Hi, Paul! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

Christie Golden, "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King":
=========Beginning of the citation==============
...To do so, Illidan would have to kill Tichondrius.
Arthas would be rid of the demon lord, and Illidan
would be rewarded with an artifact to sate his lust
for power. Presumably all had gone according to plan.
=========The end of the citation================

"according to plan" - no article before "plan." Is
there an explanation on this account? Or, maybe,
articles are not very unnecessary after all? ;-)

What's an article again? I've had a sleep since the
last lesson. Hang on... I'll check... back again...
couldn't find it. Mmm...

* Definite article = "the".
* Indefinite article = "a(n)".

Although I didn't look very hard because I felt it might make more sense to spell them out... (literally!)... I couldn't find a definition which would be of much use here. In the traditional eight parts of speech articles are classfied under adjectives, but nowadays some folks prefer to put them in
a separate category. For practical purposes what you need to know is that we have only two articles in English and that native speakers of other languages may have difficulty figuring out where to use articles in English & where not to. The French use articles where we don't. The Russians use them even more sparingly than we do, and the rules are different... or so I understand.

I think we may be dealing with a "stock phrase" or idiom left over from our distant ancestors. As I said to Alexander earlier, articles seem to be noticeable by their absence in medieval English. After putting this reply on the back burner for awhile I came up with some more examples:

-- on occasion, on schedule, on credit, on demand

-- in abeyance, in trouble, in court, in doubt, in luck

-- out of bounds, out of luck

-- as planned, as expected, as needed

-- at sea (or asea), at odds with, at ease, at home


So what on earth does this have to do with "according to plan", you say? Of course. English is your native language. You recognized patterns on your own after hearing countless examples & probably found high school English classes incredibly boring... as I did until I met Miss Langwidge! Meanwhile I suspect many readers from Z2/Z7 know a prepositional phrase when they see one. To this day I don't know a better way to explain such things. If you tuned in late, not to worry. The dictionary is your friend. It will tell you what you need to know when you're not sure what part of speech a certain word is. Some dictionaries also include "usage notes", as my GAGE CANADIAN does. That's one of the reasons I tend to consult it before comparing it to other sources. :-)

How many plans are there? There is only the one plan.
To say 'the plan' would use a superfluous 'the'.

Ah... but why? I've heard families with only one car, for example, refer to it as "the car". Similarly, if we say "the kitchen scissors" or "the pair of reading glasses on my desk" it usually means there is no other item in the household which matches this description.

I agree that "the" is superfluous in Alexander's example above, but I've also seen it omitted occasionally in job titles such as "President & CEO" or "principal of XYZ School" or "chief cook & bottle washer". Perhaps you got the right answer for the wrong reason because you hadn't taken the preposition into account. IMHO your instincts are essentially sound, at any rate.... :-)

It is also Illidan's plan, obviously. (Athough I have
a suspicion you're about to tell me that it is in fact
John Doe's plan in any case, in which case what I have
said isn't obvious. I lose.) So there is no need for
an ownership modifier either.

That's my take on it. Who is Arthas? It seems he wants to get rid of Tichondrius. Maybe he said so indirectly... maybe he came up with the plan himself & Illidan is just following orders. What matters at this point in the story, however, is that Tichondrius now has to fight for his life. The use of a superfluous "the" would slow the action & quite possibly distract the reader who wants to know about such details as whose idea it was at the outset. :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

native speakers of other languages may have difficulty
figuring out where to use articles in English & where
not to. The French use articles where we don't. The
Russians use them even more sparingly than we do, and
the rules are different... or so I understand.

I meant that a countable noun should not be naked,
without a determinator (article or pronoun).

Thanks for explaining what you mean by "determinator". I found it listed under "determinate" and/or "determiner" (being persnickety here in case anyone else wants to look it up)... but as with articles, the concept seems to defy description & the easiest way to get it across is by example. Articles & possessive pronouns are determiners. "This" or "that" may be determiners when we use these words to distinguish between one item & a similar item. A number or a word suggesting an approximation thereof, e.g. "several" or "many", falls into the same category. Seems to me we're dealing with countable objects. In English we specify whose elbow we're touching whether or not it's our own, and ... noting WRT the anniversary of the War of 1812 a translation of the name of a certain cathedral in Russia... English-speaking Christians describe Jesus as "the Savio(u)r" because from their POV he has a special significance.

As to whether a countable noun needs a determiner... yes, I reckon the majority of phrases I offered earlier pertained to uncountable nouns. But I'm reminded that while people say "See you in court!" we have law courts in a city of this size which according to their official title are plural. And I'm reminded too that whereas I'd say So-and-So is in hospital I know at least one individual who would say So-and-So is in *the* hospital. I wasn't planning to mention such complications... but since you asked, she's a high school dropout from a small town where there was probably only one hospital years ago. AFAIC hospitals are countable. In the greater Vancouver area... which included well over a million people when last I heard... we have a number of hospitals. And in this household alone, BTW, we have four types of flour as I speak. What is a countable noun & what isn't? Maybe there's no simple answer after all. ;-)

I found it, it is like an idiomatic phrase:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/plan_1?q=plan
=========Beginning of the citation==============
go according to plan
to happen in the way you intend
Events of this type rarely go according to plan.
=========The end of the citation================

Uh-huh. Just as I thought.... :-)

I other words it is an exception from rules or a legal
error. ;-)

Well, that's one way to put it... [chuckle].

If you read your last sentence again, I think you may find a typo. Now... should one say "rules" or "the rules" in this context? I'm inclined to say "the rules" because I'm thinking of a fairly standard set of "rules" which native speakers of English are taught in the primary grades. In some ways you have an advantage over native speakers because you learned this language after attaining the age of reason. You've probably noticed that the BBC news, e.g., doesn't always conform to what you've been taught. But unlike native speakers you have easy access to charts & diagrams explaining how such things allegedly work for those who seem capable of tackling them on a more grownup level. :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Paul! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

* Definite article = "the".
* Indefinite article = "a(n)".

Thank you.

I don't mean to belittle your effort with such a terse
response. Your advice is very much appreciated.

No problem. I don't assign marks on the basis of how long an essay is or how many words the author used which the average person probably doesn't know. I'm doing this job voluntarily because I love working with students who want to learn, and I'm quite content with a few warm fuzzies now & then. :-))

+ Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

^^^^^ ^^^
Ooh. So, I'm not alone in this. ;-)

Not at all. The name caught my eye when Dallas & I were visiting a seaside town in England... and I cheerfully borrowed it. For those who may be unfamiliar with British addresses: outside the major cities people didn't use house numbers 'way back when. A lot of older houses still don't have numbers, even if the place has since expanded. I can relate after living for awhile in a small community here in BC. All the locals knew where (e.g.) "Mike's Cabin" and "Rosedale Cottage" were. In such situations the name of a house is posted near the front door & printaholic tourists tend to notice it too... [chuckle].




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi alexander -- on Feb 11 2013 at 09:19, you wrote:

things. For instance, when we lived in the USSR we wrote a postal
address on an envelope in this way:

Postal code, City, street, house, apartment, name.

Now some people in Moscow decided to reverse the order. So, when I,
after waiting in a long queue, came up to the postal office window
to send my parcel, I was refused. I was told that I have to print
the address in other, new way.

I've always wondered why we don't write it that way - but here in Canada it's been Name down to Postal code for as long as I can remember (some 65 years now!). It seems very illogical!



Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: The BandMaster, CANADA [telnet: bandmaster.tzo.com] (1:153/715)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

Articles & possessive pronouns are determiners.

Oh, Jesus Christ! Yes, determiners!

Not to worry. Because you're multilingual, I reckoned you were doing what another friend of ours... a native speaker of English... did after living in Paris for a few years & marrying a Frenchman. She said "amplificator" when she meant "amplifier", e.g., using the French ending & pronouncing the word in English. Luckily I knew enough French to grasp the idea & remembered how as a student I forgot Latin & French after studying German all summer... [chuckle].

I heard that "the hospical"

|typo alert!! While "t" is located two rows
distant from "c" on my keyboard, YMMV. :-)

is spoken in American English.

So many interesting topics... and only twenty-four hours in a day! I would still like to clarify the terms "American" & English(wo)man" eventually. For now I'll just add that not everybody realizes certain words have more than one meaning in English. I'll answer to "American" or "English(wo)man" as long as such generalizations are made in the spirit of academic inquiry rather than of competition. WRT the latter, I'm in the enviable position of being able to say "Surely they don't mean me!" or "Either way is correct in Canada...." ;-)

WRT what you were asking about... yes, I have heard "in the hospital" used around these parts (i.e. southwestern Canada). As I pointed out earlier, however, it may not be the best choice unless one wants to identify with folks from back home. In my experience English majors from the big city don't speak that way because circumstances are different there. One can't assume a person is in the hospital closest to where they live or to where xxx occurred.

Another example which just came to mind... let's say a bunch of young men get into a fight outside a beer parlour in downtown Vancouver. We hear on the TV news that the participants are "known to police". We also know it's as likely as not that at least some of these guys reside in the suburbs. In this context "the police" wouldn't work although one or more witnesses may tell you they called the (Vancouver) police. I'm sure the Vancouver Police Department, the Surrey RCMP, etc. share information with one another. But they don't tell nosey reporters exactly which police department knows what about whom.... :-)

Also they use a verb single form with "police" and
have some things like this.

Hmm... depending on the context in which "police" is used, maybe. We don't inflect adjectives the way folks do in some other languages. This means we can, and often do, link nouns together in a series as folks do in German:

oak tree
emergency exit
police officer, police report, police department
fire truck, school bus, sports utility vehicle
computer science teacher
... plus (a tongue twister from my childhood)
rubber baby buggy bumpers
... and (my linguistics instructor's favourite)
cottage cheese salad recipe book
... and comedians Flanders & Swann's
London Transport diesel engine 97 horsepower omnibus.

The average desk dictionary will probably inform you that "police" may be used as a noun or a verb. IOW the authors have fulfilled their duty by identifying the parts of speech correctly. But now you may need to consult a source which goes into more detail about the grammar of the relationships between words. I would suggest you look up "noun adjectives" and/or "modifying nouns". If that doesn't help, I'd like to see some examples of what you have observed.... :-)

If you read your last sentence again, I think you may
find a typo. Now... should one say "rules" or "the
rules" in this context? I'm inclined to say "the rules"
because I'm thinking of a fairly standard set of "rules"
which native speakers of English are taught in the
primary grades.

No doubts, I missed "the."

Uh-huh. While you may feel more comfortable with rules sometimes, my forte is taking others a bit beyond their comfort level & getting them to tell me what they already know on the next level. Give yourself a gold star. :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)