• Re: Neuralink

    From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 10:17:09 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Dennisk on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:03 am

    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve real world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or saw in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and poverty in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    HusTler

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism and all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in the history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology there is the prospect of making this happen.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 10:32:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:13 pm

    Would you be the first to volunteer to have your free will removed?

    I don't think it would be that bad. You'd live a life of willful ignorance in a world with no human caused suffering. If it's a world like 1984, then no... because life would be miserable and I would have neither free will nor any rights. If it's the benevolant scientific dictatorship depicted in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, where people are brain-washed and heavily conditioned at an early age, but live pleasent lives, then yes... sign me up!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 10:54:49 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:26 pm

    But, did you finish the story to the end?

    Also, do not forget that BNW (along with 1984) is just a story. Fiction.
    It is just one man's imagined world... "What if.." In other words, life does NOT have to be like that. They are not proclamations on ideal societies. Someone who considers themselves "unequal" (and better) would want to be in charge of the masses. How equal is that?

    Of course I finished the story... it's been a while but I remember the "savage" topping himself because he was unable to live in a world which is as structured and conditioned as this.

    These stories are not proclamations on ideal societies, however they are depictions of how things would appear should there be a concerted effort to socially engineer much of the populous. There's no denying it, life has changed substantially over the last fifty years... we are heading down the path of government decree.

    Anyone who wishes to control the direction of humanity is not a person who would consider him/herself equal to the masses. Unless there's a powerful AI in charge of all human resource allocation, there will be inequality. Even in the most egalitarian society, there will always be that 1% elite at the top of the pyramid. Those in charge always have better lives than those they rule over.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 11:11:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 04:48 pm

    I'm not sure it's a fact that humans will for sure all accept machine implants.. We don't know what will happen in the future, and I'm sure a lot of people will be opposed to it.

    Nightfox

    I am not sure if you speak to many Gen-Z type folk... they are not the kind of people to reject any kind of technological advancement if it makes their lives easier. There's a distinct differences between old boomers, millenials and the new generation... attitudes change over periods of time. You might oppose such implants because they're alien to you. Even getting something small like a microchip into a boomer/older millenial would be a challenge. We are products of our age, so if it's normal, and sold as a benefit, people are not going to be opposed to it.

    Smaller implants are going to make their way into the public consciousness over the next decade and will be heavily normalised within 10-20 years... implantable brain technology such as Neuralink should be considered somewhat normal by 2030. These products are going to appeal more to those who were born after the millenium rather than dinosaurs like us.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 11:19:18 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:27 pm

    Anything that's capable of independent thought is alive. So an AI which is capable of questioning its existence, is alive. Ever watch iRobot or Johnn Those things are alive, man!

    I used to love Short Circuit when I was a kid. "Wouldn't. You. Like. To. Be. A. Pepper. Too?"

    Haven't seen it in years, I wonder how it holds up in 2020.

    Hahaha, that scene always cracked me up as a kid... loved that movie!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 11:24:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:29 pm

    I've often wondered whether I'd see a North American Union in my lifetime.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

    Quite possible! There was an old plan to reshape the world into three seperate regions. North/South America, Europe merged with Africa and part of the Middle East and Asia with Russia. I can barely remember seeing it but it may have been a UN proposal circa 1950. Ah well, looks like it's in the back burner for now!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Mon Aug 17 11:55:07 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:27 am

    The idea is to make us all the same. Once we all believe in the same thing, and we revere certain societal axioms, human civilisation will move in a single direction... rather than being disparate parts of a machine constantly tearing away at itself with unecessary conflict.

    Yes, we will have to rely on some kind of dictator to make this happen, as democracy is not a good model for "getting stuff done". But this would occur naturally should there ever be a world government. In that sense, we could achieve either a utopia, or potentially a dystopia.

    God, that sounds awful. The worst, most murderous regimes have this as their goal. Removing those that don't fit in.

    Make us the same as whose vision? Which dictator? Mine? Which axioms? Please don't tell me modern ones, I'll vomit!

    The system we have right now doesn't work. You know that, I know that. This World is imperfect, if only we could wipe away the impurities.

    This kind of Utopia would only work under the direction of a kind and benevolant World Dictator. A future of heavy automation and resource allocation, designed to uplift the poorest of those in society is surely preferable to the corrupt petty squabbling we have in this present day.

    Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia, Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the framework of a good and humane system of control.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Mon Aug 17 12:09:31 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:39 am

    I think that ideology and culture is to some degree, genetically determined in subtle ways. Perhaps not significantly, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

    Star Trek is science fiction, based upon contemporary Western ideals which have been held by a small minority of the human population, for a tiny fraction of history (these ideals will become outdated soon). It is just a story. You may as well be using The Cat in the Hat the determine the future history of humanity, the latter is more realistic (I've seen a cat wear a hat).

    Obviously my thoughts on the future of humanity are heavily influnced by Western ideals, those ideals are all I know. If our current Western ideals become outdated, what do you think will replace them?

    My projections of humanity's future are based on the beliefs of people like Musk, Gates along with those weilding the power in Silicon Valley. Technology WILL play an all encompassing part of our lives, there's no arguing against that. Then again, US-China relations could disintegrate into a nuclear war, killing us all.

    Anything can happen!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 12:12:58 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 07:53 pm

    I'm starting to wonder if you're some kind of troll who actually
    believes the horseshit you're shoveling. Still not quite certain
    if that's it, or if you're just a drug-damaged moron who likes to
    hear himself spout off.

    Either way, you're now in the loony-bin / whacko category, and
    mostly ignored.

    Good, please ignore. The only posts of yours I consider entertaining are are the pretty squabbles you have with MRO.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 12:15:22 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:14 pm

    Wearable smart-tech is a far cry from neuro-implants. If you
    think that's where we're going, you're highly delusional.

    Neuro implants are being developed RIGHT NOW. Keep up with the times...

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 12:18:02 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:20 pm

    LOL! A serious discussion being held by freaks and whackos,
    maybe.

    Your condescending attitude is starting to piss me off. Of course
    I know what social engineering is, you little worm. Go read some
    more science fiction and then transpose it into your "reality".

    You're pissing yourself off... stop reading my posts!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 12:23:20 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 11:18 pm

    CS Lewis was a wise man. But I think in context he meant that free will
    was essential for humanity and not a blemish.

    CS Lewis, as a religous man, wrestled with the notion of free-will vs determinism. He would never subjugate man's free will or believe in such a notion, as that would be akin to playing god.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Mon Aug 17 12:34:47 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:02 am

    No one is suggesting they all look upon each other as equals. I think the is with this is that we are talking about different stages of society. The idea that we will merge with AI, is sort of the end-game... the end of humanity a the beginning of a completely new lifeform. If, in a world government, there peace and we live in an egalitarian society... no one is going to be FAR bet off than anyone else, it's just that there will be smaller perks as an administrator, doctor or scientist, rather than a janitor. You may have a slightly larger appartment, a larger TV to watch and tastier food to eat, bu your life and his are going to be comparable.

    As long as humans are involved, there will always be nepotism, bribary and corruption... free will breeds self-interest, therefore it doesn't matter if the administrator looks after his own child... as, in his world, the three aren't equal.


    It seems to me that you are talking about idealized communism now rather than actual hive-minds.

    In a hive-mind the doctor and the janitor don't exist. Only the Borg exists. And this is so because if the doctor existed, he would not want to spend the work needed to become a doctor when he can spend the work to work as a mopper and have a similar lifestyle.

    I did say that we were talking about different time periods... it's highly unlikely that we'll go from free-will and individualism straight to "The Borg". A system like idealised communism would have to appear first as world movements play out in stages.

    I think we've strayed waaay off topic anyway... this was just supposed to be about Musk's Neuralink brain-implants and now we're talking about systems of governemnt, haha.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 12:39:13 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:20 pm

    We've went massively off-topic anyway... this was supposed to be about Musk's Neuralink brain-implants, not a discussion on systems of governance utilising said technology.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Dennisk on Mon Aug 17 11:42:22 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:57 pm

    But it would change our decision making, wouldn't it? And decisions would be based more on an external force, than an internal drive, right?

    Maybe, maybe not. We're already essentially computers. We receive an input in the form of stimulus or information, and our decision making process is a set of chemical and electrical interactions. Yeah, the wiring may end up different, but the fundamental process may not change much and be more akin to what would happen now if you had more/different information available.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    Synchronet The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 11:46:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Ogg <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:13 pm

    Would you be the first to volunteer to have your free will removed?

    I don't think it would be that bad. You'd live a life of willful
    ignorance

    You're already doing that.

    in a world with no human caused suffering. If it's a
    world like 1984, then no... because life would be miserable and I
    would have neither free will nor any rights. If it's the
    benevolant scientific dictatorship depicted in Aldous Huxley's
    Brave New World, where people are brain-washed and heavily
    conditioned at an early age, but live pleasent lives, then yes...
    sign me up!

    Yes, please do (sign up). A good way to cleanse the gene pool.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 12:26:10 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:17 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Dennisk on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:03 am

    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve r world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and pove in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    HusTler

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.


    This reminds me of an old story.

    A purple alien and a yellow alien are working in a lab, no stop, in a solution that will end racism forever. The purple alien comes up with a pill.

    "Hey, I have found a solution. Within this pill, lays the compound that will erase racism forever."

    "That sounds great," said the yello alien.

    "Now take this pill so you can turn purple like me!"
    /s

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 12:32:20 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Mon Aug 17 2020 12:34 pm

    A system like idealised communism would have to appear first as world moveme play out in stages.

    Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely low scale.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 15:16:00 2020
    On 17 Aug 2020, Andeddu said the following...

    I did say that we were talking about different time periods... it's highly unlikely that we'll go from free-will and individualism straight to "The B A system like idealised communism would have to appear first as world move play out in stages.

    I'd love to see new Star Trek series that focuses on the origins of The Borg.

    Star Trek: Collective

    Basically the whole thing would play out as a normal futuristic drama, maybe they get enough technology to visit a neighbouring planet and begin
    culturally assimilating them. Then it moves on from there bit by but.

    The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while
    ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come up.

    I think it could be a good series anyway...

    Or maybe one about the origins of The Q: Star Trek: Continuum


    Jay

    ... "The Borg?! Sounds Swedish..."

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Mon Aug 17 15:19:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:22 am



    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve real world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or saw in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and poverty in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    Greed is a bigger problem than those two.


    In a way, some of the worst behaviors and conditions are rooted in basic emoti ons. One of the things hat futurists look at more than politicians and
    social planners is the concept of culture. Rascism and poverty are products
    of culture. You can invest loads of money or push for improving education
    into a depressed area, but things won't change until you change the overall culture these areas created on their own. While I'm not a fna of Oprah
    Winfrey or any of her cult creations, her girls school in Africa is an
    attempt to build these girls up into self confident people who are not
    trapped by their surroundings. There was controversy a few year's back about visitation rights by these girl's parents. The claim was the school was stealing their souls or some crazy idea like that because they were isolated from the thing their family believed made them who they are. Apparently
    rape, incest, and liberal amounts of physical and verbal abuse are
    ingredients they feel their daughters were missing. It's hard to change a culture that does not want to be changed.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 15:37:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:06 pm



    I am positive that it's a fact that most (the VAST majority) will
    NOT accept machine implants.

    "Transhumanism" is a freak/niche idea that only a very few
    whack-jobs subscribe to. It's like they wanted to be science
    fiction writers, but failed, so came up with this idea to try to
    justify their distorted "thinking". It's right there beside the "flat-earthers" on the scale of stupid beliefs.

    Many of these changes or movements may require a cultural revolution or a
    move that promotes cultural changes. Ease of use of technology has moved us beyong having a pc in our homes, and put them in our hands in the form of handheld devices. Technology changes so fast, I would be worried about cybern etic implants. Every time a new Iphone or Samsung phone comes out, people
    line up for it. Imagine every year and a half going to a clinic where they
    dig into your head or body to not just to replace a module, but also in some cases to tear out the obsolete or degrade interface components that are fused to bone and nerves? The technology you are born with will be obsolte in a
    few years or need replacing on a regular interval to adjust for growth or
    just plain keeping up with the Joneses regarding how much crap is sticking
    out of your head.

    If a segment of society heads that direction, we may see a split in society that stays "human" and sticks with external interfaces, while others dive
    into electromechanical or genetic enhancements. The Amish are an example of
    an ideolgy that shuns certain technologies, however among their practitioners there are degrees of acceptance, normally in the category of getting work
    done. Their ideology preaches "idle hands are devil's playground," and some groups translate that looser than others when it comes to electricity and
    power tools.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Mon Aug 17 15:45:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:14 pm



    Wearable smart-tech is a far cry from neuro-implants. If you
    think that's where we're going, you're highly delusional.




    I can see some devices that could be inserted sub-deramally such as a headset and microphone or motion sensors in people's hands that allow them to use virtual keyboards or other pointing means, however it would take require a
    real good reason to allow someone to dig in your body to fuse contacts to
    your nerves. Sticking a transducer under the skin is no big deal. Cutting holes and splicing body parts requires a completely different level of application.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 16:54:17 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sun Aug 16 2020 10:04 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:32 pm

    He joined right out of high school, so he never had much in the form
    of correspence or affairs of his own that came through the mail, and
    just about everything else he did was through online banking and
    online bill pay. When I was in high school in the late 80's, there
    was a class targetted towards the non-college crowd called family
    living. It taught how to balance a checkbook, create a budget, and
    how to operate within that budget, and other domestic stuff. I feel
    that type of course is essential, because some students are ready to
    leave home so fast after they graduate, they aren't likely to sit
    down with their parents or their parents are poorly equipped to
    teach them these skills.


    it's a class called home economics.
    you probably took it.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 16:57:40 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:32 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:13 pm

    Would you be the first to volunteer to have your free will removed?

    I don't think it would be that bad. You'd live a life of willful ignorance in a world with no human caused suffering. If it's a world like 1984, then no... because life would be miserable and I would have neither free will nor any rights. If it's the benevolant scientific dictatorship depicted in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, where people are brain-washed and heavily conditioned at an early age, but live pleasent lives, then yes... sign me up!
    up!


    most people's free will is pretty fucked up as it is. having your free will removed might be an improvement for a lot of people.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 17:00:48 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:19 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:27 pm

    Anything that's capable of independent thought is alive. So an AI
    which is capable of questioning its existence, is alive. Ever
    watch iRobot or Johnn Those things are alive, man!

    I used to love Short Circuit when I was a kid. "Wouldn't. You. Like.
    To. Be. A. Pepper. Too?"

    Haven't seen it in years, I wonder how it holds up in 2020.

    Hahaha, that scene always cracked me up as a kid... loved that movie! Hahaha, that scene always cracked me up as a kid... loved that movie!

    you get to see parker stephens do a stereotypical indian guy.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 15:44:25 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm

    The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come up.

    I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when there was no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity with a distributed consciousness.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Warpslide on Tue Aug 18 08:43:00 2020
    On 08-17-20 15:16, Warpslide wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I'd love to see new Star Trek series that focuses on the origins of The Borg.

    Star Trek: Collective

    Maybe a decent movie would do the trick there. :)

    Or maybe one about the origins of The Q: Star Trek: Continuum

    Now that would be intriguing!


    Jay

    ... "The Borg?! Sounds Swedish..."

    And good at tennis, no doubt. ;)


    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates '81
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 18:43:36 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:17 am

    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve
    real
    poverty in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism and all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in the history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology there is the prospect of making this happen.

    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?



    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Ogg@Ogg to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 20:40:00 2020
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Monday 17.08.20 - 07:23, andeddu wrote to Ogg:

    CS Lewis was a wise man. But I think in context he meant that free
    will was essential for humanity and not a blemish.

    CS Lewis, as a religous man, wrestled with the notion of free-will vs determinism. He would never subjugate man's free will or believe in
    such a notion, as that would be akin to playing god.

    I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not,
    but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the
    only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating."

    .: machine-like humans (via neuralink), not a good idea. ;)

    I've exhausted my interest to discuss this topic any further.
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 21:34:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:17 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Dennisk on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:03 am

    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve r world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and pove in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    HusTler

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.

    That says it will be done, not how it can be done.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Mon Aug 17 22:57:34 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:44 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm

    The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while
    ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come
    up.

    I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when there was no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity with a distributed consciousness.

    --

    a hive needs a queen
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 22:58:34 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm

    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?

    i know it might not be as good but in that situation you could give up
    rosey palm
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon Aug 17 20:58:51 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 2020 04:54 pm

    it's a class called home economics.
    you probably took it.

    I took a home economics class in 8th grade. How to address an envelope was not something they talked about in that class, but I already knew how to do it by then anyway. Also, the class was an elective; it wasn't a required class.

    The main things I remember doing in that class were some basic cooking (I already knew some basic cooking by that time) and sewing a shirt together (I've never done sewing since then, perhaps other than sewing a couple buttons onto some pants, which I probably could have figured out anyway).

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Mon Aug 17 23:25:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 2020 04:54 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sun Aug 16 2020 10:04 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:32 pm

    He joined right out of high school, so he never had much in the form
    of correspence or affairs of his own that came through the mail, and
    just about everything else he did was through online banking and
    online bill pay. When I was in high school in the late 80's, there
    was a class targetted towards the non-college crowd called family
    living. It taught how to balance a checkbook, create a budget, and
    how to operate within that budget, and other domestic stuff. I feel
    that type of course is essential, because some students are ready to
    leave home so fast after they graduate, they aren't likely to sit
    down with their parents or their parents are poorly equipped to
    teach them these skills.


    it's a class called home economics.
    you probably took it.

    Home ec and family living were different. Shop class filled up early so I
    had to take home ec in the 8th grade. The bulk of our time was learning how
    to cook and use the various kitchen appliances otherwise we were learning how to sew and mend clothing. there was some acedemic stuff such as nutrition thrown in, but family living was much more practical for for a high school senior that was not going the college route. I took the college bound block
    of classes, but heard from friends the teacher covered writing resumes and filling out applications. Sounds like simple stuff, but can be intimidating
    to someone who has never done it before.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Mon Aug 17 23:39:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 04:57 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:32 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:13 pm

    Would you be the first to volunteer to have your free will removed?

    I don't think it would be that bad. You'd live a life of willful ignora in a world with no human caused suffering. If it's a world like 1984, t no... because life would be miserable and I would have neither free wil nor any rights. If it's the benevolant scientific dictatorship depicted Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, where people are brain-washed and heav conditioned at an early age, but live pleasent lives, then yes... sign up!
    up!


    most people's free will is pretty fucked up as it is. having your free will

    The irony of having free will or self determination is you need to be careful how you practice it and the consequences of free will. Just because you can
    do something doesn't mean you should. If you want to function within a
    society you need to follow the rules. It doesn't matter whether you embrace the spirit of the law or just follow the rules out of fear of breaking the
    law. Unless you live in a locked down dictatorship, you have a right to leave or a right to petitition to change the law or you could withdraw from
    society. That was the draw behind moving to places such as the US or Australia.
    If you didn't fit in, you could either tolerate your condition or pack up and create your own private space.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Mon Aug 17 23:48:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:44 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm

    The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come up.

    I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when there w no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity with a distributed consciousness.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    The Borg Queen was a cheap plot device to place a singular face behind an otherwise decentralized enemy. I also never understood the importance of recovering components of deactivated Borg. If anything it would be better if disconnected Borg would self destruct as a means to sever themselves from the matrix.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Mon Aug 17 23:53:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Warpslide on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:43 am

    On 08-17-20 15:16, Warpslide wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I'd love to see new Star Trek series that focuses on the origins of The Borg.

    Star Trek: Collective

    Maybe a decent movie would do the trick there. :)

    Or maybe one about the origins of The Q: Star Trek: Continuum

    Now that would be intriguing!


    Jay


    I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved and
    self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been allowed to
    leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 00:02:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm



    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. N



    Yep, some engineer wants to breed us all into being mindless, passive sheep, and beleives they are so much better than the rest of use they will protect
    us by breeding out "disagreeable" features rather than engineer a society
    where the benefits of society reinforce taking responsibility for ourselves.

    I'm amazed no one has brought up the scifi film Gattaca yet.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 20:58:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:27 am

    The idea is to make us all the same. Once we all believe in the same thing, and we revere certain societal axioms, human civilisation will move in a single direction... rather than being disparate parts of a machine constantly tearing away at itself with unecessary conflict.

    Yes, we will have to rely on some kind of dictator to make this happen, as democracy is not a good model for "getting stuff done". But this would occur naturally should there ever be a world government. In that sense, we could achieve either a utopia, or potentially a dystopia.

    God, that sounds awful. The worst, most murderous regimes have this as their goal. Removing those that don't fit in.

    Make us the same as whose vision? Which dictator? Mine? Which axioms? Please don't tell me modern ones, I'll vomit!

    The system we have right now doesn't work. You know that, I know that. This World is imperfect, if only we could wipe away the impurities.

    This kind of Utopia would only work under the direction of a kind and benevolant World Dictator. A future of heavy automation and resource allocation, designed to uplift the poorest of those in society is
    surely preferable to the corrupt petty squabbling we have in this
    present day.

    Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia,
    Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why
    we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit
    the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the
    framework of a good and humane system of control.

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 21:02:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:39 am

    I think that ideology and culture is to some degree, genetically determined in subtle ways. Perhaps not significantly, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

    Star Trek is science fiction, based upon contemporary Western ideals which have been held by a small minority of the human population, for a tiny fraction of history (these ideals will become outdated soon). It is just a story. You may as well be using The Cat in the Hat the determine the future history of humanity, the latter is more realistic (I've seen a cat wear a hat).

    Obviously my thoughts on the future of humanity are heavily influnced
    by Western ideals, those ideals are all I know. If our current Western ideals become outdated, what do you think will replace them?

    My projections of humanity's future are based on the beliefs of people like Musk, Gates along with those weilding the power in Silicon Valley. Technology WILL play an all encompassing part of our lives, there's no arguing against that. Then again, US-China relations could disintegrate into a nuclear war, killing us all.

    Anything can happen!

    I think Musk is disconnected with reality to some degree, as is most of Silicon Valley. These people are the last people I would go to, to get advice on where humanity should go. Why would you think someone who lives in a bubble, would understand how the world works? These are business people, and they have geared their knowledge towards their trade.

    What will replace our ideals? I'm not sure, but we can see that populism is a growing force, people are rejecting some ideals. The EU is falling apart, the TPP is dead, people are wanting less and less this future of global hegemony. We saw Brexit, and we will see soon, I think a move away from "diversity" as an ideal. We are halfway there, as this idea now smells of a bad religion and is a source of conflict. We will begin to realise that these high ideals don't work. And I won't miss them either.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 21:05:00 2020
    Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:57 pm

    But it would change our decision making, wouldn't it? And decisions would be based more on an external force, than an internal drive, right?

    Maybe, maybe not. We're already essentially computers. We receive an
    input in the form of stimulus or information, and our decision making process is a set of chemical and electrical interactions. Yeah, the
    wiring may end up different, but the fundamental process may not change much and be more akin to what would happen now if you had
    more/different information available. ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423

    No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates, or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely different, as does our processing. We don't work in binary, or definite, strict logic. Our brain uses a vastly different model, so any comparison which goes into more depth than "electrical signals" is useless. Computers don't understand context, aren't conscious, and cannot think. They don't fall for visual or auditory illusions.

    I think when we map how the brain works, we will see that it works using an alien computation model to what our machines do.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 21:14:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:22 am



    You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve real world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or saw in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and poverty in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?

    Greed is a bigger problem than those two.


    In a way, some of the worst behaviors and conditions are rooted in
    basic emoti ons. One of the things hat futurists look at more than politicians and social planners is the concept of culture. Rascism and poverty are products of culture. You can invest loads of money or push for improving education into a depressed area, but things won't change until you change the overall culture these areas created on their own. While I'm not a fna of Oprah Winfrey or any of her cult creations, her girls school in Africa is an attempt to build these girls up into self confident people who are not trapped by their surroundings. There was controversy a few year's back about visitation rights by these girl's parents. The claim was the school was stealing their souls or some
    crazy idea like that because they were isolated from the thing their family believed made them who they are. Apparently rape, incest, and liberal amounts of physical and verbal abuse are ingredients they feel their daughters were missing. It's hard to change a culture that does
    not want to be changed.

    Poverty has always been with us, because of scarcity. It could be argued it is not necessary now, but we live in exceptional times of surplus, which isn't the norm. As for racism, the term is so overused I don't pay attention to it anymore. Just me existing in a place is considered "racism" by some, so nuts to that.

    The reason that I think these implants are dumb ideas, is because the person making the idea lacks self-awareness and understanding of the human conditions.
    Our problems aren't information, knowledge, they are behavioural, and people promote things for self serving interests, INCLUDING ideas such as implants and dictatorships of the benevolent. Everyone who imagines a utopia, imagines one as per THEIR model. So it is automatically oppressive, because it is person X who is imposing THEIR vision on us all. I for example, want to live in a world where different peoples still exist, where nations DO favour their own over others and resist homogenisation. I'm for the powerfull bucking social and moral trends (as long as they don't complete power), for struggle, conflict, antagonism. Maybe, just maybe some people with 'deplorable' views are actually holding views that make our world better, but we are too prejudiced to see it. The existence of that antagonism is good, as long as there is balance.

    Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. Our world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manage themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 21:03:00 2020
    On 08-17-20 23:53, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved
    and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been
    allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.

    Q (as in the most frequent member of the Q Contunum seen on the show) did have his moments. :)

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.

    I didn't think of mthat, but yes that makes sense.



    ... Help Conserve the Earth - it's the only planet with chocolate.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 07:51:00 2020
    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia,
    Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why
    we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit
    the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the
    framework of a good and humane system of control.

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a
    benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined,
    removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    Great point - it has NEVER worked, and never would, for just the
    reasons you mention above.

    This Andeddu person is seriously delusional. Over the edge, even.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Vk3jed on Tue Aug 18 19:33:55 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 05:29 pm

    Where I question these approaches is neurodiversity also means a potential for out of the box ideas, whether in a practical, problem solving sense, or a purely ideological sense. And some of those ideas might be what we need to survive the next calamity (after COVID-19 ;) ).

    I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even within the same ideological structures.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Tracker1 on Tue Aug 18 19:49:22 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:33 am

    Collectivist/Humanist/Communist governments tend not to work very well, especially in a vacuum. Even China wouldn't be doing very well without international trade. It's that negotiation from opposition that enables commerce, which enables growth. Without it, things tend to sink to the lowest common denominator. Also, TOS was definitely about commerce with other planets and the Federation was more of a common defense pact,
    which allows things to work.

    China is a manufacturing/technological superpower. Once international trade dies off, Chinese firms will have to pay their worker's a fair wage so that they can purchase the goods they produce. They'll be landed with the same economical enviroment the USA had back in the 1950s-1980s when they too were a manufacturing superpower.

    I am not an advocate of Communism though.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Tue Aug 18 20:02:39 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 12:32 pm

    Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely low scale.

    The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book & I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 20:19:43 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm

    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?

    Well you wanted a solution to racism, poverty, etc... have you got better idea?

    In this world you can have sex with a single partner on Tuesday and Orgy-Porgy (group sex) every second Thursday. Not so bad now is it?

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Tue Aug 18 20:25:59 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 08:40 pm

    I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating."

    I can see the validity of both sides of the argument. There's so much barbarity and cruelty in the world that I would be tempted to remove man's free will, if only to end the suffering.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 20:38:21 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:34 pm

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.

    That says it will be done, not how it can be done.

    Through an idological consensus, the less reputable ideas many individuals harbour could be eliminated.

    Diversity in ideas invariably ends in conflict. The idea of "the individual" would have to end, and replaced with ideas of "the collective".

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 20:49:39 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 2020 12:02 am

    Yep, some engineer wants to breed us all into being mindless, passive sheep, and beleives they are so much better than the rest of use they will protect us by breeding out "disagreeable" features rather than engineer a society where the benefits of society reinforce taking responsibility for ourselves.

    I'm amazed no one has brought up the scifi film Gattaca yet.

    Gattaca is one of my favourite films, an absolute classic.

    Perhaps there's a way to engineer empathy into people. I think there's a distinct lack of it in this day and age. An empathetic person is a good person... we can agree that we don't need any more evil people.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 20:54:37 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:58 pm

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    It's rare, I admit. There have been GOOD Roman Emperors, which is why their civilisation lasted so long. The problem with dictatorships is that it takes only one bad egg to burn the entire society to the ground.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 21:06:25 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:02 pm

    I think Musk is disconnected with reality to some degree, as is most of Silicon Valley. These people are the last people I would go to, to get advice on where humanity should go. Why would you think someone who lives in a bubble, would understand how the world works? These are business people, and they have geared their knowledge towards their trade.

    What will replace our ideals? I'm not sure, but we can see that populism is a growing force, people are rejecting some ideals. The EU is falling apart, the TPP is dead, people are wanting less and less this future of global hegemony. We saw Brexit, and we will see soon, I think a move away from "diversity" as an ideal. We are halfway there, as this idea now smells of a bad religion and is a source of conflict. We will begin to realise that

    And why is populism, nationalism and anti-globalism so fiercely opposed by the media? Do you view Trump as someone railing against the global hegemony?

    I can't see anything but conflict in our immediate future. Politics (in the US in particular) has never been so toxic.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 21:19:44 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm

    The reason that I think these implants are dumb ideas, is because the person making the idea lacks self-awareness and understanding of the human conditions.
    Our problems aren't information, knowledge, they are behavioural, and people promote things for self serving interests, INCLUDING ideas such as implants and dictatorships of the benevolent. Everyone who imagines a utopia, imagines one as per THEIR model. So it is automatically oppressive, because it is person X who is imposing THEIR vision on us all. I for example, want to live in a world where different peoples still exist, where nations DO favour their own over others and resist homogenisation. I'm for the powerfull bucking social and moral trends (as long as they don't complete power), for struggle, conflict, antagonism. Maybe, just maybe some people with 'deplorable' views are actually holding views that make our world better, but we are too prejudiced to see it. The existence of that antagonism is good, as long as there is balance.

    Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. Our world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manage themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.

    Sam Harris posits that suffering is the only thing we can say is objectively bad. A world with LESS suffering is objectively better than a world with MORE suffering. Although basic, I think he's right.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Tue Aug 18 11:02:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Arelor on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:57 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:44 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm

    The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while
    ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come
    up.

    I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when th was no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity w a distributed consciousness.

    --

    a hive needs a queen

    They are a collective conscious, not really a hive. No need for hierarchy since any decision is a consensus of everyone's thoughts.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Tue Aug 18 11:07:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:58 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm

    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex wit No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer n having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?

    i know it might not be as good but in that situation you could give up
    rosey palm

    I picture it being like the relaxation device in THX1138 with the artifical hand.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 11:17:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:58 pm



    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?


    I doubt one leader or one set of rules would work for the whole world. Every region has it's own diverse combination of climate and lay of the land. Different resources. What works well in the city might not apply in rural regions. Rules regulating dense forest don't apply in sparse deserts. Regardless how much you'd want it to go away, every nation, state, country or district will have it' own identities and sub cultures. Finding a common thread between everyone they are willing to agree on will be hard.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 11:38:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm


    No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely different, as does our processing. We don't work in binary, or definite, strict logic. O brain uses a vastly different model, so any comparison which goes into more depth than "electrical signals" is useless. Computers don't understand context, aren't conscious, and cannot think. They don't fall for visual or auditory illusions.

    I think when we map how the brain works, we will see that it works using an alien computation model to what our machines do.


    We are machines. Organic electro chemical machines that are way more
    complex than any concepts we currently use to crunch numbers. Some functions of our bodies have analogs in non-organic mechanics and electronics, howver they are smaller components of more complex systems. Memory systems alone blows scientists minds because they are aware of generic nodes, however the data
    is stored and multiplexed in ways that currently don't make sense.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 11:52:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm


    Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. O world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manag themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.


    The first step in moving forward is discovering what holds you back.
    Tradition and heritage may be better suited for history books, since
    everyone's identity is how they personally translate what was said and done
    in the past. If we adhered to all tradition and the old ways, we'd still be hunter gatherers relying on caves.

    I agree self responsibility and discipline are important tools for improving people's status in lives. Only so much can be blamed on others and some obstacles are only hard to overcome because of lack of self confidence or
    self esteem.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Tue Aug 18 12:06:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm

    On 08-17-20 23:53, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.

    Q (as in the most frequent member of the Q Contunum seen on the show) did ha his moments. :)

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.

    I didn't think of mthat, but yes that makes sense.




    Another common them in Trek was overcoming god-like enemies. In some cases
    the god manifested itself in the form of a machine, and was defeated with logic, or it was a being of advanced abilities which could be confused and defeated by playing with it's emotions. Third category required logic and emotion to spring the trap.

    Regardless, the crew comes out winning because they rose to meet the challenge or the enemy under estimated what humanity is capable of.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Tue Aug 18 12:23:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:51 am

    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia, Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the framework of a good and humane system of control.

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined,
    removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    Great point - it has NEVER worked, and never would, for just the
    reasons you mention above.

    This Andeddu person is seriously delusional. Over the edge, even.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

    Tito and Saddam Hussein only stayed in power because they created a system where the deck was stacked in a way their opponents were too busy fighting
    over their differences rather than joining sides to defeat a common enemy. Tito kept the Serbs, Croats, and Muslims in check the same way Hussein kept
    the Sunni, Shia and Kurds in check. If any group appeared to be showing an advantage, use scare tactics to gather the other minorities to rally against them.

    Technically speaking they were both successful. Tito was defeated by
    death, and Hussein's downfall was in threatening outside nations. No
    internal forces could take them down.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Aug 18 17:10:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Aug 17 2020 08:58 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 2020 04:54 pm

    it's a class called home economics.
    you probably took it.

    I took a home economics class in 8th grade. How to address an envelope was not something they talked about in that class, but I already knew how to do it by then anyway. Also, the class was an elective; it wasn't a required class.

    The main things I remember doing in that class were some basic cooking (I already knew some basic cooking by that time) and sewing a shirt together (I've never done sewing since then, perhaps other than sewing a couple buttons onto some pants, which I probably could have figured out anyway).



    you were in a crappy school system.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Dennisk on Tue Aug 18 16:16:56 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm

    No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates, or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely

    You're worrying about levels of sophistication and architecture. My point is that we do operate on a pretty binary level. You even expect it from other people in your interactions in being able to predict reactions. If you get a different response you chalk that up to the environmental circumstances or differing past experience. The underlying point is the same: it's a series of chemical and electrical interactions. We can expect that with a given set of inputs, we'll get a given set of outputs every time. The fact we can't predict exactly which inputs map to which outputs is just a matter of complexity. That's why there's thought even as far as that the experience consciousness may be more of an emergent phenomenom.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    Synchronet The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Vk3jed on Tue Aug 18 16:17:53 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
    powerful.

    There have been arguments made that Trelane was a Q. Maybe even the Q we know. ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    Synchronet The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Vk3jed on Tue Aug 18 14:26:32 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm

    I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.

    Q (as in the most frequent member of the Q Contunum seen on the show) did have his moments. :)

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.

    I didn't think of mthat, but yes that makes sense.

    I love when I beat Q in TNG pinball game. He usally wins though.

    ---TLM

    ---
    Synchronet Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 19:11:03 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:25 pm

    Home ec and family living were different. Shop class filled up early so I had to take home ec in the 8th grade. The bulk of our time was learning how to cook and use the various kitchen appliances otherwise we were learning how to sew and mend clothing. there was some acedemic stuff such as nutrition thrown in, but family living was much more practical for for a high school senior that was not going the college route. I took the college bound block of classes, but heard from friends the teacher covered writing resumes and filling out applications. Sounds like simple stuff, but can be intimidating to someone who has never done it before.


    i guess this just shows how fucked up our educational systems were.
    in my highschool there werent any 'college route' courses.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 19:56:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-

    Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely low scale.

    The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
    & I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
    intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
    paved with good intentions.

    You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
    things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
    anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 19:58:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Ogg <=-

    I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating."

    I can see the validity of both sides of the argument.

    Apparently you are the *ONLY* one who can...

    There's so
    much barbarity and cruelty in the world that I would be tempted
    to remove man's free will, if only to end the suffering.

    Well, thankfully, you have neither the authority, nor the ability
    to do such a thing. Oh, and not enough ammo, either.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 20:02:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.

    That says it will be done, not how it can be done.

    Through an idological consensus, the less reputable ideas many
    individuals harbour could be eliminated.

    Oh yeah? Who decides who gets to decide what ideas are "less
    reputable"?

    Diversity in ideas invariably ends in conflict. The idea of "the individual" would have to end, and replaced with ideas of "the collective".

    Take your science fiction and communism-promoting bullshit ideas
    somewhere else, doofus. You're a blithering idiot.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 20:05:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    It's rare, I admit.

    It's not rare. It's non-existant.

    There have been GOOD Roman Emperors, which is
    why their civilisation lasted so long. The problem with
    dictatorships is that it takes only one bad egg to burn the
    entire society to the ground.

    And yet... you promote dictatorship, borg-collective-ism, removal
    of people's free will, creation of robot-drones, and one big New
    World Order.

    Get some mental help before you go any further into the deep end.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 13:35:00 2020
    On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing
    but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even
    within the same ideological structures.

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have
    ither.


    ... The rich will do anything for the poor but get off their backs.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 13:36:00 2020
    On 08-18-20 12:06, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Another common them in Trek was overcoming god-like enemies. In some
    cases the god manifested itself in the form of a machine, and was
    defeated with logic, or it was a being of advanced abilities which
    could be confused and defeated by playing with it's emotions. Third category required logic and emotion to spring the trap.

    Regardless, the crew comes out winning because they rose to meet the challenge or the enemy under estimated what humanity is capable of.

    Yes, I'd agree with all of that as well.


    ... The brain is as strong as its weakest think.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Underminer on Wed Aug 19 13:37:00 2020
    On 08-18-20 16:17, Underminer wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/UNDRMINE
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
    powerful.

    There have been arguments made that Trelane was a Q. Maybe even the Q
    we know. ---

    Can't rule that one out. :)


    ... I had a troubled childhood; I was breast fed from falsies.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to The Lizard Master on Wed Aug 19 13:38:00 2020
    On 08-18-20 14:26, The Lizard Master wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I love when I beat Q in TNG pinball game. He usally wins though.

    Haha in DSP and software defined radio, I and Q have to work together. ;)

    (wonder if anyone else will get that one ;) ).


    ... Ham radio operators do it with frequency.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 03:52:13 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to The Lizard Master on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:38 pm

    Haha in DSP and software defined radio, I and Q have to work together. ;) (wonder if anyone else will get that one ;) ).

    Pretty sure there's a few Hams about ;)
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    Synchronet The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 22:00:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:58 pm

    Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?

    It's rare, I admit. There have been GOOD Roman Emperors, which is why their civilisation lasted so long. The problem with dictatorships is
    that it takes only one bad egg to burn the entire society to the
    ground.

    The Roman Empire, at its most benevolent had morals and ethics which would make people balk today. Yes, there have been good rulers, but no long lasting Communist society at any appreciable scale.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 22:09:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:02 pm

    I think Musk is disconnected with reality to some degree, as is most of Silicon Valley. These people are the last people I would go to, to get advice on where humanity should go. Why would you think someone who lives in a bubble, would understand how the world works? These are business people, and they have geared their knowledge towards their trade.

    What will replace our ideals? I'm not sure, but we can see that populism is a growing force, people are rejecting some ideals. The EU is falling apart, the TPP is dead, people are wanting less and less this future of global hegemony. We saw Brexit, and we will see soon, I think a move away from "diversity" as an ideal. We are halfway there, as this idea now smells of a bad religion and is a source of conflict. We will begin to realise that

    And why is populism, nationalism and anti-globalism so fiercely opposed
    by the media? Do you view Trump as someone railing against the global hegemony?

    I can't see anything but conflict in our immediate future. Politics (in the US in particular) has never been so toxic.

    I think Trump partly is against the establishmnent, not because he's not part of it, but because of conflict of interest. He does seem to have a different worldview. As for the media, the media are part of an established ruling "elite" (and I use the term "elite" loosely). It was during the 2016 when the mask came off, that even they admitted that there IS an establishment. And there is, you get into power by meeting a particular image, a particular way of thinking, a particular mode of though and a particular ethical stance. You can see this in many parts of society. "Professional" is another euphemism. And that particular class of people are failing to deliver.

    Conflict is always in our future. "Only the dead are safe; Only the dead have seen the end of war", said George Santayana.

    We are at this stage PRECISELY because the people who want to keep their power (ie, the establishment), utterly failed. The solution is most definately not to keep the status quo, that will only make things work. The riots and division in Europe and problems with migration are due to this idiotic idea of "open borders". Diversity is THE reason we have more and more laws against speech, why there is so much division between us. Identity politics and "socialism" is the reason for so much division.

    It will take some turmoil to set things right, but its too late for any other alternative.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 22:16:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm

    The reason that I think these implants are dumb ideas, is because the person making the idea lacks self-awareness and understanding of the human conditions.
    Our problems aren't information, knowledge, they are behavioural, and people promote things for self serving interests, INCLUDING ideas such as implants and dictatorships of the benevolent. Everyone who imagines a utopia, imagines one as per THEIR model. So it is automatically oppressive, because it is person X who is imposing THEIR vision on us all. I for example, want to live in a world where different peoples still exist, where nations DO favour their own over others and resist homogenisation. I'm for the powerfull bucking social and moral trends (as long as they don't complete power), for struggle, conflict, antagonism. Maybe, just maybe some people with 'deplorable' views are actually holding views that make our world better, but we are too prejudiced to see it. The existence of that antagonism is good, as long as there is balance.

    Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. Our world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manage themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.

    Sam Harris posits that suffering is the only thing we can say is objectively bad. A world with LESS suffering is objectively better than
    a world with MORE suffering. Although basic, I think he's right.

    Perhaps, though I worry that a world with no suffering won't last. I'm not saying that people should be made to suffer, but adversity, hardship, struggle does make people better. Wealth and prosperity seems to ruin people. People have banded together in times of trouble, and shared struggle does seem to be able to bring out good in people.

    Should we make a live worth living? Absolutely, but we shouldn't think that it can be done just be removing negative stimuli. We need meaning, purpose, to be able to interact and know the REAL work. We want lives with meaning, purpose, severity and gravitas. A live eating and sitting comfortably with all the entertainment you want is not fulfilling. We want, and need, to exercise the full range of human ability, to be a power and a part of something, where our lifes energy shapes something lasting and important.

    I would much rather a world where I can work with meaning, where I can live honest and true to myself, and be able to express myself freely and debate. Even if that involves competition, struggling and coming against others, there is a purpose. A world which is controlled for comfort cannot allow that. No longer will humans be able to shape the world, impress themselves on it and affect it, shape it, debate and express themselves. They will have to fit a mould, be moulded, and never brush up and push against the narrow path. Despite the physical comfort, the lack of "racism", this I think would make people depressed, a life, while comfortable, has no point at all. Lifes energy going nowhere.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 22:21:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm


    No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely different, as does our processing. We don't work in binary, or definite, strict logic. O brain uses a vastly different model, so any comparison which goes into more depth than "electrical signals" is useless. Computers don't understand context, aren't conscious, and cannot think. They don't fall for visual or auditory illusions.

    I think when we map how the brain works, we will see that it works using an alien computation model to what our machines do.


    We are machines. Organic electro chemical machines that are way more complex than any concepts we currently use to crunch numbers. Some functions of our bodies have analogs in non-organic mechanics and electronics, howver they are smaller components of more complex
    systems. Memory systems alone blows scientists minds because they are aware of generic nodes, however the data is stored and multiplexed in
    ways that currently don't make sense.

    A flagellum is microscopic machine in the cell. Even the RNA transcription process is done by machines in our cells. Our mind interelates different parts. For example, when we see an object, our mental image isn't just the image, but there is contexual information overlayed onto it. We don't just see a glass of water, we also see it in a particular context, even if we are not consciously aware of it.

    A good example of how different we work, is how we can easily not be fooled by someone wearing a T-Shirt with a stop sign, but self-driving cars are. It isn't just processing of the image, it is connecting it with everything else we know, and our bias towards analysing things as objects.

    We may one day make a mind like ours, but I think we are far further from it than we think. The most interesting part of AI is machine learning through evolutionary techniques.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 22:23:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm


    Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. O world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manag themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.


    The first step in moving forward is discovering what holds you back. Tradition and heritage may be better suited for history books, since everyone's identity is how they personally translate what was said and done in the past. If we adhered to all tradition and the old ways,
    we'd still be hunter gatherers relying on caves.

    I agree self responsibility and discipline are important tools for improving people's status in lives. Only so much can be blamed on
    others and some obstacles are only hard to overcome because of lack of self confidence or self esteem.

    Tradition does need to be question, but not discarded. Tradition and heritage has two functions we don't appreciate. Firstly, tradition within it, has centuries and generations worth of knowledge, gained by trial and error, often painfully. WE may not be able to explain why certain traditions or cultural mores are the way they are, but they nevertheless behind them, may contain much hard learned wisdon. Heritage also gives us grounding, and anchors us to a particular part of the patchwork of humanity, the part where we may best fit.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Underminer on Wed Aug 19 22:26:00 2020
    Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm

    No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates, or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely

    You're worrying about levels of sophistication and architecture. My
    point is that we do operate on a pretty binary level. You even expect
    it from other people in your interactions in being able to predict reactions. If you get a different response you chalk that up to the environmental circumstances or differing past experience. The
    underlying point is the same: it's a series of chemical and electrical interactions. We can expect that with a given set of inputs, we'll get
    a given set of outputs every time. The fact we can't predict exactly
    which inputs map to which outputs is just a matter of complexity.
    That's why there's thought even as far as that the experience consciousness may be more of an emergent phenomenom. ---
    Underminer

    There is some conjecture that perhaps there are some quantum effects within the neurons, which may result in the same inputs not resulting in the same outputs.
    I think this is a possibility, as it may be an evolutionary advantage for a mind to be able to run through a particular 'circuit', but come up with new paths faster. It's only a guess at this point, but I did once think that this might explain why our brains are conscious.

    I do agree that people are pretty predictable, at a broad level. In fact, the older I get, the more predictable people get, almost to the point I wonder whether people have minds of their own, or really are following scripts.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 22:33:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-

    On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing
    but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even
    within the same ideological structures.

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism,
    ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the
    remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the value of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Wed Aug 19 15:03:33 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:56 pm

    You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
    things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
    anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!

    I am not making any definitive statements or taking sides, merely exploring philsophical/ideological abstractions.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Wed Aug 19 15:13:37 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:58 pm

    Well, thankfully, you have neither the authority, nor the ability
    to do such a thing. Oh, and not enough ammo, either.

    It's quite funny that you're getting so worked up over words/ideas. As part of any debate, people are required to take sides and behave in a contrarian manner... by doing this, we can analyse the strengths and weaknesses of a particular idea.

    So calm down, I am not in tow with Musk or anyone of his ilk... I won't be arranging to have chips implanted into your brain or anyone elses so you can become part of some kind of humanist collective.

    Remove the tinfoil hat and chill out, dude.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 15:29:22 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:35 pm

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have
    ither.

    I believe that a huge number of our finest mathematicians and physicists are themselves on the autism spectrum. I watched quite an interesting documentary a while ago about a group of British students competing in the Maths Olympiad. Around half appeared to be autistic. They struggled to express themselves and converse with other less talented "normal" students, however possessed incredible problem solving ability. So yeah, I agree... neurological diversity is important as it only takes one genius (who is able to think outside of the box) to push forward human understanding by 50 or so years.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 09:28:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:19 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm

    "Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?

    Well you wanted a solution to racism, poverty, etc... have you got better id

    In this world you can have sex with a single partner on Tuesday and Orgy-Por (group sex) every second Thursday. Not so bad now is it?

    And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 to sa ve resources.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 09:56:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:25 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 08:40 pm

    I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly b worth creating."

    I can see the validity of both sides of the argument. There's so much barbar and cruelty in the world that I would be tempted to remove man's free will, only to end the suffering.


    Earlier this year I heard the quote: "Ships are safe when anchored
    in protected harbors. But that's what ships are for." By the same theme I view humans as builders and problem solvers. There is an innate curiosity where humans will take risks to seek answers. In order gorw and move on as a civilization, there needs to be some form of suffering or discomfort: a reason
    to discover and implement changes. Places where this is absent are where people toil in poverty and discomfort. As problem solvers, we need to find wa ys to improve conditions in these areas to encourage growth rather than pump
    in money and resources to pacify these people.

    Imagine a family owned business, where the parents created the business as a means to rise above the lack of opportunity elsewhere. they do well, and
    have a child and spoil it versus teaching them responsibility and respect for others. Should they expect the child to see the opportunity given to them to be prosperous, or would the child show no interest? A society where poeple
    are neither suffering nor engaged in improving their status sounds horrible.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 10:12:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:38 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:34 pm

    Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.

    That says it will be done, not how it can be done.

    Through an idological consensus, the less reputable ideas many individuals harbour could be eliminated.

    Diversity in ideas invariably ends in conflict. The idea of "the individual" would have to end, and replaced with ideas of "the collective".

    However it's that diversity that promotes change and growth. When working in IT in the nuclear power industry, I heard of a concept called "groupthink." It's actually a bad thing, because everyone thinks alike, and will blindly accept an "experts" opinion as gospel without considering an alternative outcome. A good example of this in the scene in Apollo 13 where some figures the only way to get the astronauts home is if they can keep their power consumption below a seemingly impossible threshold. the chief engineer says that's impossible, and his folks accept it. It takes someone outside his authority to apply a questioning attitude to prove they were wrong.

    Back in the 90's I took a quality workgroup training course that implemented bringing in an outside person into a discussion to question the group why
    they can't see the forest from within the trees. In the forum, all were considered equals in opinion. Of course, the outside guy was always a manger of higher rank, and acted as an authoritarian rather than a moderator. Groupthink killed quality improvement.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 10:21:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:49 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 2020 12:02 am

    Yep, some engineer wants to breed us all into being mindless, passive she and beleives they are so much better than the rest of use they will prote us by breeding out "disagreeable" features rather than engineer a society where the benefits of society reinforce taking responsibility for ourselv

    I'm amazed no one has brought up the scifi film Gattaca yet.

    Gattaca is one of my favourite films, an absolute classic.

    Perhaps there's a way to engineer empathy into people. I think there's a distinct lack of it in this day and age. An empathetic person is a good person... we can agree that we don't need any more evil people.


    I agree empathy is important. It's how people try to help others that often goes wrong. I like the "teach a man to fish" quote is spot on. Keeping a person alive makes them reliant on the system or charity. Teaching them how
    to sustain themselves is even better and builds self esteem.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Underminer on Wed Aug 19 10:28:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Underminer to Vk3jed on Tue Aug 18 2020 04:17 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm

    Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
    powerful.

    There have been arguments made that Trelane was a Q. Maybe even the Q we kno

    Trelane took a serious blow when it was determined his mirror was some sort
    of interface or power source. A Q would not require such a device. the Q Continuum is outside our time and space. Why would 2 Q raise a petulant
    child outside the continuum? why would such a child's behavior be allowed if they are so advanced?

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Wed Aug 19 10:44:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:11 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:25 pm

    Home ec and family living were different. Shop class filled up early so had to take home ec in the 8th grade. The bulk of our time was learning how to cook and use the various kitchen appliances otherwise we were learning how to sew and mend clothing. there was some acedemic stuff su as nutrition thrown in, but family living was much more practical for f a high school senior that was not going the college route. I took the college bound block of classes, but heard from friends the teacher cove writing resumes and filling out applications. Sounds like simple stuff, but can be intimidating to someone who has never done it before.


    i guess this just shows how fucked up our educational systems were.
    in my highschool there werent any 'college route' courses.

    This "college block" even began before entering high school. In 8th grade there is an option of general math or algebra. Kids with the aptitude could also option into the high school foreign language classes. This would push these students into higher math, language, and reading/ writing electives by the time they were seniors. In the technology / shop block there would be drafting 1 and 2, and possibly a 3rd year where there might be one or two stud ents who sit off the side of the class and receive advanced projects. Wood shop 1 and 2 work the same way, where the second year involves more comlex projects and tool usage. We could even opt for welding 1 and 2, and travel
    to an adjacent school district that hosts the program for their students and other adjacent systems.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 16:54:41 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:09 pm

    I think Trump partly is against the establishmnent, not because he's not part of it, but because of conflict of interest. He does seem to have a different worldview. As for the media, the media are part of an established ruling "elite" (and I use the term "elite" loosely). It was during the 2016 when the mask came off, that even they admitted that there IS an establishment. And there is, you get into power by meeting a particular image, a particular way of thinking, a particular mode of though and a particular ethical stance. You can see this in many parts of society. "Professional" is another euphemism. And that particular class of people are failing to deliver.

    Conflict is always in our future. "Only the dead are safe; Only the dead have seen the end of war", said George Santayana.

    We are at this stage PRECISELY because the people who want to keep their power (ie, the establishment), utterly failed. The solution is most definately not to keep the status quo, that will only make things work. The riots and division in Europe and problems with migration are due to this idiotic idea of "open borders". Diversity is THE reason we have more and more laws against speech, why there is so much division between us.
    Identity politics and "socialism" is the reason for so much division.

    It will take some turmoil to set things right, but its too late for any other alternative.

    Have you read Douglas Murray's book The Strange Death of Europe? Much of what you're talking about is discussed in this book. The stagnation of Western society coupled with a general disinterest in national pride, old fashioned values, etc...

    When half of the population appear to support open borders, socialism and censorship, and the other half support capitalism, property ownership, second amendment rights and free-speech... things are going to have to come to a head.

    I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 17:16:57 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:16 pm

    Perhaps, though I worry that a world with no suffering won't last. I'm not saying that people should be made to suffer, but adversity, hardship, struggle does make people better. Wealth and prosperity seems to ruin people. People have banded together in times of trouble, and shared struggle does seem to be able to bring out good in people.

    Should we make a live worth living? Absolutely, but we shouldn't think that it can be done just be removing negative stimuli. We need meaning, purpose, to be able to interact and know the REAL work. We want lives with meaning, purpose, severity and gravitas. A live eating and sitting comfortably with all the entertainment you want is not fulfilling. We want, and need, to exercise the full range of human ability, to be a power and a part of something, where our lifes energy shapes something lasting and important.

    I would much rather a world where I can work with meaning, where I can live honest and true to myself, and be able to express myself freely and debate. Even if that involves competition, struggling and coming against others, there is a purpose. A world which is controlled for comfort cannot allow that. No longer will humans be able to shape the world, impress themselves on it and affect it, shape it, debate and express themselves. They will have to fit a mould, be moulded, and never brush up and push against the narrow path. Despite the physical comfort, the lack of "racism", this I think would make people depressed, a life, while comfortable, has no point at all. Lifes energy going nowhere.

    I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create character, which in turn can create a better person. There are, however, a huge number of truly awful people who think nothing of causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem with our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous acts.

    Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In order to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation could work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopian society as I can imagine.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Wed Aug 19 10:50:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:56 pm

    Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-

    Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely scale.

    The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
    & I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
    intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
    paved with good intentions.

    You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
    things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
    anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!



    I get the impression where they were comparing idealism versus practice. Communism is in theory on the opposite side of fascism, however in our history the comumunist nations operated as fascist dictatorships.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Wed Aug 19 10:58:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:02 pm



    Oh yeah? Who decides who gets to decide what ideas are "less
    reputable"?


    Good point. It's like the old saying, "If everyone was jumping off a cliff, w ould you follow?" A consensus might be misleading. They could also be crippled by their ideology, and not be receptive to ideas which are not
    theirs.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 11:01:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:35 pm

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexi and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.


    Those would also be the people we'd genetically screen out, abort, euthanize, or genetically "fix" so they won't contaminate a "pure" society.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 11:20:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:23 pm



    Tradition does need to be question, but not discarded. Tradition and herita has two functions we don't appreciate. Firstly, tradition within it, has centuries and generations worth of knowledge, gained by trial and error, oft painfully. WE may not be able to explain why certain traditions or cultural mores are the way they are, but they nevertheless behind them, may contain m hard learned wisdon. Heritage also gives us grounding, and anchors us to a particular part of the patchwork of humanity, the part where we may best fit


    While it's important to learn from the past, we don't live in the past. We learn so we don't repeat the same mistakes. As a society grows, tradition
    must be challenged as it is "the way we've always done it." This is tribal thinking. It's like the son of the chief asking why they go on a traditional
    hunt, when it is easier to grow crops and domesticate penned in animals?
    The son's ideas are new and untried, regardless if they make any sense.
    That's not the way they have done things for as long as the chief remembers.

    Heritage does not define who you are. It defines the people before you. It could be argued that everything you are came from them, but that is not true, especially if you have relocated to a different town or even a country. I
    may have Irish and a good deal of Eastern and Central European blood in my family's past, but I am none of them.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 11:36:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm



    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because they believe diversity outweighs experience and knowledge, or they are afraid to
    be ridiculed and judged if they didn't choose diversity. On one project I worked on a department supervisor told me they were sent an edict from HR
    that theu must always hire the most diverse candidate, period. However, if they were asked, they were told to deny it.

    I worked on one project where I'm guessing one of my co-workers was hired due to diversity. He was a smart guy originally from Honduras, however he had a weight restriction of 10lbs due to a car accident. We were rolling out
    desktop systems and would have to pick up as much as 50lbs. He would've been better suited working in the call center than assigned to working on a deployemnt team. We had a similar project involving some interns from a
    local tech school, however they were best used when kept in the staging area performing desktop imaging and outprocessing the old equipment.


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 16:46:27 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm

    Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-

    On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even within the same ideological structures.

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    It is all marketing.

    Like when they want to hear your ideas and to point out ways of improving. It is false. They don't. Why? Because if you point something that needs fixing, you are pointing a defect that somebody will have to fix. That is bad news. What they want to hear is "Everything is nice and working full capacity!"

    Which is incidentally the reason why really good workers end up eating so much dubg from management. They are the ones trying to kake things run, which means locating and reporting problems, which means telling managers things they don't want to hear, which is impopular. The workers who don't give a damn, those earn the sympathies of managers because they never pop up with bad news.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 21:14:26 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Underminer on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:28 am

    sort of interface or power source. A Q would not require such a device. the Q Continuum is outside our time and space. Why would 2 Q raise a petulant child outside the continuum? why would such a child's behavior be

    Amanda Rogers ;)
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    Synchronet The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Underminer on Thu Aug 20 14:16:00 2020
    On 08-19-20 03:52, Underminer wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/UNDRMINE
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to The Lizard Master on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:38 pm

    Haha in DSP and software defined radio, I and Q have to work together. ;) (wonder if anyone else will get that one ;) ).

    Pretty sure there's a few Hams about ;)

    Often the case around BBSs. ;)


    ... Spam will keep in it's can until the end of time.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dennisk on Thu Aug 20 14:16:00 2020
    On 08-19-20 22:33, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
    the value of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".

    Yeah, that's a bit bizarre, though there's signs of change, slowly.


    ... Come on baby light my fire...
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 14:23:00 2020
    On 08-19-20 15:29, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I believe that a huge number of our finest mathematicians and
    physicists are themselves on the autism spectrum. I watched quite an

    Yes, those careers that involve detailed, in depth study are likely to attract autistic people. And some of the historical "suspects" include geniuses like Albert Einstein and Nikola Tesla.

    interesting documentary a while ago about a group of British students competing in the Maths Olympiad. Around half appeared to be autistic.
    They struggled to express themselves and converse with other less
    talented "normal" students, however possessed incredible problem

    Again, hardly surprising. Mathematics is one area that calls out to pattern thinkers on the autism spectrum. I'm one of those myself, though my abilities are better suited to less deep, but complex realtime analysis of complex phenomena. I don't have the depth of study as a mathemitician (I suspect my ADHD side limits that), but I do have the ability to take in and process a lot of statistical information in real time or near real time. This has come handy in activities like radio direction finding ("foxhunting") and general navigation. Also useful for making off the cuff prediction of various trends. My abiities seem to be able to accurately predict COVID-19 spread and human behaviour under different conditions, to bring it to current affairs. :)

    solving ability. So yeah, I agree... neurological diversity is
    important as it only takes one genius (who is able to think outside of
    the box) to push forward human understanding by 50 or so years.

    That was my point precisely. :)


    ... Old hitchhikers never die-they just throw in the towel.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 14:24:00 2020
    On 08-19-20 11:01, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Those would also be the people we'd genetically screen out, abort, euthanize, or genetically "fix" so they won't contaminate a "pure" society.

    Ironically, many of those people would be the ones to make the technology possible in the first place!


    ... Homosexuality must be hereditory -- most gays have heterosexual parents. --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 22:03:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:09 pm

    I think Trump partly is against the establishmnent, not because he's not part of it, but because of conflict of interest. He does seem to have a different worldview. As for the media, the media are part of an established ruling "elite" (and I use the term "elite" loosely). It was during the 2016 when the mask came off, that even they admitted that there IS an establishment. And there is, you get into power by meeting a particular image, a particular way of thinking, a particular mode of though and a particular ethical stance. You can see this in many parts of society. "Professional" is another euphemism. And that particular class of people are failing to deliver.

    Conflict is always in our future. "Only the dead are safe; Only the dead have seen the end of war", said George Santayana.

    We are at this stage PRECISELY because the people who want to keep their power (ie, the establishment), utterly failed. The solution is most definately not to keep the status quo, that will only make things work. The riots and division in Europe and problems with migration are due to this idiotic idea of "open borders". Diversity is THE reason we have more and more laws against speech, why there is so much division between us.
    Identity politics and "socialism" is the reason for so much division.

    It will take some turmoil to set things right, but its too late for any other alternative.

    Have you read Douglas Murray's book The Strange Death of Europe? Much
    of what you're talking about is discussed in this book. The stagnation
    of Western society coupled with a general disinterest in national
    pride, old fashioned values, etc...

    When half of the population appear to support open borders, socialism
    and censorship, and the other half support capitalism, property
    ownership, second amendment rights and free-speech... things are going
    to have to come to a head.

    I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout
    the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.

    I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I had ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with great clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline, don't let the iPhone's fool you.

    People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 22:07:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:16 pm

    Perhaps, though I worry that a world with no suffering won't last. I'm not saying that people should be made to suffer, but adversity, hardship, struggle does make people better. Wealth and prosperity seems to ruin people. People have banded together in times of trouble, and shared struggle does seem to be able to bring out good in people.

    Should we make a live worth living? Absolutely, but we shouldn't think that it can be done just be removing negative stimuli. We need meaning, purpose, to be able to interact and know the REAL work. We want lives with meaning, purpose, severity and gravitas. A live eating and sitting comfortably with all the entertainment you want is not fulfilling. We want, and need, to exercise the full range of human ability, to be a power and a part of something, where our lifes energy shapes something lasting and important.

    I would much rather a world where I can work with meaning, where I can live honest and true to myself, and be able to express myself freely and debate. Even if that involves competition, struggling and coming against others, there is a purpose. A world which is controlled for comfort cannot allow that. No longer will humans be able to shape the world, impress themselves on it and affect it, shape it, debate and express themselves. They will have to fit a mould, be moulded, and never brush up and push against the narrow path. Despite the physical comfort, the lack of "racism", this I think would make people depressed, a life, while comfortable, has no point at all. Lifes energy going nowhere.

    I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental
    adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create
    character, which in turn can create a better person. There are,
    however, a huge number of truly awful people who think nothing of
    causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem with our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous acts.

    Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering.
    In order to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of
    causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something
    like gene manipulation could work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would
    be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopian society as I can imagine.

    Yes, there are a lot of harmful people, who want to control us, dominate us, screw us over. That is why I object to social engineering, to having someone with authority dicate what we can do, how we should think, engineer us, because far, far, far more likely than not, the person who will get to decide how we should go "forward" will be one of these self-serving assholes. And they may not come accross that way. They may come accross as professional, smiley, seemingly rational and selfless.

    You are talking of engineering people. I'm saying that if we think we should be engineered, the worst of society will do the engineering. The people who want to do "good" are often the worst. Some of the nastiest people I've met, are people who claim to fight for minorities and the underclass, etc. Anti-racism is hateful. Inclusion is just discimination by another name.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 22:13:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:23 pm



    Tradition does need to be question, but not discarded. Tradition and herita has two functions we don't appreciate. Firstly, tradition within it, has centuries and generations worth of knowledge, gained by trial and error, oft painfully. WE may not be able to explain why certain traditions or cultural mores are the way they are, but they nevertheless behind them, may contain m hard learned wisdon. Heritage also gives us grounding, and anchors us to a particular part of the patchwork of humanity, the part where we may best fit


    While it's important to learn from the past, we don't live in the past.
    We learn so we don't repeat the same mistakes. As a society grows, tradition must be challenged as it is "the way we've always done it."
    This is tribal thinking. It's like the son of the chief asking why
    they go on a traditional
    hunt, when it is easier to grow crops and domesticate penned in
    animals? The son's ideas are new and untried, regardless if they make
    any sense. That's not the way they have done things for as long as the chief remembers.

    Heritage does not define who you are. It defines the people before
    you. It could be argued that everything you are came from them, but
    that is not true, especially if you have relocated to a different town
    or even a country. I may have Irish and a good deal of Eastern and Central European blood in my family's past, but I am none of them.

    But you are European, Western. You no doubt would identify with the general branch of civilisation which is behind you. As for tradition, traditional socities do adapt. I think there is a misunderstanding of what Tradition is. It isn't being static, not learning, not adapting. It is a different metaphysics. Traditionalists (and I lean that way), believe that we aren't necessarily rootless individuals, but have ties to the past, and the future, and a concomitant duty. Also, it is more a view that humanity doesn't move by some metaphysical force "forward", which is the progressive view. Progressivism views progress as some direction with and goal, and end goal, whereas Traditionalists don't believe that there is this underlying push towards some system, but rather, we learn, adapt. It is about viewing our place in this earth as respect our place, instead of being to move towards a goal (such as more and more liberalism).

    So of course, the hunting methods of the tribe would change. If something works better, it works better. But what I reject, is this idea that there is some external "value" towards a pre-ordained social outcome. We don't actually know where we should head as a society, we don't know what we may need to do next.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 22:16:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm



    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because they believe diversity outweighs experience and knowledge, or
    they are afraid to be ridiculed and judged if they didn't choose diversity. On one project I worked on a department supervisor told me they were sent an edict from HR that theu must always hire the most diverse candidate, period. However, if they were asked, they were told
    to deny it.

    This happens more than you think, the outright discrimination. What is odd is how HR openly states to managers to hire this way. I think the reasons are mostly shallow. Executives and managers want to be seen to be doing the right thing, to be on track with the "current thinking" and do what it takes to have a good brand name. Arguments that it improves the bottom line, I don't know if they believe it or not. There is a lot, a LOT of "motivated reasoning" when it comes to matters like this. You want to believe what is good for your career. People that can actually think for themselves, wont' do well in such positions, just like people in a church who can question and think independently may run afoul of the church if the thought process lead them astray.


    I worked on one project where I'm guessing one of my co-workers was
    hired due to diversity. He was a smart guy originally from Honduras, however he had a weight restriction of 10lbs due to a car accident. We were rolling out desktop systems and would have to pick up as much as 50lbs. He would've been better suited working in the call center than assigned to working on a deployemnt team. We had a similar project involving some interns from a local tech school, however they were best used when kept in the staging area performing desktop imaging and outprocessing the old equipment.

    I have similar stories, but we don't live in a free society, so I'll leave it at that.

    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Arelor on Thu Aug 20 22:19:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm

    Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-

    On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even within the same ideological structures.

    Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    It is all marketing.

    Like when they want to hear your ideas and to point out ways of
    improving. It is false. They don't. Why? Because if you point something that needs fixing, you are pointing a defect that somebody will have to fix. That is bad news. What they want to hear is "Everything is nice
    and working full capacity!"

    Which is incidentally the reason why really good workers end up eating
    so much dubg from management. They are the ones trying to kake things
    run, which means locating and reporting problems, which means telling managers things they don't want to hear, which is impopular. The
    workers who don't give a damn, those earn the sympathies of managers because they never pop up with bad news.


    It could be worse. Pointing out something that needs fixing could be seen as being "negative", and may portray anyone who has responsibility in a bad light.
    Wait until you are in a job where simply warning or a potential major problem is not in line with the companies values, and then the very thing you warned against happens, at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

    I just want out of the corporate world. It is a complete mind-$#%5. How people stay sane in such environments is beyond me.

    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 08:03:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 04:54 pm

    I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.

    What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought to it's knees and will be begging for help. Whatever "chaos" you're referring to I can assure you is only temporary. ... Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 08:14:37 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 11:36 am

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
    the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but
    they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because

    These people are hired because they work for less money. That is it and that is all. Diversity is just an after fart. Errr I mean after thought.


    ... Everybody has a right to pronounce foreign names as he chooses.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 08:20:28 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 04:54 pm

    I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.

    What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought to it's knees and will be begging for help. Whatever "chaos" you're referring to I can assure you is only temporary.

    ... Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.

    HusTler

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 09:17:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 05:16 pm


    I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create character, which in turn ca create a better person. There are, however, a huge number of truly awful peo who think nothing of causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem w our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous ac

    Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.

    I'd hate to see the human race being bred into being a bunch of sheep. We
    are not farm animals to be genetically altered to go to slaughter. We are intelligent, self aware beings who are capable of more than acting on
    instincts and primal urges. It will take awhile for everyone to come
    onboard, however I believe a philosphy based on people treating others the
    wish they be treated can be adopted. The biggest part of this is finding the common thread behind all nations and creeds and establish common ground.
    Henry Rollins, a musician also know n for spoken word performances spoke of
    an idea he had about dropping all the even numbered Ramones albums on one
    side of the Israeli border and all the odd number albums in Palestinian controlled territory. The day will come where the troops will be massing and getting ready to fight, then someone on the opposite side will hear some
    music that sounds familiar, but the song is unknown. Eventually the gates ope n and peace treaties will be authored as a means to exchange the albums the other side has not heard.

    This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish peace
    and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Thu Aug 20 09:27:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 2020 02:24 pm

    On 08-19-20 11:01, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Those would also be the people we'd genetically screen out, abort, euthanize, or genetically "fix" so they won't contaminate a "pure" society.

    Ironically, many of those people would be the ones to make the technology possible in the first place!



    Very true. The abnormally gifted people will be the ones who can recognize
    and categorize the genes that stand out.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 09:57:07 2020
    On 8/18/2020 11:49 AM, Andeddu wrote:

    China is a manufacturing/technological superpower. Once international trade dies off, Chinese firms will have to pay their worker's a fair wage so that they can purchase the goods they produce. They'll be landed with the same economical enviroment the USA had back in the 1950s-1980s when they too were a
    manufacturing superpower.

    I am not an advocate of Communism though.

    I think they'll just turn their mfg to internal fulfillment and needs.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Gamgee on Thu Aug 20 14:50:46 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:56 pm

    The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a
    scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
    & I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
    intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
    paved with good intentions.

    You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
    things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
    anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!

    I've wondered about that a couple times when he has said one thing and then seemed to contradict it in another message..

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dennisk to HusTler on Fri Aug 21 08:44:00 2020
    HusTler wrote to Moondog <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 11:36 am

    On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
    the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but
    they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".



    Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because

    These people are hired because they work for less money. That is it
    and that is all. Diversity is just an after fart. Errr I mean after thought.

    This isn't always true. Companies will also hire for 'inclusivity' at a cost.

    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 08:50:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 05:16 pm


    I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create character, which in turn ca create a better person. There are, however, a huge number of truly awful peo who think nothing of causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem w our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous ac

    Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.

    I'd hate to see the human race being bred into being a bunch of sheep.
    We are not farm animals to be genetically altered to go to slaughter.
    We are intelligent, self aware beings who are capable of more than
    acting on instincts and primal urges. It will take awhile for everyone
    to come onboard, however I believe a philosphy based on people treating others the wish they be treated can be adopted.

    Isn't that basically what Jesus was teaching?

    Mo >The biggest part of
    this is finding the common thread behind all nations and creeds and establish common ground. Henry Rollins, a musician also know n for
    spoken word performances spoke of an idea he had about dropping all the even numbered Ramones albums on one side of the Israeli border and all
    the odd number albums in Palestinian controlled territory. The day
    will come where the troops will be massing and getting ready to fight, then someone on the opposite side will hear some music that sounds familiar, but the song is unknown. Eventually the gates ope n and
    peace treaties will be authored as a means to exchange the albums the other side has not heard.

    This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish
    peace and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.

    IF you breed people into sheep, they will be MORE likely to commit mass violence. Nazi Germany wasn't exactly populated by people who were free to express their own moral and political ideas, and challenge the mandated morality.

    The idea about dropping Ramone's albums sounds cute, but is ridiculous. I think a good start towards a better society is not thinking that celebrities with opinions are a good source of guidance. A society is pretty broken when it thinks that Madonna's opinion of French politics for example, somehow carries any weight.

    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Moondog on Thu Aug 20 20:17:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.

    I'd hate to see the human race being bred into being a bunch of
    sheep.

    So would every other person on the planet, except apparently these "transhumanism" freaks, and Andeddu.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 02:30:58 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:28 am

    And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 to sa ve resources.

    Lol, I haven't seen Logan's Run but I have heard about a number of hypothetical social contracts whereby citizens must sacrifice themselves for the good of the state once they reach the ripe old age of around 60ish. Becoming elderly is viewed as something that upends the natural order... how many old wild animals have you seen?

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 02:42:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:56 am

    Earlier this year I heard the quote: "Ships are safe when anchored
    in protected harbors. But that's what ships are for." By the same theme I view humans as builders and problem solvers. There is an innate curiosity where humans will take risks to seek answers. In order gorw and move on as a civilization, there needs to be some form of suffering or discomfort: a reason
    to discover and implement changes. Places where this is absent are where people toil in poverty and discomfort. As problem solvers, we need to find wa ys to improve conditions in these areas to encourage growth rather than pump
    in money and resources to pacify these people.

    That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 02:54:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:12 am

    However it's that diversity that promotes change and growth. When working in IT in the nuclear power industry, I heard of a concept called "groupthink." It's actually a bad thing, because everyone thinks alike, and will blindly accept an "experts" opinion as gospel without considering an alternative outcome. A good example of this in the scene in Apollo 13 where some figures the only way to get the astronauts home is if they can keep their power consumption below a seemingly impossible threshold. the chief engineer says that's impossible, and his folks accept it. It takes someone outside his authority to apply a questioning attitude to prove they were wrong.

    Back in the 90's I took a quality workgroup training course that implemented bringing in an outside person into a discussion to question the group why they can't see the forest from within the trees. In the forum, all were considered equals in opinion. Of course, the outside guy was always a manger of higher rank, and acted as an authoritarian rather than a moderator. Groupthink killed quality improvement.

    I agree that groupthink is bad and that there has to be an open discourse where ideas can be assessed. The problem with too many ideas is that they can move a civilisaiton/society down the path of destruction. If a successful society accepts that it's imperfect, and implements 10,50,100 or 1000 new acts of legislation or regulation, each act being sensible and progressive, you may end up with a worse society than you started with.

    A socially engineered society is one which will do anything to preserve the rules presently in place, because too many changes could topple the regime or completely alter the course of the civilisation.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Fri Aug 21 03:16:39 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 08:03 am

    What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought to it's knees and will be begging for help. Whatever "chaos" you're referring to I can assure you is only temporary. ... Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.

    HusTler

    We'll see how things pan out... NYC seems to be quite worrying too. If the NYPD lose a billion dollars of their budget, crime will rise back to the levels we saw in the 1980s. These sort of kneejerk decisions are going to have long-term political and economic repercussions. It'll be interesting if these cities end up begging for Federal assistance... however some politicians would rather cut off their nose to spite their face.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Fri Aug 21 03:29:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:03 pm

    I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I had ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with great clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline, don't let the iPhone's fool you.

    People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.

    Yes, I agree that through our very poor educational system, people are going to forget, discard or even repudiate the high culture we once had (The Renaissance, The Age of Enlightenment, etc)... and in doing so, our civilisation will end not with a bang, but with a wimper.

    I mean just compare Rembrant's masterpieces to present day art, for example!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Fri Aug 21 03:42:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:07 pm

    Yes, there are a lot of harmful people, who want to control us, dominate us, screw us over. That is why I object to social engineering, to having someone with authority dicate what we can do, how we should think, engineer us, because far, far, far more likely than not, the person who will get to decide how we should go "forward" will be one of these self-serving assholes. And they may not come accross that way. They may come accross as professional, smiley, seemingly rational and selfless.

    You are talking of engineering people. I'm saying that if we think we should be engineered, the worst of society will do the engineering. The people who want to do "good" are often the worst. Some of the nastiest people I've met, are people who claim to fight for minorities and the underclass, etc. Anti-racism is hateful. Inclusion is just discimination by another name.

    I believe that we can engineer a better breed of human. I am not particularly interested in intelligence or anything in relation to race. I would just like to believe that we could consistently produce kind and caring human beings... altruists who do good for the sake of it, asking for nothing else in return.

    These people are rare, as most people are equally bad as they are good. This is hypothetical, of course, as the person or people likely to promote such an agenda would have to be benevolent & kind themselves... traits that are generally absent in those who wield true power.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 03:54:33 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 09:17 am

    This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish peace and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.

    As much as I was nodding to myself while reading your post, I think you're being a little naive. Humans will never stop killing each other. Even if it's over the tiniest difference, we will never EVER stop harming each other in sick and twisted ways. We have never come close to achieving a utopia, never come close to peace. The world is more fractured today than ever before... relations are going backwards, not forwards!

    I don't have much faith that we'll ever settle our differences. I mean, where would you even begin?

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 19:34:00 2020
    On 08-20-20 09:27, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Very true. The abnormally gifted people will be the ones who can recognize and categorize the genes that stand out.

    Exactly, and what's been happening in Silicon Valley in recent years is more evidence that suggests neurodvergent people are a significant contributing factor to today's technology. Basically, it is a known fact that there is an unusually high prevalence of autism in Silicon Valley, and that is put down to there being a concentration of autistic traits among the engineers and other tech people who live and work there. And as most people meet their partners through local and work connections, those people are having kids together, concentrating those traits.

    Some food for thought...

    https://www.womenofsiliconvalley.com/blog/neurodiversity-in-silicon-valley

    And here's a different perspective. I met Steve Silberman at an autism conference in Melbourne in 2016, and have a signed copy of his book (mentioned in the second article below). One chapter of the book talks about activities and interests like ham radio and pop culture, as well as te Internet, where autistic people congregated. And I have no doubt BBSs are in that category too! :)

    https://tinyurl.com/y7798kza


    ... Some people grow under responsibility. Others merely swell up.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 04:00:09 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:30 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:28 am

    And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 sa ve resources.

    Lol, I haven't seen Logan's Run but I have heard about a number of hypotheti social contracts whereby citizens must sacrifice themselves for the good of state once they reach the ripe old age of around 60ish. Becoming elderly is viewed as something that upends the natural order... how many old wild anima have you seen?


    Elder animals are somehow common in social species. For example, chimps. Primates have an evolutionary pass for old members because old individuals are useful - they can take care of the youngsters while everybody else is busy.

    Guess what, that is what I see a lot of in Spain. Gandpas taking care of the babies when mom and dad are working to put food on the table.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 07:15:42 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:42 am

    that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    Preferable to who? You? I would hate living in a world like that and would likely off myself. But hey..that's just me.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 07:25:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Fri Aug 21 2020 03:16 am

    What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought

    We'll see how things pan out... NYC seems to be quite worrying too. If the N lose a billion dollars of their budget, crime will rise back to the levels w saw in the 1980s. These sort of kneejerk decisions are going to have long-te political and economic repercussions. It'll be interesting if these cities e up begging for Federal assistance... however some politicians would rather c off their nose to spite their face.

    I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President) for his short comings. The whole thing is a travesty. He protects non-citizens but doesn't have the money to feed them, house them, provide healthcare for them. So he takes a billion dollars away from the cops. He thinks he can get what he wants out of NYC police because he's a tough guy. Well, guess what? The NYC police has endorsed Donald Trump. So yea..let's see how things pan out.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 08:06:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    That's the problem with social engineering. As an
    administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
    status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
    of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially
    engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
    chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
    in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
    wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
    that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    No, it wouldn't. Wrong, again.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 08:14:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    I agree that groupthink is bad and that there has to be an open
    discourse where ideas can be assessed.

    And yet you promote a society where there can *BE* no open
    discourse, because everyone is a drone/sheep that has been
    assimilated into the Borg "for the benefit of all".

    Does that make any sense, even to you?

    The problem with too many ideas is that they can move a civilisaiton/society down the path of destruction.

    Wrong. You can never have "too many ideas".

    If a successful society accepts that it's
    imperfect, and implements 10,50,100 or 1000 new acts of
    legislation or regulation, each act being sensible and
    progressive, you may end up with a worse society than you started
    with.

    I suppose that is possible, but not likely. Did you ever stop to
    wonder how a "successful society" (your words) got to be that way
    in the first place? Maybe they know what they're doing?

    A socially engineered society is one which will do anything to
    preserve the rules presently in place, because too many changes
    could topple the regime or completely alter the course of the civilisation.

    Yeah, let's not have "too many changes" in society. It would be
    so much better to just STAGNATE and have everyone be the same.
    Right? Do you even SEE the idiocy of your statements?

    You claim to not be a "communist", and yet ALWAYS use words like
    "socially engineered society" and "regime", etc...

    STFU and go away.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 08:53:48 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 03:54 am

    close to peace. The world is more fractured today than ever before... relati are going backwards, not forwards!

    The world is more peaceful this century than it ever was.

    The Middle Ages consistend in warlords who swore fealty among each other and waged war against other warlords all day long.

    In antique times they had rampant slavery, they killed you for holding the wrong opinion, and big empires took lands, killed all the men and enslaved the women and children.

    We are much better today than we used to be.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Hatton@VERT/THRCORN to HusTler on Fri Aug 21 21:09:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 07:25 am

    I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President) for his short comings. The whole thing is a travesty.

    I'm on the other side of the state and have basically stopped watching the news. I don't know how MDB managed to get elected twice.

    Hatton

    ---
    Synchronet Three Corners and Beyond! http://3corners.us
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Sat Aug 22 02:02:57 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 04:00 am

    Elder animals are somehow common in social species. For example, chimps. Primates have an evolutionary pass for old members because old individuals are useful - they can take care of the youngsters while everybody else is busy.

    Guess what, that is what I see a lot of in Spain. Gandpas taking care of the babies when mom and dad are working to put food on the table.

    Yes, any elderly animals I do see tend to be social herd anmimals and primates... I don't believe there are too many elderly predators as once they lose their strength and pace, they go hungry and die.

    It seems like the Spanish spend more time with their elderly relatives than here in the UK. I see it's part of the culture over there to have large family gatherings and dinners whereas over here it happens a lot less frequently.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Sat Aug 22 02:06:53 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 07:15 am

    Preferable to who? You? I would hate living in a world like that and would likely off myself. But hey..that's just me.

    Yes, preferable to me. As, in that example, the other option was to live in a nuclear wasteland.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Sat Aug 22 02:14:35 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 07:25 am

    I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President) for his short comings. The whole thing is a travesty. He protects non-citizens but doesn't have the money to feed them, house them, provide healthcare for them. So he takes a billion dollars away from the cops. He thinks he can get what he wants out of NYC police because he's a tough guy. Well, guess what? The NYC police has endorsed Donald Trump. So yea..let's see how things pan out.

    HusTler

    I did see that the US policing federation formally endorsed Trump, which is quite a statement as they usually remain impartial. New York is such a beautiful city, I really hope a more responsible mayor takes over - someone with a law & order mindset with an interest in looking after tax paying citizens. A mayor has to be pragmatic, there aren't enough resources to please everyone!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Sat Aug 22 02:17:03 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:06 am

    That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
    status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
    of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
    chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
    in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
    wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
    that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    No, it wouldn't. Wrong, again.

    Okay... have fun scavenging in a barren nuclear wasteland!

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Sat Aug 22 02:47:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:14 am

    And yet you promote a society where there can *BE* no open
    discourse, because everyone is a drone/sheep that has been
    assimilated into the Borg "for the benefit of all".

    Does that make any sense, even to you?

    I suppose that is possible, but not likely. Did you ever stop to
    wonder how a "successful society" (your words) got to be that way
    in the first place? Maybe they know what they're doing?

    Yeah, let's not have "too many changes" in society. It would be
    so much better to just STAGNATE and have everyone be the same.
    Right? Do you even SEE the idiocy of your statements?

    Right... so let's say we have a society which you find agreeable. As society is malleable, and new laws/restrictions/regulations change the makeup of that society. Would it not be HIGHY likely that you could end up with something that doesn't resemble what you had in the beginning? The answer is yes.

    The Roman Empire was a successful civilisation, however through years and years of cultural errosion, over expansion and financial mismanagement, they became weaker and weaker, until eventually they were no more.

    All civilisations are finite. The successful ones rise before going through development stages as part of a cycle prior to their inevitable decline and fall. A socially engineered society does not have to be one which is stagnant, for example, there could be an emphasis on science and technological development... I was speaking more of the pillars of society remaining unchanged, rather than preserving everything and never progressing one iota as a civilisation.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Sat Aug 22 02:55:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:53 am

    The world is more peaceful this century than it ever was.
    The Middle Ages consistend in warlords who swore fealty among each other and waged war against other warlords all day long.

    In antique times they had rampant slavery, they killed you for holding the wrong opinion, and big empires took lands, killed all the men and enslaved the women and children.

    We are much better today than we used to be.

    The 20th century is the most murderous in world history. Two world wars, a huge number of violent revolutions and ethnic cleansing resulted in around 190 million deaths. The middle ages were rather tame in comparison.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Fri Aug 21 11:46:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:50 am



    IF you breed people into sheep, they will be MORE likely to commit mass violence. Nazi Germany wasn't exactly populated by people who were free to express their own moral and political ideas, and challenge the mandated morality.

    The idea about dropping Ramone's albums sounds cute, but is ridiculous. I think a good start towards a better society is not thinking that celebrities with opinions are a good source of guidance. A society is pretty broken whe it thinks that Madonna's opinion of French politics for example, somehow carries any weight.


    Rollins is an entertainer, although he attempts political commentary. I
    listen to his spoken word for entertainment only. I found the idea entertaining something simple as finding a comnon ground of music
    appreciation could help find greater common ground. In truth, most enemies
    are so clouded by hate, they would find a way to spin that common ground into more hate.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 12:23:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:30 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:28 am

    And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 sa ve resources.

    Lol, I haven't seen Logan's Run but I have heard about a number of hypotheti social contracts whereby citizens must sacrifice themselves for the good of state once they reach the ripe old age of around 60ish. Becoming elderly is viewed as something that upends the natural order... how many old wild anima have you seen?

    There are exceptions to the rule.

    The CEO of Jimmy John's received flak about going on safari trips and paying
    to hunt endangered black rhinos. Even tough endangered, an old bull rhino is considered a threat to the herd because he can no longer reproduce, yet powerful enough to mortally wound younger bulls that approach his cows. The game wardens and local villagers are the ones who make decisions on herd management, and authorize the overly aggressive bulls to be taken.

    In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the original story. Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with multiple partners is a common activity. Children are genetically designed from harvested DNA and grown in artficial wombs, and the children are raised by the system without parents. In one
    part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. It
    looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the residents there live off the grid.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 12:36:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:42 am


    That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, yo objective would be to retain the status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    Sterile systems can also lead to extinction.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 12:38:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:54 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:12 am

    However it's that diversity that promotes change and growth. When workin in IT in the nuclear power industry, I heard of a concept called "groupthink." It's actually a bad thing, because everyone thinks alike, will blindly accept an "experts" opinion as gospel without considering an alternative outcome. A good example of this in the scene in Apollo 13 wh some figures the only way to get the astronauts home is if they can keep their power consumption below a seemingly impossible threshold. the chie engineer says that's impossible, and his folks accept it. It takes someo outside his authority to apply a questioning attitude to prove they were wrong.

    Back in the 90's I took a quality workgroup training course that implemen bringing in an outside person into a discussion to question the group why they can't see the forest from within the trees. In the forum, all were considered equals in opinion. Of course, the outside guy was always a manger of higher rank, and acted as an authoritarian rather than a moderator. Groupthink killed quality improvement.

    I agree that groupthink is bad and that there has to be an open discourse wh ideas can be assessed. The problem with too many ideas is that they can move civilisaiton/society down the path of destruction. If a successful society accepts that it's imperfect, and implements 10,50,100 or 1000 new acts of legislation or regulation, each act being sensible and progressive, you may up with a worse society than you started with.

    A socially engineered society is one which will do anything to preserve the rules presently in place, because too many changes could topple the regime o completely alter the course of the civilisation.

    A society that is too slow to react to change can also be a detriment.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 12:54:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 03:54 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 09:17 am

    This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish peac and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.

    As much as I was nodding to myself while reading your post, I think you're being a little naive. Humans will never stop killing each other. Even if it' over the tiniest difference, we will never EVER stop harming each other in s and twisted ways. We have never come close to achieving a utopia, never come close to peace. The world is more fractured today than ever before... relati are going backwards, not forwards!

    I don't have much faith that we'll ever settle our differences. I mean, wher would you even begin?

    Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things
    to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence? Questions like these will
    need to be answered first before we can consider making changes.

    I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is not
    just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer. I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 21 13:03:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 07:34 pm

    On 08-20-20 09:27, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Very true. The abnormally gifted people will be the ones who can recognize and categorize the genes that stand out.

    Exactly, and what's been happening in Silicon Valley in recent years is more evidence that suggests neurodvergent people are a significant contributing factor to today's technology. Basically, it is a known fact that there is a unusually high prevalence of autism in Silicon Valley, and that is put down there being a concentration of autistic traits among the engineers and other tech people who live and work there. And as most people meet their partners through local and work connections, those people are having kids together, concentrating those traits.

    Some food for thought...

    https://www.womenofsiliconvalley.com/blog/neurodiversity-in-silicon-valley

    And here's a different perspective. I met Steve Silberman at an autism conference in Melbourne in 2016, and have a signed copy of his book (mention in the second article below). One chapter of the book talks about activitie and interests like ham radio and pop culture, as well as te Internet, where autistic people congregated. And I have no doubt BBSs are in that category too! :)

    https://tinyurl.com/y7798kza


    ... Some people grow under responsibility. Others merely swell up.

    I've seen many times in discussion forums where some posters lack any form of social etiquette, or drone on after the subject had been changed. Borderline Asperger's Syndrome.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sat Aug 22 18:03:00 2020
    On 08-21-20 13:03, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've seen many times in discussion forums where some posters lack any
    form of social etiquette, or drone on after the subject had been
    changed. Borderline Asperger's Syndrome.

    This medium is likely to attract people on the spectrum, because of the high level of technical expertise required, especially for those of us who did it back in the 80s and 90s. :)


    ... Warranty: If it breaks, both halves are yours.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Sat Aug 22 18:12:00 2020
    On 08-21-20 04:00, Arelor wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Elder animals are somehow common in social species. For example,
    chimps. Primates have an evolutionary pass for old members because old individuals are useful - they can take care of the youngsters while everybody else is busy.

    This is the evolutionary explanation I've read for who humans live for so long past child rearing age.

    Guess what, that is what I see a lot of in Spain. Gandpas taking care
    of the babies when mom and dad are working to put food on the table.

    And a lot of traditional societies have their elders participate more in clild rearing and other aspects of running the village. Many respect their elders too, unlike many Western societies, who lock them up in "norsing homes". :/


    ... A sine curve goes off to infinity or at least the end of the blackboard. --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to HusTler on Sat Aug 22 18:17:00 2020
    On 08-21-20 07:15, HusTler wrote to Andeddu <=-

    @VIA: VERT/HAVENS
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:42 am

    that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    Preferable to who? You? I would hate living in a world like that and would likely off myself. But hey..that's just me.

    I'm with you, that sounds like Hell, or worse - mind numbingly boring and stale. The very things I have an intolerance for. Either I'd find a way to disruot the system, or top myself. :D I am at my most devious when unwarranted conformity is placed upon me.


    ... A lobster is a crawfish on steroids.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sat Aug 22 18:27:00 2020
    On 08-21-20 12:54, Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people
    fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence?
    Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can
    consider making changes.

    I agree, and there's plrnty of evidence that suggests a lot of modern day social issues are because of the way our society is structured, and they are mostly fixable, if there is the social and political will to do so. Modern society can be very alienating - we no longer have the village that nurtured us - despite our connectivity, we are in many ways isolated in deeper ways that affect us.

    I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is
    not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that
    would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer.
    I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot
    stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.

    I think we have to look after emotional and mental health issues better for both men and women, but in different ways for each.


    ... A beer delayed is a beer denied.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 13:43:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:56 am

    Earlier this year I heard the quote: "Ships are safe when anchored
    in protected harbors. But that's what ships are for." By the same theme I view humans as builders and problem solvers. There is an innate curiosity where humans will take risks to seek answers. In order gorw and move on as a civilization, there needs to be some form of suffering or discomfort: a reason
    to discover and implement changes. Places where this is absent are where people toil in poverty and discomfort. As problem solvers, we need to find wa ys to improve conditions in these areas to encourage growth rather than pump
    in money and resources to pacify these people.

    That's the problem with social engineering. As an
    administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the status
    quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion of
    conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered
    is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of chaotic world we
    live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out in a
    major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    Anddedu, you are such a confused individual. I don't know how your brain holds itself together.

    All totalitarian regimes enforce a status quo, and want a stable society that takes no risks (to upset the status quo).

    You are LITERALLY advocating totalitarian dictatorship, and then, at the same time, wanting to avoid conflict.

    So you want dicatorships, but will pathologise any individuals or nations, that won't succumb, and blame THEM for violence, if they resist enslavement!!

    My God man!!!!


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 13:43:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:03 pm

    I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I had ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with great clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline, don't let the iPhone's fool you.

    People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.

    Yes, I agree that through our very poor educational system, people are going to forget, discard or even repudiate the high culture we once had (The Renaissance, The Age of Enlightenment, etc)... and in doing so,
    our civilisation will end not with a bang, but with a wimper.

    I mean just compare Rembrant's masterpieces to present day art, for example!

    I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 08:48:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-

    The world is more peaceful this century than it ever was.
    The Middle Ages consistend in warlords who swore fealty among each other and waged war against other warlords all day long.

    In antique times they had rampant slavery, they killed you for holding the wrong opinion, and big empires took lands, killed all the men and enslaved the women and children.

    We are much better today than we used to be.

    The 20th century is the most murderous in world history. Two
    world wars, a huge number of violent revolutions and ethnic
    cleansing resulted in around 190 million deaths. The middle ages
    were rather tame in comparison.

    Guess what! You're a little behind. It's now the 21st Century.

    Also you should brush up on your history a little. Ever heard of
    the Inquisition/Crusades? How about the Black Death? Perhaps
    other major diseases and famine? Maybe an average lifespan of
    35-ish years old? Does the name Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian
    conquests mean anything?





    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 09:05:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
    status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
    of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
    chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
    in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
    wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
    that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.

    No, it wouldn't. Wrong, again.

    Okay... have fun scavenging in a barren nuclear wasteland!

    Honestly, I would rather do that than be a mindless sheep
    controlled by some dictator/Borg. Seriously.

    But it's not likely to happen, because your statement above is
    flawed/wrong anyway. I don't agree that there's a "good chance"
    we'll wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict.

    A society that takes no risks doesn't last very long.



    ... Time flies like an arrow -- fruit flies like a banana.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Sat Aug 22 07:21:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the
    original story.

    It was 21, but the actors they wanted were older than that, so they
    changed it. The math didn't work out quite right, as it was supposed
    to be 7 years per color.

    Jenny Agutter.

    Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with
    multiple partners is a common activity.

    Jenny Agutter.

    Children are genetically
    designed from harvested DNA and grown in artficial wombs, and the
    children are raised by the system without parents. In one part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. It
    looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the
    residents there live off the grid.

    Jenny Agutter.




    ... Would you like to wake up from this dream?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 08:36:47 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Sat Aug 22 2020 02:14 am

    I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until
    the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President)

    Well, guess what? The NYC police has endorsed Donald Trump.

    I did see that the US policing federation formally endorsed Trump, which is quite a statement as they usually remain impartial. New York is such a

    It makes the statement "we need law enforcement". The fact of the matter is blacks disrespect police and resist arrest. I don't want New York City to turn into another Portland or Seattle. These people must be stopped and law enforcement is the only way to do that.


    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Sat Aug 22 14:43:26 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Sat Aug 22 2020 06:12 pm

    And a lot of traditional societies have their elders participate more in cli rearing and other aspects of running the village. Many respect their elders too, unlike many Western societies, who lock them up in "norsing homes". :/

    Most people don't lock their elders in nursing homes because they want to. Many elders become non-functional and their families just can't take proper care
    of them.

    Lots of people complain about nursing homes and elders that don't get frequent visits from their sons, but if grandpa's brain turns into a potato there is just no point in paying him lots of visits, since he does not register the fact he is being visited anymore.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Sat Aug 22 12:06:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Sat Aug 22 2020 06:03 pm

    On 08-21-20 13:03, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've seen many times in discussion forums where some posters lack any form of social etiquette, or drone on after the subject had been changed. Borderline Asperger's Syndrome.

    This medium is likely to attract people on the spectrum, because of the high level of technical expertise required, especially for those of us who did it back in the 80s and 90s. :)


    ... Warranty: If it breaks, both halves are yours.

    I was able to click on a link on Benj's website, and open a telnet window. I wouldn't consider that expertise. I get what you're saying, though. It's a bit off the beaten path, and I think that also attracts a different crowd, whether they are retro computing or appreciate the perks and quirks of the interface.


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Sat Aug 22 12:15:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to HusTler on Sat Aug 22 2020 06:17 pm



    I'm with you, that sounds like Hell, or worse - mind numbingly boring and stale. The very things I have an intolerance for. Either I'd find a way to disruot the system, or top myself. :D I am at my most devious when unwarran conformity is placed upon me.


    It sounds like you would be the perfect candidate for space exploration or oce an exploration. Mankind is not made for staying in a cradle all it's life. Remote colonies with the most adversity will require leaders and mavericks
    that can think on the go, since doing nothing can deliver the same results
    as doing the wrong thing.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Boraxman on Sat Aug 22 12:21:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:43 pm

    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:03 pm

    I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I ha ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with gr clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline don't let the iPhone's fool you.

    People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.

    Yes, I agree that through our very poor educational system, people are going to forget, discard or even repudiate the high culture we once had (The Renaissance, The Age of Enlightenment, etc)... and in doing so, our civilisation will end not with a bang, but with a wimper.

    I mean just compare Rembrant's masterpieces to present day art, for example!

    I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    The Rennaisance followed the Crusades, and the revolution in math and science are byproducts of crusaders bringing back knowledge and technology from the Mi ddle East. Someone else did all the hard thinking, and a bunch of Europeans patted themsleves on the back for applying someone else' work they stole.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Sat Aug 22 12:25:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 09:05 am



    Okay... have fun scavenging in a barren nuclear wasteland!

    Honestly, I would rather do that than be a mindless sheep
    controlled by some dictator/Borg. Seriously.

    But it's not likely to happen, because your statement above is
    flawed/wrong anyway. I don't agree that there's a "good chance"
    we'll wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict.

    A society that takes no risks doesn't last very long.


    I agree. Ships are safe when sitting in a harbor. That is not what ships
    are for. Doing nothing or making no decision is making a poor decision.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Sun Aug 23 15:59:00 2020
    On 08-22-20 14:43, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Most people don't lock their elders in nursing homes because they want
    to. Many elders become non-functional and their families just can't
    take proper care of them.

    And that is because our society has divided us. What if we were a village that looked after our elders collectively, as well as the kids?

    And nursing homes here are getting a bad rap right now, especially the privatised ones, because they've become hot spots fro COVID-19. In Victoria, where I am, only a hadful of cases can be attributed to the state government run nursing homes, but the private ones are in all sorts of bother. And the Federal government who oversees aged care have known about chronic underfunding and other issues with the privatised system for years. And there is a Royal Commission into aged care that started last year, long before COVID.


    ... Good judgement comes from experience which comes from poor judgement
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Aug 23 16:04:00 2020
    On 08-22-20 12:06, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I was able to click on a link on Benj's website, and open a telnet
    window. I wouldn't consider that expertise. I get what you're saying, though. It's a bit off the beaten path, and I think that also attracts
    a different crowd, whether they are retro computing or appreciate the perks and quirks of the interface.

    I was talking as a _sysop_, especially with the older software (Mystic and Synchronet make it dead easy by comparison). And even as a user back then, you often had to deal with IRQ and COM purt issues, installing the right UARTs, if you wanted high speed comms. Many BBS users were also computer tinkerers, and BBSing was an extension of that hobby (and a useful source of shareware!).

    We of the 2020s can forget how easy we have it, where the technical complexity of networking is hidden away (you should see a KA9Q NOS config file - talk about the ins and outs of a duck's bum there! :D


    ... I do not think it means what you think it means.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Aug 23 16:08:00 2020
    On 08-22-20 12:15, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    It sounds like you would be the perfect candidate for space exploration
    or oce an exploration. Mankind is not made for staying in a cradle all it's life. Remote colonies with the most adversity will require leaders and mavericks that can think on the go, since doing nothing can deliver the same results as doing the wrong thing.

    I am known for quietly circumventing social conventions, where appropriate. I will more or less play ball, but keep options up my sleeve, just in case. Or I'll find ways around their objections without going against their wishes - I've had times where my solution was hard to argue against, once it was understood. :) Some are now standard practice in some ham radio circles. :D


    ... Ignorance is no excuse-it's the real thing.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Aug 23 01:54:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Aug 22 2020 07:21 am



    Jenny Agutter.



    Yes. Nice casting! I nearly forgot Farrah Fawcett appears as the doctor's assistant hwne they went to change their appearance.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Sun Aug 23 08:50:03 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Sun Aug 23 2020 03:59 pm

    And that is because our society has divided us. What if we were a village t looked after our elders collectively, as well as the kids?

    Letting the tribe look after the kids collectively sounds like such an ugly idea.

    Same with elders, really. By the time you cannot afford to have your elder in home, you are past the point you can ask a neighbor to look after him.

    I wouldn't have let my grandmother anywhere else but under professional care when she went past the point we could take care of her.

    I know who my neighbors are and I would not trust a candy bar to them.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Mon Aug 24 01:56:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:23 pm

    In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the original story. Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with multiple partners is a common activity. Children are genetically designed from harvested DNA and grown in artficial wombs, and the children are raised by the system without parents. In one
    part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. It looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the residents there live off the grid.

    I'll have to watch the movie. I will pick it up sometime soon and see it because I am interested in the subject matter, and it's a fairly famous film. I just think 30 is a little young as the idea is that you sacrifice yourself for the good of society once you become a net deficit due to old age.

    It's interesting to see that these ideas have been around for almost 90 years and technology has only just caught up. I wonder if some of these outlandish schemes are going to be put into practice in ther future.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Mon Aug 24 02:07:11 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:38 pm

    A society that is too slow to react to change can also be a detriment.

    There has to be moderation. The Catholic church, for instance, was unable to accept new ideas. It inflicted death unto those who refused to believe its version of the faith... as Christianity is (technically) set in stone though the old literature, zealous believers did everything they could to preserve the original structure and core ideals.

    I think the core ideals of a civilisaiton should remain the same, however, other (less important) aspects can be open to adaptation. Change everything and you end up with chaos.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Mon Aug 24 02:17:15 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:54 pm

    Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence? Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can consider making changes.

    I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer. I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.

    People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have been murdering each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will never be peace.

    A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the strict confines of a civilised society.

    So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically alter people to be kinder and more empathetic, and have a universal belief system...

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Mon Aug 24 02:34:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:43 pm

    Anddedu, you are such a confused individual. I don't know how your brain holds itself together.

    All totalitarian regimes enforce a status quo, and want a stable society that takes no risks (to upset the status quo).

    You are LITERALLY advocating totalitarian dictatorship, and then, at the same time, wanting to avoid conflict.

    So you want dicatorships, but will pathologise any individuals or nations, that won't succumb, and blame THEM for violence, if they resist enslavement!!

    My God man!!!!

    I have spoken earlier about this. In order to achieve a totalitarian state, whether benevolant or not, there will have to be a transitional period. This transitional period will be a period of crisis and conflict followed by normalisation of the new way of life, which is dictated by the new regime.

    I am not advocating anything by the way... I am merely discussing ideas in relation to difficult questions. I don't consider myself right or wrong - it's just a debate on ideological beliefs regarding economic, political and social systems.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Mon Aug 24 02:36:18 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:43 pm

    I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.

    No, they didn't really have "The Borg" mentalitiy... which is a shame.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 24 02:41:47 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 08:48 am

    The 20th century is the most murderous in world history. Two
    world wars, a huge number of violent revolutions and ethnic
    cleansing resulted in around 190 million deaths. The middle ages
    were rather tame in comparison.

    Guess what! You're a little behind. It's now the 21st Century.

    Also you should brush up on your history a little. Ever heard of
    the Inquisition/Crusades? How about the Black Death? Perhaps
    other major diseases and famine? Maybe an average lifespan of
    35-ish years old? Does the name Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian
    conquests mean anything?

    We will have to wait and see if the 21st Century is the most vicious and bloody, won't we? It's not like we can call it right now... we are only 20 years in ffs.

    The Black Death was a disease that killed millions of people, not an example of humans being mindless butchers.

    Yes, I have heard of all of those Crusades and Conquests, yet they still pale in comparison to the 20th Century... I never said we weren't violent in the past. In actuality, I said, we have always been violent and have never achieved peace in all of human history.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Mon Aug 24 03:08:01 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 08:36 am

    It makes the statement "we need law enforcement". The fact of the matter is blacks disrespect police and resist arrest. I don't want New York City to turn into another Portland or Seattle. These people must be stopped and law enforcement is the only way to do that.

    We need safer communities, and for that to happen... we need more police, not fewer. A lower level of crime would attract businesses which would rejuvinate the area. I don't see how reducing the policing budget could EVER reduce crime as it would only reinforce the spiral of violence, poverty and destitution.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Mon Aug 24 19:21:00 2020
    On 08-23-20 08:50, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Letting the tribe look after the kids collectively sounds like such an ugly idea.

    It worked for most of humanity's existence. Our currently tightly controlled nuclear families are a very recent development, and more of a Western idea. Even today, many other cultures have much stronger extended families than we
    o.

    I know who my neighbors are and I would not trust a candy bar to them.

    Again, in the context of a very sick and unnatural society. :/


    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 21:49:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:07 pm

    Yes, there are a lot of harmful people, who want to control us, dominate us, screw us over. That is why I object to social engineering, to having someone with authority dicate what we can do, how we should think, engineer us, because far, far, far more likely than not, the person who will get to decide how we should go "forward" will be one of these self-serving assholes. And they may not come accross that way. They may come accross as professional, smiley, seemingly rational and selfless.

    You are talking of engineering people. I'm saying that if we think we should be engineered, the worst of society will do the engineering. The people who want to do "good" are often the worst. Some of the nastiest people I've met, are people who claim to fight for minorities and the underclass, etc. Anti-racism is hateful. Inclusion is just discimination by another name.

    I believe that we can engineer a better breed of human. I am not particularly interested in intelligence or anything in relation to
    race. I would just like to believe that we could consistently produce
    kind and caring human beings... altruists who do good for the sake of
    it, asking for nothing else in return.

    These people are rare, as most people are equally bad as they are good. This is hypothetical, of course, as the person or people likely to
    promote such an agenda would have to be benevolent & kind themselves... traits that are generally absent in those who wield true power.

    The problem is, in my experience, kind and caring people get screwed over by those that are now. I would like that outcome, I really, really, really would.
    But these kind and caring people wouldn't compete for positions of power in society (they would lose), or for status. Like it or not, being willing to lie, cheat, steal, decieve and be a parasite still get you far. Why? Because most people have the awareness of a bag of rocks, and the same courage. So many people just don't recognise when someone is playing them, or even if they do, they don't do anything, becuase perhaps that speaking up against it would draw attention to you, and you don't want that.

    I think self-awareness and bravery are what we need. People who can tell what is going on around them, and don't just bend to the crowd, or "play the game". See, this is contrary to a society where everyone agrees.

    IF you have people like this, the kind, caring, conscienscous people will stand a better chance..

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Moondog on Mon Aug 24 21:49:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:50 am



    IF you breed people into sheep, they will be MORE likely to commit mass violence. Nazi Germany wasn't exactly populated by people who were free to express their own moral and political ideas, and challenge the mandated morality.

    The idea about dropping Ramone's albums sounds cute, but is ridiculous. I think a good start towards a better society is not thinking that celebrities with opinions are a good source of guidance. A society is pretty broken whe it thinks that Madonna's opinion of French politics for example, somehow carries any weight.


    Rollins is an entertainer, although he attempts political commentary.
    I listen to his spoken word for entertainment only. I found the idea entertaining something simple as finding a comnon ground of music appreciation could help find greater common ground. In truth, most enemies are so clouded by hate, they would find a way to spin that
    common ground into more hate.

    I think ideology and false beliefs are the start, the hate is just there to motivate the flawed ideas.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 22:09:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:43 pm

    Anddedu, you are such a confused individual. I don't know how your brain holds itself together.

    All totalitarian regimes enforce a status quo, and want a stable society that takes no risks (to upset the status quo).

    You are LITERALLY advocating totalitarian dictatorship, and then, at the same time, wanting to avoid conflict.

    So you want dicatorships, but will pathologise any individuals or nations, that won't succumb, and blame THEM for violence, if they resist enslavement!!

    My God man!!!!

    I have spoken earlier about this. In order to achieve a totalitarian state, whether benevolant or not, there will have to be a transitional period. This transitional period will be a period of crisis and
    conflict followed by normalisation of the new way of life, which is dictated by the new regime.

    I am not advocating anything by the way... I am merely discussing ideas
    in relation to difficult questions. I don't consider myself right or
    wrong - it's just a debate on ideological beliefs regarding economic, political and social systems.

    You do realise that a fascist state is being assembled right now, as we speak? And their desire is to have people conforming according to their ideals of what is right, and what people need to do to ensure tranquility and a good future (as they see it).

    What you are advocating is happening right now.

    Your problem is that you believe that you have to force people into it, that good behaviour comes through control and power from above. That never lasts.

    I'm not disagreeing with the end goal of a peaceful, benevolent society. I'm suggesting that the way humans THINK you get there is wrong. The solution is actually counter-intuitive. This is why revolutions and attempts at utopia fail. People try to enforce what they think is good, and they think if you espouse good ideas, you get good results.

    But that is NOT how the world works. You do not get tolerance by making people tolerance. You don't get cohesiveness by punishing those who dissent. You don't get co-existance of the races, by pushing diversity and inclusivity. People who say things which sound nice, lead us towards disaster.

    What you need to do, is look at creating the CONDITIONS which make people content, happy, more tolerant and more easy going. And you do that not by pusing Political Correctness or Tolerance, or morals, but by creating good living conditions. Look at empowering people. Look at giving people the right to think and speak. Look at wealth equality and a system of property rights which is just and fair. Remove corruption (that is a BIG one). These things actually need force, power, and strong people, and antagonism to bring about. And perhaps we need a hardness, a level of intolerance, a level of hate against that which we should hate. Hate can be good if it removes evil. Intolerance can be good if it doesn't tolerance corruption. Exclusion can be good if it keeps society cohesive and intact. Competition is good if it creates material wealth.

    ... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 22:11:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:54 pm

    Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence? Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can consider making changes.

    I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer. I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.

    People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not
    just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have
    been murdering each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will never be peace.

    A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the strict
    confines of a civilised society.

    So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically alter
    people to be kinder and more empathetic, and have a universal belief system...

    I do agree that humans are by and large, screw ups. And I think there is a case to be made, of people being ruled by their betters. However, I think our "betters" now, the ruling elite, are most unfit.


    ... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Mon Aug 24 09:10:45 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Mon Aug 24 2020 07:21 pm

    On 08-23-20 08:50, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Letting the tribe look after the kids collectively sounds like such an ugly idea.

    It worked for most of humanity's existence. Our currently tightly controlle nuclear families are a very recent development, and more of a Western idea. Even today, many other cultures have much stronger extended families than we o.

    I know who my neighbors are and I would not trust a candy bar to them.

    Again, in the context of a very sick and unnatural society. :/


    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate

    Not even low primates follow the self-less tribe approach. Sometimes you can see monkeys sharing the burden of rising kids, but if you look closely they are usually close participants of the same sex orgies (ie Jack and Joe bang Amy, Amy has a little monkey, Jack and Joe take care of the kid).

    I don't look up to most cultures that feature weak extended families.

    My experience is that people who deals with common property neglects it. A third party is never going to give a damn for your son, or if they do, it will be symbolic.

    I think wanting the tribe to educate the kid is an opt-out for parents that don't want to deal with rising a kid. Then they are surprised because the tribe let the Latin Kings take charge of the kid and turned him into something the parents didn't want.

    btw, why is it that people who wants the tribe to take care of the kids usually does not want to take care of the kids of the other members of the tribe?

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 08:12:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am
    not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and
    Protestants have been murdering each other for centuries, and
    they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and
    Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will never
    be peace.

    We will never have a universal belief system. Not ever. If we
    ever did, it would mark the end of the human race.

    A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be
    done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the
    strict confines of a civilised society.

    There may be some actual truth (for a change) in this paragraph.

    So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically
    alter people to be kinder and more empathetic, and have a
    universal belief system...

    Back to being (badly) wrong, just like that. How you can arrive
    at the conclusion that that is the "only solution" is beyond
    understanding. You sound a LOT like a certain German dude from
    the late 1930's. At least we can probably assume you're not a
    member of Antifa.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 08:17:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

    I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.

    No, they didn't really have "The Borg" mentalitiy... which is a
    shame.

    In a previous post (a few minutes ago) you claim that you're not
    advocating anything, just "discussing ideas". Then you go and say
    something like the above.

    Seriously, are you really this much of a fucking idiot?


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 09:44:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Also you should brush up on your history a little. Ever heard of
    the Inquisition/Crusades? How about the Black Death? Perhaps
    other major diseases and famine? Maybe an average lifespan of
    35-ish years old? Does the name Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian
    conquests mean anything?

    <SNIP>

    Yes, I have heard of all of those Crusades and Conquests, yet
    they still pale in comparison to the 20th Century... I never said
    we weren't violent in the past. In actuality, I said, we have
    always been violent and have never achieved peace in all of human
    history.

    I suppose it's correct that *globally* we have not achieved peace
    among humans. It's certainly present in *large* geographic areas,
    and will likely *never* be reached globally.

    I'm OK with that. Greatly preferable to a boring and sad world of drones/bots/fakes, regardless of what you "transhumanism" freaks
    think.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 17:16:00 2020
    On 08-24-20 09:10, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I don't look up to most cultures that feature weak extended families.

    Like our Western society? ;) Our extended family links are weaker than many Asian and European cultures. I see the contrast here between those of Anglo descent and people from other cultural backgrounds. The non Anglo cultures seem to invest a lot more energy in their extended families.


    ... Staring into a dragon's jaws, one quickly learns wisdom.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Atroxi@VERT to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 16:20:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm

    I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at how
    ma
    ssive this thread had become. I got sucked into
    installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
    whi
    ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
    everything's good now, I hope.

    How you all guys doing?

    Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.

    It's not that bad, but we had a break-in a few days ago. Lost my phone, two of my bags that had some valuables including a backup hard drive of my office files as well as my wallet which had a lot of personal IDs and cards. I got my phone number back now, my driver's license and my bank card. I was lucky I backed all of my data from the stolen phone a few weeks prior so I still had my contacts and photos with me.

    I'm quite disturbed until now, thinking that the thief was actually in my room while I was sleeping, now I'm paranoid that I placed a barrel bolt lock on my door. But thinking about it right now, it's quite funny to me that my laptop which is a Thinkpad T400 was left there unmolested, silently compiling stuff while the robber did his job.

    I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for asking.

    What are you selling?

    ... You want to delete me right? Yeah, you sure do. You slut.
    --- MultiMail/FreeBSD v0.52
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 26 05:53:20 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 2020 05:16 pm

    On 08-24-20 09:10, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I don't look up to most cultures that feature weak extended families.

    Like our Western society? ;) Our extended family links are weaker than many Asian a
    European cultures. I see the contrast here between those of Anglo descent and peop
    from other cultural backgrounds. The non Anglo cultures seem to invest a lot more
    energy in their extended families.


    ... Staring into a dragon's jaws, one quickly learns wisdom.

    Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even Western Europe.
    Maybe some East Europe is like that - many Spanish Gypsies are organized around family
    clans that sometimes work as ethnic gangs - but that is it.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Atroxi on Wed Aug 26 05:56:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 2020 04:20 pm

    Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm

    I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at how
    ma
    ssive this thread had become. I got sucked into
    installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
    whi
    ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
    everything's good now, I hope.

    How you all guys doing?

    Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.

    It's not that bad, but we had a break-in a few days ago. Lost my phone, two of my
    bags that had some valuables including a backup hard drive of my office files as we
    as my wallet which had a lot of personal IDs and cards. I got my phone number back
    now, my driver's license and my bank card. I was lucky I backed all of my data from
    the stolen phone a few weeks prior so I still had my contacts and photos with me.

    I'm quite disturbed until now, thinking that the thief was actually in my room whi
    I was sleeping, now I'm paranoid that I placed a barrel bolt lock on my door. But
    thinking about it right now, it's quite funny to me that my laptop which is a Think
    T400 was left there unmolested, silently compiling stuff while the robber did his j

    I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for asking.

    What are you selling?

    ... You want to delete me right? Yeah, you sure do. You slut.

    Man that sucks. I usually sleep with two Rottweilers in my room and other 4 around the
    house, but Ibet a thief could get a pass from them by petting them behind the ears :-(

    I have a parafarmacy. Most of what I sell are vitamins and suplements. Lots of higyene
    and cosmetics (soap and the like too). It is not exactly a great business but it
    supplements my sysadmining and magazining.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 15:50:16 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 2020 09:03 pm

    They still are. Dying for Allah is the same shit to me. Religion is man made and has no place in the real world. People are scared shitless of dying and need to believe there is someplace better when we kick. Someplace where we can see Mom again. I guess this belongs in Debates or Religion eh? ;-)

    They say that religions are intrinsically peaceful, but it seems like most believers like to interpret the text in the most ambigious and violent way possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enough to think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always find a way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Aug 26 15:56:32 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 2020 07:26 am

    Now I'm thinking of a bad movie with Lee Majors playing a guy who,
    after the Gas Wars, when vehicles are outlawed, drives across country
    in an illegal car while being chased by elements of a totalitarian
    government. I think it came out the same time as "Red Barchetta".

    I think you are referring to The Last Chase. I haven't seen it myself... seems like it's another film I'll have to add to my list! Is it so bad that it's not worth watching?

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Aug 26 16:10:18 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Aug 24 2020 07:41 am

    Whoever came up with the term "defund police" must not have worked in
    marketing.

    You reduce the police budget, use the money to create programs with
    economic opportunity and pay for social services to deal with the
    non-criminal tasks that police have to do by default nowadays. You
    don't need to deal with an emotionally disturbed homeless person with
    a tazer, baton and a glock.

    You train police in de-escalation and make them a part of the
    community they serve. I hear way to much "us versus them" from police
    organizations.

    You eliminate asset forfeiture laws, which are nothing now except
    untraced funding sources for police departments.

    There needs to be a way to prosecute law enforcement officers fairly.
    Qualified Immunity needs to be changed.

    Police departments need to have a zero tolerance policy for escessive
    violence. Good luck with the police unions on that.

    You re-build trust.

    I have read that the NYPD have removed a lot of their plain clothed pro-active teams as a result of the budget cut. This is going to harm communities due to the increase in the drugs trade.

    I do agree that too much is put onto the plate of the police these days... cops are expected to be social workers, medics, law enforcement, marriage councillors, etc... all rolled into one. We need to get policing back to old fashioned guard, watch and patrol and ensure that the other agencies pick up the slack. If we let the police focus on crime and crime alone, we would get better results.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Wed Aug 26 16:33:23 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Aug 25 2020 11:01 am

    If you were a police officer, and the criminals were often
    wearing/using combat gear, would you like to also have combat
    gear? Would you like to take on a crazed killer using semi/auto
    weapons and body armor, whilst wearing a T-shirt and a baton?
    Force must be met with equal/greater force, if you want to live.
    I see your point, but when MANY of the criminals have superior weapons/shielding than the police, what should they do?

    This is a good illustration of the problem with the
    liberal/Democrat approach to solving police problems. It's very
    easy to say (and get the "base" all fired up by doing it) things
    like "Defund the Police!", but such methods are sorely lacking in
    reality. It's a 'effin WAR out there, and the bad guys are
    heavily armed, often with nothing to lose. Again I ask, would
    *YOU* want to be a police officer, and be told that you now have
    to face these assholes with LESS equipment than you already have?
    If that was me, I'd quit. A lot of them have quit. What if they
    all quit? What's the solution then?

    Most politicians (on both sides) need a big heavy dose of reality
    dumped on their heads. They have no idea how it is out there in
    the actual real-life world. Another thing that contributes to the
    "police problems" is that we never see the GOOD outcomes that GOOD
    cops produce. That doesn't sell ads or make the news. That
    doesn't fit the agenda. "They" don't want that kind of thing seen
    by the masses.

    Finally there's something we can agree on, Gamgee. I think the police have been militarised, as you say, due to the threat level of organised gangs. These people have access to military grade weapons/protective gear, so the police have to be armed to that level too. Officer safety is important because very few would do the job if they were ill equipped... the last thing we need is a mass exodus during times of riots, protests and civil disobedience. And yes, there are millions of instances of police contact every year and most end up with good outcomes... which appears to be downplayed by the media.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 23:30:28 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm

    possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.

    I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Thu Aug 27 20:44:00 2020
    On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even

    And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.


    ... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Thu Aug 27 07:36:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think you are referring to The Last Chase. I haven't seen it
    myself... seems like it's another film I'll have to add to my list! Is
    it so bad that it's not worth watching?

    I remember watching it when I was a kid and being impressed by it -
    I think it and Rollerball turned me to distopian science fiction.



    ... I'll be unstoppable when I get started.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Thu Aug 27 10:44:17 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Aug 27 2020 08:44 pm

    On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even

    And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.


    ... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under the same roof.

    I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for more than three days.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Thu Aug 27 17:33:16 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm

    possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive
    enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people
    will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they
    commit.

    I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.



    you're seeing it right now. people are fighting based on their skin color
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dennisk to MRO on Fri Aug 28 09:19:00 2020
    MRO wrote to HusTler <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm

    possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive
    enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people
    will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they
    commit.

    I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.



    you're seeing it right now. people are fighting based on their skin
    color ---

    If you are referring to the current riots, that is religion. "Wokeness" is a manifestation of the religious instinct. Social Justice, Inclusion, etc are justifications for carrying out what are in essence, the very same behaviours and demands that religious people in the past have pushed when they wanted adherence to their orthodoxy.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 20:50:00 2020
    On 08-27-20 10:44, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes
    under the same roof.

    Like you, I'm too conditioned to the Western way, but I can separate my upbringing with other ideas, I don't conflate them as in "the way I was brought up is the best".


    ... Behind every successful man is an astonished mother-in-law.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 10:58:59 2020
    On 8/26/2020 8:30 PM, HusTler wrote:
    possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enough >> think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always fin >> way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.

    I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions are the same,
    and some have evolved over time. A common thread is people that have
    faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their lives. I don't
    really relate to that, kind of wish I could, but it's probably a net
    positive for society overall.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Dennisk on Fri Aug 28 11:01:25 2020
    On 8/28/2020 7:19 AM, Dennisk wrote:

    If you are referring to the current riots, that is religion. "Wokeness" is a manifestation of the religious instinct. Social Justice, Inclusion, etc are justifications for carrying out what are in essence, the very same behaviours and demands that religious people in the past have pushed when they wanted adherence to their orthodoxy.

    I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
    because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
    it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 11:03:56 2020
    On 8/27/2020 8:44 AM, Arelor wrote:

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under the same roof.

    I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for more than three days.

    I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
    many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or agree
    with.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 28 12:32:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 2020 08:50 pm

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes
    under the same roof.

    Like you, I'm too conditioned to the Western way, but I can separate my upbringing with other ideas, I don't conflate them as in "the way I was brought up is the best".

    I know some people from Brazil and have visited there a few times. It seems more common there for people to live with their parents until they get married, etc., and it seems overall they're more family-oriented and group-oriented there. And then one time while back in the US, I was talking with a few people from Brazil here, and one said she used to like to spend time with other people a lot in Brazil, but while in the US, she started getting used to doing things on her own and started to get more bothered when people would call her at random times asking to hang out or go do something with her, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 10:23:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm

    possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enou think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.

    I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23


    In general, systems of faith do more good than bad. The overlying issues bein g they run best when operating at a distance from other belief systems and their lack of tolerance of other systems is assured because the word of the creator is deemed absolute. Any argument lies in how the word is
    translated.

    Other social systems share similar qualities, however something else is
    placed on a pedestal instead of an all powerful diety.


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 28 10:43:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Aug 27 2020 08:44 pm

    On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even

    And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.


    ... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.

    In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is required, and
    after some time the family you create and their families they create take precedence over the family you left behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties the last generation had are not maintained. One of
    my cousin's wife 's hobbies is geneology, and she did research tracing back
    my father's mother's family. There's an old saying that your first friends
    are your cousins, and in my case it was even more true! My grandmother and
    her borthers and sisters were a tight group, however their cousins on their father's side didn't talk or meet much. My great grandfather had several brothers and sisters as well, however when they formed their own families,
    they never gathered or socialized any more. While my friends may not have
    been direct or first cousins, several were seconds or shared a common
    ancestor. One of our neighbors around the block had a big party, and when
    I'd ask friends and acquaintences there how they know my neighbor, they'd ment ion a second cousin or other relative that I would also recognize, then we'd figure out how many degrees of separation were between us.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Aug 28 10:46:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Thu Aug 27 2020 07:36 am

    Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think you are referring to The Last Chase. I haven't seen it myself... seems like it's another film I'll have to add to my list! Is it so bad that it's not worth watching?

    I remember watching it when I was a kid and being impressed by it -
    I think it and Rollerball turned me to distopian science fiction.



    Damnation Alley was my gateway to post apocalyptic society. Ark II was
    another favorite. I watched some Planet of the Apes before that, however I
    was too young to really appreciate some of it.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 11:04:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Vk3jed on Thu Aug 27 2020 10:44 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Aug 27 2020 08:44 pm

    On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not ev

    And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.


    ... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under the same roof.

    I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for more than three days.

    My brother rents from me and acts as a roomate. We get along and get stuff done, but I can't stand some of his buddies or his girlfriend. She doesn't understand I'm the home owner and she just can't come in and begin moving
    stuff around like it's just her and my brother there. My brother was storing vehicles for his friend in one of my buildings. I was going to rent storage
    to others, then discover he wasn't charging any of his buddies, and in some cases the stuff wasn't being touched in years. I had to put my foot down and tell him to collect some storage fees or ask them to remove their stuff.
    The stuff left. There was one snowmobile left behind, and it turned out he felt sorry for the dude and lent him money, and was holding onto the
    snowmobile for collateral. He didn't receive the title, so we couldn't sell it, or at least sell it to someone who wanted to insure it or register it for state trails. The dude who owed money would call and ask if he could
    "borrow" it back for a few days, but I told my brother if that kid gets it back, he'll never see it or the money. My brother eventually sold it to someone who didn't care about a title and had his own property to ride on.
    The guy had the same model and swapped out parts.

    My sister asked if she could move in after my brother leaves and her kids are all college or on their won, however I can only endure her in short
    intervals. She is my older sister, and tends to get bossy with me.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Tracker1 on Fri Aug 28 17:00:03 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Dennisk on Fri Aug 28 2020 11:01 am

    I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
    because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
    it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS


    Well, I don't know if it is in their handbook, but lots of humanists put The Collective, which is a very abstract concept, above the self. Usually, above some body else's "self".

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Tracker1 on Fri Aug 28 17:01:58 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 2020 11:03 am

    On 8/27/2020 8:44 AM, Arelor wrote:

    Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under t same roof.

    I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for mor than three days.

    I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
    many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or agree with.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS


    I don't think it is a matter of skill.

    I used to do a lot of customer service. I can deal with people. That does nto mean I have to deal with people. Specially people who hates me and I have to bear on Xmast because of some social conventionalism.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Fri Aug 28 19:12:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:43 am

    In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is required, and after some time the family you create and their families they create take precedence over the family you left behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties the last generation had are not maintained.

    Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of people in the US don't live in the state they were originally from. It seems people in the US move a lot.

    I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I live & work in the same general area I grew up in.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From mage@VERT/CANADIAN to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 15:53:20 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    The world will be better off without relgion. It's like taking a cancer out.

    ---
    Synchronet Canadian Rebel - canadianrebel.sytes.net:1981
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 10:55:49 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:58 am

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions are the same,
    and some have evolved over time. A common thread is people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their lives. I don't

    Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks were my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you are bad and born
    a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth and tell the
    priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you ask me.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to HusTler on Sat Aug 29 14:29:41 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:55 am

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
    depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions
    are the same, and some have evolved over time. A common thread is
    people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their
    lives. I don't

    Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks were my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you are bad and born a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth and tell the priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you ask me.

    I grew up catholic, went to catholic schools, but was a pretty terrible kid. My mom would make me to go to confession, and I'd just walk to church, wander around for a bit, then come home. The more I think about it, the more I realize I never actually believed in religion, or in any specific brand of religion.

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for that.

    DaiTengu

    ... I'm famous. That's my job.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 13:16:32 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri Aug 28 2020 07:12 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:43 am

    In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to
    the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is
    required, and after some time the family you create and their
    families they create take precedence over the family you left
    behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties
    the last generation had are not maintained.

    Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of people in the US don't live in the state they were originally from. It seems people in the US move a lot.

    I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I live & work in the same general area I grew up in.

    maybe it just seems that way because of the region you are in. in my area people stick around the same region. the jobs are here so we dont have to relocate.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to mage on Sat Aug 29 13:20:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: mage to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 03:53 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    The world will be better off without relgion. It's like taking a cancer out.


    maybe the world would be better without people like you who think in such absolute black and white ways.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 09:57:57 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Dennisk on Fri Aug 28 2020 11:01 am

    I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
    because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
    it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.

    Christopher Hitchens on Communism and Religion...

    "You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated in a seminary in Georgia, by the way. Up until 1917, for hundereds of years, hundreds of millions of Russians have been told that the head of the state is a God. The Tsar is above power, ordinary secular power, that he's the head of the Russian orthodox church as well. You shouldn't be in the dictatorship business if you can't take advantage of a deep well of credulity and servility like that. It's your golden opportunity, what does he do? Heresy trials, witch hunts, miraculous discoversies, such as Lysenko's biology. The worship of the leader from all whom all blessings flow, as I describe North Korea, the most religious state I've ever seen. This would also apply to Mao's China, with the same background of superstition and servility. Now for there to be a fair test about this, you'd have to do the following, and no one I've ever debated with has even tried it - you'd be the first. You find me a state, or society that threw off theocracy and threw off religion and said "we adopt the teachings of Lucretius, and Democritus, and Galileo, and Spinoza, and Darwin, and Russell, and Jefferson and Thomas Paine" and we make those what we teach our children, and we make that scientific and rational humanism our teaching, and you find me a state that did that and fell into tyranny, and slavery, and famine and torture and then we'll be on a level playing field. As it is, all you've done is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea of servility and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place."

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 10:00:21 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Arelor on Fri Aug 28 2020 11:03 am

    I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
    many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or agree with.

    Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to a massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat Aug 29 14:17:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 01:16 pm

    Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of people in the US
    don't live in the state they were originally from. It seems people
    in the US move a lot.

    I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I
    live & work in the same general area I grew up in.

    maybe it just seems that way because of the region you are in. in my area people stick around the same region. the jobs are here so we dont have to relocate.

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..

    It could be the region I'm in. It seems most people here moved here from out of state. It seems there are a lot of people here from other countries too. People sometimes joke about the number of people from California who have moved here, and people who are from here sometimes joke about being one of the few who are actually from here.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 14:19:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:00 am

    Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to a massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.

    Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I had
    the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living there or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funded in the US.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 19:05:09 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:00 am

    I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
    many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to
    interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or
    agree with.

    Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to a massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.


    my mom was a manager at a nursing home. that shit was expensive. some resident's costs are over a thousand usd a day. i dont even know if insurance even covers that type of care anymore.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 19:06:05 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:17 pm

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..



    i'm using your msg editor
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 21:59:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
    because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
    it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.

    Christopher Hitchens on Communism and Religion...

    Never heard of him.

    A quick google search shows him to have been a
    fringe-hardcore-leftist-whacko who published a few articles in
    various liberal rags.

    <YAWN>


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Aug 30 18:11:00 2020
    On 08-28-20 12:32, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I know some people from Brazil and have visited there a few times. It seems more common there for people to live with their parents until
    they get married, etc., and it seems overall they're more
    family-oriented and group-oriented there. And then one time while back
    in the US, I was talking with a few people from Brazil here, and one
    said she used to like to spend time with other people a lot in Brazil,
    but while in the US, she started getting used to doing things on her
    own and started to get more bothered when people would call her at
    random times asking to hang out or go do something with her, etc..

    Similar to my experience with friends from Asian backgrounds. They were always doing something with family - parties, dinners, visiting relatives, etc. To myself, with an Anglo-Australian upbringing, it was rather foreign. By comparison, my relatives are literally scattered up the eastern side of Australia, from Melbourne to Cairns, an almost 3000km stretch. And all of that happened in the space of one generation.

    As a matter of fact, there's no one in my family I can even visit right now (other than my husband, who's here, of course). My sister in Melbourne is in stage 4 lockdown, even going down there is restricted to essential purposes, and private visits are not allowed across the state. Everyone else is interstate, on the far side of closed borders, due to COVID-19. This is one case where the isolating effects of COVID-19 have been blunted by social upbringing.


    ... Now there's a beetle in my soup. Sorry, sir, we're out of flies today.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Aug 30 18:20:00 2020
    On 08-28-20 10:43, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to

    No dofferent to Australia, except we have less people in between. :)

    the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is
    required, and after some time the family you create and their families they create take precedence over the family you left behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties the last generation
    had are not maintained. One of my cousin's wife 's hobbies is
    geneology, and she did research tracing back my father's mother's
    family. There's an old saying that your first friends are your
    cousins, and in my case it was even more true! My grandmother and her borthers and sisters were a tight group, however their cousins on their father's side didn't talk or meet much. My great grandfather had
    several brothers and sisters as well, however when they formed their
    own families, they never gathered or socialized any more. While my friends may not have been direct or first cousins, several were seconds
    or shared a common ancestor. One of our neighbors around the block had
    a big party, and when I'd ask friends and acquaintences there how they know my neighbor, they'd ment ion a second cousin or other relative
    that I would also recognize, then we'd figure out how many degrees of separation were between us.

    That's quite similar to my family, but there is a lot of difference among families. Mine is a relatively separated and dispersed family. We're not as dependent on close ties as most other families. I have known a lot of people, even those with an Anglo-Australian background, who moved house to be closer to family, something I've never felt a compulsion to do. My house moves have all been for work, economic, necessity (having to leave a rental because it was sold, etc) or lifestyle reasons.


    ... I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to DaiTengu on Sun Aug 30 05:18:02 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: DaiTengu to HusTler on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:29 pm

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for that.

    DaiTengu

    It must be nice to be able to feel that way.

    My experience is that if you are nice to people you get a stab in the back.

    My most succesful relations are business relations that are dead cold corporative emotionless for some reason.
    /s

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Aug 30 09:51:38 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:06 pm

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason
    your reply was addressed to Tracker1..

    i'm using your msg editor

    My message editor has no way of controlling who the message is posted to. That's done by Synchronet. The message editor just edits whatever file Synchronet tells it to edit.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun Aug 30 14:05:43 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Aug 30 2020 09:51 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:06 pm

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason
    your reply was addressed to Tracker1..

    i'm using your msg editor

    My message editor has no way of controlling who the message is posted to. That's done by Synchronet. The message editor just edits whatever file Synchronet tells it to edit.


    dunno, i didnt type in someone else's name
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to DaiTengu on Sun Aug 30 13:14:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: DaiTengu to HusTler on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:29 pm

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
    depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions

    Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks

    I grew up catholic, went to catholic schools, but was a pretty terrible kid

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for

    I don't think I ever forgave my mother for bringing us up that way. I can tell you my entire family is a bunch of screwballs. ;-). My sister brought her 11 kids up Catholic. Want a bunch. Drugs, teen pregnacies. So much for "being a good Catholic". lol

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 13:50:10 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 09:57 am

    "You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated in a seminary in Georgia, by the way. Up until 1917, for hundereds of years, hundreds of millions of Russians have been told that the head of the state i a state that did that and fell into tyranny, and slavery, and famine and torture and then we'll be on a level playing field. As it is, all you've don is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea of servility and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place."

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 13:56:07 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:00 am

    Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.

    What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Sun Aug 30 14:02:23 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:19 pm

    Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes

    Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I ha
    the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living th or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funde in the US.

    Yes they are. If you have exhausted all of your income Medicaid (Federal/State) aid pays for it. No.. you can't own a house and get free housing in a Nursing Home. That would be cheating. If you really can't afford it, the Government will pay for it. Each state has it's own rules but the money comes from the federal government. For how long? Until you die.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Sun Aug 30 14:14:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:05 pm

    my mom was a manager at a nursing home. that shit was expensive. some resident's costs are over a thousand usd a day. i dont even know if insuranc even covers that type of care anymore. ---

    Not many insurance plans do. Pensions are a different story. It's a sad realty but if you're completly broke (and can prove it) the government pays for nursing homes. In my State New York they want your last 5 years of income. Banks SS pensions, Mutal funds etc. If you still have money in the bank (In your name) or own property (Car, House, Stocks, Bonds or any other income) you will have to exhaust those funds/sell before uncle sam will pay. If you still own a home and need a Nursing Home the government has the right to take that home to pay your bill. And they WILL take your home. I've know many people that have lost their homes to the government that way. Word of advice. Plan for your future.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Sun Aug 30 14:17:45 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:06 pm

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..



    i'm using your msg editor
    ---

    I have the same problem with Slyedit. Glad you pointed that out. If you notice I took out quoting with initials just to avoid being acused of quoting the wrong person.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Sun Aug 30 10:11:33 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:19 pm

    Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I had
    the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living there or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funded in the US.

    Not very likely. Most US families live pay cheque to pay cheque and social care can cost around one thousand dollars each week. The elderly ususally have to liquidate their assets to pay for their own care, however those who have nothing do not have to pay. In the UK that's what happens as a lot of older people anticipating a move into a care home transfer their houses and other assets to their offspring 7 years prior, so they do not have any assets worth seizing.

    Social care is one of the largest unfunded liabilities in the West and no country can afford it in the long-term. New solutions will have to be discovered for our generation. I hope automation can deal with this problem... robot carers may be the future.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Sun Aug 30 10:17:27 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:05 pm

    my mom was a manager at a nursing home. that shit was expensive. some resident's costs are over a thousand usd a day. i dont even know if insurance even covers that type of care anymore.

    It's incredible... insurance policies do not pay for care as it could run into the tens of millions per person, which would bankrupt any company. In the UK elderly people have their assets seized to pay for their care. The problem is that a house will only make up for around 2 years of care before the tax-payer has to foot the bill. A lot of people do not have houses either, as they were living in council owned properties or renting. The idea of nursing homes is unsustainable - I gurarantee you I won't be seeing a nursing home as they'll be rendered obsolete by then. At best, my generation will have to have their children look after them.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Sun Aug 30 10:20:06 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sat Aug 29 2020 09:59 pm

    Never heard of him.

    You obviously don't do much reading. He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous generation. Also, he was speaking ill of Communism, likening it to a sick religion... you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehention.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to DaiTengu on Sun Aug 30 10:04:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: DaiTengu to HusTler on Sat Aug 29 2020 02:29 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:55 am

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
    depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions
    are the same, and some have evolved over time. A common thread is
    people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their
    lives. I don't

    Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks we my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you a bad and born a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth an tell the priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you as me.

    I grew up catholic, went to catholic schools, but was a pretty terrible kid believed in religion, or in any specific brand of religion.

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the

    DaiTengu

    ... I'm famous. That's my job.


    I was raised as a Lutheran, and also lived in a rural environment. I have visitied Catholic churches and sat through Catholic services, though. From what I perceived, Catholicism is much more urbanized. More detail is put
    into the appearance of the church to inspire it's greatness and power, and
    some of the practices such as hearing a confession appeared to be means for a church run state to know who the troublemakers were.

    Some things were carried over or kept from Catholicism after the reformation, t however the Luthern faith has a little more compatibility with regards to expansionism because it's structure is stripped down. In a way they put less reliance in the church to connect with God. Lutherans still like to have a nice church to goto , however they are not as ornate. I have only been to two
    or three churches that were older than 100 years old, and they were a little more ornate, but otherwise newer churches put more in the utility of the building.

    In adult life I never really considered faith a reason to like or dislike peopel, however the strange thing is the better friends I had turned to be Lutheran without me knowing it right away.

    Not bragging, just an observation. Have others such as Catholics find theselv es making more friends of their faith without previous knowledge?

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Sun Aug 30 10:14:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 01:16 pm



    I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I live & work in the same general area I grew up in.

    maybe it just seems that way because of the region you are in. in my area p

    I have several relatives that are regional if you use the regional in a
    larger tense. Instead of a half hour away, some are several hours away, yet
    in the same state. I live4 on the west coast of southwest Michigan, and on a clear day with binoculars see building in Chicago from the beach. Some of my relatives moved closer to Detroit and in the bottom of the thumb or further up
    the mitten for work, yet the cousin living outside of Chicago others in norther Indiana have a much shorter drive.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Sun Aug 30 10:30:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to mage on Sat Aug 29 2020 01:20 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: mage to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 03:53 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm

    The world will be better off without relgion. It's like taking a cancer out.


    maybe the world would be better without people like you who think in such ab

    I was listening to an interview with a man from India, and the discussion was about the caste system, and how it still has it's subtle influences. The
    guest spoke of how Indians (and most likely everyone else) feel uncomfortable while travelling outside their borders and seek out someone with something in common to talk to. He said he would avoid as much as possible to bring up castes, because that would usually shut down any further discussion. Two poeple who go from discussing common backgrounds, then suddenly shut down because of what an older tier system tells them to.

    One time at lunch at work I was sitting with a group of engineers, and
    somehow the caste system was brough up. One engineer said it no longer mattered and he saw no discrimination. No one disagreed at that time. When
    he finished and walked away, the other Indian guys mentioned he was in a high caste with great priviledge. I don't know if the guy was exaggerating, but
    he said the other guy had servants to carry him so he would not touch the ground. Obviously, he would see no difference in treatment.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Arelor on Sun Aug 30 17:47:48 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to DaiTengu on Sun Aug 30 2020 05:18 am

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most
    of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal
    damnmation for that.

    It must be nice to be able to feel that way.

    My experience is that if you are nice to people you get a stab in the back.

    Don't get me wrong. you can't be a pushover. If you're nice to someone, and they fuck you over, revenge is a dish best served cold.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


    My most succesful relations are business relations that are dead cold corporative emotionless for some reason.

    I don't think I've ever had a "cold emotionless" relationship with anyone. All my interactions with anyone are generally filled with attitude and sarcasm.

    DaiTengu

    ... Success usually comes to those too busy to look for it.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to HusTler on Sun Aug 30 17:51:01 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:56 pm

    What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.

    Have you ever had to deal with Medicaid and nursing homes? You better pre-plan for it, by no less than 5 years. You'll need a lawyer. Assuming you don't want to lose everything you own, at least.

    DaiTengu

    ... Everything beautiful has its moment and then passes away.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Sun Aug 30 19:42:18 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:56 pm


    What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.


    i'm pretty sure the nursing home model is a failed one and they transitioned to an 'assisted living' model. it's still expensive.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Sun Aug 30 19:45:11 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to MRO on Sun Aug 30 2020 02:14 pm

    of income. Banks SS pensions, Mutal funds etc. If you still have money in the bank (In your name) or own property (Car, House, Stocks, Bonds or any other income) you will have to exhaust those funds/sell before uncle sam will pay. If you still own a home and need a Nursing Home the government has the right to take that home to pay your bill. And they WILL take your home. I've know many people that have lost their homes to the government that way. Word of advice. Plan for your future.



    that's too bad but that's how it goes. i wish that instead of social security,etc my money would go into a private fund like a 401k. that way i can have some control over it and the govt cant dip into it.

    i'm planning to work until i die. that's my gameplan. i dont have much saved up for retirement because i wasnt smart during my 20s. i had to work hard through my 30s and now i might lose employment because of the economy and the covid. this was supposed to be my last job. i'm tough though. i have other jobs in mind, but i dont like starting over or managing people.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Sun Aug 30 19:58:03 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Aug 30 2020 10:30 am

    mattered and he saw no discrimination. No one disagreed at that time. When he finished and walked away, the other Indian guys mentioned he was in a high caste with great priviledge. I don't know if the guy was exaggerating, but he said the other guy had servants to carry him so he would not touch the ground. Obviously, he would see no difference in treatment.


    yeah and people will always find a way to spot differences and treat someone different for them.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 21:13:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Never heard of him.

    You obviously don't do much reading.

    I do a LOT of reading. Just not about leftist-whackjobs out on
    the fringe of lunacy. Don't have any time for that kind of
    nonsense. I'm happy that you do, though.

    He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
    generation.

    LOL! Yeah right.

    Also, he was
    speaking ill of Communism, likening it to a sick religion...
    you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehention.

    I'd have "saw" it if I had "comprehention", eh?

    Sounds like you need to do some reading too, of middle-school
    textbooks.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Sat Aug 29 07:45:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Damnation Alley was my gateway to post apocalyptic society. Ark II was another favorite. I watched some Planet of the Apes before that,
    however I was too young to really appreciate some of it.


    Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?

    My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's
    taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
    and he especially liked the intro.

    "THE FUTURE - 1997."





    ... Omens are there to be broken.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 03:39:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:50 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 09:57 am

    "You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated in seminary in Georgia, by the way. Up until 1917, for hundereds of years, hundreds of millions of Russians have been told that the head of the stat a state that did that and fell into tyranny, and slavery, and famine and torture and then we'll be on a level playing field. As it is, all you've is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea o servility and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place."

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communi Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under des at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil peopl What else is new?

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23


    I think his point is that when you become a dictator, you try to keep your citizen-slaves down and controlled via belief systems such as religion. Also,
    I think it is implied that personalist dictatorships (Arelor is the ruler because he is the best, he eats nails for breakfast and squashes nazies with the pinky finger!) are much like religions.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Aug 31 07:32:04 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:45 am

    Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?

    Damnation Alley has been on my "to read" list for years. I should probably get to it, some day. I never saw the film, but I've heard it's quite different than the original book.

    My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's
    taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
    and he especially liked the intro.

    That's awesome. lots of people (myself included, sometimes) don't appreciate some of the more classic sci-fi and cult films like that because the pacing on them is just so much slower than films now days.


    "THE FUTURE - 1997."

    Man, remember when that was "The Future" ?

    DaiTengu

    ... First secure an independent income, then practice virtue.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 10:09:58 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:50 pm

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?

    The point is that you do not require a divine supreme being to believe in, in order to have a religion. So called "secular" ideologies are every bit as religious as those that claim to be.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 10:13:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:56 pm

    What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.

    Americans are going to have to take care of their own in their own homes soon as the government will not be able to pay for nursing homes long term. Quite a few states are already insolvent, if you haven't noticed. Come back to me in 10 years and we'll see what the lay of the land is like. I have a feeling nursing homes are going to be exclusively for those who can pay for it wholesale with no government subsidies.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Mon Aug 31 10:46:22 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 09:13 pm

    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Never heard of him.

    You obviously don't do much reading.

    I do a LOT of reading. Just not about leftist-whackjobs out on
    the fringe of lunacy. Don't have any time for that kind of
    nonsense. I'm happy that you do, though.

    He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
    generation.

    LOL! Yeah right.

    Also, he was
    speaking ill of Communism, likening it to a sick religion...
    you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehention.

    I'd have "saw" it if I had "comprehention", eh?

    Sounds like you need to do some reading too, of middle-school
    textbooks.

    So you made a comment to me without actually reading the relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post. You tell me then, at which point does Hitchens advocate Communist/Marxist ideals in my post? What on Earth are you talking about? He did nothing but slate far-left politics...

    I think you're referring to Hitchens being an ex-Commie, back when he was a student at Oxford in the late 60s... he ended up becoming a good bit right wing in his later years.

    Here's a step for a hint - next time you made a disparaging comment, actually READ the post you're referring to.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Mon Aug 31 11:27:51 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to HusTler on Sun Aug 30 2020 07:42 pm

    i'm pretty sure the nursing home model is a failed one and they transitioned an 'assisted living' model. it's still expensive. ---

    Ahhhh. This is where the "game" gets tricky. I call it the game because if you don't have a lawyer to sort things out you will get burnt. I've had to put both my parents in Nursing Homes and have played the "game" without paying for lawyers. Medicaid does not pay for assisted living, adult homes, rest homes,group homes. Medicaid only pays for nursing homes. The nursing home model is basically a hospital. 24/7 Nursing care. You'll get a bed with a roomate. You get all your meals. Your bed is made daily. People that can still get around and still want to things often don't like being in this setting. My father hated it. He would stay for 30 days and then they discharge him home. I would care for him until he fell yet again, went to the hospital and back to a nursing home. This went on for 2 years until finally I convinced him to stay. There was no other options. There was no money for an adult home or assisted living. He passed away in a nursing home. I know he did not want to be there.
    Sorry for the rant but I feel it's important to share my experience with nursing homes.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Mon Aug 31 11:37:46 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to HusTler on Sun Aug 30 2020 07:45 pm

    any other income) you will have to exhaust those funds/sell before uncle sam will pay. If you still own a home and need a Nursing Home the
    that's too bad but that's how it goes. i wish that instead of social security,etc my money would go into a private fund like a 401k. that way i

    i'm planning to work until i die. that's my gameplan. i dont have much saved for retirement because i wasnt smart during my 20s. i had to work hard thro my 30s and now i might lose employment because of the economy and the covid. this was supposed to be my last job. i'm tough though. i have other jobs i mind, but i dont like starting over or managing people. ---

    I felt the same way. But shit happens that we have no control over. What happens if you are in a car accident (Like me) and you can no longer get around? Your spine or neck was injured. Or you get some other disabling disease. Or you just get so old you can't stand for longer then 3 minutes. Life happens and there is no way of knowing how it's going to turn out. All we can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst. It's human nature not to think about this stuff. It's scary! But we do have choices.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Arelor on Mon Aug 31 11:41:10 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 2020 03:39 am

    "You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a
    Communi Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up

    I think his point is that when you become a dictator, you try to keep your citizen-slaves down and controlled via belief systems such as religion. Also I think it is implied that personalist dictatorships (Arelor is the ruler because he is the best, he eats nails for breakfast and squashes nazies with the pinky finger!) are much like religions.

    Wow! That's some deep shit. ;-)

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to DaiTengu on Mon Aug 31 12:43:41 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: DaiTengu to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Aug 31 2020 07:32 am

    That's awesome. lots of people (myself included, sometimes) don't apprecia some of the more classic sci-fi and cult films like that because the pacing them is just so much slower than films now days.

    Funny you say that.

    I watch lots of retro films. And by that, I mean silent films even. They are very different than we have today, but your average comedy short was very fast paced.

    Incidentally, silent comedy (Buster Keaton, Chaplin etc) is the only film comedy I tolerate, with some exceptions.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Mon Aug 31 11:59:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Aug 30 2020 07:58 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Aug 30 2020 10:30 am

    mattered and he saw no discrimination. No one disagreed at that time. W he finished and walked away, the other Indian guys mentioned he was in high caste with great priviledge. I don't know if the guy was exaggerating, but he said the other guy had servants to carry him so he would not touch the ground. Obviously, he would see no difference in treatment.


    yeah and people will always find a way to spot differences and treat someone

    And the cure to that is make those differences mean very little. It may take decades, because the emotions tied to these differences may run deep.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Aug 31 12:04:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:45 am

    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Damnation Alley was my gateway to post apocalyptic society. Ark II was another favorite. I watched some Planet of the Apes before that, however I was too young to really appreciate some of it.


    Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?

    My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's
    taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
    and he especially liked the intro.

    "THE FUTURE - 1997."


    Escape from New York was interesting because that was Kurt Russell's first
    edgy action character role. Previously he appeared in Disney films and made
    TV appearances on shows like Lost in Space and Gilligan's Island.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to DaiTengu on Mon Aug 31 12:08:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: DaiTengu to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Aug 31 2020 07:32 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:45 am

    Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?

    Damnation Alley has been on my "to read" list for years. I should probably

    My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
    and he especially liked the intro.

    That's awesome. lots of people (myself included, sometimes) don't apprecia


    "THE FUTURE - 1997."

    Man, remember when that was "The Future" ?

    DaiTengu

    ... First secure an independent income, then practice virtue.


    Westworld from 1973 runs at a pretty good pace. No real drawn out parts.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 12:14:00 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 2020 10:09 am

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:50 pm

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hid under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?

    The point is that you do not require a divine supreme being to believe in, i order to have a religion. So called "secular" ideologies are every bit as religious as those that claim to be.


    It all boils down to idolatry. The concept of an all powerful being is taken off the pedestal and replaced with something else. Replace the scriptures
    and hymns with system related propaganda.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 15:39:50 2020
    On 8/29/2020 7:55 AM, HusTler wrote:
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:58 am

    In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and depression
    combined with identity politics. Not that all religions are the same,
    and some have evolved over time. A common thread is people that have
    faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their lives. I don't

    Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage
    done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks were my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you are bad and born
    a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth and tell the
    priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you ask me.

    Not all churches and variants on faith are Catholicism.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to DaiTengu on Mon Aug 31 15:42:41 2020
    On 8/29/2020 12:29 PM, DaiTengu wrote:

    It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for that.

    Most people are mostly good, most of the time... I'm pretty much a
    simple deist at this point. Formerly Athiest, but I'd like to say I've
    grown a bit. In other parts of this thread, I pointed out that it's
    important to be civil to even people you wholely disagree with. You
    don't change minds by isolating and insulting people, that tends to be
    more of a radicalization effect instead of the opposite.

    Not to mention the very sore political discourse in the country at this
    point.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Aug 31 15:52:19 2020
    On 8/29/2020 2:17 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..

    It could be the region I'm in. It seems most people here moved here from out of state. It seems there are a lot of people here from other countries too. People sometimes joke about the number of people from California who have moved here, and people who are from here sometimes joke about being one of the few who are actually from here.

    Not to me, but I'll chime in... when I was young, civils, civil responsibility, self responsibility and liberty were taught as core
    concepts in Arizona. As I've grown, policies have become more left
    leaning, and education has dramatically shifted from "if you have the
    ability to help/intercede, you have the responsibility to do so," to
    "don't get involved and call the police."

    We've gone from a fairly healthy third party (Libertarian) presence, to literally a primary ballot with no LP candidates. And while I disagree
    with Republicans on about 1/3 of their official policy stances, I
    disagree with Democrats on roughly 2/3 and have no respect for most of them.

    I'm not even a die hard Libertarian at that, I'm pretty socially liberal
    and fiscally conservative and feel government should maximise personal
    freedom (and corporations shouldn't get nearly the protection they do
    from govt). In general, I'm pragmatic, but that pragmatism can only
    stretch so far.

    IMO, if you leave a state because of how messed up it is, just maybe one should also re-evaluate the politics that you bring with you.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Mon Aug 31 15:54:05 2020
    On 8/29/2020 2:19 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I had
    the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living there or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funded in the US.

    It's mixed depending on medical need (medicare), state funding for the
    elderly and family ability to pay. Most facilities are a combination of funding for different people, some better than others.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Mon Aug 31 15:59:01 2020
    On 8/30/2020 3:18 AM, Arelor wrote:

    It must be nice to be able to feel that way.

    My experience is that if you are nice to people you get a stab in the back.

    My most succesful relations are business relations that are dead cold corporative emotionless for some reason.

    Being nice, or civil to people doesn't mean being blindly trusting. As
    a rule, I always try to keep a third party looped in on anything of significance, or set myself up with leverage in case things go south.
    It still sucks to be betrayed or disappointed, but at least I'm prepared.

    All the same, it's important to try and remain civil even against evil
    itself.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 16:05:03 2020
    On 8/30/2020 10:50 AM, HusTler wrote:

    What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?

    I'm a bit younger than that... I came up in the hope of the late 70's
    and 80's. MY negativity towards communism comes from getting involved
    with them in my late teens and early 20s, then followed on by having
    worked and gotten to know expats from communist Russia and China. Those experiences are what really opened my eyes.

    There is a dishonest evil to many socialist leaders who would use
    diversion and deceipt to sieze control and remove freedom from the
    people. Those who would decry people in power only to turn into a
    stronger authoritarian power.

    The older I get the more stronly I believe that people cannot be trusted
    with institutional power, and should thus be limited as much as
    reasonable on most fronts. Even with corporatism in modern US
    government, the government isn't restricting power, but granting,
    expanding and protecting it.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to HusTler on Mon Aug 31 16:11:59 2020
    On 8/30/2020 10:56 AM, HusTler wrote:

    What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.

    We are at a crossroads though... without an influx of working adults in
    jobs that pay better than the current average, we're closing in on a
    point where half the adult population may be retired... that's
    unsustainable in general.

    I think we may hit a point where adult children may need to be legally/financially responsible for their senior parents. It's much
    less expensive to subsidize a stay at home adult as part of a married
    couple, than dedicated staffing and housing. Most states actually do
    offer such programs for adults taking care of senior relatives.

    The larger issue is the breakdown of family in general... It's never
    been a panacea, and there are definitely bad actors. That said,
    statistically there are 3 major factors to the success of someone.
    Parents stay together (two parents), finishing school, and staying
    employed. For the most part, having those three things in one's life
    will almost always lead to a life better than one's parents'.

    There are two pillars that should come before government, in my opinion.
    Those are family and charity (including religion). Government should
    only be the fallback after the other two, not in replacement of.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 16:18:21 2020
    On 8/30/2020 2:11 AM, Andeddu wrote:

    Not very likely. Most US families live pay cheque to pay cheque and social care
    can cost around one thousand dollars each week. The elderly ususally have to liquidate their assets to pay for their own care, however those who have nothing do not have to pay. In the UK that's what happens as a lot of older people anticipating a move into a care home transfer their houses and other assets to their offspring 7 years prior, so they do not have any assets worth seizing.

    Social care is one of the largest unfunded liabilities in the West and no country can afford it in the long-term. New solutions will have to be discovered for our generation. I hope automation can deal with this problem...
    robot carers may be the future.

    It can be easier if you shift your assets into a trust in your early 50s
    as well, long before you are close to that point. It takes some legal
    and accounting work to set these things up, but is often worth the
    effort. Another point is to not buy anything (such as a car) you
    wouldn't outright own, to avoid debt once you're in your 50's.

    Also, establish trustees that you *really* can trust and/or paid
    fiduciary services.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, so seek professional advice
    if you consider the above.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Mon Aug 31 16:24:05 2020
    On 8/30/2020 7:04 AM, Moondog wrote:

    I was raised as a Lutheran, and also lived in a rural environment. I have visitied Catholic churches and sat through Catholic services, though. From what I perceived, Catholicism is much more urbanized. More detail is put into the appearance of the church to inspire it's greatness and power, and some of the practices such as hearing a confession appeared to be means for a church run state to know who the troublemakers were.

    Some things were carried over or kept from Catholicism after the reformation, t
    however the Luthern faith has a little more compatibility with regards to expansionism because it's structure is stripped down. In a way they put less reliance in the church to connect with God. Lutherans still like to have a nice church to goto , however they are not as ornate. I have only been to two
    or three churches that were older than 100 years old, and they were a little
    more ornate, but otherwise newer churches put more in the utility of the building.

    In adult life I never really considered faith a reason to like or dislike peopel, however the strange thing is the better friends I had turned to be Lutheran without me knowing it right away.

    Not bragging, just an observation. Have others such as Catholics find theselv
    es making more friends of their faith without previous knowledge?

    Martin Luther (along with Thomas Jefferson) are really interesting men
    to read up on in terms of evaluating the more important lessons one can
    and should take in from the Bible... Most American "Christians" are
    offshoots closer to Lutheran or Babtist than to Catholic (though there
    are plenty of Catholics and Episcopal.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 19:28:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Never heard of him.

    You obviously don't do much reading.

    I do a LOT of reading. Just not about leftist-whackjobs out on
    the fringe of lunacy. Don't have any time for that kind of
    nonsense. I'm happy that you do, though.

    He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
    generation.

    LOL! Yeah right.

    So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
    relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.

    I did read it, and looked up the whacko (on Wikipedia). Thus my
    comments above. Yup.


    ... Reality failure. Press Enter to continuum.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 23:10:07 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Gamgee on Sun Aug 30 2020 10:20 am

    Never heard of him.

    You obviously don't do much reading. He's one of the most celebrated intelle of the previous generation. Also, he was speaking ill of Communism, likening to a sick religion... you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehenti


    Heard of who? Come on man. Don't make us hang.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Tracker1 on Tue Sep 1 21:02:39 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 2020 04:18 pm

    It can be easier if you shift your assets into a trust in your early 50s
    as well, long before you are close to that point. It takes some legal
    and accounting work to set these things up, but is often worth the
    effort. Another point is to not buy anything (such as a car) you
    wouldn't outright own, to avoid debt once you're in your 50's.

    Also, establish trustees that you *really* can trust and/or paid
    fiduciary services.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, so seek professional advice
    if you consider the above.

    I reckon you're probably right with those loopholes. I don't really begrudge those carry out creative accounting to avoid having their assets seized... after all, I'd rather give my assets to my children rather than the state, and the state looks after those with nothing to give... so why should they give anything? I've read you posts on this matter and agree with what you've said. There is no way we can continue down the route of nursing homes for those who CANNOT afford it. My worry is what will happen to those who do not have families capable or willing to look after them. Will they just be left homeless in miserable destitution? I hope private charities can help out. Bleak times ahead.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Tue Sep 1 22:19:54 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 2020 07:28 pm

    So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
    relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.

    I did read it, and looked up the whacko (on Wikipedia). Thus my
    comments above. Yup.

    Ahh, so you're trolling me... good one.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Wed Sep 2 09:52:00 2020
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
    relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.

    I did read it, and looked up the whacko (on Wikipedia). Thus my
    comments above. Yup.

    Ahh, so you're trolling me... good one.

    Nope, not at all. Just hoping you'll stop *your* trolling and
    searching for fellow commies to share your visions of world
    domination (and AI takeover of human will) with.

    At least maybe you can take your bullshit to the "Debate"
    sub-board instead of in here? It's got nothing to do with
    Internet Discussion.


    ... No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Wed Sep 2 16:16:28 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Tue Sep 01 2020 09:02 pm

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 2020 04:18 pm

    It can be easier if you shift your assets into a trust in your early 50s as well, long before you are close to that point. It takes some legal and accounting work to set these things up, but is often worth the effort. Another point is to not buy anything (such as a car) you wouldn't outright own, to avoid debt once you're in your 50's.

    Also, establish trustees that you *really* can trust and/or paid fiduciary services.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, so seek professional advice if you consider the above.

    I reckon you're probably right with those loopholes. I don't really begrudge those carry out creative accounting to avoid having their assets seized... after all, I'd rather give my assets to my children rather than the state, a the state looks after those with nothing to give... so why should they give anything? I've read you posts on this matter and agree with what you've said There is no way we can continue down the route of nursing homes for those wh CANNOT afford it. My worry is what will happen to those who do not have families capable or willing to look after them. Will they just be left homel in miserable destitution? I hope private charities can help out. Bleak times ahead.


    Well, if it helps, private and religions charities have been helping out elders non stop with this COVID-19 crisis.

    Some customers of the clinic I work for or the store I own stopped receiving their pension altogether. One kept receiving healthcare from her insurance but no pension, resulting in her being able to get a doctor but no food (!) Some church sponsored programs have been keeping this people afloat.

    I have also seen friends support friends who could not afford the groceries or the rent. For sure this is the first year I have had to lend money to somebody so he could do his grocery trip of the week (!). I don't trust human's goodwill in the long run, but I hope charity can help us short term.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Baguette@VERT/CAVEBBS to All on Thu Sep 3 01:06:00 2020
    I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.

    ===============================
    baguette@sdf.org
    https://hbaguette.neocities.org


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Baguette on Thu Sep 3 16:07:24 2020
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Baguette to All on Thu Sep 03 2020 01:06 am

    I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.

    First, everyone is making a huge fuss over nothing. this nuralink thing has been done for quite awhile, it's just that Musk now has a way to implant wires a bit easier.

    And did I miss the crash testing data on the Cybertruck? I was under the impression it hadn't been tested yet.

    DaiTengu

    ... The best audience is intelligent, well-educated and a little drunk.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BAGUETTE on Thu Sep 3 14:25:00 2020
    I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.

    I am not sure why anyone would want such an implant UNLESS they are
    disabled. I could see it being handy if I had lost use of my limbs but, otherwise, no way.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "I'm sick! I ought to be home in bed with a nurse."

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Fri Sep 4 09:16:14 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Wed Sep 02 2020 04:16 pm

    Well, if it helps, private and religions charities have been helping out elders non stop with this COVID-19 crisis.

    Some customers of the clinic I work for or the store I own stopped receiving their pension altogether. One kept receiving healthcare from her insurance but no pension, resulting in her being able to get a doctor but no food (!) Some church sponsored programs have been keeping this people afloat.

    I have also seen friends support friends who could not afford the groceries or the rent. For sure this is the first year I have had to lend money to somebody so he could do his grocery trip of the week (!). I don't trust human's goodwill in the long run, but I hope charity can help us short term.

    As long as the economy doesn't completely collapse, I think we can rely on the goodwill of others. There are plenty folk out there volunteering their time and/or money to help those in need. I don't think WE, as a collective people, are less benevolant than the government. I think that with the projected second wave of COVID-19, etc... things are going to get really tough for those who are particularly vulnerable so those who care will have to step up and do even more to assist those in need. Governments are taking an absolute beating with their diminished tax-revenue that support from them will be limited.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Baguette on Fri Sep 4 09:27:19 2020
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Baguette to All on Thu Sep 03 2020 01:06 am

    I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.

    I don't think anyone can be trusted enough to implant wires (neuralace) into other people's heads. The first wave of people who will get involved are those who are disabled, people with whom the technology can provide a legitimate benefit. Once the rest of us become normalised to the idea & see that it's helping people become mobile again, and curing aspects of mental health, etc... a lot of us will buy into and become invested in the idea as it will, in a more mature stage of development, provide benefits to those who are fully abled.

    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Ogg@august@nospamwantedashlies.ca to DaiTengu on Sun Sep 6 15:37:28 2020
    On 03/09/2020 5:07 p.m., DaiTengu wrote:

    First, everyone is making a huge fuss over nothing. this
    nuralink thing has been done for quite awhile, it's just
    that Musk now has a way to implant wires a bit easier.

    What exactly has "been done"?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/elon-musk-demonstrates-brain-computer-tech-neuralink-in-live-pigs.html

    Seems like all he was able to do was attach some kind of receiver to monitor brain activity in pigs. Will we ever know what the pigs think about that? <G>

    Then the article just talks about "potential" for other things. I would be more interested in the success/failure rate management of infections or the body's rejection of those things.

    If these pigs die from complications of this initial surgery, we will probably not hear about that.


    And did I miss the crash testing data on the Cybertruck? I
    was under the impression it hadn't been tested yet.

    The truck is so ugly. I lost interest in it.
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Ogg on Sun Sep 6 19:11:51 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to DaiTengu on Sun Sep 06 2020 03:37 pm

    nuralink thing has been done for quite awhile, it's just
    that Musk now has a way to implant wires a bit easier.

    What exactly has "been done"?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/elon-musk-demonstrates-brain-computer-tech -neuralink-in-live-pigs.html

    Seems like all he was able to do was attach some kind of receiver to monitor brain activity in pigs. Will we ever know what the pigs think about that? <G>

    wiring up an animal to a computer has been done before. Scientists are also able to insert tiny wires into insects and control them, too!

    Then the article just talks about "potential" for other things. I would be more interested in the success/failure rate management of infections or the body's rejection of those things.

    I'm also curious about that. Supposedly the "Neuralink" thing reduces those complications by a large amount.

    DaiTengu

    ... I got a new shadow. My last shadow wasn't doing what I was doing.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Atroxi@VERT to Arelor on Fri Sep 11 21:42:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 2020 04:20 pm

    Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm

    I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at
    how

    ma
    ssive this thread had become. I got sucked into
    installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
    whi
    ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
    everything's good now, I hope.

    How you all guys doing?

    Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.

    It's not that bad, but we had a break-in a few days ago. Lost my phone, two
    of my
    bags that had some valuables including a backup hard drive of my office
    files
    as we
    as my wallet which had a lot of personal IDs and cards. I got my phone
    number
    back
    now, my driver's license and my bank card. I was lucky I backed all of my
    dat
    a from
    the stolen phone a few weeks prior so I still had my contacts and photos
    with
    me.

    I'm quite disturbed until now, thinking that the thief was actually in my
    ro
    om whi
    I was sleeping, now I'm paranoid that I placed a barrel bolt lock on my
    door.
    But
    thinking about it right now, it's quite funny to me that my laptop which is
    a
    Think
    T400 was left there unmolested, silently compiling stuff while the robber
    did
    his j

    I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for
    a
    sking.

    What are you selling?

    ... You want to delete me right? Yeah, you sure do. You slut.

    Man that sucks. I usually sleep with two Rottweilers in my room and
    other 4 around the house, but Ibet a thief could get a pass from them
    by petting them behind the ears :-(

    That's better than nothing, haha! I really regret not having our dog in the main house when that happened. We've moved her now, so I guess that would deter anyone from trying to get into the house.

    I have a parafarmacy. Most of what I sell are vitamins and suplements. Lots of higyene and cosmetics (soap and the like too). It is not
    exactly a great business but it supplements my sysadmining and
    magazining.

    That sounds cool. Hey, as long as it pays the bills isn't it. Do you make your own stuff or do you buy it from someone else? Craft soaps seems to be something of a hit these days.

    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail/FreeBSD v0.52
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Atroxi on Fri Sep 11 18:05:30 2020
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Atroxi to Arelor on Fri Sep 11 2020 09:42 pm

    I have a parafarmacy. Most of what I sell are vitamins and suplements. Lots of higyene and cosmetics (soap and the like too). It is not exactly a great business but it supplements my sysadmining and magazining.

    That sounds cool. Hey, as long as it pays the bills isn't it. Do you make y own stuff or do you buy it from someone else? Craft soaps seems to be someth of a hit these days.

    I don't have in-house manufacturing.

    Basically I have taken the time to contact laboratories that supply premium. So while I carry industrial items, they are the best industrial production offers. I can wash my hands with one of my donkey milk soap, spend an hour cleaning the barn and petting the horses, and after that my hands are still smelling like donkey milk.

    Same with herbs and the like. I source teas and such from an importer that has its own factory for cutting and packaging the leaves and results show.

    Lots of the less natural things I carry in order to supply a local clinic. The doctors there love me because I can guarantee I have the stuff they usually prescribe to patients.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Wed Oct 28 14:09:51 2020
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Baguette on Fri Sep 04 2020 09:27 am

    health, etc... a lot of us will buy into and become invested in the idea as it will, in a more mature stage of development, provide benefits to those who are fully abled.

    I wanted to get a Neuralink so that I could get an Arduino board with a CANBUS-Shield connected to my cars ODBII port so that I could neurally interface with my car. The most the thing is gonna realistically be able to do is read signals and send them to other places via Bluetooth. I want an interface hard wire plug option.
    Crystal Palace, Orbitsville

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Vlk-451 on Wed Oct 28 21:58:19 2020
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Vlk-451 to Andeddu on Wed Oct 28 2020 02:09 pm

    I wanted to get a Neuralink so that I could get an Arduino board with a CANBUS-Shield connected to my cars ODBII port so that I could neurally interface with my car. The most the thing is gonna realistically be able to is read signals and send them to other places via Bluetooth. I want an interface hard wire plug option.

    No shit? Wish I knew WTF you were talking about. ;-)

    ... There's little worse than being peerless in a peer-review system.

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to HusTler on Sun Nov 29 23:36:41 2020
    Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Vlk-451 on Wed Oct 28 2020 09:58 pm

    No shit? Wish I knew WTF you were talking about. ;-)

    ... There's little worse than being peerless in a peer-review system.

    You think I can afford to get an education? I just wana be able to hack my car with my brain so that I don't have to replace some hard to get old stock window switch for my door panel on my drivers side so that I can smoke my Marlboro Reds in peace without having to drive down the road with my driver door open. And so that Whenever someone says something seriously stupid when I'm driving, my brain involentary causes the car to break check, hopefully reducing the instances of idiotic utterances in my presence. That or increasing the number of fatal crashes so that I can escape this fresh hell.

    You can get an idea of what I'm talking about watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAzXM5vsi0

    Crystal Palace, Orbitsville

    ---
    Posted via InnerRealmBBS
    ---
    Synchronet Inner Realm BBS - Charlotte, NC - innerrealmbbs.us