esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break
anything or have screws left over!
Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when
the fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual
problem, but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it.
I'm curious - did you consider replacing the fans at all or did
you just want to fix the ones you have?
Well, you snipped it out, but quoting from his opening paragraph... "and so I bought some replacement fans." ... ;-)
esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when the
fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual problem,
but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it. I'm curious - did you consider replacing the fans at all or did you just want to fix the ones you have?
Hello MRO!
** On Tuesday 24.01.23 - 16:27, MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:
I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here for
a month...
why didnt you just use amazon
It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China,
literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger
not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the
product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from
China. It too will be about a month in transit.
Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-
SNIP
It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China, literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger
not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the
product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from
China. It too will be about a month in transit.
Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made in
China? I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but the investment is worth it (IMO).
Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-
SNIP
It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China, literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger
not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the
product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from
China. It too will be about a month in transit.
Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made in
China? I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but the investment is worth it (IMO).
Cougar
... "Don't mince words, Ogg ... what do you *REALLY* think?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
During Christmas time the stores sell these big tin's of cookies from Scandinavian countries. I lokoed at the small print and one said, "packaged in Denmark." The cookies and tins were made in China, Vietnam, or the Phillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in order to be a product of Denmark.
Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Jan 26 2023 11:43 am
During Christmas time the stores sell these big tin's of cookies from Scandinavian countries. I lokoed at the small print and one said, "packaged in Denmark." The cookies and tins were made in China, Vietnam or the Phillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in order to be a product of Denmark.
I wonder how those cookies stay fresh, being shipped all around the world li
And that reminds me of my car.. My car was assembled in Germany, but I foun here to the US where it was sold. And apparently it was still profitable to
Nightfox
It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same price>point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees so
Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, China have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at a loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of businessnd
then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do not plan that far in advance. They want immediate profits.
So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry
to produce merchandise up to European and American standards that at
some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and
experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in china, and sends an European foreman to
oversee the production of watches, you will find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman is not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bought for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.
Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
It's probably packed in nitrogen and shipped priority shipping or by
air. From there it is packed in airtight tins and sealed.
I worked for a plastics company that opened a factory in China and
helped them with setting up the factory for quality control and all
the processes which were already in effect at US plants. So
basically we gave them everything they needed to get started as
competition. (if they needed it to begin with)
Because American workers won't work 12 hour days for chump change and a bowlQuoting Ogg to Mro <=-
It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same price>point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees so
>much less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.
Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, China have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at a loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of business a then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do not plan that far in advance. They want immediate profits.
Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures say the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactly slave labour.
They do work efficiently.. I recall years back, probably when wages were qui a bit lower there, a big US manufacturer of sporting goods was making footba helmets in the USA. But, they were shipping the helmets to China to have the mouth guards attached, and then shipping them back since that was cheaper th doing it in the USA.
Also, the Chinese gov't hates paying people to do nothing. They will keep a factory operating that is failing miserably, and then dump the products on foreign markets at ridiculously low prices, rather than let the company shut down.
Ironically, they will also mechanize a plant to make more products using few workers to increase the potential profits where Unions here would never stan for that.
It's hard to compete with that sort of mentality.
I worked for a plastics company that opened a factory in China and
helped them with setting up the factory for quality control and all
the processes which were already in effect at US plants. So
basically we gave them everything they needed to get started as competition. (if they needed it to begin with)
Something similar happened in Japan after WWII. Their factories got
rebuilt with better state-of-the-art stuff while the US factories did not get upgraded. They also listened to Demming where American companies would not.
* SLMR 2.1a * Do unto others BEFORE they do unto YOU.
Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exact slave labour.
there's a lot of racism and propaganda that gives us the wrong view of chi
That is true, but they also do have some slave labor there. China is not
at all nice to their minority groups. Look up Ughyrs (sp?) for some idea
as to how they treat non-Han peoples.
* SLMR 2.1a * Energize! said Picard....and this pink bunny appeared...
Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-Because American workers won't work 12 hour days for chump change and
a bowl of ramen noodles, or stand still for constant government surveillance. And American consumers are as much to blame....they'll
pay 2 grand for an Apple iPhone thats designed in Cupertino, and
assembled in Flungdung by a girl who's supporting herself and her aged parents on 3 bucks an hour. How I wish we COULD "Buy American". (sighhhh..)
Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybe still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find so most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there are always other offers out there.
Re: How far I've come...
By: Cougar428 to TED LONG on Mon Jan 30 2023 03:42 pm
Most of the automotive PIC's and PLA's that used to be made in US silico ua and Beijing, right next to the Intel CPU plants.
Most of the RF and analog chips formerly made in the states by National from a nation led by one of the looniest dictators in the world. If Kim Jung older military tech gonna come from?
IMHO, the Chips Act is 20 years too late.
---
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unions in the usa are not what they used to be. There are a lot of right>k states and that just doesn't work with a union structure. people dont h
>join the union but they have to be protected by it. in this structure pe
>e held back due to the other union nuances, especially in pay. You can b
> in a job for 5 years before you make 2 dollars more.
My first long term job, part time while in school working at a grocery store taught me all I needed to know about unions. They have a union similar in strength to those for Car Makers and such. I had some 'bad habits'.. I was spending a Lot of money building up a muscle car (575 HP Chevelle SS) and a custom Triumph Bonneville motorcycle so I needed as much income as possible. The best way to get called first for extra hours when someone didn't show up was to be a very hard worker.. Long story short, I was good enough that I earned a merit raise, the first one in the company in 15 years, for breaking company production records.. This earned me about 35% more money than others in my situation, and led to me being cornered one night in a remote staircas and threatened by the local union rep. for making everyone else 'look bad'.. I told him to get stuffed but after that I had very little use for unions.
Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybe still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find so most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there are always other offers out there.
The country also restricts travel from one province to another to regluate>jobs and commerce. This ia a way to keep farmers' families in farming, so
Yes, there's no question it's a lousy place to live. That's why so many wealthy Chinese move to the USA and Canada. Way too much government
control over everything there.. The only unusual thing there, being a communist country, is that they do seem to have a middle class. Usually
there is a tiny percentage of very rich people and the rest are all
super poor.
I think the ones who are loyal to the party can make a good living. That>is how it used to work in the USSR. Are the ones that "move" to Canada
Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybe> still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find so
To put it in terms a Communist would understand, the power Unions hold comes>from maintaining the monopoly of workforce supply. If enough workers could
Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybe> still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find so
I worked at a salaried job, then the plant shut down and relocated the repair>service department to the main plant. The main plant was a "closed shop"
At first we thought being unionized was repressive, but later on we saw how m>ch certain supervisiors would try to make up conflicting policies depending
No expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrate here as easily as anyone else. It might take a while, as there are huge numbers of people that want to come to Canada (at least until they find out about the weather.. Ha!) but I'd assume many coming from China would be wealthy which probably helps the situation. But that's for a full time move. If they wanted to still return to their own country at times then they would probably be restricted to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Quoting Rob Mccart to Moondog <=-
Often management is a victim of the "Peter Principal.
There are a couple of definitions of that but the one I refer to is
that a person will rise in a company to just beyond the level of their competence, suggesting Most managers are incompetent at their jobs.
Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talking
about the situation - is there something you would do differenty if
you were the one in charge?
In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on the
sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, but
never really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.
>> here as easily as anyone else. If they wanted to still return toNo expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrate
That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I got>the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.
I had heard that Chinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheap>during the seasons they are not there because they cannot stay.
That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I got>the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.
Well, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Russia
or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing so because they don't like the system they are fleeing from and, even if that's not the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convert us to their Commie ways.. B)
In a lot of cases it is wealthy people there looking for places to invest money they've managed to hide from their government where there's a good chance the places will go up in price. The limits on how long they can
stay would likely be based on if they want to immigrate permanently and
the hassle of the waiting period until they could get permission to move
here if they do. I expect the super rich in China have a better time of things than the average people there (think of Russian Oligarchs) and, although they may want to take advantage of things in the more 'free' countries, they may not have any desire to move here permanently, plus
they may have a major problem getting much more than a tiny percentage
of all their $Billions out of their home country..
>> here as easily as anyone else. If they wanted to still return toNo expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrate
>> their own country at times then they would probably be restricted
>> to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I go>the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.
Well, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Russ or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing so because they don't like the system they are fleeing from and, even if that's not the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convert us to their Commie ways.. B)
I had heard that Chinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheap>during the seasons they are not there because they cannot stay.
>So I think that is where I got the idea that none of them could stay.
In a lot of cases it is wealthy people there looking for places to invest money they've managed to hide from their government where there's a good chance the places will go up in price. The limits on how long they can
stay would likely be based on if they want to immigrate permanently and
the hassle of the waiting period until they could get permission to move here if they do. I expect the super rich in China have a better time of things than the average people there (think of Russian Oligarchs) and, although they may want to take advantage of things in the more 'free' countries, they may not have any desire to move here permanently, plus
they may have a major problem getting much more than a tiny percentage
of all their $Billions out of their home country..
Often management is a victim of the "Peter Principal.> There are a couple of definitions of that but the one I refer to is
Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talking>about the situation - is there something you would do differenty if
In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on the>sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, but
>> or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing sWell, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Rus
Cuba is another country I didn't think you were able to permanently leave>without fleeing. I know that used to be true. If they are able to leave
Quoting Rob Mccart to Cougar428 <=-
Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talking
about the situation - is there something you would do differenty if
you were the one in charge?
In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on the
sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, but
never really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.
Have you ever tried to tell your boss that he's doing something wrong?
And the problem with incompetent bosses is they are paranoid about
losing their jobs so they will either ignore you, tell you to shut up,
or try to get rid of you in case higher-ups realize there is someone smarter than them available to do the job.
I say all that with a smile. I didn't intend for it to sound confrontatonal with you since I agree with your basic idea.
I told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did that
rather than trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it, basically doing about 8 or 10 hours of production in 5 hours.
In the end I stopped working for other people by the time I was 32. If
you are your own boss you only have to answer to the customers and, in most of the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I asked for so that I would be readily available for them when they needed me again.
I told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did that> rather than trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it,
Sounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as long>as they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.
I've gotten bitten by that dog a number of times. The boss sounds>like he trusted his people.
In the end I stopped working for other people by the time I was 32.>be.
Now there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem to
Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break
anything or have screws left over!
calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break
anything or have screws left over!
I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago had
the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box. Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...
Feels good doesn't it.
Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pm
I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.
Pretty much this.
China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk which was
good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.
So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to produce
merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in china, and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you will find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman is not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bought for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.
A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chinesse construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up with quality stuff."
--Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80's they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
---
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
On 2023-01-28, Arelor <PALANT!Arelor@vert.synchro.net> wrote:
Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pm
I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.
Pretty much this.
China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk whic good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.
So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to pr merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in chi and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you wi find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bou for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.
A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chiness construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up w quality stuff."
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
---Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80's they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.
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