Hi all,
I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 286, which I know isn't a popular computer among retro enthusiats, and I ask you, why? I know it was a commercial failure back in its day, because IBM got greedy and decided to make everybody pay royalties to them to develop new hardware for the machines. But I happened upon the thing for $10 at a garage sale, and I'm not really a wealthy collector. I'm not wealthy, period. :) And my particular model has ISA slots, so there's some flexibility there.

But what I'd like to know is what people have against the PS/2 these days. I mean, they sell for hundreds of dollars on eBay, so they must be worth something to somebody. I've toyed with the idea of selling the thing, but as it happens, I've formed a strong emotional attachment to it, like my mom did with an antique sewing machine that she affectionately referred to as "Bessie." But that's another story... for another day.
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Hello Forest!

01 Oct 18 10:37, you wrote to All:

Hi all,
I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 286, which I know isn't a popular computer among retro enthusiats, and I ask you, why? I know it was a commercial

IBM made the PS/2 to fight against the various clones of the IBM/PC.
PS/2 original architecture was amazing at that time, Microchannel BUS, OS/2, and lot of speed.
OTOH it was an IBM property design and in a new computer world where the standardization was becoming the way to the success it was been the nemesis of PS/2.

BTW PS/2 30 was the entry level of PS/2, released bt IBM to try sell PS/2 when PS/2 was already dead, I worked a lot on it for developing, slow, really slow, expensive and not very upgradable.

Eventually we used it as a VT100 terminal of a VAX 11/780 with kermit. :)

But what I'd like to know is what people have against the PS/2 these
days. I mean, they sell for hundreds of dollars on eBay, so they must

I don't know, but for me PS/2 was a little ugly story in the PC saga.

Ciao!
Fabio

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On 2018-10-01 16:37, Forest Moore : All wrote:

Hi all,
I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 286, which I know isn't a popular computer
among
retro enthusiats

But what I'd like to know is what people have against the PS/2 these
days.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but old PCs impress me very little.

Not only because most other computers of the same era was
in my personal view better designed than x86s, but also because the
x86s haven't really left the 640k mode, booting from the first sector of
the first drive on the first bus. True, they flip to protected mode or
long mode soon enough but there is still this legacy in them that still
allows you to run a very recent PC in the same limited way like your 286
up there.

Of course, this says more about the lack of progress on the platform
itself than your PS/2, but anyone wanting to have the bogged down
limited env. of 80s x86 can just make sure BIOS boot is enabled and boot
some old crap from an emulated diskdrive (over PXE, CD or whatever) and
get all the old weird limits imposed on you. In 2018, on a recent PC.

Also, code and programs made for I don't know, NES, C64, ZX Spectrum, Playstation 1 or Jupiter Ace are by design running in a fixed frame of performance. If those programs can perform Miracle X in Y time, it will
be an accomplishment. If one x86 PC wants to do X in Y time, its just a
matter of sticking the correct amount of cards in, and pay the cashiers
and its there for you.

Not trying to diss the people that coded awesome stuff for MSDOS-like
OSes in their time, but any "X in Y time" is fixable on PC just by
waiting and buying a new computer in 6-9 months and performance was
doubled, turning any former accomplishment into a "meh" more or less.

So, kudos to: https://trixter.oldskool.org/2015/04/07/8088-mph-we-break-all-your-emulators/

...but PC miracle coding is just often slightly less impressive than for
all the fixed architectures history provided for us, in my humble opinion.

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Hello Forest!

IBM made the PS/2 to fight against the various clones of the IBM/PC.

Actually, in order to gain market share in the microcomputer world -
8080s and Z80s running CP/M were pretty much the rule in 1980 - IBM
released the PC as open architecture - anybody could make computers or
parts (just like they could for the S-100 bus when that was state-of-the
art). Then when the market exploded, IBM decided to try to take back
control of it, as it had done in the mainframe world, thus the
proprietary bus (microchannel) that was incompatible with anything else
in the PC world. IBM failed in its attempt, although the microchannel architecture is amazing.

PS/2 original architecture was amazing at that time, Microchannel BUS,

OS/2,

and lot of speed.
OTOH it was an IBM property design and in a new computer world where

the

standardization was becoming the way to the success it was been the

nemesis of

PS/2.

BTW PS/2 30 was the entry level of PS/2, released bt IBM to try sell

PS/2 when

PS/2 was already dead, I worked a lot on it for developing, slow,

really slow,

expensive and not very upgradable.

The PS/2 model 30 was basically an original model IBM PC (8086 chip) with
256 KB of RAM and a mouse port added. The model 30-286 was basically an
IBM PC/XT using the 80286 chip. I have at least one each of every model
of PS/2 except the model 33, all of which are functional (I also have
OS/2 versions 1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 4.51 and 4.52).

Eventually we used it as a VT100 terminal of a VAX 11/780 with kermit.

:)

But what I'd like to know is what people have against the PS/2

these

days. I mean, they sell for hundreds of dollars on eBay, so they

must

Not to me, they don't. I picked up most of mine for scrap prices on eBAY
back in the early 2000s.

I don't know, but for me PS/2 was a little ugly story in the PC saga.

Basically a business tactic that failed. While IBM would license the microchannel bus so companies could make adapter cards, it didn't do it
for free, and very few other companies made microchannel adapters.

There is - or was - a group calling itself the "Microchannel Mafia."
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Hello BOB,

22 Oct 18 16:27 at you wrote to FABIO BIZZI:

There is - or was - a group calling itself the "Microchannel Mafia."

Looks like they're still around.

http://www.mcamafia.de/

Later,
Sean

... The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names.
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I'm actually typing this from a PS/2 Model 30 286 :) It's quickly becoming
one of my favourite machines - more bearable than an XT and less bulky than
an AT. Plus VGA!

It doesn't have Microchannel; it was one of the few PS/2 machines to have 16-bit ISA slots onboard. As much as I like Microchannel, it's a pain and expensive to find suitable cards.

My machine has DOS 3.3, a network card and a (replica) Adlib card. Makes a very decent little DOS box.

I say dust it off and put it back in to use :)

Howard

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Hello Howard,

25 Apr 19 17:13 at you wrote to Forest Moore:

It doesn't have Microchannel; it was one of the few PS/2 machines to
have 16-bit ISA slots onboard. As much as I like Microchannel, it's a pain and expensive to find suitable cards.

You've got a rare machine indeed.

I say dust it off and put it back in to use :)

If you ever want to try OS/2, give me a shout. Ran OS/2 from 1996-2010 or thereabouts.

Later,
Sean

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Howard Rose wrote to Forest Moore <=-

I'm actually typing this from a PS/2 Model 30 286 :) It's quickly becoming one of my favourite machines - more bearable than an XT and
less bulky than an AT. Plus VGA!

Nice!

It doesn't have Microchannel; it was one of the few PS/2 machines to
have 16-bit ISA slots onboard. As much as I like Microchannel, it's a pain and expensive to find suitable cards.

My machine has DOS 3.3, a network card and a (replica) Adlib card.
Makes a very decent little DOS box.

I worked in an IBM shop back in 1990-1993. We had System 38 and AS/400
midrange computers, and the IT department had all microchannel PS/2s
running OS/2. Microchannel was nice when you were multitasking or
running the box as a server, but for DOS, ISA is even better.

I say dust it off and put it back in to use :)

Best keyboard ever made - I still have a Model M from that company
that I use.

Howard

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Kurt Weiske wrote to Howard Rose <=-

Best keyboard ever made - I still have a Model M from that company
that I use.

You know that Model Ms are still being made though they're not called that anymore?

Check out https://www.pckeyboard.com/ -- they own the original IBM
technology. I learned to type on a Model M and once I start working again (I've been cleared to return to work now), I want to buy a USB version.

Later,
Sean

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Re: Re: IBM PS/2
By: Sean Dennis to Kurt Weiske on Sun Apr 28 2019 08:35 pm

You know that Model Ms are still being made though they're not called that anymore?

Check out https://www.pckeyboard.com/ -- they own the original IBM technology. I learned to type on a Model M and once I start working again (I've been cleared to return to work now), I want to buy a USB version.

I know Unicomp used to make them, when mine wears out in 2050 I'll look them up.
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Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Best keyboard ever made - I still have a Model M from that company
that I use.

You know that Model Ms are still being made though they're not called
that anymore?

Check out https://www.pckeyboard.com/ -- they own the original IBM technology. I learned to type on a Model M and once I start working
again (I've been cleared to return to work now), I want to buy a USB version.

A good substitute in feel and durability is Keytronics. I scored a PS2 model on
eBay and plugged it into my PS2 to USB adapter. Looks sorta funky with the purple and green PS2 female ends hanging out there for all to see. But it works
a treat.

AFAIK the Model M keyboard is still produced in Lexington, KY - more-
or-less just down the street from the (former?) IBM R&D facility.

... MS-DOS=suit & tie, Macintosh=cool shades, Amiga=high heels & leather

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Hello Kurt,

28 Apr 19 21:03 at you wrote to me:

I know Unicomp used to make them, when mine wears out in 2050 I'll
look them up.

It's the same company. :)

Later,
Sean

... Never have more children than you have car windows. - Erma Bombeck
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Hello Dave,

29 Apr 19 07:05 at you wrote to me:

AFAIK the Model M keyboard is still produced in Lexington, KY - more- or-less just down the street from the (former?) IBM R&D facility.

It is. The company I mentioned is Unicomp at pckeyboard.com -- you can still buy brand new Model Ms in spirit.

Later,
Sean

... Trouble is only opportunity in work clothes. - Henry J. Kaiser
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I know Unicomp used to make them, when mine wears out in 2050 I'll look them up.

It's the same company. :)

I have been toying with picking one of the Unicomp's up over the past year...But I keep seeing conflicting reviews and info about they arrive in pieces requiring reassembly (Which is not an issue, just concerning). Another
I keep coming across is the machining tools making the keys and such are old and creating keys that are wobbly, loose, not always the click effect like
the ones of 20+ years ago.

I know people have huge expectations and will post negative reviews way more than positive. So I am just wondering if anyone on here has picked up a recent Unicomp and what do you think?

Wish I did not toss my 2 old M keyboards away years ago! Argh!!!

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Shane O'Neill wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

I know Unicomp used to make them, when mine wears out in 2050 I'll look them up.

It's the same company. :)

I have been toying with picking one of the Unicomp's up over the past year...But I keep seeing conflicting reviews and info about they arrive
in pieces requiring reassembly (Which is not an issue, just
concerning). Another I keep coming across is the machining tools making the keys and such are old and creating keys that are wobbly, loose, not always the click effect like the ones of 20+ years ago.

I know people have huge expectations and will post negative reviews way more than positive. So I am just wondering if anyone on here has picked
up a recent Unicomp and what do you think?

I've never understood people's desires to stop strangers in the street
and, unsolicited, brag about how badly they were screwed over by (fill
in the blank). Yet they won't tell anyone about a good deal they got.

Wish I did not toss my 2 old M keyboards away years ago! Argh!!!

The Keytronics knock offs work well .... for less money. I'm typing this
on one. My housemate says "It's a cheap Chineee copy". To which I reply
"Wasn't cheap, bub."

Still half or less the price of a Unicomp model M can be considered a
bargain in most places. And it should out live a dozen chicklet models.
... Had a job as a historian. But there was no future in it.
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Sean Dennis wrote to Dave Drum <=-

AFAIK the Model M keyboard is still produced in Lexington, KY - more- or-less just down the street from the (former?) IBM R&D facility.

It is. The company I mentioned is Unicomp at pckeyboard.com -- you can still buy brand new Model Ms in spirit.

IIRC Unicomp is the result of a group of Lexmark suits buying Itty Bitty Machine Co's licence, design and production facilities rather than see production end in favour of the cheaper (in every sense) cheesy Chinese rubber-dome (squishy) examples that the bean counters were dictating.

Back in the mid-1990s if memory serves.


... Had a job as a lumberjack. Couldn't hack it. Got the axe.
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Hello Shane,

30 Apr 19 15:25 at you wrote to me:

Wish I did not toss my 2 old M keyboards away years ago! Argh!!!

I have a model M from 1986 sitting on a shelf that needs a new PS/2 plug.

I've used one of the Unicomp keyboards before and I didn't have any issues with it but I can't vouch for anything else.

Later,
Sean

... You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.
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Hello Dave,

01 May 19 06:54 at you wrote to me:

IIRC Unicomp is the result of a group of Lexmark suits buying Itty
Bitty Machine Co's licence, design and production facilities rather
than see production end in favour of the cheaper (in every sense)
cheesy Chinese rubber-dome (squishy) examples that the bean counters
were dictating.

Back in the mid-1990s if memory serves.

That's what I've heard also but the suits quit Lexmark to run Unicomp. Either way, I'm glad they're still around making keyboards.

Later,
Sean

... All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence then success is sure.
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IIRC Unicomp is the result of a group of Lexmark suits buying Itty Bitty Machine Co's licence, design and production facilities rather than see production end in favour of the cheaper (in every sense) cheesy Chinese rubber-dome (squishy) examples that the bean counters were dictating.

Back in the mid-1990s if memory serves.

IIRC, LexMark was formed in a similar fashion... IBM was ditching the
printer business and another group either took it over, or was spun-out of
IBM.

That was also around 1992-94.

Mike

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Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

IIRC, LexMark was formed in a similar fashion... IBM was ditching the printer business and another group either took it over, or was spun-out
of IBM.

That was also around 1992-94.

I was inventorying equipment at my most recent job, and found a room
with a PS/2 model 80 and an IBM (not Lexmark) 4019 laser printer -
exactly the same combo I started my IT career on in 1991.

Apparently they were keeping it around as a restore target for an old
backup tool they still had in production.

If they had a model M, those clunky IBM mice and an 8514 monitor, I
would have set it up on my desk.



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Re: Re: IBM PS/2
By: Howard Rose to Forest Moore on Thu Apr 25 2019 05:13 pm

I'm actually typing this from a PS/2 Model 30 286 :) It's quickly becoming one of my favourite machines - more bearable than an XT and less bulky than an AT. Plus VGA!

I remember my first IBM PS/2, my father ran a mini-storage place, and when tenants couldn't pay, they tossed stuff out. Well, OUR luck, they had a box FULL of less than 2 year old PC equipment!! I ended up with one of those babies! I maxed the HDD's, RAM, (on TWO systems).. it was great!
Regards,
KrUpTiOn
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