• Earth or the Earth

    From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to mark lewis on Fri Mar 2 18:00:57 2018
    Hi, mark! Recently you wrote in a message to alexander koryagin:

    i hope that makes sense... but it is also twisted because
    Earth and earth are not the same things... we live on Earth
    and dig the earth to plant trees... maybe one day we'll be
    able to say that we live on Mars and dig the martian earth
    to plant trees, too :)


    The fact that the same word is used in reference to the name of our planet *and* in reference to the locally available mixture of gravel & sand & clay & decaying organic matter we tend to think of when we want to grow trees etc. is confusing at times, even to native speakers of English... [wry grin].


    Here's what FOWLER'S MODERN ENGLISH USAGE has to say:

    earth. Freq. with initial capital (Earth) when considered
    as a planet of the solar system. In such contexts, like
    Mars, Venus, etc., it is normally used without the definite
    article (but _the planet Earth_).


    And here's what Psalm 24 (KJV) has to say:

    The earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof; the world,
    and they that dwell therein.


    IMHO it is helpful though not always required to capitalize "Earth" when we're referring to our planet as a whole. In a book about astronomy the writer's intent is obvious... but in everyday conversation it may not be.

    I can make allowances for people who lived in an era when the known world didn't extend very far beyond the Mediterranean Sea. Nowadays, when we routinely exchange electronic mail between places they were unaware of, I try to make allowances for others too & express my ideas in a manner I think will convey whatever I'm attempting to convey to the greatest number of them. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to All on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@erec.ru>

    Hello, All!

    I am very glag that there are some people here. Seizing an opportunity, I am cooking another question: ;)

    Quite often I see that people call this planet "Earth", whereas I read it must be called "the Earth". Maybe there is a rule?

    For instance:
    http://www.space.com/15822-planet-edge-solar-system.html
    =========Beginning of the citation==============
    However, when Gomes ran the same calculations with the addition of the gravitational pull of a massive planet at the outskirts of the solar system, Sedna and the other anomalous objects' expected orbits fell in line with observations. The unseen planet would be too far away to perceptibly perturb the motions of Earth and the other inner planets, but close enough to the scattered disc objects to sway them.
    =========The end of the citation================


    Bye All!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012



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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@erec.ru>

    F2EP
    Hi, mark lewis! How are you?
    on Thursday, 21 of June, I read your message to alexander koryagin
    about "Earth or the Earth"

    Quite often I see that people call this planet "Earth", whereas I read
    it must be called "the Earth". Maybe there is a rule?

    Earth is the name... the earth is what it is...

    try substituting another planet in place of earth and see how it comes
    out ;)

    eg: Quite often I see that people call this planet "Mars", whereas I
    read it must be called "the Mars". Maybe there is a rule?


    Well... Suppose we make an ecological ogranization. For instance: http://www.foe.org/news/news-releases/2012-06-nuclear-watchdog-petitions-nrc-to-require-san-onofre-relicensing
    =========Beginning of the citation==============
    WASHINGTON, D.C. - Friends of the Earth today filed a legal petition to require
    the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission to keep the crippled reactors at the San
    Onofre Nuclear Generating Station shut down until and unless their operator, Southern California Edison, obtains a license amendment.
    =========The end of the citation================

    Or NACA writes:
    http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_earth.html#birth
    =========Beginning of the citation==============
    Earth's Birth
    How was our planet born?

    The Earth was born about 4 and a half billion years ago, at the same time the whole solar system (the Sun, Earth, and other planets) formed. An enormous cloud of gas started to get smaller and smaller as the gas particles attracted each other with gravity. Most of the gas went to the center of the solar system
    and formed the Sun, but several other pieces spinning about the Sun solidified into the planets, including the Earth.
    =========The end of the citation================

    So, your rule is quite controversial.

    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's cheap cologne attracts women]
    Bye mark!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012



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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to alexander koryagin on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    21 Jun 12 15:53, alexander koryagin wrote to mark lewis:

    Quite often I see that people call this planet "Earth", whereas I
    read it must be called "the Earth". Maybe there is a rule?

    Look up the definition of 'the' in an English dictionary ... there are
    several ways in which to use the word. One that fits your 'the earth'
    scenario is:

    The, determiner (article): used preceding titles and certain uniquely
    specific or proper nouns, such as place names; the United States; the Honourable Edward Brown; the Chairman; the moon, the Earth...

    i.e. Earth is the name (noun) of the planet that you live on.
    Mars is the name (noun) of a planet in this solar system.

    Mars does not fit very well in the English language with 'the'; but 'The
    planet Mars' does.

    So, your rule is quite controversial.

    So is the word, the. It has many uses if one is familiar with the
    language. It's not so familiar with someone whose native tongue isn't compatable with English.

    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]


    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to cheap
    ...men's cologne.


    R\%/itt



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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    23 Jun 12 15:03, mark lewis wrote to Roy Witt:


    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]

    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to
    ...cheap men's cologne.

    "cheap men" or "cheap cologne"?

    "men's" implys ownership...

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...


    R\%/itt



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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    24 Jun 12 19:24, mark lewis wrote to Roy Witt:

    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]

    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to
    ...cheap men's cologne.

    "cheap men" or "cheap cologne"?

    "men's" implys ownership...

    yes and "cheap" can be a modifier of "men" or "cologne"...

    In this case, because the (') implies ownership, cheap doesn't modify
    men's, it modifys cologne. How about; 'expensive men's cologne'

    Are men expensive or is the cologne expensive?

    He bought some expensive men's cologne!

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...

    and mine is short enough to make a tagline from ;)

    and? from? There's also an English grammar rule about using an idiom at
    the beginning of a sentence and/or a preposition at the end of a sentence.

    (idiom) mine is short enough to make a tagline (preposition).

    i.e. mine is short enough to make a tagline.


    R\%/itt



    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -


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  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    On Mon Sep-26-1994 15:06, Roy Witt (1:387/22) wrote to mark lewis:

    24 Jun 12 19:24, mark lewis wrote to Roy Witt:

    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]

    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to
    ...cheap men's cologne.

    "cheap men" or "cheap cologne"?

    "men's" implys ownership...

    yes and "cheap" can be a modifier of "men" or "cologne"...

    In this case, because the (') implies ownership, cheap doesn't
    modify men's, it modifys cologne. How about; 'expensive men's
    cologne'

    Are men expensive or is the cologne expensive?

    He bought some expensive men's cologne!

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...
    [...]

    You're both wrong. Men are high-maintenance. (-:


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LA - (1:3828/7)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    27 Jun 12 07:38, Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    He bought some expensive men's cologne!

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...
    [...]

    You're both wrong. Men are high-maintenance. (-:

    I'm not, but many of my toys are... 8^)


    R\%/itt


    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


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  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    On Wed Jun-27-2012 01:53, Roy Witt (1:387/22) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    27 Jun 12 07:38, Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    He bought some expensive men's cologne!

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...
    [...]

    You're both wrong. Men are high-maintenance. (-:

    I'm not, but many of my toys are... 8^)

    Okay, how about this, then? You USED to be high-maintenance, your toys notwithstanding. (-:[


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LA - (1:3828/7)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to mark lewis on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@newmail.ru>

    F2EP
    Hi, mark lewis! How are you?
    on Thursday, 28 of June, I read your message to Roy Witt
    about "Earth or the Earth"


    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]

    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to
    ...cheap men's cologne.

    "cheap men" or "cheap cologne"?
    "men's" implys ownership...

    IMHO "men's" can serve as an adjective.

    yes and "cheap" can be a modifier of "men" or "cologne"...

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...

    and mine is short enough to make a tagline from ;)

    Here is another variant, which IMHO smoother:
    Women spend heaps of money buying Chanel, but finally succumb to cheap colone.

    [...My smiler has temporarily broken]
    Bye mark!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012


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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to Roy Witt on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@newmail.ru>

    F2EP
    Hi, Roy Witt! How are you?
    on Thursday, 28 of June, I read your message to alexander koryagin
    about "Earth or the Earth"

    Quite often I see that people call this planet "Earth", whereas I
    read it must be called "the Earth". Maybe there is a rule?

    Look up the definition of 'the' in an English dictionary ... there are several ways in which to use the word. One that fits your 'the earth' scenario is:

    The, determiner (article): used preceding titles and certain uniquely specific or proper nouns, such as place names; the United States; the Honourable Edward Brown; the Chairman; the moon, the Earth...

    i.e. Earth is the name (noun) of the planet that you live on.
    Mars is the name (noun) of a planet in this solar system.

    Yes, but when your dictionary enumerates the planet names it uses "the Earth". (begins with a capital letter). "the earth" is also all right, but it is IMHO a
    different term. For instance, "The earth was very close, and the pilot baled out."

    [...Nil de nihito fil]
    Bye Roy!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012


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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to alexander koryagin on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    28 Jun 12 13:39, alexander koryagin wrote to Roy Witt:

    Quite often I see that people call this planet "Earth", whereas I
    read it must be called "the Earth". Maybe there is a rule?

    Look up the definition of 'the' in an English dictionary ... there
    are several ways in which to use the word. One that fits your 'the
    earth' scenario is:

    The, determiner (article): used preceding titles and certain
    uniquely specific or proper nouns, such as place names; the United
    States; the Honourable Edward Brown; the Chairman; the moon, the
    Earth...

    i.e. Earth is the name (noun) of the planet that you live on.
    Mars is the name (noun) of a planet in this solar system.

    Yes, but when your dictionary enumerates the planet names it uses
    "the Earth". (begins with a capital letter). "the earth" is also all right, but it is IMHO a different term. For instance, "The earth was
    very close, and the pilot baled out."

    If you look up 'earth' in the dictionary, it decribes differences in the
    use of the word, some capped and some not capped.

    If you're speaking of the Earth as a subject, it is a noun and a capital E
    is supposed to be used. Meanwhile earth with a small case e may be just
    plain old dirt in a sentence like: "the earth shook for several minutes"


    R\%/itt


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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    27 Jun 12 17:12, Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    Both your and my versions are correct...
    [...]

    You're both wrong. Men are high-maintenance. (-:

    I'm not, but many of my toys are... 8^)

    Okay, how about this, then? You USED to be high-maintenance, your
    toys notwithstanding. (-:[

    Ummmm, no.


    R\%/itt

    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -

    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


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    * Origin: Roiz Flying \A/ Service * South Texas * USA * (1:387/22)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to alexander koryagin on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    28 Jun 12 13:33, alexander koryagin wrote to mark lewis:

    [...In reality, women use Chanel perfume to attract men. And men's
    cheap cologne attracts women]

    ...Women use Chanel perfume to attract, while women succumb to
    ...cheap men's cologne.

    "cheap men" or "cheap cologne"?
    "men's" implys ownership...

    IMHO "men's" can serve as an adjective.

    yes and "cheap" can be a modifier of "men" or "cologne"...

    Women use Chanel to attract but succumb to men's cheap cologne.

    Both your and my versions are correct...

    and mine is short enough to make a tagline from ;)

    Here is another variant, which IMHO smoother:
    Women spend heaps of money buying Chanel, but finally succumb to
    cheap colone.

    I prefer to think of it as: Women spend large amounts of money buying
    Chanel, but finally succumb to buying cheap cologne instead.

    Note that perfum is made up of 20% to 40% oil and the rest is an essence.

    Note also that cologne is only 3% to 9% oil and the rest is essence and alcohol.

    Men don't have the desire to 'stink' as long as nor as pretty as women,
    thus they use cologne. It is also cheaper because it doesn't contain the
    high percentage of oils.

    The oil content of perfum makes the fragrance last longer than
    that of cologne.


    R\%/itt


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  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    On Mon Oct-04-1993 15:06, Roy Witt (1:387/22) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    27 Jun 12 17:12, Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    Both your and my versions are correct...
    [...]

    You're both wrong. Men are high-maintenance. (-:

    I'm not, but many of my toys are... 8^)

    Okay, how about this, then? You USED to be high-maintenance, your
    toys notwithstanding. (-:[

    Ummmm, no.

    Never?


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LA - (1:3828/7)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/400 to Roy Witt on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    From: "alexander koryagin" <koryagin@newmail.ru>

    F2EP
    Hi, Roy Witt! How are you?
    on Friday, 29 of June, I read your message to alexander koryagin
    about "Earth or the Earth"


    [skipped]

    Yes, but when your dictionary enumerates the planet names it uses
    "the Earth". (begins with a capital letter). "the earth" is also all
    right, but it is IMHO a different term. For instance, "The earth was
    very close, and the pilot baled out."

    If you look up 'earth' in the dictionary, it decribes differences in
    the use of the word, some capped and some not capped.

    If you're speaking of the Earth as a subject, it is a noun and a
    capital E is supposed to be used. Meanwhile earth with a small case e
    may be just plain old dirt in a sentence like: "the earth shook for several minutes"


    I looked at the article about "earth" in my dictionary (Longman), and it says: =========Beginning of the citation==============
    earth [transcription] 1 (the) uncountable (often cap.) the world on which we live: They return successfully from the moon to (the) Earth.
    =========The end of the citation================

    Most likely, it all means that there is not any rule on this account, and using
    "the" before Earth is optional. Well, indeed, it is very probably. After all, Englishmen don't use definite articles before names. And when we write "Earth" we imply that it is a name of the planet. Technically, there is no any need to use a definite article.

    In general situation is funny. Englishmen think that Mars, Jupiter, etc are planet names. That is why they don't use "the" before them. But when they speak
    of the sun, the moon, the e(E)arth it doesn't look that we have deal with names. And many people use "the" despite the fact that each of the mentioned objects are unique.

    [...There is no two identical nose-prints among cats]
    Bye Roy!
    Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
    fido7.english-tutor 2012


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  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to alexander koryagin on Sat Mar 3 08:24:55 2018
    29 Jun 12 22:08, alexander koryagin wrote to Roy Witt:

    If you're speaking of the Earth as a subject, it is a noun and a
    capital E is supposed to be used. Meanwhile earth with a small case
    e may be just plain old dirt in a sentence like: "the earth shook
    for several minutes"

    I looked at the article about "earth" in my dictionary (Longman), and
    it says:
    =========Beginning of the citation==============
    earth [transcription] 1 (the) uncountable (often cap.) the world on
    which we live: They return successfully from the moon to (the) Earth. =========The end of the citation================

    see (often cap), whichmeans that the word is often capitalized.

    Most likely, it all means that there is not any rule on this account,
    and using "the" before Earth is optional. Well, indeed, it is very probably. After all, Englishmen don't use definite articles before
    names. And when we write "Earth" we imply that it is a name of the
    planet. Technically, there is no any need to use a definite article.

    I think the use of 'the' before the word earth would mean that the subject
    is the Earth and not the earth we know is dirt...

    In general situation is funny. Englishmen think that Mars, Jupiter,
    etc are planet names. That is why they don't use "the" before them.

    Using The before Mars and Jupiter would be like speaking of those
    planets out of context. But if one were to use 'the' to speak of those
    planets as in "The planet Mars", then it would seem to be in a better
    context than not.

    But when they speak of the sun, the moon, the e(E)arth it doesn't
    look that we have deal with names. And many people use "the" despite
    the fact that each of the mentioned objects are unique.

    Or we could use 'the' in such a context as I outlined above. The Solar
    Sytem Sun or the Earth's satellite Moon...

    R\%/itt

    ... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
    ... net node-number to the ZCC ! - Cato the Elder -

    ... Reminder:

    ... On Friday September 8th 2006, Mike Godwin's 16 year experiment was
    ... concluded and Godwin's Law was officially repealed by a popular vote
    ... among millions of individuals.

    ... http://repealgodwin.tripod.com/


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