• Limericks

    From Dallas Hinton@1:153/715 to All on Sat Feb 17 15:07:02 2018
    Hi All!

    Limericks are a way we play with language. Here's a musical one for you:

    A tutor who tooted the flute
    Tried to tutor two tooters to flute
    Said the two to the tutor
    "Is it tougher to too
    Or to tutor two tooters to toot?"

    The absence of punctuation is typical of limericks, by the way.


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, CANADA [telnet: bandmaster.tzo.com] (1:153/715)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Dallas Hinton on Sun Feb 18 00:26:32 2018
    Hi, Dallas! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

    Limericks


    Named after a town in the Republic of Ireland, apparently.... :-)



    are a way we play with language. Here's a musical one
    for you:

    A tutor who tooted the flute
    Tried to tutor two tooters to flute
    Said the two to the tutor
    "Is it tougher to too
    Or to tutor two tooters to toot?"


    Hmm. I wonder who else will spot the typo? :-))



    The absence of punctuation is typical of limericks, by
    the way.


    Uh-huh. I reckon they're generally passed on by word of mouth for awhile before somebody gets around to writing them down... by which time the identity of the original authors has been forgotten & we can't consult these folks as to whether they'd have used a period, a colon, a semicolon, a comma fault, or no punctuation at all in certain places. It's like looking up the words of a song when many others are reporting what they thought they heard. The usual copout nowadays is to assume a pause at the end of each line. ;-)


    Here's another I heard as as child:

    A flea and a fly in a flue
    Were imprisoned -- so what could they do?
    Said the flea, "Let us fly!
    Said the fly, "Let us flee!"
    And they flew through a hole in the flue.




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/715 to Ardith Hinton on Sun Feb 18 15:43:14 2018
    Hi Ardith -- on Feb 18 2013 at 00:26, you wrote:

    Hmm. I wonder who else will spot the typo? :-))

    Oops <blush>

    A flea and a fly in a flue
    Were imprisoned -- so what could they do?
    Said the flea, "Let us fly!
    Said the fly, "Let us flee!"
    And they flew through a hole in the flue.

    I learned it as "And they flew through a flaw in the flue."



    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, CANADA [telnet: bandmaster.tzo.com] (1:153/715)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Dallas Hinton on Mon Feb 19 23:40:54 2018
    Hi, Dallas! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    A flea and a fly in a flue
    Were imprisoned -- so what could they do?
    Said the flea, "Let us fly!
    Said the fly, "Let us flee!"
    And they flew through a hole in the flue.

    I learned it as "And they flew through a flaw
    in the flue."


    Ah. I like your version better.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Roy Witt on Mon Feb 19 23:42:56 2018
    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    A tutor who tooted the flute
    Tried to tutor two tooters to flute
    Said the two to the tutor
    "Is it tougher to too
    Or to tutor two tooters to toot?"

    Hmm. I wonder who else will spot the typo? :-))

    I noticed right away. The typo breaks up the flow
    of the 'limerick' too much.


    I'm not sure whether you were thinking of the same item I was, but I imagine you wanted to give our friends in Russia time to respond... as I did ... before identifying the item specifically. :-)

    Dallas copied a written version he'd found elsewhere. The version I remember has "toot" rather than "flute" at the end of the second line. Okay ... while that would be my preference, I realize there are variations in stuff which is generally passed on by word of mouth. I suspect he left out a letter at the end of the fourth line, however. OTOH I left out a punctuation mark in an example which I probably heard before I'd learned to read... [blush].



    The limericks I learned when I was growing up can't be
    repeated here.


    Uh-huh. Thanks again for your restraint.... :-))




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Roy Witt on Tue Feb 27 14:06:56 2018
    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    [adding analysis of the rhythm]

    - / - - / - - /
    A tutor who tooted the flute

    - - / - - / - - /
    Tried to tutor two tooters to flute

    - - / - - / -
    Said the two to the tutor

    - - / - - /
    "Is it tougher to too(t)

    - - / - - / - - /
    Or to tutor two tooters to toot?"


    I've never seen nor heard the limerick before this,
    so I'm not sure of what is correct.


    Dallas had heard it before... but possibly not quite the same way I heard it or the same way he found it recorded in writing by someone else. The very nature of stuff which has been transmitted orally for generations is that folks from the other side of the tracks (or the other side of the mountains or the other side of the 49th parallel or the other side of the pond) may be used to a slightly different version. The example I cited from memory below varies by only a few words from the one in the GAGE CANADIAN DICTIONARY, published in Toronto. The rhythm is the same & the general idea is the same. I won't lose sleep trying to find the definitive version in such cases because I'm not sure there is one & I don't feel others have to be wrong so I can be right.... ;-)



    I would probably change the limerick to something like;

    "Is it tougher to toot the flute
    Or to tutor two tooters to toot?"


    Hmm... I wouldn't because it breaks the customary rhythmic pattern, although I think "flute" does improve the lame repetition of "toot" at the end of two-three other lines. Few people would consider such folk traditions on a par with Shakespeare's works, e.g. Various sources apparently agree, however, that the "/--" unit or dactylic foot is one of the identifying characteristics of limericks & that it is important to understand how often the pattern may be repeated in which lines. The addition of unstressed syllables here & there... as I see in Dallas's example... is tolerated in various other forms of poetry. In limericks the substitution of xxx for another word which scans the same way is routine. OTOH, if we change too much we no longer have a limerick.... :-)


    Here's another example. It doesn't have the internal rhyme... i.e. the rhyme within a line... which you added to the previous one, but it doesn't really need it because there is more variety WRT the rhyming words:

    - / - - / - - /
    There was a young lady from Lynn

    - / - - / - - /
    Who was so remarkably thin

    - / - - /
    That when she essayed

    - / - - /
    To drink lemonade

    - / - - / - - /
    She slipped through the straw and fell in.



    The best one I ever saw was on a stage with eight young
    ladies nearly nude. They were aligned to represent the
    William Tell Overture with the first, third and fifth
    ladies covering their breasts and the rest facing away
    from the viewer.


    Hang on while I do the math... 00 | 00 | 00 |||. Okay, the cavalry charge. That part is in 2/4 or 4/4 depending on which version you're reading. Others may identify with it as the Lone Ranger theme (giddyup giddyup) or hear "dit dit dah" in code. Either way, not all syllables are created equal there. To me limericks sound like a waltz in 3/4... BOOM chick chick BOOM chick chick THAT'S how it GOES, with each note occupying the same length of time. But I'm inclined to think the presentation was meant to appeal to folks whose learning style is more visual than auditory & who enjoy the frontal view.... [chuckle].




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)