• Ev8dence for Planet Nine

    From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to All on Fri Dec 11 17:15:26 2020


    Original article

    https://scitechdaily.com/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-of-a-real-ninth-plan et/


    Planet Nine – Astronomers Find Evidence of a Real Ninth Planet in Our Solar System
    TOPICS:AstronomyAstrophysicsCalifornia Institute Of TechnologyPlanetary SciencePopular
    By KIMM FESENMAIER, CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY JANUARY 21, 2016

    Astronomers Reveal Evidence of Distant Gas Giant Planet in Our Solar System This artistic rendering shows the distant view from Planet Nine back towards the sun. The planet is thought to be gaseous, similar to Uranus and Neptune. Hypothetical lightning lights up the night side.

    Scientists at the California Institute of Technology have discovered evidence of a giant planet tracing a bizarre, highly elongated orbit in the outer
    solar system.

    The newly discovered object, which the researchers have nicknamed Planet
    Nine, has a mass about 10 times that of Earth and orbits about 20 times
    farther from the sun on average than does Neptune (which orbits the sun at an average distance of 2.8 billion miles). In fact, it would take this new
    planet between 10,000 and 20,000 years to make just one full orbit around the sun.

    The researchers, Konstantin Batygin and Mike Brown, discovered the planet’s existence through mathematical modeling and computer simulations but have not yet observed the object directly.

    “This would be a real ninth planet,” says Brown, the Richard and Barbara Rosenberg Professor of Planetary Astronomy. “There have only been two true planets discovered since ancient times, and this would be a third. It’s a pretty substantial chunk of our solar system that’s still out there to be found, which is pretty exciting.”

    Brown notes that the putative ninth planet—at 5,000 times the mass of Pluto—is sufficiently large that there should be no debate about whether it is a true planet. Unlike the class of smaller objects now known as dwarf planets, Planet Nine gravitationally dominates its neighborhood of the solar system. In fact, it dominates a region larger than any of the other known planets—a fact that Brown says makes it “the most planet-y of the planets in the whole solar system.”

    Batygin and Brown describe their work in the current issue of the
    Astronomical Journal and show how Planet Nine helps explain a number of mysterious features of the field of icy objects and debris beyond Neptune
    known as the Kuiper Belt.

    “Although we were initially quite skeptical that this planet could exist,
    as we continued to investigate its orbit and what it would mean for the outer solar system, we become increasingly convinced that it is out there,” says Batygin, an assistant professor of planetary science. “For the first time
    in over 150 years, there is solid evidence that the solar system’s
    planetary census is incomplete.”

    New Evidence of a Distant Gas Giant Planet in Our Solar System
    The six most distant known objects in the solar system with orbits
    exclusively beyond Neptune (magenta) all mysteriously line up in a single direction. Also, when viewed in three dimensions, they tilt nearly
    identically away from the plane of the solar system. Batygin and Brown show that a planet with 10 times the mass of the earth in a distant eccentric
    orbit anti-aligned with the other six objects (orange) is required to
    maintain this configuration.

    The road to the theoretical discovery was not straightforward. In 2014, a former postdoc of Brown’s, Chad Trujillo, and his colleague Scott Sheppard published a paper noting that 13 of the most distant objects in the Kuiper
    Belt are similar with respect to an obscure orbital feature. To explain that similarity, they suggested the possible presence of a small planet. Brown thought the planet solution was unlikely, but his interest was piqued.

    He took the problem down the hall to Batygin, and the two started what became
    a year-and-a-half-long collaboration to investigate the distant objects. As
    an observer and a theorist, respectively, the researchers approached the work from very different perspectives—Brown as someone who looks at the sky and tries to anchor everything in the context of what can be seen, and Batygin as someone who puts himself within the context of dynamics, considering how
    things might work from a physics standpoint. Those differences allowed the researchers to challenge each other’s ideas and to consider new possibilities. “I would bring in some of these observational aspects; he would come back with arguments from theory, and we would push each other. I don’t think the discovery would have happened without that back and
    forth,” says Brown. ” It was perhaps the most fun year of working on a problem in the solar system that I’ve ever had.”

    Fairly quickly Batygin and Brown realized that the six most distant objects from Trujillo and Sheppard’s original collection all follow elliptical
    orbits that point in the same direction in physical space. That is
    particularly surprising because the outermost points of their orbits move around the solar system, and they travel at different rates.

    “It’s almost like having six hands on a clock all moving at different rates, and when you happen to look up, they’re all in exactly the same place,” says Brown. The odds of having that happen are something like 1 in 100, he says. But on top of that, the orbits of the six objects are also all tilted in the same way—pointing about 30 degrees downward in the same direction relative to the plane of the eight known planets. The probability
    of that happening is about 0.007 percent. “Basically it shouldn’t happen randomly,” Brown says. “So we thought something else must be shaping
    these orbits.”


    Caltech’s Konstantin Batygin, an assistant professor of planetary science, and Mike Brown, the Richard and Barbara Rosenberg Professor of Planetary Astronomy, discuss new research that provides evidence of a giant planet tracing a bizarre, highly elongated orbit in the outer solar system.

    The first possibility they investigated was that perhaps there are enough distant Kuiper Belt objects—some of which have not yet been discovered—to exert the gravity needed to keep that subpopulation clustered together. The researchers quickly ruled this out when it turned out that such a scenario would require the Kuiper Belt to have about 100 times the mass it has today.

    That left them with the idea of a planet. Their first instinct was to run simulations involving a planet in a distant orbit that encircled the orbits
    of the six Kuiper Belt objects, acting like a giant lasso to wrangle them
    into their alignment. Batygin says that almost works but does not provide the observed eccentricities precisely. “Close, but no cigar,” he says.

    Then, effectively by accident, Batygin and Brown noticed that if they ran
    their simulations with a massive planet in an anti-aligned orbit—an orbit
    in which the planet’s closest approach to the sun, or perihelion, is 180 degrees across from the perihelion of all the other objects and known planets—the distant Kuiper Belt objects in the simulation assumed the alignment that is actually observed.

    “Your natural response is ‘This orbital geometry can’t be right. This can’t be stable over the long term because, after all, this would cause the planet and these objects to meet and eventually collide,'” says Batygin.
    But through a mechanism known as mean-motion resonance, the anti-aligned
    orbit of the ninth planet actually prevents the Kuiper Belt objects from colliding with it and keeps them aligned. As orbiting objects approach each other they exchange energy. So, for example, for every four orbits Planet
    Nine makes, a distant Kuiper Belt object might complete nine orbits. They
    never collide. Instead, like a parent maintaining the arc of a child on a
    swing with periodic pushes, Planet Nine nudges the orbits of distant Kuiper Belt objects such that their configuration with relation to the planet is preserved.

    “Still, I was very skeptical,” says Batygin. “I had never seen anything like this in celestial mechanics.”

    But little by little, as the researchers investigated additional features and consequences of the model, they became persuaded. “A good theory should not only explain things that you set out to explain. It should hopefully explain things that you didn’t set out to explain and make predictions that are testable,” says Batygin.

    And indeed Planet Nine’s existence helps explain more than just the
    alignment of the distant Kuiper Belt objects. It also provides an explanation for the mysterious orbits that two of them trace. The first of those objects, dubbed Sedna, was discovered by Brown in 2003. Unlike standard-variety Kuiper Belt objects, which get gravitationally “kicked out” by Neptune and then return back to it, Sedna never gets very close to Neptune. A second object
    like Sedna, known as 2012 VP113, was announced by Trujillo and Sheppard in 2014. Batygin and Brown found that the presence of Planet Nine in its
    proposed orbit naturally produces Sedna-like objects by taking a standard Kuiper Belt object and slowly pulling it away into an orbit less connected to Neptune.

    But the real kicker for the researchers was the fact that their simulations also predicted that there would be objects in the Kuiper Belt on orbits inclined perpendicularly to the plane of the planets. Batygin kept finding evidence for these in his simulations and took them to Brown. “Suddenly I realized there are objects like that,” recalls Brown. In the last three years, observers have identified four objects tracing orbits roughly along
    one perpendicular line from Neptune and one object along another. “We
    plotted up the positions of those objects and their orbits, and they matched the simulations exactly,” says Brown. “When we found that, my jaw sort of hit the floor.”

    “When the simulation aligned the distant Kuiper Belt objects and created objects like Sedna, we thought this is kind of awesome—you kill two birds with one stone,” says Batygin. “But with the existence of the planet also explaining these perpendicular orbits, not only do you kill two birds, you
    also take down a bird that you didn’t realize was sitting in a nearby tree.”

    Where did Planet Nine come from and how did it end up in the outer solar system? Scientists have long believed that the early solar system began with four planetary cores that went on to grab all of the gas around them, forming the four gas planets—Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Over time, collisions and ejections shaped them and moved them out to their present locations. “But there is no reason that there could not have been five
    cores, rather than four,” says Brown. Planet Nine could represent that
    fifth core, and if it got too close to Jupiter or Saturn, it could have been ejected into its distant, eccentric orbit.

    Batygin and Brown continue to refine their simulations and learn more about
    the planet’s orbit and its influence on the distant solar system.
    Meanwhile, Brown and other colleagues have begun searching the skies for
    Planet Nine. Only the planet’s rough orbit is known, not the precise
    location of the planet on that elliptical path. If the planet happens to be close to its perihelion, Brown says, astronomers should be able to spot it in images captured by previous surveys. If it is in the most distant part of its orbit, the world’s largest telescopes—such as the twin 10-meter
    telescopes at the W. M. Keck Observatory and the Subaru Telescope, all on
    Mauna Kea in Hawaii—will be needed to see it. If, however, Planet Nine is
    now located anywhere in between, many telescopes have a shot at finding it.

    “I would love to find it,” says Brown. “But I’d also be perfectly
    happy if someone else found it. That is why we’re publishing this paper. We hope that other people are going to get inspired and start searching.”

    In terms of understanding more about the solar system’s context in the rest of the universe, Batygin says that in a couple of ways, this ninth planet
    that seems like such an oddball to us would actually make our solar system
    more similar to the other planetary systems that astronomers are finding
    around other stars. First, most of the planets around other sunlike stars
    have no single orbital range—that is, some orbit extremely close to their host stars while others follow exceptionally distant orbits. Second, the most common planets around other stars range between 1 and 10 Earth-masses.

    “One of the most startling discoveries about other planetary systems has
    been that the most common type of planet out there has a mass between that of Earth and that of Neptune,” says Batygin. “Until now, we’ve thought
    that the solar system was lacking in this most common type of planet. Maybe we’re more normal after all.”

    Brown, well known for the significant role he played in the demotion of Pluto from a planet to a dwarf planet adds, “All those people who are mad that Pluto is no longer a planet can be thrilled to know that there is a real
    planet out there still to be found,” he says. “Now we can go and find
    this planet and make the solar system have nine planets once again.”

    The paper is titled “Evidence for a Distant Giant Planet in the Solar System.”

    Publication: Konstantin Batygin and Michael E. Brown, “Evidence for a
    Distant Giant Planet in the Solar System,” Astronomical Journal, 2016; DOI: 10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/22

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Charles Pierson on Sat Dec 12 21:18:00 2020
    On 12-11-20 17:15, Charles Pierson wrote to All <=-



    Original article

    https://scitechdaily.com/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-of-a-real-nin th-plan
    et/

    Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we need is for someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.


    ... "Mount your horses, men!!" "We're not that lonely, sir!!"
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  • From Charles Pierson@chuck.pierson@gmail.com to Tony Langdon on Sat Dec 12 11:41:12 2020
    Hello, Tony Langdon.
    On 12/12/20 4:18 AM you wrote:

    On 12-11-20 17:15, Charles Pierson wrote to All <=- CP> Original
    article CP>
    https://scitechdaily.
    com/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-of-a-real-nin CP> th-plan CP>
    et/ Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we
    need is for someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.

    That would be nice. Of course there's a lot of area to search.

    --
    Best regards!
    Posted using Hotdoged on Android
  • From August Abolins@2:221/6 to Tony Langdon on Mon Dec 14 05:08:16 2020
    On 12/12/2020 2:18 PM, between "Tony Langdon - Charles Pierson":

    https://scitechdaily.com/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-of-a-real-nin th-plan
    et/

    Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we need is for someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.


    And /then/ what?

    ---
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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Charles Pierson on Mon Dec 14 18:27:00 2020
    On 12-12-20 11:41, Charles Pierson wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    That would be nice. Of course there's a lot of area to search.

    It should be possible to narrow things a bit by looking at the orbits of objects the planet has affected.


    ... All right who's been cooking hot dogs in the Warp Drive?
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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Mon Dec 14 18:29:00 2020
    On 12-14-20 05:08, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we need is for someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.


    And /then/ what?

    Maybe one day send a probe, though given the distance, I'm unlikely to see the data from it in my lifetime.


    ... A)bort R)etry T)ake an axe to it?
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  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Tony Langdon on Mon Dec 14 12:38:25 2020
    On 14 Dec 2020, Tony Langdon said the following...

    On 12-12-20 11:41, Charles Pierson wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    That would be nice. Of course there's a lot of area to search.

    It should be possible to narrow things a bit by looking at the orbits of objects the planet has affected.

    True, but with the number of years involved for it's orbit, that still is a
    lot of calculation and luck.

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Charles Pierson on Tue Dec 15 14:03:00 2020
    On 12-14-20 12:38, Charles Pierson wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    It should be possible to narrow things a bit by looking at the orbits of objects the planet has affected.

    True, but with the number of years involved for it's orbit, that still
    is a lot of calculation and luck.

    True, but that's still a LOT less than searching the entire sky.


    ... I'm frequently appalled by the low regard you Earthmen have for life.
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  • From August Abolins@2:221/6 to Tony Langdon on Tue Dec 15 14:48:10 2020
    On 12/14/2020 11:29 AM, between "Tony Langdon - August Abolins":

    Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we need is for someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.


    And /then/ what?

    Maybe one day send a probe, though given the distance, I'm unlikely to see the
    data from it in my lifetime.

    But what's the point. There are far more important things to pay for, to study, and solve on our existing planet. A researcher's life/work seems to be too cushy imho.

    ---
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  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to August Abolins on Tue Dec 15 13:46:50 2020
    On 15 Dec 2020, August Abolins said the following...
    Interesting, and the evidence looks compelling. Now, all we need is someone to be able to find the planet with a telescope.


    And /then/ what?

    Maybe one day send a probe, though given the distance, I'm unlikely to s
    the
    data from it in my lifetime.

    But what's the point. There are far more important things to pay for, to study,
    and solve on our existing planet. A researcher's life/work seems to be
    too cushy imho.


    And a writer or book seller's life isn't?

    It comes down basically to resources. We have ~7 billion people on this
    planet. There is only so much space available. There is only so much food, water, etc to go around.

    It's highly unlikely the world will or even should come to an agreement on population control. That would undoubtedly get into the whole messy subject
    of Eugenics.

    So that basically leaves two options: underwater, and extraterrestrial.

    Both are valid areas of study to research ways to find ways to generate more resources for the ever growing population, and developing more room for
    people to live.

    Understanding how our solar system developed, and how the various solar
    bodies affect each other, helps to figure out where to focus our reasearch towards where in the solar system we have the best chance of being able to develope those things.

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  • From August Abolins@2:221/6 to Charles Pierson on Wed Dec 16 03:15:28 2020
    On 12/15/2020 6:46 AM, between "Charles Pierson - August Abolins":

    But what's the point. There are far more important things to pay for, to study,
    and solve on our existing planet. A researcher's life/work seems to be too cushy imho.


    And a writer or book seller's life isn't?

    With no employees, and operating 7 days a week, it is *not* very cushy at all. People are astonished that I am even able to accomplish what I need to do totally on my own. I am sure researchers have holidays, sick days, vacations, etc. That seems very cushy by comparison.


    It comes down basically to resources. We have ~7 billion people on this planet. There is only so much space available. There is only so much food, water, etc to go around.

    Desalination for water. Yay! Kelp/algea for food! Yum.


    It's highly unlikely the world will or even should come to an agreement on population control. That would undoubtedly get into the whole messy subject of Eugenics.

    It is probably already being controlled by subtle means: financial or medical.


    So that basically leaves two options: underwater, and extraterrestrial.

    Both are valid areas of study to research ways to find ways to generate more resources for the ever growing population, and developing more room for people to live.

    Re: underwater. Even with that you would have to maintain the structures against corrosion and other decay.

    Re: extraterrestrial. Again, maintenance of the "ship" that bears the poor souls to their destiny could be a problem. But then why does an ET destination have to be some planet 9 that is not even visible? Why can't the moon be a consideration for building the first ET colonies?


    Understanding how our solar system developed, and how the various solar bodies affect each other, helps to figure out where to focus our reasearch towards where in the solar system we have the best chance of being able to develope those things.

    It seems that after every "new discovery" there are no real answers. It just becomes another excuse to build yet another probe with different equipment to test for a different specific thing.

    ---
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  • From Charles Pierson@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 16 03:06:10 2020
    On 16 Dec 2020, August Abolins said the following...
    But what's the point. There are far more important things to pay fo study,
    and solve on our existing planet. A researcher's life/work seems to too cushy imho.


    And a writer or book seller's life isn't?

    With no employees, and operating 7 days a week, it is *not* very cushy
    at all.

    People are astonished that I am even able to accomplish what I need to
    do totally on my own. I am sure researchers have holidays, sick days, vacations, etc. That seems very cushy by comparison.


    I'm not making light of your job. It's all a matter of perception.

    One of my brothers opened a "craft beer and eatery" 3 years ago. He had 2 partners at the time. I don't think either is involved anymore, judging by
    the change in menu.It's open 6 days a week. He also does a lot of social
    media promotion of other local food establishments, and since the whole Covid situation, he's brought lunches to different hospitals, clinics, testing stations for the Staff.

    The average person would think he was living his dream. I know how hard he works to manage all of that and his family.

    I may not know everything involved in research science, but it's doubtful
    that it's all cushy either.

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 16 18:07:00 2020
    On 12-15-20 14:48, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    But what's the point. There are far more important things to pay for,
    to study, and solve on our existing planet. A researcher's life/work
    seems to be too cushy imho.

    Same as why people climb mountains - because it's there. :) I don't buy utilitarian arguments, they don't allow for the expression of curiosity. What's next, not putting money into the arts?


    ... (Oh no, (I'm nesting (parentheses) again...) help!)
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