• Fresh blood!

    From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to All on Fri Oct 18 00:06:42 2019
    Will you demur if I invite an acquaintance to this echo who
    is absolutely new to Fidonet and will not be able to use the

    traditional

    style of quoation because she will be accessing Fido through
    an NNTP gateway and post via a newsreader? I too have gone
    that way, but I am typesetting my messages in GNU Troff,
    in which I have implemented Fidonet quotations as a macro :-)

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/6.0)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Anton Shepelev on Thu Oct 17 22:28:35 2019
    Hi Anton -- on Oct 18 2019 at 00:06, you wrote:

    Will you demur if I invite an acquaintance to this echo who
    [...]
    an NNTP gateway and post via a newsreader? I too have gone

    We welcome new people, of course - as far as quoting goes, I'd say that if we can understand that it's a quote we should be able to figure it out! Let's give a try and see how it looks?

    As usual, we encourage people to quote only as much as is needed -- personally,
    I hate seeing 25 lines of quote and a one word answer! :-)

    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Dallas Hinton on Fri Oct 18 12:20:48 2019
    Dallas Hinton:

    We welcome new people, of course -- as far as quoting
    goes, I'd say that if we can understand that it's a quote
    we should be able to figure it out! Let's give a try and
    see how it looks?

    She will a use a standard newsreader that quotes roughly the
    way I have quoted you above (and below).

    As usual, we encourage people to quote only as much as is
    needed -- personally, I hate seeing 25 lines of quote and
    a one word answer! :-)

    Those are the very good and general rules, about which I
    will certainly instruct her.

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Fri Oct 18 12:54:38 2019
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 18.10.2019 12:20

    We welcome new people, of course -- as far as quoting goes, I'd
    say that if we can understand that it's a quote we should be able
    to figure it out! Let's give a try and see how it looks?

    She will a use a standard newsreader that quotes roughly the way I
    have quoted you above (and below).

    As usual, we encourage people to quote only as much as is
    needed -- personally, I hate seeing 25 lines of quote and a one
    word answer! :-)

    Those are the very good and general rules, about which I will
    certainly instruct her.

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program for making good
    quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums etc. Maybe it can be useful,
    or at least you can try it.

    First, select the text from your echo/forum window. Paste it to ReformatorQuoter via Windows clipboard. After making quoting and necessary editing you put the text back to the old place, in the same way. More info is in the built-in help.

    The official page of the distributive is here: https://www.facebook.com/ReformatorQuoter
    or you can use the direct link to the zip at my google drive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zHjMdx2CUDWzsKH5YvhICjzxAd8cdXIT

    PS: BTW, this utility can repair bad quoting. I've been using this program for a long time, and I can repair bad quoting or even rebuild the quoting if it is absent. So she can write her messages in any way.

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2019

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/6.0)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Anton Shepelev on Fri Oct 18 14:40:59 2019
    Hi Anton -- on Oct 18 2019 at 12:20, you wrote:

    She will a use a standard newsreader that quotes roughly the
    way I have quoted you above (and below).

    Seems perfectly satisfactory to me! I'm not much on rigid rules -- it's the content that matters!

    Those are the very good and general rules, about which I
    will certainly instruct her.

    Thanks -- and welcome to her!


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Alexander Koryagin on Fri Oct 18 14:42:14 2019
    Hi Alexander -- on Oct 18 2019 at 12:54, you wrote:

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program for
    making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums etc.
    Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.

    [...]

    rebuild the quoting if it is absent. So she can write her messages
    in any way.

    Thanks, Alexander - much appreciated!


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Anton Shepelev on Sat Oct 19 09:59:46 2019
    Anton Shepelev wrote:

    Will you demur if I invite an acquaintance to this echo who
    is absolutely new to Fidonet and will not be able to use the

    traditional

    style of quoation because she will be accessing Fido through
    an NNTP gateway and post via a newsreader? I too have gone
    that way, but I am typesetting my messages in GNU Troff,
    in which I have implemented Fidonet quotations as a macro :-)

    I'm sure the quotation style is not the most important thing. :)

    Some newsreaders can quote fidonet-style, I just set the quote string in this Sylpheed to "%I> ", and it shows your initials quite fine. ;)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Oct 19 14:02:34 2019
    Tommi Koivula:

    Some newsreaders can quote fidonet-style, I just set the
    quote string in this Sylpheed to "%I> ", and it shows
    your initials quite fine. ;)

    Thanks, I didn't know it!

    I myself am using Sylheed (as you may have seen from the
    headers) as one of the most beautiful e-mail and news
    clients. I don't think any other GUI client lets one avoid
    cartoonish icons and gradients and have a sharp and plain
    interface. But I am not going to recommend it to a newbie
    because it has no support of a killfile and its filters do
    not work with NNTP accounts:

    https://www.sraoss.jp/pipermail/sylpheed/2018-August/006681.html
    [Respect filters in NNTP accounts]

    And unlike FIDO, Usenet groups are full of filth and SPAM
    these days...

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Oct 20 01:31:30 2019
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a
    program for making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET
    group, WEB forums etc. Maybe it can be useful, or at
    least you can try it.

    I have never heard of it before.

    The official page of the distributive is here: https://www.facebook.com/ReformatorQuoter

    or you can use the direct link to the zip at my google
    drive:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zHjMdx2CUDWzsKH5YvhICjzxAd8cdXIT

    This is not a direct link, but one that leads to a page with
    a "Download" button. I trow Google Drive does not support
    direct links at all...

    The program is named "ReformatorQuoter" -- is it an intended
    pun with "refomrer"? I believe "QuoteReformatter" would be
    the proper English name, but yours is certainly more
    creative.

    The program is made in the best traditions of Windows 95,
    and even works on my Windows XP machine, which is rare in
    our days of bloated software written for virtual platforms
    such as .NET or Java. I was a little disappointed to see it
    distributed in the form of an installer that modifies the
    Windows registry, but found out that two files
    `reformator.exe' and `reformator.md5' constitute a working
    portable version that does not require any installation.

    In what language did you write and have you published the
    source code?

    Reformator supports only one font in only two sizes: 8 and
    10 pt. Whereas using a fixed font, if it is available on all
    versions of Windows, is understandable, the limitation of
    font size cannot be justified, considering different
    resolutions, displays, and eyesight of the users. I suggest
    that you let them set an arbitrary integer font size.

    What is your justification algorithm, how does it select
    spaces for stretching -- always from the right end of the
    line?

    A lot of vertical space is wasted because of the "Quoter"
    tab. Since it is the *only* tab in the window, why not
    remove it altogether? It does not perform any function. Or
    do you plan to add more tabs?

    The "Format+level" button ignores the checkbox "A space
    after quoter's symbol" if the initials are empty. For
    example, I get this:

    quotation

    and cannot get this:

    quotation

    Would that be bug?

    There is no "Format-level" button that could decrease the
    level of quotation, which I think would be very useful too.

    When the initials are not empty, Reformator adds a space at
    the beginning of each line, e.g.

    hey
    instead of:
    hey

    Is that the intended behavior?

    I also have suggestions concerting the inteface, such as
    using postive statements ("Justify") instead of negative
    ones ("Do not justify"), and the English translation. I can
    share them too if you are interested.

    By and large, Reformator is good program to supplement the
    deficiencies of text editors built into client software.
    Outlook, for example, is so defective that it cannot quote
    at all and cannot be used without Reformator.

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/360 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Oct 21 08:51:46 2019
    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 20.10.2019 01:31

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program
    for making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums
    etc. Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.
    I have never heard of it before.
    The official page of the distributive is here:
    https://www.facebook.com/ReformatorQuoter

    or you can use the direct link to the zip at my google drive:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zHjMdx2CUDWzsKH5YvhICjzxAd8cdXIT

    This is not a direct link, but one that leads to a page with
    a "Download" button. I trow Google Drive does not support direct
    links at all...

    Well, I meant that the URL at my Facebook page points to the Google Drive URL, but the second URL allows you get the zip without Facebook.

    BWT, Google drive supports direct links; you can read about it here: https://lifehacker.com/share-direct-links-to-files-in-google-drive-and-skip-th-1493813665
    or
    http://tinyurl.com/yxpwak2c

    The program is named "ReformatorQuoter" -- is it an intended pun
    with "refomrer"? I believe "QuoteReformatter" would be the proper
    English name, but yours is certainly more creative.

    No, once I've made a multifunctional program "Reformator". I wanted to make a utility which could easily reformat the formatted+justified e-texts to their unformatted forms so that my e-books reader showed it neat, without broken lines. Then, I realized that I can extend it and make a universal quoter for fido, usenet and web. Actually both utilities are inside the program "Reformator". ReformatorQuoter is the lite version -- it contains only a quoter
    utility. That's why "quoter" should be second in the program name.

    The program is made in the best traditions of Windows 95, and even
    works on my Windows XP machine, which is rare in our days of
    bloated software written for virtual platforms such as.NET or Java.
    I was a little disappointed to see it distributed in the form of an installer that modifies the Windows registry, but found out that
    two files!?! reformator.exe' and!?! reformator.md5' constitute a
    working portable version that does not require any installation.

    Windows users with little experience prefer app icons instead of file names. They have a headache when they hear about file extentions. The modern windows file explorer hides file extentions. It is not a bad idea, IMHO.

    In what language did you write and have you published the source
    code?

    The app was made in C++ Builder 6.0, no sources have been released.

    Reformator supports only one font in only two sizes: 8 and 10 pt.
    Whereas using a fixed font, if it is available on all versions of
    Windows, is understandable, the limitation of font size cannot be justified, considering different resolutions, displays, and
    eyesight of the users. I suggest that you let them set an arbitrary integer font size.

    Well, when you set up your windows system font Microsoft offers you three steps
    to do it -- "little, medium, large". In most cases it is enough. So if "little\medium is not enough it is possible to add "large". Also it is important to use a monospaced font.

    What is your justification algorithm, how does it select spaces for stretching -- always from the right end of the line?

    Yes, although it is more complicated. For instance, at first, spaces are added between sentences, then after commas, and if it is not enough spaces are added between words. Something like that, AFAIR.

    A lot of vertical space is wasted because of the "Quoter" tab.
    Since it is the *only* tab in the window, why not remove it
    altogether? It does not perform any function. Or do you plan to add
    more tabs?

    As I said, it is a lite version of "Reformer" (it has 10 tabs).

    The "Format+level" button ignores the checkbox "A space after
    quoter's symbol" if the initials are empty. For example, I get
    this:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    quotation

    and cannot get this:

    quotation
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    Actually you should not format the message text with empty initials. You should
    always put both initials for proper work.

    Would that be bug?

    I think it is not.

    There is no "Format-level" button that could decrease the level of quotation, which I think would be very useful too.

    I believe it is a very rare case to implement it. If, occasionally, you need it
    you can use pop-up menu and remove initials from the text paragrapher. Then you
    can use format+level to make the level you wish.

    When the initials are not empty, Reformator adds a space at the
    beginning of each line, e.g.
    Is that the intended behavior?

    Yes - it is a fidonet standard - it must be a space before every line with a quotation.

    I also have suggestions concerting the inteface, such as using
    postive statements ("Justify") instead of negative ones ("Do not justify"), and the English translation. I can share them too if you
    are interested.

    Actually formatting fidonet messages with justification is a trick, made for fun -- nobody like it. Although it looks cool. ;)

    By and large, Reformator is good program to supplement the
    deficiencies of text editors built into client software.

    I used it at web forums it it was cool. You should however at first correctly define the max length for the formatted line.

    Outlook,
    for example, is so defective that it cannot quote at all and cannot
    be used without Reformator.

    Yes, it uses the clipboard, and it makes it a universal tool.

    PS: There are some shortcomings of course. The most unpleasant one - it can undo only one operation. I planed to change the native RichEdit component with more complicated one, but I felt I could live with it. ;-) And besides - initially, it was designed for the following way of working -- you make quoting
    with ReformatorQuoter and then you return the text to your original text editor.

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2019

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Thu Oct 24 06:49:34 2019
    Hi, Anton Shepelev! I read your message from 18.10.2019 12:20

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program for
    making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums etc.
    Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.

    I am trying it now. Not bad. At first, I thought that my only options were the "Format" and the "Format+level" buttons, but then I discovered what a right
    click can reveal!

    Thank you for your contribution to the Fidonet epoch.

    ...A

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Sat Oct 26 18:34:50 2019
    Hi, August Abolins!
    I read your message from 24.10.2019 06:49

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program
    for making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums
    etc. Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.

    I am trying it now. Not bad. At first, I thought that my only
    options were the "Format" and the "Format+level" buttons, but then
    I discovered what a right click can reveal!

    I think it will a good idea if that menu be doubled in the main menu row, to the left of the "above all windows" item.

    Bye, August!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2019

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Oct 27 06:55:55 2019
    In a post between "Alexander Koryagin : August Abolins", on 10/26/2019 12:34 PM

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program
    for making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB forums
    etc. Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.

    I am trying it now. Not bad...

    I think it will a good idea if that menu be doubled in the main
    menu row, to the left of the "above all windows" item.

    I am not sure what you are meaning. I see nothing "to the left of the Above all
    Windows"

    I just used "View" in the top menu to increase the font size to 10. My
    laptop screen resolution is 1440x1050. The default setting of 8 was way too small to read. Thank you for the adjustment feature.

    "Make citation from selected text" is very handy.
    "Remove excessing empty lines" is a good thing to have too!

    I still have a lot of reading to do in the online Help: Tips, and Manual.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Sun Oct 27 11:06:10 2019
    Hi, August Abolins!
    I read your message from 27.10.2019 07:55

    Just in case I remind people that long ago I had made a program
    for making good quoting in Fidonet echos, USENET group, WEB
    forums etc. Maybe it can be useful, or at least you can try it.
    I am trying it now. Not bad...
    I think it will a good idea if that menu be doubled in the main
    menu row, to the left of the "above all windows" item.

    I am not sure what you are meaning. I see nothing "to the left of
    the Above all Windows"

    If you look at the program window you will see the following menu items "Above all windows: Turned ON/OFF", "View", "RUS", "ENG", "HELP". So, I told of an additional menu item which will be located to the left of the first above mentioned. It will be called "Tools".

    I just used "View" in the top menu to increase the font size to 10.
    My laptop screen resolution is 1440x1050. The default setting of 8
    was way too small to read. Thank you for the adjustment feature.

    "Make citation from selected text" is very handy. "Remove excessing
    empty lines" is a good thing to have too!

    I still have a lot of reading to do in the online Help: Tips, and
    Manual.

    PS: "Above all Windows" option - if you write your message and you need to look
    constantly at the particular web site you can turn it ON. In this case your web
    browser will not hide ReformatorQuoter.

    Bye, August!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2019

    ---
    * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)