• Re: ..the End of Targeted

    From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Ogg on Mon Feb 20 14:57:00 2023
    This Privacy Ruling Against Facebook and Instagram Could Spell the End of Targeted Ads

    Man, this is actually something I'm not a huge fan of. Sure, targeted ads and feeling as though you're being spied on is lame. Totally. I get it. But facebook is an opt-in platform. It's not a public utility like a library, it's a business. I don't see how any government can force a business to give away access to a commercial platform for free.

    So what's any company that relies on ad revenue to give away services supposed to do? Charge for accounts? I guess?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Tue Feb 21 11:39:39 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to Ogg on Mon Feb 20 2023 02:57 pm

    So what's any company that relies on ad revenue to give away services supposed to do? Charge

    I have heard Facebook was rolling a paid account system. I guess they were anticipating that.

    People seems to be very happy when some new regulation screws me over, so while I don't agree
    (in principle) with these sort of regulations, I am ready to go out the street with a whiskey
    bottle and celebrate.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Tue Feb 21 11:46:15 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Mon Feb 20 2023 11:27 pm

    i would prefer they not target people and follow us around everywhere. if ending targetted ads does that, that would be nice.

    Eh, it's an opt-in service. I'm not all about having the government regulate online services

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M

    The left 2020: "It is ok for Amazon and Google and Apple to collude and destroy Parler. It is
    the market taking care of itself."

    The left 2023: "It is not ok for governments to interfere with legic private business such as
    Facebook and destroy their revenew model".

    This is not the left I remember. Leftists destroyed the left.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 12:16:49 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: Arelor to esc on Tue Feb 21 2023 11:39 am

    I have heard Facebook was rolling a paid account system. I guess they were anticipating that.

    Interestingly, Twitter turned off SMS MFA on my account, as it's only available to TWITTER BLUE subscribers. TOTP through Google Auth, which is better, is *free*. Odd.
    ---
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 19:00:00 2023
    I have heard Facebook was rolling a paid account system. I guess they
    were anticipating that.

    Yeah, saw that. I don't think it would supplant the ads revenue, though. Guess we'll see :/

    People seems to be very happy when some new regulation screws me over,
    so while I don't agree
    (in principle) with these sort of regulations, I am ready to go out the street with a whiskey
    bottle and celebrate.

    Interesting perspective

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 19:02:00 2023
    The left 2020: "It is ok for Amazon and Google and Apple to collude and destroy Parler. It is
    the market taking care of itself."

    Nobody owes a platform to anyone else. Someone wants to make a right wing cesspool? Good luck getting some company to host it.

    Yes, this is the market taking care of itself.

    The left 2023: "It is not ok for governments to interfere with legic private business such as
    Facebook and destroy their revenew model".

    Correct. For an opt-in service that they host themselves.

    I don't see what's controversial here. Sounds like some hurt feelings going on?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From Cougar428@VERT/CJSPLACE to ARELOR on Wed Feb 22 07:56:00 2023
    Quoting Arelor to Esc <=-

    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Mon Feb 20 2023 11:27 pm

    The left 2020: "It is ok for Amazon and Google and Apple to collude
    and destroy Parler. It is the market taking care of itself."

    The left 2023: "It is not ok for governments to interfere with legic private business such as Facebook and destroy their revenew model".

    This is not the left I remember. Leftists destroyed the left.

    You leftist you...

    Just kidding!

    Cougar

    ... Danger, Arelor! Off-topic messages! Danger!

    ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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  • From Cougar428@VERT/CJSPLACE to ESC on Wed Feb 22 08:09:00 2023
    Quoting Esc to Arelor <=-

    The left 2020: "It is ok for Amazon and Google and Apple to collude and destroy Parler. It is
    the market taking care of itself."

    Nobody owes a platform to anyone else. Someone wants to make a right
    wing cesspool? Good luck getting some company to host it.

    Tell us what you really think of conservatives...

    The left 2023: "It is not ok for governments to interfere with legic private business such as
    Facebook and destroy their revenew model".

    Correct. For an opt-in service that they host themselves.

    I don't see what's controversial here. Sounds like some hurt feelings going on?

    Yours? Or Arelors...


    ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Feb 22 14:10:00 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 2023 12:16 pm

    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: Arelor to esc on Tue Feb 21 2023 11:39 am

    I have heard Facebook was rolling a paid account system. I guess they we anticipating that.

    Interestingly, Twitter turned off SMS MFA on my account, as it's only availa ---
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

    TOTP is theoretically safer than SMS verification, but for practical purposes, it is more of a headache. I think the average granny is more likely to set SMS auth than TOPT, and is she sets TOTP, she is more likely to lose her acess tokens and suffer.

    WHat is better nowadays is not what is "better". It is what is easier, and they play with that.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Wed Feb 22 14:16:26 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 2023 07:00 pm

    People seems to be very happy when some new regulation screws me over, so while I don't agree
    (in principle) with these sort of regulations, I am ready to go out the street with a whiskey
    bottle and celebrate.

    Interesting perspective


    I certainly got burned from being in politics. It is all theatre.

    Maybe your political party has protecting group A from group B (which is really, really messing up with group A). Group A is attacked one day by group B, you release an statement in support of A, condemn the attack, phone the representatives of group A to show them support...

    ... and group A tells you to eat shit and die because you are a fascist communist (what usually happens is some other political party has bought them)

    What happens the next time they attack A is you watch it in the news while having some Quarter Horse bourbon and thinking assholes who hate you don t deserve your help.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Wed Feb 22 14:18:59 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to Arelor on Tue Feb 21 2023 07:02 pm

    The left 2020: "It is ok for Amazon and Google and Apple to collude and destroy Parler. It is
    the market taking care of itself."

    Nobody owes a platform to anyone else. Someone wants to make a right wing ce

    Yes, this is the market taking care of itself.

    The left 2023: "It is not ok for governments to interfere with legic private business such as
    Facebook and destroy their revenew model".

    Correct. For an opt-in service that they host themselves.

    I don't see what's controversial here. Sounds like some hurt feelings going

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M

    Hurt feelings? For what?

    The left used to be anti-corporativist and I kind of miss those times. Right now it looks like they are ready to be pro-corporativists as long as the particular evil corporation in question is cool enough.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Wed Feb 22 14:51:55 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Tue Feb 21 2023 07:04 pm

    but if it was spreading disinformation about covid you wanted action taken, right?

    Facebook stopped the spread of covid disinformation themselves. The governme

    Just like nobody was willing to host Parler. Free market, baby!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M

    Well, Facebook being blocked from delivering targetted ads is our Governments protecting us from the abuse of an evil corporation. That used to be a Good Thing for the Das Kapital brigade.

    I have already ran into some people who thinks Government should prevent abusive corporative behavior that is not very different from Facebook s here, but somehow Facebook gets a free pass? They cannot have it both ways. If governments should interfere to prevent abusive prices for phone subscriptions (which are opt-in) then you cannot defend Facebook is a legit company being victimized by the evil governments of doom.

    I mean, the real school lefties had principles. The Sex Pistols dude got bankrupt tryig to prevent Disney from using his stuff because he didn t want Sex Pistols to belong to (and I quote) Mickey Fucking Mouse.


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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Cougar428 on Wed Feb 22 18:48:00 2023
    Tell us what you really think of conservatives...

    I mean, he mentioned Parler, which was a pretty fringe right thing...

    I don't see what's controversial here. Sounds like some hurt feelings going on?

    Yours? Or Arelors...

    I don't have feelings, I'm a sociopath, so we're good ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Wed Feb 22 18:49:00 2023
    Maybe your political party has protecting group A from group B (which is really, really messing up with group A). Group A is attacked one day by group B, you release an statement in support of A, condemn the attack, phone the representatives of group A to show them support...

    ... and group A tells you to eat shit and die because you are a fascist communist (what usually happens is some other political party has bought them)

    You're in Spain, I think? Correct me if I'm wrong. But man if those two paragraphs don't sum up the way I feel about politics in the US these days. ugh...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Wed Feb 22 18:51:00 2023
    The left used to be anti-corporativist and I kind of miss those times. Right now it looks like they are ready to be pro-corporativists as long
    as the particular evil corporation in question is cool enough.

    There are some anti-corporate punks still hanging around on the left! :P

    But yeah I'm the only one giving my employer honest feedback, so you're probably right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Wed Feb 22 18:56:00 2023
    Well, Facebook being blocked from delivering targetted ads is our Governments protecting us from the abuse of an evil corporation. That
    used to be a Good Thing for the Das Kapital brigade.

    I'm very leery of the government deciding that protecting people like this eventually turns into the government regulating what people can talk about. I'd much rather a company try to make what they believe to be the right moral/ethical/business decision where we can debate it in the court of public opinion, but as soon as a government gets involved, I get a bit dismayed.

    I have already ran into some people who thinks Government should prevent abusive corporative behavior that is not very different from Facebook s here, but somehow Facebook gets a free pass? They cannot have it both ways. If governments should interfere to prevent abusive prices for
    phone subscriptions (which are opt-in) then you cannot defend Facebook
    is a legit company being victimized by the evil governments of doom.

    Interesting perspective, but a phone is basically a critical need in this day and age, similar to medicine, food, etc., much of which the government has a say in regulating. I reject the notion that Facebook is a vital utility like having a phone, but agree to disagree I suppose.

    I mean, the real school lefties had principles. The Sex Pistols dude got bankrupt tryig to prevent Disney from using his stuff because he didn t want Sex Pistols to belong to (and I quote) Mickey Fucking Mouse.

    I mean...he's like, one person, who is pretty fringe on the left. Can't expect everyone with liberal values to go to that extreme.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Thu Feb 23 06:38:04 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to Arelor on Wed Feb 22 2023 06:56 pm

    abusive corporative behavior that is not very different from Facebook s here, but somehow Facebook gets a free pass? They cannot have it both ways. If governments should interfere to prevent abusive prices for phone subscriptions (which are opt-in) then you cannot defend Facebook is a legit company being victimized by the evil governments of doom.

    Interesting perspective, but a phone is basically a critical need in this da ee to disagree I suppose.


    Phone isn't critical for a whole lot of people, and online presence is critical for a number of job positions.

    If I were a positive rights proponent, it would be inconsistent for me to defend I am entitled to a phone line because I use it to talk to friends but I am not entitled to online pressence (which I use to make a living).

    If I belonged to the Das Kapital brigade my next step would be to equate online presence to phone ussage. Keep in mind Internet access is classified as a human right around here. Since online presence would be a right then the government, aka The People, has the duty to ensure online presence providers act in the best interests of the common folks, and if they don't outright seize them.

    Let's be clear about this. Facebooks business model is shady as fuck. It consits of offering free services to people who does not read the contract and knows not what the hell they are signing in for. The tech people here knows but most people has no fucking clue. When it happens with a finantial institution selling finantial products to grandpas who don't know better, people screams bloody murder, but why would Facebook get a pass? Hell, it is so broken that even free market capitalists would think twice before declaring Facebook to be clean wheat.

    So yeah, Facebook has the right to operate their current business model, no matter I dislike it -that is what freedom lovers do: recognize other people's right to do things we dislike- but it is so borderline evil that rightwingers should be wery and left-wingers should put it in their hatelist right now.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Thu Feb 23 06:39:12 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to Arelor on Wed Feb 22 2023 06:56 pm

    want Sex Pistols to belong to (and I quote) Mickey Fucking Mouse.

    I mean...he's like, one person, who is pretty fringe on the left. Can't expe

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M

    Maybe, but if you adopt an anti-corporation lifestyle and then jump to defend corporate interests you are not very consistent.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Thu Feb 23 06:42:54 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Wed Feb 22 2023 07:06 pm

    If you disagree with fact checkers, or think they're up to no good, maybe en

    I don't know about US so-called fact-checkers, but Spanish ones I know of has some shady ties with government and corporate power. I would not think they
    are more trustworthy than your regular government or corporate sponsored newsoutlet - because if you pull the string, they happen to be the same people, or the manager is the wife of some politician or newsmaster.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Thu Feb 23 07:30:20 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Thu Feb 23 2023 12:25 am

    Yes, they did. Who do you think works there? The people Facebook hires are t
    writing lines of code like you seem to think.


    export BERNY_SANDERS_MODE="True"

    Facebooks biggest succeess, it seems, is to exist as a conventional corporation while making everybody believe they are something else.

    Facebook is a company traded in public exchanges with an absurd price-to-book ratio. What that means is they tricked a whole lot of people into buying shares of their company for a price way higher than the company is worth. Facebook is a heavily overcapitalized company owned by capitalist powers who will be forced to squeeze it dry in order to see returns for their overinvestments.

    I don't care how good the employees are. The power Capital has is they can take good people and abuse them and enslave them and make them work torwards the Capital's goals instead of the worker's. Facebook is no difference at a fundamental level. It is owned by the Capital and workers' output is taken and used as the Capital sees fit.

    Facebook may protray itself as a worker and humanist friendly organization, but when they market themselves as a Good Entity they are just acting as somebody who takes a turd and wraps it in colorful papers, trying it with a nice gift ribbon. They are trying to make something awful look great by selling it as a great thing, but at a fundamental level they are just a turd.

    The saddest part is when the workers themselves get to see the colorful gift-wrap and the ribbon and rush to attack anybody who denounces it is just a well marketed turd. Indeed, Facebook's Capitalist masters have managed to get the enslaved class to defend their Capitalist interests. It is the slave defending Blackrock and Vanguard as they squeeze them dry. It is disgusting.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Thu Feb 23 06:35:00 2023
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    TOTP is theoretically safer than SMS verification, but for practical purposes, it is more of a headache. I think the average granny is more likely to set SMS auth than TOPT, and is she sets TOTP, she is more
    likely to lose her acess tokens and suffer.

    Granny is NEVER going to set up TOTP. I think that's what Elon is
    banking on.




    ... Do nothing for as long as possible
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Lmorchard@VERT/DECAFBAD to esc on Thu Feb 23 19:05:04 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Thu Feb 23 2023 12:25 am

    Yes, they did. Who do you think works there? The people Facebook hires are those smart college kids that want to "make the world a better place". Their entire pitch and mission with recruiting is connecting people. There aren't these evil boogeymen people writing lines of code like you seem to think.

    FWIW, I know folks who work at Facebook. That is the pitch, yes, and why most of them joined up. But most of them aren't in charge. A lot of them are *trying* to do good work there. But, the money comes from connecting people so that they stick around to generate classifying data & provide attention worth renting out to advertisers.

    Not "evil boogeymen people" so much as folks paid very well to implement the company's objectives while trying to good where they can. A lot of folks I know who've stayed there think that it's a good trade to provide a communication service for "free" rather than having it only be available to folks who can afford to pay. I see their point, but don't personally think the surveilance ends up being a good trade.

    ---
    Synchronet 0xDECAFBAD - bbs.decafbad.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Arelor on Thu Feb 23 19:21:00 2023
    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Thursday 23.02.23 - 07:30, Arelor wrote to esc:

    I don't care how good the employees are. The power Capital has is they can take good people and abuse them and enslave them and make them work torwards the Capital's goals instead of the worker's. Facebook is no difference at a fundamental level. It is owned by the Capital and workers' output is taken and used as the Capital sees fit.

    Sounds like what China is doing to its workers.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Fri Feb 24 12:52:48 2023
    Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: Ogg to Arelor on Thu Feb 23 2023 07:21 pm

    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Thursday 23.02.23 - 07:30, Arelor wrote to esc:

    I don't care how good the employees are. The power Capital has is they c take good people and abuse them and enslave them and make them work torwards the Capital's goals instead of the worker's. Facebook is no difference at a fundamental level. It is owned by the Capital and worker output is taken and used as the Capital sees fit.

    Sounds like what China is doing to its workers.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTT

    That must be because China is Capitalist. If it was Communist instead, people in China would be free and they would all smoke weed and live happy ever after in a world full of free stuff.

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  • From Brokenmind@VERT/TIABBS to esc on Fri Feb 24 22:13:20 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: esc to MRO on Thu Feb 23 2023 12:25 am

    they did all this stuff because they cared?
    Yes, they did. Who do you think works there? The people Facebook hires are those smart college kids that want to "make the world a better place". Their entire pitch and mission with recruiting is connecting people. There aren't these evil boogeymen people writing lines of code like you seem to think.

    Yes smart indoctrinated college kids i'm sure.... I'm not going to say they are all like this but for some of the stuff Facebook , Twitter , Youtube and other Social Media Platforms have been doing....
    all indoctrinated but i'm sure a lot of them are.

    BrokenMind

    ---
    Synchronet
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to esc on Thu Mar 2 22:55:00 2023
    Hello esc!

    ** On Monday 20.02.23 - 14:57, esc wrote to Ogg:

    This Privacy Ruling Against Facebook and Instagram Could
    Spell the End of Targeted Ads

    Man, this is actually something I'm not a huge fan of.
    Sure, targeted ads and feeling as though you're being spied
    on is lame. Totally. I get it. But facebook is an opt-in
    platform. It's not a public utility like a library, it's a
    business. I don't see how any government can force a
    business to give away access to a commercial platform for
    free.

    One of the problems is that they use your activity data even
    when you are not using FB. I've logged into FB for a few
    minutes, check for some messages and then leave. But when I'd
    visit another website, "targetted ads" based on what I was
    reading on FB appear as ads on that other website! So,
    clearly, FB is distributing my user activity/content info to
    other parties.

    The same ads would follow me when I visit other news sites, for
    example.


    So what's any company that relies on ad revenue to give
    away services supposed to do? Charge for accounts? I guess?

    I can live without FB, so I don't care what they do. I just
    drop by to see if there are any new postings from friends. I
    don't contribute content myself.

    Maybe they could provide the option to turn OFF the
    presentation of ads if I don't want to see them, meanwhile,
    they could still collect and analyse my activity on FB.

    But I don't like the way the ads keep following me from site to
    site.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Fri Mar 3 06:19:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to esc <=-

    One of the problems is that they use your activity data even
    when you are not using FB. I've logged into FB for a few
    minutes, check for some messages and then leave. But when I'd
    visit another website, "targetted ads" based on what I was
    reading on FB appear as ads on that other website! So,
    clearly, FB is distributing my user activity/content info to
    other parties.

    I've seen people talking about a containerized browser for Facebook,
    don't know if incognito mode would work. The mere fact that people need
    to create a workaround to your company's privacy overreaches is a
    serious issue that reflects the fact that you are their product, not
    their customer.




    ... Curious ideas wait for stranger times
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Lmorchard@VERT/DECAFBAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Mar 4 02:10:36 2023
    Re: Re: ..the End of Targeted
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Fri Mar 03 2023 06:19 am

    I've seen people talking about a containerized browser for Facebook,
    don't know if incognito mode would work. The mere fact that people need
    to create a workaround to your company's privacy overreaches is a
    serious issue that reflects the fact that you are their product, not
    their customer.

    There is the "Facebook Container" add-on for Firefox:

    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-container/

    That does a good job of trying to isolate everything Facebook-related, including cookies and the trackers in embedded share buttons on other sites.

    They do have kind of an insidious octopus of a service spread all around. Sounds like tinfoil hat territory to accurately describe what they do.

    ---
    Synchronet 0xDECAFBAD - bbs.decafbad.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Lmorchard on Sat Mar 4 08:01:00 2023
    Lmorchard wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    They do have kind of an insidious octopus of a service spread all
    around. Sounds like tinfoil hat territory to accurately describe what
    they do.

    I especially bristled at them using Facebook for auth -- making it even
    harder for people to disconnect from Facebook when other sites rely on
    FB to authenticate you.

    Spotify, at one point early on, required Facebook auth. They changed
    after a while to allow other 3rd party auth like Google as well as email.




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