• And/From... 1.

    From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Roy Witt on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to mark lewis:

    and mine is short enough to make a tagline from ;)

    and? from?


    Good questions, IMHO. Read on.... :-)



    There's also an English grammar rule about using an idiom
    at the beginning of a sentence and/or a preposition at the
    end of a sentence.


    When you & I went to school it was frowned upon to begin a sentence
    with a co-ordinating conjunction such as "and" or "but" although the writers of
    magazine ads did. It was frowned upon to say "It's me" although other kids our
    own age did. It was frowned upon to say "Where are you from?" although you may
    have recognized it as a pickup line at the local tavern shortly thereafter.

    No doubt many students wondered what planet their teachers were on.
    Chances are these students knew how to speak colloquial English before entering
    school, however, and it was the teacher's duty to drag them kicking & screaming
    to the next level by modelling formal usage. That was the situation in Canada,
    at any rate... as seen from the other side of the desk later. ;-)

    In Fidonet, people tend to use informal language because we're all
    in effect members of the same club. That's what I'm doing when I say "Hi, Roy"
    rather than "Hello, Mr. Witt". That's what I'm doing when I use metaphors such
    as the one in the first sentence of the previous paragraph... remembering how I
    enjoyed learning about the equivalent (for example) of "put that in your pipe &
    smoke it" in French, I understand why some of our readers from the ex-USSR have
    made a point of encouraging native speakers of English to use them freely. The
    "rules" WRT formal & informal usage are a bit different at times. I think your
    query about the use of "from" here involves more than just word order, however.
    As I was about to post this reply I noticed you'd found another example... I'll
    continue the discussion later with more detail about "from" in particular. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Roy Witt on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    When you & I went to school it was frowned upon to begin
    a sentence with a co-ordinating conjunction such as "and"
    or "but" although the writers of magazine ads did.

    It was noted in my 9th grade English class that newspapers
    were the foremost offender of conjunction syndrome in their
    reporting.


    Heh. I used newspaper articles as examples of biased reporting in my English classes... placing two different accounts of the same event side by side. As for the grammar in newspaper articles, which I didn't really go into because I'd found so many wonderful examples elsewhere, it seems to be getting worse. When I finish my second installment here you'll see what I mean. :-))



    It was frowned upon to say "It's me" although other kids
    our own age did. It was frowned upon to say "Where are
    you from?" although you may have recognized it as a pickup
    line at the local tavern shortly thereafter.

    I remember those days.


    I figured you would. I suspect you may also remember that certain older textbooks... and older teachers... tended to say things like "that dress looks well on you". Fortunately for me, I had an English teacher in grade ten who (although she was in her mid-fifties) was able to explain linking verbs to my satisfaction. I'm not sure whether times had changed or whether some folks were overcorrecting. But I'm grateful to "Miss Langwidge" for inspiring me to learn about grammar, which until then seemed rather boring to me. The problem was that I have a knack for it... i.e. as far as English is concerned. I take no personal credit for that. We all have our talents & I had more opportunity than others, growing up as I did in an ex-Brit setting close to the US border. For the first time somebody introduced questions I couldn't easily answer. If it takes me awhile to respond to questions in this echo, I'm probably enjoying myself verifying that a number of acknowledged experts see things my way. ;-)



    Chances are these students knew how to speak colloquial
    English before entering school, however, and it was the
    teacher's duty to drag them kicking & screaming to the
    next level by modelling formal usage. That was the
    situation in Canada, at any rate... as seen from the
    other side of the desk later. ;-)

    That was also the case in the states, although it has
    gone the way of the dodo bird in more recent times.


    Yes. But as I often say (in effect) to the Russians here, knowing how to wear a suit & tie comes in handy at times. While it's nice to know you can get away with jeans & a t-shirt if the situation calls for them, it's also nice to know you have a choice. AFAIC dropping back to a less formal level is easier than going the other way... particularly if you're not used to it. :-)



    I also got the reprimand from my father when I began to
    use what he termed as "Chicagoisms" suchas dis, dat and
    many other words.


    In our neighbourhood, other folks had "dinner" at 6:00 PM while we had "supper" at 5:00 PM. My parents came from Someplace Else. (I am who I am ... take it or leave it! I gather you're the sort of person who can relate to what I'm trying to say). I learned to talk one way at school & another way at home. I didn't like it when I had to go home before everybody else did & they weren't available for some time after I had finished eating. OTOH, when I was expected to teach PYGMALION/MY FAIR LADY I found it right up my alley.... :-)



    Cool. I'm always up for another session of English 101.


    Glad to hear it! You ask, I'll answer... or at least try to. :-)



    (I hope the Russians know what 'cool' means in American
    colloquial English)


    The younger ones certainly do... and I think the others will catch on quickly, if they haven't already. With 300,000,000+ people & a flourishing trade in books, movies, etc. the US takes up a lot of bandwidth nowadays. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Roy Witt on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to mark lewis:

    I have one of those hearing problems: tinitus (sp).
    | tinnitus


    Ah. I have a copy of THE BANTAM MEDICAL DICTIONARY.... ;-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    08 Jul 12 00:46, Ardith Hinton wrote to Roy Witt:

    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to mark lewis:

    and mine is short enough to make a tagline from ;)

    and? from?

    Good questions, IMHO. Read on.... :-)

    There's also an English grammar rule about using an idiom
    at the beginning of a sentence and/or a preposition at the
    end of a sentence.

    When you & I went to school it was frowned upon to begin
    a sentence with a co-ordinating conjunction such as "and" or "but" although the writers of magazine ads did.

    It was noted in my 9th grade English class that newspapers were the
    foremost offender of conjunction syndrome in their reporting.

    It was frowned upon to say "It's me" although other kids our own age
    did. It was frowned upon to say "Where are you from?" although you
    may have recognized it as a pickup line at the local tavern shortly thereafter.

    I remember those days.

    No doubt many students wondered what planet their
    teachers were on. Chances are these students knew how to speak
    colloquial English before entering school, however, and it was the teacher's duty to drag them kicking & screaming to the next level by modelling formal usage. That was the situation in Canada, at any
    rate... as seen from the other side of the desk later. ;-)

    That was also the case in the states, although it has gone the way of the
    dodo bird in more recent times. I also got the reprimand from my father
    when I began to use what he termed as "Chicagoisms" such as dis, dat and
    many other words.

    In Fidonet, people tend to use informal language because we're all in effect members of the same club. That's what I'm doing
    when I say "Hi, Roy" rather than "Hello, Mr. Witt". That's what I'm
    doing when I use metaphors such as the one in the first sentence of
    the previous paragraph... remembering how I enjoyed learning about
    the equivalent (for example) of "put that in your pipe & smoke it" in French, I understand why some of our readers from the ex-USSR have
    made a point of encouraging native speakers of English to use them
    freely. The "rules" WRT formal & informal usage are a bit different
    at times. I think your query about the use of "from" here involves
    more than just word order, however. As I was about to post this reply
    I noticed you'd found another example... I'll continue the discussion later with more detail about "from" in particular.
    :-)

    Cool. I'm always up for another session of English 101. (I hope the
    Russians know what 'cool' means in American colloquial English)

    R\%/itt

    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -

    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


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    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@newmail.ru>

    Hi, Ardith Hinton! How are you?
    on Friday, 13 of July, I read your message to Roy Witt
    about "And/From... 1."


    When you & I went to school it was frowned upon to begin a sentence with a co-ordinating conjunction such as "and" or "but"
    although the writers of magazine ads did. It was frowned upon to say "It's me" although other kids our own age did.

    When I attended a course on studing English I heard the following joking story:

    Knocking on the door.
    "Who's there?"
    "It's I!"
    "Come in, Russian student!"
    ;)

    [...Beware of programmers carrying screwdrives]
    Bye Ardith!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012


    --- ifmail v.2.15dev5.4
    * Origin: Demos online service (2:5020/400)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    13 Jul 12 15:38, mark lewis wrote to Roy Witt:

    I also got the reprimand from my father when I began to use what
    he termed as "Chicagoisms" such as dis, dat and many other words.

    dis, dat, deez, and doze... they're further afield than chicago... i
    grew up with them in south georgia in the 60's and 70's... have
    heard them all across the country, too ;)

    8^) Other than a 13mo stint in Europe during WW2, my dad wasn't a
    world traveler. His field of influence went as far as Chicago and
    into northern Wisconsin, upper Michigan and Minnesota. He
    considered such talk to be 'colored' talk ... being a southern
    Georgian you know what I mean with that.

    yup... and there's still many folk who talk with their mouth full of marbles... some, though, do have an excuse... they learned and repeat
    what they hear and with a hearing problem, well...

    I have one of those hearing problems: tinitus (sp). But I don't mumble or jumble words.


    R\%/itt

    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -

    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


    --- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000-10
    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/2140.91 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    relate to what I'm trying to say). I learned to talk one way at
    school & another way at home. I didn't like it when I had to go home before everybody else did & they weren't available for some time after
    I had finished eating. OTOH, when I was expected to teach
    PYGMALION/MY FAIR LADY I found it right up my alley.... :-)

    Cool. I'm always up for another session of English 101.

    Glad to hear it! You ask, I'll answer... or at least try
    to. :-)

    (I hope the Russians know what 'cool' means in American
    colloquial English)

    The younger ones certainly do... and I think the others
    will catch on quickly, if they haven't already. With 300,000,000+
    people & a flourishing trade in books, movies, etc. the US takes up a
    lot of bandwidth nowadays. :-)


    Besides, "cool" has some relation to a Russian idiom.
    You say "He looks cool." In reality "cool" came from the idiom "cool as a cucumber."
    In Russia we say, "He looks like a (nice) cucumber." And we probably also don't
    know the origin. ;-)

    Best regards - alexander
    --- ---------------------------------------
    * Origin: Cool (2:5020/2140.91)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    16 Jul 12 16:33, mark lewis wrote to Roy Witt:


    yup... and there's still many folk who talk with their mouth full of
    marbles... some, though, do have an excuse... they learned and
    repeat what they hear and with a hearing problem, well...

    I have one of those hearing problems: tinitus (sp). But I don't
    mumble or jumble words.

    what i'm speaking of it not tinitus that i know of...

    Ringing in the ears (tinitus) can be so loud that you can't undeestand
    anyone's spoken word. I certainly have a hard time with that part of it.

    People complain because the TV audio is too loud, yet it's just right to
    me, I can hear over the ringing when the TV audio is loud enough to drown
    out the ringing.

    everyone i've ever known with this type of problem has generally had
    to have tubes put in their ears... some did and some did not... some
    were too far along in the language skills to be corrected by the time
    the tubes went in...

    Ear tubes are used to help children that suffer from inner ear infections
    ... those tubes will fall out over time.

    so, i think i'm gunna go have some pasketti pacifically like my mom
    usta make it ;)

    If you need any help with that, Nancy makes puskeddy to die for...she
    aquired good kitchen skills from her real Italian dad. Too bad her mom was
    too stubborn to pay attention; they might have had a happier marriage. Her
    best is steamed vegetables and they're never steamed long enough for my
    tastes.

    R\%/itt


    --- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000-10
    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    15 Jul 12 10:56, Ardith Hinton wrote to Roy Witt:

    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    When you & I went to school it was frowned upon to begin
    a sentence with a co-ordinating conjunction such as "and"
    or "but" although the writers of magazine ads did.

    It was noted in my 9th grade English class that newspapers
    were the foremost offender of conjunction syndrome in their
    reporting.

    Heh. I used newspaper articles as examples of biased reporting in my English classes... placing two different accounts of
    the same event side by side.

    We weren't allowed to use newspaper articles in 9th grade, but they were allowed later on in my 10th, 11th and 12th grade classes.

    As for the grammar in newspaper articles, which I didn't really go
    into because I'd found so many wonderful examples elsewhere, it seems
    to be getting worse.

    What was her neme? Mary Katherine Hamm! A gal that appears on the Fox News Network as a political consultant. She used some bad grammar to describe
    an event that she reported on. I emailed her at the studio and actually
    got a reply thanking me for the lesson in English grammar.

    8^)

    When I finish my second installment here you'll see what I mean.
    :-))

    Ok..

    It was frowned upon to say "It's me" although other kids
    our own age did. It was frowned upon to say "Where are
    you from?" although you may have recognized it as a pickup
    line at the local tavern shortly thereafter.

    I remember those days.

    I figured you would. I suspect you may also remember
    that certain older textbooks... and older teachers... tended to say
    things like "that dress looks well on you".

    I do recall textbooks like that, but never heard a teacher say 'well' when
    she meant 'very nice'...

    Fortunately for me, I had an English teacher in grade ten who
    (although she was in her mid-fifties) was able to explain linking
    verbs to my satisfaction.

    That would have been a blessing, in my case. I didn't have any teachers
    that wanted to take time out for a personal lesson.

    I'm not sure whether times had changed or whether some folks were overcorrecting. But I'm grateful to "Miss Langwidge" for inspiring
    me to learn about grammar, which until then seemed rather boring to
    me.

    Speaking of boring. I had to take English Speach 3 times before I got the theatrical drama teacher that also taught speach. Unlike the one who
    flunked me twice for my non-participation after he embarrased me before
    the class over my grammatical mistakes. I was a shy and easily upset
    youngster in those days. 13yo and would burst into tears when someone in authority spoke an angry word to me.

    The problem was that I have a knack for it... i.e. as far as
    English is concerned. I take no personal credit for that. We all
    have our talents & I had more opportunity than others, growing up as
    I did in an ex-Brit setting close to the US border. For the first
    time somebody introduced questions I couldn't easily answer. If it
    takes me awhile to respond to questions in this echo, I'm probably enjoying myself verifying that a number of acknowledged experts see
    things my way. ;-)

    That's a smart thing to do. Too many of us blurt out what we think is
    right, even if it's wrong. 8^)

    Chances are these students knew how to speak colloquial
    English before entering school, however, and it was the
    teacher's duty to drag them kicking & screaming to the
    next level by modelling formal usage. That was the
    situation in Canada, at any rate... as seen from the
    other side of the desk later. ;-)

    That was also the case in the states, although it has
    gone the way of the dodo bird in more recent times.

    Yes. But as I often say (in effect) to the Russians
    here, knowing how to wear a suit & tie comes in handy at times.
    While it's nice to know you can get away with jeans & a t-shirt if
    the situation calls for them, it's also nice to know you have a
    choice. AFAIC dropping back to a less formal level is easier than
    going the other way... particularly if you're not used to it. :-)

    And no one bothers to call up the spelling or grammar police when you do.

    I also got the reprimand from my father when I began to
    use what he termed as "Chicagoisms" suchas dis, dat and
    many other words.

    In our neighbourhood, other folks had "dinner" at 6:00 PM while we had "supper" at 5:00 PM. My parents came from Someplace
    Else. (I am who I am ... take it or leave it!

    My mom came from the other side of the tracks and when dinner was ready,
    she'd yell out "come and get it!" or "slops on the table", not saying one
    way or the other whether the 'it' was supper or dinner.

    I gather you're the sort of person who can relate to what I'm trying
    to say). I learned to talk one way at school & another way at home.

    Lol! When mom was around, we were allowed to use any form that suited
    us...when dad got home, that was a different story. Even though he never
    made it past 11th grade, I think he had a good grasp of the language
    because he was a very shrewd and good-to-know-ya businessman.

    I didn't like it when I had to go home before everybody else did &
    they weren't available for some time after I had finished eating.
    OTOH, when I was expected to teach PYGMALION/MY FAIR LADY I found it
    right up my alley.... :-)

    Heh...I never made it into the theater until the summer after I graduated
    from high school. I wouldn't have made it then, had I not been dating the daughter of the producer of a play I was interested in; Mr Roberts. I got
    the part of Stefanowski, one of the crew scrubbing the deck who tapped out
    an SOS signal when the 'ole man' came on deck.

    Cool. I'm always up for another session of English 101.

    Glad to hear it! You ask, I'll answer... or at least try
    to. :-)

    Nancy does that for me too. My grammar has improved 200-300% since we met
    back in the late 70s.

    (I hope the Russians know what 'cool' means in American
    colloquial English)

    The younger ones certainly do... and I think the others
    will catch on quickly, if they haven't already. With 300,000,000+
    people & a flourishing trade in books, movies, etc. the US takes up a
    lot of bandwidth nowadays. :-)

    The English language has certainly been spread to all four corners of the
    earth as well. I've noted that the CCTV9 news channel on satellites has
    Chinese newscasters reporting in perfect English, as if they were taught
    in an American environment. They sound more like the Turner News reporters
    than Chinese reporters

    R\%/itt


    --- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000-10
    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    20 Jul 12 23:56, Ardith Hinton wrote to Roy Witt:

    Hi, Roy! Recently you wrote in a message to mark lewis:

    I have one of those hearing problems: tinitus (sp).
    | tinnitus

    Ah. I have a copy of THE BANTAM MEDICAL DICTIONARY....
    ;-)

    I have a Dictionary/Thesaurus/Medical/Legal/Financial all in one by FarLex...8^)

    Tinitus

    8^) For the medical ear condition, see tinnitus.

    Tinitus is an EBM/synthpop festival in Stockholm, Sweden. It is
    traditionally held in the beginning of November each year.

    But of course, you're right when it comes to tinitus (sp) in the medical
    term as tinnitus, the subject at hand...

    R\%/itt

    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -

    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


    --- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000-10
    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)