• Can't/Couldn't... 1B.

    From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Paul Quinn on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi again, Paul! This is a continuation of my previous message to you:

    But in this case "can't" can be OK?

    I may need Ardith's assistance with this. Ardith? Help!


    What bothered me at first was the lack of consistency in the choice of
    verb tenses. You & I feel more comfortable if the man says "It *was* the third
    [xxx] I *couldn't* carry", using both verbs in the past tense. Alexander seems
    to be more comfortable with "can't" than with "couldn't", so he tries to remedy
    the problem by suggesting an alternative, "It's the third [xxx] I can't carry."

    Okay. Now the verb tenses agree. But my English-speaking brain still
    isn't quite happy... and neither is yours. I can tell because when you suggest
    another alternative you revert to the past tense, i.e. "I wasn't able". To our
    Russian friends "couldn't" may sound rather tentative or conditional, as indeed
    it is in sentences like "You could try xxx" or "If I won a gazillion dollars in
    the Lotto 6/49 I could visit Paul & Alexander in person". Alexander is writing
    or translating a joke, meaning the delivery can be adapted to his comfort level
    as well as that of his audience. Rewording the sentence a bit more:

    No matter what I do, I can't get a pane of glass home in one piece.
    #@%$!! So much for my third attempt to.... [etc.].
    Once again I have tried & failed to... [etc.].
    I tried three times to... [etc.], but still couldn't manage it.


    Or, considering your own awareness of body language & expanding on the
    possible implications of the "comedy of errors" here:

    So this gal thinks I'm a friendly drunk who wants to give her a big hug??
    A nice polite Canadian would be wearing a t-shirt saying "In your dreams, Lover
    Boy!" or greet me with an icy stare or suddenly find urgent business elsewhere.
    If she doesn't wear glasses in public because she believes they spoil her looks ... maybe she didn't see the position of my hands. If she has experienced some
    difficulty in past relationships with other guys & she's confusing me with them ... or if she's taken a few lessons in self-defense for females & she's anxious
    to test her skill... how am I supposed to know what's doing on in the life of a
    complete stranger??? I must consult another woman, or an ex-cop... [wry grin].




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    Rewording the sentence a bit more:

    No matter what I do, I can't get a pane of glass home in one piece.
    #@%$!! So much for my third attempt to.... [etc.].
    Once again I have tried & failed to... [etc.].
    I tried three times to... [etc.], but still couldn't manage it.

    Here, IMHO it will be relevant to say, that there is both
    written text and spoken stories. In the spoken story there
    is no way of defining quotation marks.


    Canadians often say "Quote... unquote" or gesture double quotation marks with the first two fingers of each hand when they want to emphasize that they're repeating certain words exactly.

    At other times it's obvious from the context when they're quoting.



    there is probably a rule that the direct speech from the
    sentence must be transformed into indirect speech, without
    any quotation marks.


    It can be, but doesn't have to be. For example:

    He says he has tried several times but still can't do xxx.
    He said he had tried several times but still couldn't do xxx.

    The verb tenses here are determined by whether the reporter has already chosen to use the historical present or the past tense to tell the rest of the story.



    So (maybe) - when we write a story we write it in direct
    speech and put it in quotes. But when we tell the same
    story we use indirect speech and, accordingly, we switch
    tenses to the past.


    I've overheard many conversations at the local pub in which direct speech and/or the historical present tense are quite noticeable AFAIC. People use such devices to make jokes & personal anecdotes sound more immediate. ;-)



    PS: Although we can also write stories in indirect speech
    (however, we hardly find such stories in books).


    Indirect speech is sometimes used in history books, if the general drift of a conversation is known but the precise wording isn't. Otherwise the use of quotation marks, together with the beginning of a new line whenever the speaker changes... or in non-fiction the indentation of long quotes & examples ... adds a bit of "white space" which makes the material easier to read.



    In this case we must also switch tenses to the past if we
    tell about the past.


    Usually we do, but not always. See my examples above.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)