can escalate it, as we can escalate any crisis.

    This type of abysmal writing is a hot button of mine, and I'm going
    to suggest that all here should be extremely careful of using
    journalistic writing for any sort of exemplar of correct usage.
    Nine times out of ten such writing is crap.

    I should read more good books. ;-)

    Bye, Dallas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    ENGLISH_TUTOR 2018

    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to alexander koryagin on Sat Mar 31 16:16:50 2018
    Hi alexander -- on Mar 31 2018 at 23:28, you wrote:


    I guess that it is the way how words change their meaning or get
    additional ones. People who know the word poorly may use it in their
    own way. If such people are heard by many the new meaning begins to
    live its own life. And the dictionary has no choice but to add the
    new entry.

    Actually, I disagree. A dictionary may choose between being prescriptive or descriptive. It would appear that most are choosing to be descriptive, but I (and quite a few others) disagree with that decision and tend to choose our dictionaries on that basis.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crescendo

    The first definition they give is completely correct. The second, however, is a
    misuse which they themselves recognize by adding the word "climax" (which IS the correct work).

    From another side: can we make the confrontation stronger? If it can
    become stronger we can escalate it, as we can escalate any crisis.

    Here again, MW gives 2 definitions; the first is correct and cannot be escalated (a face to face meeting just is!) and the second definition again is a misuse as they indicate by adding "Conflict" to the definition (which CAN be escalated).

    I should read more good books. ;-)

    I would hesitate to say "more", since I don't know how many you read now, but certainly "good" would be, um, good. :-)


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Fri Apr 6 19:58:28 2018
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Dallas Hinton:

    A crescendo is an increase in volume over time and
    yes you can reach the beginning of a crescendo in
    music, but as the journalists (hack, spit) use it
    they seem to think a crescendo is a peak; a point
    in time.

    I guess that it is the way how words change their
    meaning or get additional ones. People who know the
    word poorly may use it in their own way. If such
    people are heard by many the new meaning begins to
    live its own life.


    Unfortunately, yes....



    And the dictionary has no choice but to add the
    new entry.


    As Dallas says, most English/English dictionaries nowadays add such
    entries. Another example from music is "classical", which we both recognize as
    a particular style dating from about 1750-1800 but many others don't. There is
    also the word "argument" from English class, and (as you've seen elsewhere) the
    geographical name "Holland". In the "real world" I must understand what others
    mean, even if I wouldn't put it that way myself... and there's where I may want
    the dictionary to help me out. I realize the English language has changed over
    time & will continue to do so, but I see much of its power & beauty being lost.



    From another side: can we make the confrontation
    stronger? If it can become stronger we can escalate
    it, as we can escalate any crisis.


    As I see it the noun "confrontation" is derived from the verb "[to]
    confront", which means to face up to & deal with a problem. How people do that
    varies widely. But when I compare dictionaries I see e.g. "face with hostility
    or violence" entering the list of definitions for the verb & creeping closer to
    the top. One must always remember that it's not in the best interests of those
    who sell "news" to fight such trends if the audience wants to assume the worst.

    The word "crisis" has undergone similar changes. The meaning which
    comes initially to my mind... the turning point in a novel or in a fever... has
    apparently been outranked nowadays as more general definitions like "a state of
    danger" have moved to the top of the list. If you look at it that way, I guess
    you could speak of an escalation. IMHO "escalation of conflict" is simpler and
    has already withstood the test of time. But there again you may see words such
    as "fight", "hostilities", and "struggle" used to explain "conflict". While it
    isn't necessarily dramatic, I reckon that's what sticks in many people's minds.



    I should read more good books. ;-)


    When you quoted an excerpt from IVANHOE, I thought the language was
    wonderful... that was what inspired me to read the book for myself. But it's a
    rip-roaring good adventure story too, for those who want lots of action.

    I look forward to seeing more citations like that... [chuckle].




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From alexander koryagin@3:640/384 to Ardith Hinton on Tue Apr 10 17:16:42 2018
    Hi, Ardith Hinton!
    I read your message from 06.04.2018 12:58
    about "the" o "a".


    I guess that it is the way how words change their meaning or get
    additional ones. People who know the word poorly may use it in
    their own way. If such people are heard by many the new meaning
    begins to live its own life.
    Unfortunately, yes....

    And the dictionary has no choice but to add the new entry.
    As Dallas says, most English/English dictionaries nowadays add such entries. Another example from music is "classical", which we both recognize as a particular style dating from about 1750-1800 but
    many others don't. There is also the word "argument" from English
    class, and (as you've seen elsewhere) the geographical
    name "Holland". In the "real world" I must understand what others
    mean, even if I wouldn't put it that way myself... and there's
    where I may want the dictionary to help me out. I realize the
    English language has changed over time & will continue to do so,
    but I see much of its power & beauty being lost.

    But speaking objectively English always has been like it.

    From another side: can we make the confrontation stronger? If it
    can become stronger we can escalate it, as we can escalate any
    crisis.

    As I see it the noun "confrontation" is derived from the verb "[to] confront", which means to face up to & deal with a problem. How
    people do that varies widely. But when I compare dictionaries I see
    e.g. "face with hostility or violence" entering the list of
    definitions for the verb & creeping closer to the top. One must
    always remember that it's not in the best interests of those who
    sell "news" to fight such trends if the audience wants to assume
    the worst.

    Although "con" means the negative position: "an appraisal of the pros and cons". "Front" means a border. So, maybe. we can think of a negative opposition.

    <skipped>
    I should read more good books. ;-)

    When you quoted an excerpt from IVANHOE, I thought the language was wonderful... that was what inspired me to read the book for myself.
    But it's a rip-roaring good adventure story too, for those who want
    lots of action.

    Yes. a rare, nice book. Another book I like as much is the trilogy of Captain Blood adventures, by Rafael Sabatini.

    I look forward to seeing more citations like that... [chuckle].

    Well, it is in case if I continue reading bad paper articles. :)

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander KoryaginENGLISH_TUTOR 2018

    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)