• Owning vs Ride Share

    From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wed Sep 7 11:22:06 2022
    On 9/6/22 13:21, Nightfox wrote:
    If you don't have to work in an office every day, or if you live
    near your work, then it's better to not have a car and ride share.
    If you commute over 30 minutes each way, and take road trips through
    the year or travel more, you're better off having transportation.

    There's the freedom matter as well, not to mention shopping becomes
    more constrained if you like to shop in stores.

    If you order your groceries & everything online, I'd think the
    delivery fees and tips could add up significantly.

    It depends... if you are making payments on a $50k car at $900/mo and insurance on top of that, there's a *lot* of room for delivery fees and
    ride share apps... even if you uber a few times a week. And $50k is
    just a middle ground for a lot of newer cars if you're including
    SUV/Truck options.
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Wed Sep 7 11:24:20 2022
    On 9/6/22 13:44, Arelor wrote:
    The real issue with ridesharing is that oftentimes you end up
    waiting for the other rideshares to show up. Sometimes they
    don't show up and they don't bother to notify you. I used to
    rideshare a lot in the past and, while it cuts costs, it is
    such a pain in the ass at times. A regular bus line is so
    much better (if it exists) despite the fact bus lines have a
    tendency to be poor solutions.

    I'm referring more to "ride share" like Uber/Lift over real ride
    sharing... Though real ride sharing can help a lot if you live/work
    near the same place(s) or in route.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Sep 7 15:03:40 2022
    Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Sep 07 2022 11:22 am

    It depends... if you are making payments on a $50k car at $900/mo and insurance on top of that, there's a *lot* of room for delivery fees and ride share apps... even if you uber a few times a week. And $50k is
    just a middle ground for a lot of newer cars if you're including SUV/Truck options.

    I feel like $50K is more than I'd want to spend on a car (and would probably buy more than I'd really need in a vehicle). I think I could find a decent car for a lot less than that (and even less if it's a used car). And ideally if the cost is low enough, I could just buy it outright and avoid paying extra in interest that would come with a loan.

    Nightfox

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Tracker1 on Fri Sep 9 00:07:12 2022
    Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Sep 07 2022 11:22 am

    If you order your groceries & everything online, I'd think the
    delivery fees and tips could add up significantly.

    It depends... if you are making payments on a $50k car at $900/mo and insurance on top of that, there's a *lot* of room for delivery fees and
    ride share apps... even if you uber a few times a week. And $50k is
    just a middle ground for a lot of newer cars if you're including
    SUV/Truck options.

    And if you invested that money, you'd be getting a return, so the total cost would be less when you offset dividends you could be getting.

    I think people are just USED to the idea that you buy a car. It's the done thing, just part of the culture. Something we as a society are brainwashed(?) into doing, an automatic action when we reach that life stage. I would bet most people who bought a car, did not assidiously research the cost/benefit implications of buying vs putting that money elsewhere and using ad hoc services. For many people, whether this lands in favour of buying or not will depend on circumstances. But young people in urban areas, who can walk or bike to work could very well have looked at it and found that not buying is better.

    I work at a company, where quite a few white collar professionals walk or bike to work.

    People are now evaluating it more critically, and realising it doesn't add up.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Thu Sep 8 08:43:31 2022
    Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Boraxman to Tracker1 on Fri Sep 09 2022 12:07 am

    I think people are just USED to the idea that you buy a car. It's the done thing, just part of the culture. Something we as a society are brainwashed(?) into doing, an automatic action when we reach that life stage. I would bet most people who bought a car, did not assidiously research the cost/benefit implications of buying vs putting that money elsewhere and using ad hoc services. For many people, whether this lands in favour of buying or not will depend on circumstances. But young people in urban areas, who can walk or bike to work could very well have looked at it and found that not buying is better.

    While it makes sense to do a cost/benefit analysis, I also think sometimes people are just willing to pay a bit more for convenience if it has enough value to them. Owning your own car means being able to go where you want, when you want, and being able to transport things. Getting to work and back home every day and not having to wait for a bus (and also not having to wait while the bus picks up & drops off other passengers) is useful. Being able to transport groceries in a car is useful, even if the store is relatively close (I wouldn't want to carry bags of groceries while walking, even just a few blocks).

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Thu Sep 8 07:24:00 2022
    Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

    It depends... if you are making payments on a $50k car at $900/mo and insurance on top of that, there's a *lot* of room for delivery fees and ride share apps... even if you uber a few times a week. And $50k is
    just a middle ground for a lot of newer cars if you're including
    SUV/Truck options.

    After the supply-chain debacle, I'll skip the dealer with their "because we can" markups and take that 2006 Honda Accord with 330K miles, peeling clear coat, dirty but intact interior, and complete service records for $1600 that
    I saw.

    I'm amazed at what auto-detailers (or an owner with a portable Bissell cleaner) can do to an interior. I'm not going to buy another used car
    without having the interior detailed again.

    I bought a 2011 Mazda CX-9 for $8000 (great car, killer AWD, seats 7, fun to drive, doesn't feel like 5000+ pounds) and had the interior detailed by
    those people who come to your office with a van. Steam cleaned and
    conditioned leather, headliner cleaned, all the plastic cleaned and treated, carpets and mats shampooed and it looked like new on the inside.

    The outside was in pretty good shape - a hand wash, tire treatment, a little cleaner on the headlights and it was good to go.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Thu Sep 8 07:28:00 2022
    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    I'm referring more to "ride share" like Uber/Lift over real ride sharing... Though real ride sharing can help a lot if you live/work
    near the same place(s) or in route.

    Uber/Lyft always bothered me. I prefer a plain old taxi. Most of my cab experience was in San Francisco, though - you could walk outside downtown
    and hail a cab in a couple of minutes.

    They all had computerized ride hailing systems, but one time I took a cab
    it had broken down and they had the dispatcher on the radio droning out intersection names and traffic advisories. It felt like something out of an old noir film.

    For some reason, years later, I remember the dispatcher, in that droning monotone he had, reporting a hazard:

    "There's an accident at XXX and YYY, a cab, a truck and a cab".


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thu Sep 8 07:30:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    I feel like $50K is more than I'd want to spend on a car (and would probably buy more than I'd really need in a vehicle). I think I could find a decent car for a lot less than that (and even less if it's a
    used car). And ideally if the cost is low enough, I could just buy it outright and avoid paying extra in interest that would come with a
    loan.

    Get the loan, do all of the negotiation up front. Make sure the loan doesn't have a prepayment penalty and pay it off in 30 days.

    You have more negotiating power when they're writing a note on the car, as they make a ton of money on the financing. They have less incentive to negotiate when you're paying cash.


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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Nightfox on Sat Sep 10 00:05:53 2022
    Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu Sep 08 2022 08:43 am


    While it makes sense to do a cost/benefit analysis, I also think sometimes people are just willing to pay a bit more for convenience if it has enough value to them. Owning your own car means being able to go where you want, when you want, and being able to transport things. Getting to work and back home every day and not having to wait for a bus (and also not having to wait while the bus picks up & drops off other passengers) is useful. Being able to transport groceries in a car is useful, even if the store is relatively close (I wouldn't want to carry bags of groceries while walking, even just a few blocks).

    Try to look at the bigger picture. I know in our society we only ever look at things from a purely individualistic point of view, but the car isn't just you buying one. The tax payer has to pay for infrastructure, this is a MAJOR expense too. It's more than just buying a toothbrush. The whole idea of the car is an investment that society makes at large. Considering that the speed and ease at which we travel in cars declines over time (its taking longer and longer to drive around the city and costs more and more to ameliorate traffic snarls), surely the diminishing returns would be something to consider.

    At some point, we as a society need to examine this critically, and look to urban design which reduces the frequency in which we find the car to be the only viable transportation option.

    I've stated this like 100 times so far, and everyone is fixated on their own personal purchase.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Sep 9 11:09:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Thu Sep 08 2022 07:24 am

    Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

    It depends... if you are making payments on a $50k car at $900/mo and insurance on top of that, there's a *lot* of room for delivery fees and ride share apps... even if you uber a few times a week. And $50k is just a middle ground for a lot of newer cars if you're including SUV/Truck options.

    After the supply-chain debacle, I'll skip the dealer with their "because we can" markups and take that 2006 Honda Accord with 330K miles, peeling clear coat, dirty but intact interior, and complete service records for $1600 that I saw.

    I'm amazed at what auto-detailers (or an owner with a portable Bissell cleaner) can do to an interior. I'm not going to buy another used car without having the interior detailed again.

    I bought a 2011 Mazda CX-9 for $8000 (great car, killer AWD, seats 7, fun to drive, doesn't feel like 5000+ pounds) and had the interior detailed by those people who come to your office with a van. Steam cleaned and conditioned leather, headliner cleaned, all the plastic cleaned and treated, carpets and mats shampooed and it looked like new on the inside.

    The outside was in pretty good shape - a hand wash, tire treatment, a little cleaner on the headlights and it was good to go.


    ... TWENTY PERCENT OF DENTISTS RECOMMEND GUM

    Engines last way longer than they did 50 years ago. Everyone likes saying, "t hey don't make them like they used to," but sometimes that is a good thing. Not everything was made over-engineered. Cars from the 50's and 60's were
    made for an economy where most folks could replace a car every 3-4 years. if you got 100k miles, you had that car forever and the next owner was the scrap dealer.

    The impasse I've run into is living in the snow belt, and icy roads are treate d with salt in order to melt the ice. Unless you're religious about spraying off your car and under body, rust sets in. my nephew bought a diesel truck with 200k miles on it, and bragged he could drive it over 300k miles. That might be the case if it doesn't rust in half before then.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Fri Sep 9 14:28:00 2022
    Boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-

    While it makes sense to do a cost/benefit analysis, I also think sometimes people are just willing to pay a bit more for convenience if it has enough value to them. Owning your own car means being able to go where you want, when you want, and being able to transport things. Getting to work and back home every day and not having to wait for a bus (and also not having to wait while the bus picks up & drops off other passengers) is useful. Being able to transport groceries in a car is useful, even if the store is relatively close (I wouldn't want to carry bags of groceries while walking, even just a few blocks).

    Try to look at the bigger picture. I know in our society we only
    ever look at things from a purely individualistic point of view,
    but the car isn't just you buying one. The tax payer has to pay
    for infrastructure, this is a MAJOR expense too. It's more than
    just buying a toothbrush. The whole idea of the car is an
    investment that society makes at large. Considering that the
    speed and ease at which we travel in cars declines over time (its
    taking longer and longer to drive around the city and costs more
    and more to ameliorate traffic snarls), surely the diminishing
    returns would be something to consider.

    At some point, we as a society need to examine this critically,
    and look to urban design which reduces the frequency in which we
    find the car to be the only viable transportation option.

    I've stated this like 100 times so far, and everyone is fixated
    on their own personal purchase.

    Perhaps that is because you're wrong.



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  • From Irish_Monk@VERT/WARPED to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Sep 10 09:16:00 2022
    After the supply-chain debacle, I'll skip the dealer with their "because we can" markups and take that 2006 Honda Accord with 330K miles,
    peeling clear coat, dirty but intact interior, and complete service records for $1600 that I saw.

    I bought a 2010 Toyota Tundra in 2011. In 2011 this is when nobody wanted the bigger trucks/engines. So I was able to get it for a really good deal. I make sure all the maintenance is done on the truck. Its starting to rust a little here and there. But runs great. Im hoping to get 10 more years out of it if I can. Like someone said on here, automobiles are a horrible investment. But part of that is partially do to the way people think now a days. Most people buy a vehicle and only use for like 2 years, trade in for a very low value, and buy another new vehicle. Most likely to just keep up with the Jones.

    |10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

    ... I know a good tagline when I steal one!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Irish_Monk on Sat Sep 10 16:51:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Irish_Monk to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Sep 10 2022 09:16 am

    After the supply-chain debacle, I'll skip the dealer with their "becaus we can" markups and take that 2006 Honda Accord with 330K miles, peeling clear coat, dirty but intact interior, and complete service records for $1600 that I saw.

    I bought a 2010 Toyota Tundra in 2011. In 2011 this is when nobody wanted th uns great. Im hoping to get 10 more years out of it if I can. Like someone s trade in for a very low value, and buy another new vehicle. Most likely to j

    |10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

    ... I know a good tagline when I steal one!

    My father has a 2000 withthe Toyota Racing Development suspension package. Still runs like a top. Nice ride, feels much better than most Fords and Chevy's I've been in.

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  • From Irish_Monk@VERT/WARPED to Moondog on Sat Sep 10 21:29:00 2022
    I bought a 2010 Toyota Tundra in 2011. In 2011 this is when nobody want uns great. Im hoping to get 10 more years out of it if I can. Like some trade in for a very low value, and buy another new vehicle. Most likely

    Irish_Monk

    My father has a 2000 withthe Toyota Racing Development suspension
    package. Still runs like a top. Nice ride, feels much better than most Fords and Chevy's I've been in.

    Yeah I have always been pretty impressed with Toyota cars and trucks myself.

    |10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

    ... I think I am, therefore, I am... I think.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Fri Sep 9 07:46:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-

    While it makes sense to do a cost/benefit analysis, I also think
    sometimes people are just willing to pay a bit more for convenience if
    it has enough value to them. Owning your own car means being able to
    go where you want, when you want, and being able to transport things.


    I never dated without a car. Couldn't imagine how bus dating would have worked, but I suppose it works somehow.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Gamgee on Mon Sep 12 17:45:08 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Sep 11 2022 05:25 pm

    your date fucks a guy with a car

    Not everybody dates strippers.


    No, not everybody does, but still MRO has a bit of a point.

    Relationships have to be maintained. You need to do interesting stuff with your girl or she will become bored and move on with somebody who is more interesting. Being interesting takes resources and that often means if you lack some key resource, you are a bad catch.

    I know I am the anti-romantic prick in town, but with attention spans shortened to the point they are, my observation is that gals ditch their boyfriends more frequently than I take a shower (and I do multiple times a day). Men are very low value in the dating scene because there are so many of us drooling after crumbs. Girls get to decide which guy they like and to change opinion at any time. If you cannot take your girl to places you are pretty much fucked. Rather, you are pretty much not-fucking.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Tue Sep 13 00:21:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to Gamgee on Mon Sep 12 2022 05:45 pm

    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Sep 11 2022 05:25 pm

    your date fucks a guy with a car

    Not everybody dates strippers.


    No, not everybody does, but still MRO has a bit of a point.

    Relationships have to be maintained. You need to do interesting stuff with y girl or she will become bored and move on with somebody who is more interesting. Being interesting takes resources and that often means if you l some key resource, you are a bad catch.

    I know I am the anti-romantic prick in town, but with attention spans shorte to the point they are, my observation is that gals ditch their boyfriends mo frequently than I take a shower (and I do multiple times a day). Men are ver low value in the dating scene because there are so many of us drooling after crumbs. Girls get to decide which guy they like and to change opinion at any time. If you cannot take your girl to places you are pretty much fucked. Rather, you are pretty much not-fucking.


    --
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    It's worse when you get in your 40's and 50's. One would imagine an older woman would be more confident, less crazy, and more independent. That is not the case. There's nothing like a divorcee that is in a hurry to move in with you because she's temporarily living back home with her parents or a grandparent, and feels uncomfortable bringing a man over. If they have children or college age young adults, lock up and hide all your nice stuff in case the kids are thieves. I'm not saying all kids from broken families are ho ods. Trust and respect need to be earned.

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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Tue Sep 13 17:25:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I know I am the anti-romantic prick in town, but with attention spans shortened to the point they are, my observation is that gals ditch
    their boyfriends more frequently than I take a shower (and I do
    multiple times a day). Men are very low value in the dating scene
    because there are so many of us drooling after crumbs. Girls get to
    decide which guy they like and to change opinion at any time. If you cannot take your girl to places you are pretty much fucked. Rather, you are pretty much not-fucking.

    Careful, you are close to incel territory there.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Wed Sep 14 14:01:35 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Tue Sep 13 2022 05:25 pm

    Careful, you are close to incel territory there.


    Reality is then close to incel territory, then, whatever that is supposed to mean.

    Romanticism is dead. Now members in couples just look for selfish instant
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Wed Sep 14 14:05:18 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to bex on Wed Sep 14 2022 02:01 pm

    Romanticism is dead. Now members in couples just look for selfish instant

    uh, the line got cut. The whole sentence is that members in couples just look for instrant gratification and just don't put any effort in relationships whatsoever. If you are the sort of person who actually wants to put any effort into it, chances are the other person is not gonna reciprocate.

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl and impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Wed Sep 14 13:59:21 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to bex on Wed Sep 14 2022 02:01 pm

    Reality is then close to incel territory, then, whatever that is supposed to mean.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Wed Sep 14 18:18:53 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Sep 14 2022 01:59 pm

    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to bex on Wed Sep 14 2022 02:01 pm

    Reality is then close to incel territory, then, whatever that is suppos to mean.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

    Nightfox

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    I honestly don't know how the idea that if you don't pour resources into
    things you won't get crap done can be tagged as incel, then.


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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Arelor on Wed Sep 14 17:55:00 2022
    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so
    guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl and impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Can't say this has been my experience at all. *shrug*

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to esc on Thu Sep 15 03:25:06 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: esc to Arelor on Wed Sep 14 2022 05:55 pm

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl an impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Can't say this has been my experience at all. *shrug*


    The number of times I have had a girl make an advance on me is far smaller than the number of girls I have made an advancement on.

    My friends have a similar experience.

    If one sits on his ass expecting for the girl he likes to show up and ask for a date, he is up for a disappointment.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Thu Sep 15 10:03:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to esc on Thu Sep 15 2022 03:25 am

    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: esc to Arelor on Wed Sep 14 2022 05:55 pm

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Can't say this has been my experience at all. *shrug*


    The number of times I have had a girl make an advance on me is far smaller t the number of girls I have made an advancement on.

    My friends have a similar experience.

    If one sits on his ass expecting for the girl he likes to show up and ask fo date, he is up for a disappointment.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    That's one thing I don't like about friends playing matchmaker. That initial spark or sense of chemistry isn't always present. Even though I have never been diagnosed, I suspect I have autism spectrum disorder, and I do not have the same level of emotional need for attachment as most people. I'll go out and have fun, however the rate at which i would like things to progress are much slower. I don't get that "OMG I need her in my life" excited like when
    I was a teen. I think I got burned out long ago, and refuse to trust my feelings of what is love or lust.

    I mentioned this in another thread, dating in your 40's and 50's is a minefield. I think this is neither a man or woman only thing, but some get so
    used to being attached or were married immediately from high school, they cannot function as individuals. They cling too hard on requiring a nother person for emotion support and stability. I'm not sure I would call that love . Maybe a security blanket.

    Another annoyance is I get get in a relationship so i can hear all the crazy bullshit her ex had put ther through. I guess after 20+ years it's hard to avoid talking about her ex, but I get tired of that shit. if they still talk with their ex,it makes me wonder if it is completely over with them?

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thu Sep 15 12:09:21 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Sep 15 2022 10:03 am

    people. I'll go out and have fun, however the rate at which i would like things to progress are much slower. I don't get that "OMG I need her in my life" excited like when I was a teen. I think I got burned out long ago, and refuse to trust my feelings of what is love or lust.

    It can take time to get to know someone and know they're right for you. If you feel like you really need someone in your life right away and/or want to move in or marry them quickly, you're taking a gamble.

    Another annoyance is I get get in a relationship so i can hear all the crazy bullshit her ex had put ther through. I guess after 20+ years it's hard to avoid talking about her ex, but I get tired of that shit. if they still talk with their ex,it makes me wonder if it is completely over with them?

    Some people still talk to their ex because they had children together. Or sometimes they might have had a stillborn child who they still want to remember and honor, etc.. Some people also have a friendly divorce and are still on good terms with their ex.

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Moondog on Thu Sep 15 14:22:44 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Sep 15 2022 10:03 am

    I mentioned this in another thread, dating in your 40's and 50's is a minefield. I think this is neither a man or woman only thing, but some get
    used to being attached or were married immediately from high school, they cannot function as individuals. They cling too hard on requiring a nother person for emotion support and stability. I'm not sure I would call that lo . Maybe a security blanket.

    Another annoyance is I get get in a relationship so i can hear all the crazy bullshit her ex had put ther through. I guess after 20+ years it's hard to avoid talking about her ex, but I get tired of that shit. if they still talk with their ex,it makes me wonder if it is completely over with them?


    I think our society has a big problem, in which we are served this idea that unless we are in a relationship, we are losers. A lot of people try to get into a relationship, but when you ask them what the goals are for such relationship, they have not a clue.

    Seriously? Are you gonna sink so many resources into something and you don t know what you do want it for?

    My hypothesis is that a lot of people just tries to get into relationships because that is what is expected from them. I think my aunt has never loved anybody, for example. Her first marriage was due to the fact "it was the right time for a wedding". The next one was because he needed a guy to use up and cast aside once spent.

    The most powerful reason for geting in a stable relationship would be to further up some common long term interest. I am talking of things like building a family, or a business, or a long-term operation. I think a girl you can do such things with is worth the investment, but I have serious doubts there is a lot of marging for doing any of these things with a post 40s yo woman. WIth one of those you are going to have the burden of her past relationships and kids and whatever have you, and at that point I seriously doubt you are going to have the energy to build anything meaningful as if one were in his 20s.

    I am going to be very crude outright and declare most women past that point are a bad investment not even a vulture fund should consider for their investment folder, unless the plan is to use and dump the assets.

    Don't forget to hit the Like button and subscribe to this channel if you don't want to miss my awesome advice on emotional investment :-)

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  • From Charles Blackburn@VERT/FBOBBS to Nightfox on Thu Sep 15 18:58:06 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Sep 15 2022 12:09:21

    people. I'll go out and have fun, however the rate at which i would like things to progress are much slower. I don't get that "OMG I need her in my life" excited like when I was a teen. I think
    I got burned out long ago, and refuse to trust my feelings of what is love or lust.
    It can take time to get to know someone and know they're right for you. If you feel like you really need someone in your life right away and/or want to move in or marry them quickly, you're taking a
    gamble.

    and just to add to this... It is a gamble NOT worth taking... i've made that mistake TWICE... and gotten divorced.... TWICE... don't be like me... Spend time with them first and i dont mean for 6 months lol

    Another annoyance is I get get in a relationship so i can hear all the crazy bullshit her ex had put ther through. I guess after 20+ years it's hard to avoid talking about her ex, but I get
    tired of that shit. if they still talk with their ex,it makes me wonder if it is completely over with them?

    Unfortunately, you're going to get that... Just reinforce to them that you're not their ex and that they need to trust you... if at the end of the day they contonue comparing you to them, then they don't wann a be with you they wanna be with their ex. *cough second divorce cough*

    Some people still talk to their ex because they had children together. Or sometimes they might have had a stillborn child who they still want to remember and honor, etc.. Some people also have a
    friendly divorce and are still on good terms with their ex.

    I get the stillborn thing, and i've been lucky, never had to go through anything like that, i've still civil with my 2nd divorcee, the first one i havent spoken to since then... she was the proverbial "only got married for the kid". havent seen said kid since he was 8 (not by choice either)... that was over 10 years ago now. but out of respect for my current girlfriend i don't talk about it.

    regards
    Charles Blackburn
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Sep 15 22:16:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Sep 15 2022 12:09 pm

    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Sep 15 2022 10:03 am

    people. I'll go out and have fun, however the rate at which i would lik things to progress are much slower. I don't get that "OMG I need her in life" excited like when I was a teen. I think I got burned out long ago and refuse to trust my feelings of what is love or lust.

    It can take time to get to know someone and know they're right for you. If

    Another annoyance is I get get in a relationship so i can hear all the crazy bullshit her ex had put ther through. I guess after 20+ years it' hard to avoid talking about her ex, but I get tired of that shit. if th still talk with their ex,it makes me wonder if it is completely over wi them?

    Some people still talk to their ex because they had children together. Or s x.

    Nightfox

    i understand friendly divorces and communication due to shared custody. It's when you hear enough t make you feel like you're the second prize and she
    still wants her first prize.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Fri Sep 16 02:28:28 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Sep 15 2022 08:14 pm

    Some people also have a friendly divorce and are
    still on good terms with their ex.

    they call that fuck buddies. another unhealthy thing.

    I didn't suggest anything about fucking your ex..

    Nightfox

    No, you didn't, but I the untold reason why the conversation has branched out down this path is precisely because there exist doubt somebody is fucking her ex XD

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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to DaiTengu on Fri Sep 16 13:26:00 2022
    Incorrect, that group of drooling dipshits named themselves that.

    Yeah lol I seem to recall some dude attacked a bunch of people while saying the equivalent of "incel represent!"

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DAITENGU on Sat Sep 17 09:57:00 2022
    It's possible "incel" was coined by someone else, but they referred to themsel
    s as "involuntarily celibate" since the 90s. I remember running into a group
    f them on IRC at one point, back when I was in high school, so that must have en '93-94 or so (some friends and I took over their IRC channel for a time. it
    as hilarious).

    I could see younger people calling themselves that.


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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 16:02:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so
    guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl
    and impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Interestingly enough, your clarification made you sound like *more* of an incel, not less. The classic incel believe that they are "involuntarily celibate" but are owed sex, whether it's just for being alive, or for
    having the bad luck to be short or not attractive. They go hand in had with
    the "nice guy," who believe they are owed sex because they do things like
    open doors for women, pay women compliments, do things for women, pretend
    to be a woman's friend. They're the kind who whine about the "friend zone"
    too.

    Anyway, you're reduction of human romantic relationships to a "simple" financial transaction is so close to part of the incel world that it's difficult to see the difference.


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "I doubt any of us will get out of here alive." "You should never ever doubt
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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Moondog on Mon Sep 19 16:48:00 2022
    Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

    It's worse when you get in your 40's and 50's. One would imagine an
    older woman would be more confident, less crazy, and more independent.

    Hey now, I'm a 52 year old woman!

    That is not the case. There's nothing like a divorcee that is in a
    hurry to move in with you because she's temporarily living back home
    with her parents or a grandparent, and feels uncomfortable bringing a

    Is it possible you are painting all women by one particular woman?



    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "A new body is like a new house: it takes a little bit of time to settle in.
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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 16:58:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I honestly don't know how the idea that if you don't pour resources
    into things you won't get crap done can be tagged as incel, then.

    Because you are equating relationships to financial transactions, and you
    sound like you are saying that you somehow earn the interest of a potential romantic interest thruogh the use of money.

    Or is that not what you were saying?


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "Look, you brought her here, and that means that you're giving her the shot.
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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 17:35:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to esc <=-

    The number of times I have had a girl make an advance on me is far
    smaller than the number of girls I have made an advancement on.

    Y'know, it could just be that you haven't met any girls that were
    interested enough to make an advance on you.

    :)

    I am not discounting your assertion that men are more likely to make
    initial contact, but I also think that it isn't true. We women do things
    like try to strike up conversations, maybe point out common interests ("I
    love that book you've got there, it was so good I read it twice"). Communication is what's important, and you don't have to spend money to communicate with a woman! If one of us likes you, meeting up in a park and chatting for a couple hours makes for a fantastic date.

    I really think you're over-thinking things, Mr. Sir.

    My friends have a similar experience.

    Of that I have absolutely no doubt.


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... Sheriff Lucas Buck: You think you're the only woman I have to service tonigh
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 20 13:32:07 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 2022 04:02 pm

    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl and impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Interestingly enough, your clarification made you sound like *more* of an incel, not less. The classic incel believe that they are "involuntarily celibate" but are owed sex, whether it's just for being alive, or for
    having the bad luck to be short or not attractive. They go hand in had with the "nice guy," who believe they are owed sex because they do things like open doors for women, pay women compliments, do things for women, pretend
    to be a woman's friend. They're the kind who whine about the "friend zone" too.

    Anyway, you're reduction of human romantic relationships to a "simple" financial transaction is so close to part of the incel world that it's difficult to see the difference.


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "I doubt any of us will get out of here alive." "You should never ever doubt
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet -=[ conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS ]=-

    I suspect you are trying to lump me in with a group I have no affiliation with, so I
    will make it easy for you:

    People sucks and uses other people as assets.

    Women are people. Therefore they suck and use other people as assets. Just as men do.
    Big surprise.

    We humans are very good at convincing ourselves we are not using others as assets, and
    that we do stuff for love and whatever, but in the end of the day partnetships are ALL
    about getting something in exchange of something or jointly pooling resources to
    achieve results.

    People keeps idealizing human-to-human relations and getting mad when you point this
    fact at them. Then they go on using other people up and casting them aside once no
    longer useful.

    If you check prior messages you will find I have been holding this view for long and
    no longer when it comes to romantic relation ships. In fact my bigger complaints
    regarding this effect come from business relationships and regular friendships.

    But whatever.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 20 13:38:46 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 2022 04:58 pm

    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I honestly don't know how the idea that if you don't pour resources into things you won't get crap done can be tagged as incel, then.

    Because you are equating relationships to financial transactions, and you sound like you are saying that you somehow earn the interest of a potential romantic interest thruogh the use of money.

    Or is that not what you were saying?


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "Look, you brought her here, and that means that you're giving her the shot.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet -=[ conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS ]=-

    You don't necessarily earn the interest of a romantic partner, but sure as hell you
    need to use resources in order to keep it.

    Resources need not be money. They can be time or whatever have you.

    If you don't do anything with your girlfriend at all, she becomes bored with you
    (understandably). However, taking your girlfriend out needs resoures. Even if my date
    plan consists in staying at home playing boardgames and RPGs, setting such date requires me to have the finantial stability to be able to afford losing an evening
    worth of work. Achieving that finantial stability takes resources.

    Dennying what I say is akin to dennying that you can keep somebody's romantic interest
    without investing time and effort in the relationship. If that is your position then I
    have a bridge to sell to you.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 20 13:40:53 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 2022 05:35 pm

    Arelor wrote to esc <=-

    The number of times I have had a girl make an advance on me is far smaller than the number of girls I have made an advancement on.

    Y'know, it could just be that you haven't met any girls that were
    interested enough to make an advance on you.

    :)

    I am not discounting your assertion that men are more likely to make
    initial contact, but I also think that it isn't true. We women do things like try to strike up conversations, maybe point out common interests ("I love that book you've got there, it was so good I read it twice"). Communication is what's important, and you don't have to spend money to communicate with a woman! If one of us likes you, meeting up in a park and chatting for a couple hours makes for a fantastic date.

    I really think you're over-thinking things, Mr. Sir.

    My friends have a similar experience.

    Of that I have absolutely no doubt.


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... Sheriff Lucas Buck: You think you're the only woman I have to service tonigh
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet -=[ conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS ]=-

    I am just not meeting people out of business scenarios, which suits me fine.

    I don't overthink. I observe.

    As said before, a cheap date in the park still uses up resources.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 20 13:52:32 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Mon Sep 19 2022 05:35 pm

    Y'know, it could just be that you haven't met any girls that were
    interested enough to make an advance on you.

    By the way, I don't deal with enough people to make for a substantial statistical
    pool, but there was an study somewhere that claimed 92 or 94% of women prefered to be
    approached and that the rest was the minority that would act on their own.

    The ones that advance themselves seem to be the "Live Dangerously and Die Young"
    variety, in my experience.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to bex on Tue Sep 20 17:12:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Moondog on Mon Sep 19 2022 04:48 pm

    Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

    It's worse when you get in your 40's and 50's. One would imagine an older woman would be more confident, less crazy, and more independent.

    Hey now, I'm a 52 year old woman!

    That is not the case. There's nothing like a divorcee that is in a hurry to move in with you because she's temporarily living back home with her parents or a grandparent, and feels uncomfortable bringing a

    Is it possible you are painting all women by one particular woman?



    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "A new body is like a new house: it takes a little bit of time to settle in.

    By no means am I painting with a wide brush. I knew several that were like this, but wouldn't call them being close to average or normal. My brother rents a room from me and right now he has a steady girlfriend. His previous two acted like they were in a hurry to move in and place their kids in the spare room we use as a workout room. When he'd tell them that is my call
    house and he can't make that call, they were pressuring him to split the rent and move somewhere else. That would be fine if this was decided over several months and they had time to see who they're getting involved with, but
    instead this was ridiculously fast.

    I know several women in their 40's and 50's who are mature, independent, do
    not play games and are in search of a relationship rather than a sucker they can wrap around their finger. Searching for a good match takes time, but
    there are some behaviors or other signs that tell you to look elsewhere. Guys
    are messed up, too. Some can be clingy, emotional wrecks needing constant affirmation and affection.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BEX on Tue Sep 20 16:57:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    It sucks specially if you are a guy because society is engineered so guys make the upfront investment: we are supposed to look for a girl
    and impress her, and that takes resources. It is that simple.

    Anyway, you're reduction of human romantic relationships to a "simple" financial transaction is so close to part of the incel world that it's difficult to see the difference.

    I did not read it that way. I have not ever met any women who are
    impressed by someone who cannot afford to go out anywhere and do things
    with them, unless all they are looking for is "Netflix and chill." Even if
    the woman is set on paying her own way, she wants someone who can afford to
    go places with her. So it is an upfront investment (in something that
    might not work) and that does take resources.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 20 19:36:07 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to bex on Tue Sep 20 2022 01:40 pm

    I am not discounting your assertion that men are more likely to make initial contact, but I also think that it isn't true. We women do things like try to strike up conversations, maybe point out common interests ("I love that book you've got there, it was so good I read it twice"). Communication is what's important, and you don't have to spend money to communicate with a woman! If one of us likes you, meeting up in a park and
    chatting for a couple hours makes for a fantastic date.

    BTW, starting a conversation is not making a move. Far from it.

    Getting close to a guy and telling him that you like that book he is reading is an
    attempt at getting him to make a move. When I want a girl I knock on her door and ask
    her out. Starting a random conversation with a man and expecting him to ask you out is
    to asking him out what phoning the police because you want them to shoot a drug dealer
    is to shooting a drug dealer down.

    I would argue that the ones having problems with communication are not usually the
    dudes. When a dude wants something with a girl, and the girl is not interested, the
    guy rarely gets a straight answer. It is always an "I am busy" or "Maybe next week" or
    some other cover-up. Granted, most guys will pick this up, but this does not count as
    good communication. At all.

    Damn, then some autistic dude takes "I am too busy to date you this week" at face
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  • From Hustler@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Tue Sep 20 23:19:24 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Arelor to bex on Tue Sep 20 2022 07:36 pm

    I would argue that the ones having problems with communication are not usually the dudes.
    When a dude wants something with a girl, and the girl is not interested, the guy rarely
    gets
    a straight answer. It is always an "I am busy" or "Maybe next week" or some other
    cover-up.
    Granted, most guys will pick this up, but this does not count as good communication. At
    all.

    Man, it all sounds way to exhausting to me!

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to bex on Wed Sep 21 16:52:25 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to MRO on Wed Sep 21 2022 09:49 am

    "That woman's group on Facebook is just as bad" in no way makes incels less horrible than they are. Incels are a sad, pathetic, extremely frightening group of mysoginists whose anger is almost always close to the boiling point and who forever see women as "females" who are both less than human an unworthy of being anything but walking vaginas.

    It reminds me of what I've read of the Men Going Their Own Way movement and/or the Red Pill movement.

    Nightfox

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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Wed Sep 21 22:46:00 2022
    Arelor said to bex: <=-

    By the way, I don't deal with enough people to make for a substantial statistical pool, but there was an study somewhere that claimed 92 or
    94% of women prefered to be approached and that the rest was the
    minority that would act on their own.

    What study was that? Link to it? That sounds more like a poll than a
    study, and it sounds more like a poll from a magazine or on social media
    than any kind of legitimate poll. How could there be anything that could encompass all women? What do you consider a typical woman? You have to
    start breaking things down along demographic categories. I can guarantee
    you that the number of women between 18-24 and 50-54 will have VASTLY
    different answers about who should make initial contact.

    Age ranges are just one category though. In the 50-54 age range, women who
    live in an urban area (like me) will have a different view than
    women in a rural area. For urbanites, those that have a job and children
    will have a different view than those who are career-focused and those who aren't working.

    The ones that advance themselves seem to be the "Live Dangerously and
    Die Young" variety, *IN MY EXPERIENCE.*

    I added even more emphasis to your most important sentence there, my
    friend. You seem to both be admitting that you are only discussing what
    you've experienced while still trying to extrapolate how things work for
    every other person in the world from your experiences. Are you familiar
    with the cave allegory?

    -- Bex <3

    * Q-Blue 2.4 *

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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Thu Sep 22 15:21:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    First off, lemme say that my experiences and reactions are my own, and
    other women might have very different ones. I mentioned in a previous post
    that there's no such thing as a "typical woman" after all. (:

    BTW, starting a conversation is not making a move. Far from it.

    So.... to make a move, you are just going to come up to someone and say something like "Hi, you don't know me, but I wanted to see if you wanted to
    go on a date with me"? Because I've gotta tell you, that would generate an immediate "no thanks". Women want to spend some time talking, getting to
    know a person so they can see if there's shared interest there.

    Getting close to a guy and telling him that you like that book he is reading is an attempt at getting him to make a move. When I want a girl

    No, it's a way of saying "hi" and learning a little about the person. It's making a human connection. And it's a way to see if there's any hint of interest back my way.

    phoning the police because you want them to shoot a drug dealer is to shooting a drug dealer down.

    Your metaphor is so out there that I won't even acknowledge it, but this
    part made me want to ask: Isn't a person supposed to call the police and
    say "I think that person is a drug dealer, because they are always doing <insert behavior>" instead of thinking "I think that person is a drug
    dealer" and murdering them?

    You made me giggle, thank you!

    usually the dudes. When a dude wants something with a girl, and the
    girl is not interested, the guy rarely gets a straight answer. It is always an "I am busy" or "Maybe next week" or some other cover-up.

    I think there are two main reasons for this:

    1) An innate feeling of not wanting to hurt someone's feelings.
    2) The possibility of being verbally or physically assaulted after
    rejecting someone. To see how common people lashing out after being
    rejected is, spend a few minutes in r/niceguys, r/creepyPMs, etc


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Sun Sep 25 06:38:42 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Wed Sep 21 2022 10:46 pm

    By the way, I don't deal with enough people to make for a substantial statistical pool, but there was an study somewhere that claimed 92 or 94% of women prefered to be approached and that the rest was the minority that would act on their own.

    What study was that? Link to it? That sounds more like a poll than a
    study, and it sounds more like a poll from a magazine or on social media

    I don't think it is available online. There was a presentation of it at the Western Psychological Associations meeting in 2011 I think.

    For something more informal, you have this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/ why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Sun Sep 25 06:41:52 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Wed Sep 21 2022 10:46 pm

    I added even more emphasis to your most important sentence there, my
    friend. You seem to both be admitting that you are only discussing what you've experienced while still trying to extrapolate how things work for every other person in the world from your experiences. Are you familiar
    with the cave allegory?

    Actually it is the other way around. I hear what other people says, read what they write, and then compare it with my own experience and see it adds up.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Sun Sep 25 06:57:05 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Thu Sep 22 2022 03:21 pm

    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    First off, lemme say that my experiences and reactions are my own, and
    other women might have very different ones. I mentioned in a previous post that there's no such thing as a "typical woman" after all. (:

    BTW, starting a conversation is not making a move. Far from it.

    So.... to make a move, you are just going to come up to someone and say something like "Hi, you don't know me, but I wanted to see if you wanted to go on a date with me"? Because I've gotta tell you, that would generate an immediate "no thanks". Women want to spend some time talking, getting to know a person so they can see if there's shared interest there.

    Getting close to a guy and telling him that you like that book he is reading is an attempt at getting him to make a move. When I want a girl

    No, it's a way of saying "hi" and learning a little about the person. It's making a human connection. And it's a way to see if there's any hint of interest back my way.

    phoning the police because you want them to shoot a drug dealer is to shooting a drug dealer down.

    Your metaphor is so out there that I won't even acknowledge it, but this part made me want to ask: Isn't a person supposed to call the police and
    say "I think that person is a drug dealer, because they are always doing <insert behavior>" instead of thinking "I think that person is a drug dealer" and murdering them?

    You made me giggle, thank you!

    usually the dudes. When a dude wants something with a girl, and the girl is not interested, the guy rarely gets a straight answer. It is always an "I am busy" or "Maybe next week" or some other cover-up.

    I think there are two main reasons for this:

    1) An innate feeling of not wanting to hurt someone's feelings.
    2) The possibility of being verbally or physically assaulted after
    rejecting someone. To see how common people lashing out after being
    rejected is, spend a few minutes in r/niceguys, r/creepyPMs, etc


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    I bet some people can pop up out of the blue in front of a girl and ask her out right away, and get a result. I don't think it is common either. That is absolutely not what I am talking about. For the record: the experiment has been done informally with both men to women and women to men, the experiments are recorded, and results are hillarious.

    No, what I am talking about is what the Psychology today article I have just mentioned describes as Risky Initiatives. Women's way of grabbing a man is trying to give cues that they are available, but they don't take any risk or communicate their intentions outright. They act like one of my mares: she is afraid her barn companion will punish her if she asks me for pats, so what she does instead is keeping her distance and following me from afar, with the hope that I will notice she is there and may want to walk up to her and pet her. (Meanwhile, when the other ones wants pats, she outright walks towards me and kisses my face all over).

    BTW I both oppose the war on drugs and think that begging the administration to do something is just a way of getting something done, rejecting the responsibility that comes from the action. Just like trying to show you are available for dating without making an explicit move towards that goal: if it does not work out, you can avoid any backslash because you were not exposed to it to begin with.


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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Nightfox on Fri Sep 23 15:01:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to bex <=-

    less horrible than they are. Incels are a sad, pathetic, extremely frightening group of mysoginists whose anger is almost always close to the boiling point and who forever see women as "females" who are both less than human an unworthy of being anything but walking vaginas.

    It reminds me of what I've read of the Men Going Their Own Way movement and/or the Red Pill movement.

    :O There are more groups like that? *shudder*


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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Mon Sep 26 08:30:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    What study was that? Link to it? That sounds more like a poll than a
    study, and it sounds more like a poll from a magazine or on social media

    I don't think it is available online. There was a presentation of it at the Western Psychological Associations meeting in 2011 I think.

    For something more informal, you have this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/ 201104/
    why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates

    Thanks! That was an interesting read. The one question I would have about
    it would be their sample - college-aged women they found on campus - but
    the points that Mills made are thought provoking.


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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Mon Sep 26 08:35:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    take any risk or communicate their intentions outright. They act like
    one of my mares: she is afraid her barn companion will punish her if
    she asks me for pats, so what she does instead is keeping her distance

    :O

    You didn't really just write that, did you? Comparing - in any way, metaphorically, philosophically, trolling - women to mares?

    Sir, I will *not* continue a conversation after that statement.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Tue Sep 27 12:23:10 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Mon Sep 26 2022 08:35 am

    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    take any risk or communicate their intentions outright. They act like one of my mares: she is afraid her barn companion will punish her if she asks me for pats, so what she does instead is keeping her distance

    :O

    You didn't really just write that, did you? Comparing - in any way, metaphorically, philosophically, trolling - women to mares?

    Sir, I will *not* continue a conversation after that statement.


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

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    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting to
    hang around. Not to mention safer.


    Not to mention more cute and cuddly.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Tue Sep 27 19:09:00 2022
    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting to hang around. Not to mention safer.


    Not to mention more cute and cuddly.

    Not real sure where the comparison to horses is offensive (at least, in
    this case), either. Maybe that is because I live in Kentucky where many
    people (male and female) regard their horses much more highly than their
    fellow humans.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'll have one brain on drugs with bacon, toast and juice.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dumas Walker on Tue Sep 27 21:15:00 2022
    Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting to hang around. Not to mention safer.

    Not to mention more cute and cuddly.

    Not real sure where the comparison to horses is offensive (at
    least, in this case), either. Maybe that is because I live in
    Kentucky where many people (male and female) regard their horses
    much more highly than their fellow humans.

    It isn't offensive to most, just to the "woke" types.

    I regard my dogs much more highly than most humans. ;-)



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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Tue Sep 27 21:09:00 2022
    I regard my dogs much more highly than most humans. ;-)

    As do I! Well, in general, dogs are better than people IMO. And I'm woke as a mfer.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to esc on Wed Sep 28 08:21:00 2022
    esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I regard my dogs much more highly than most humans. ;-)

    As do I! Well, in general, dogs are better than people IMO.

    No doubt about that!

    And I'm woke as a mfer.

    Well, you are in Kalifornia, so that's to be expected. :-)

    But... my comment before (which you snipped for some reason), regarding
    "woke" was how easily people like that are offended. It had nothing to
    do with the value of dogs vs humans.

    Excessive context snipping really doesn't help the flow of
    communication.



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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Wed Sep 28 09:09:00 2022
    Well, you are in Kalifornia, so that's to be expected. :-)

    Ha! Yeah, it's funny, we are on a road trip and as soon as you get away from the populated areas, California has a completely different feel. I think people forget how big this state is and how diverse of a population that can make.

    But... my comment before (which you snipped for some reason), regarding "woke" was how easily people like that are offended. It had nothing to do with the value of dogs vs humans.

    I know, I was trying to be funny ;)

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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to Arelor on Thu Sep 29 10:17:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting
    to hang around. Not to mention safer.

    Damn, my twit list is filling up today...

    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to esc on Thu Sep 29 06:58:00 2022
    esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Ha! Yeah, it's funny, we are on a road trip and as soon as you get away from the populated areas, California has a completely different feel. I think people forget how big this state is and how diverse of a
    population that can make.

    I've seen swastikas on front doors, confederate flags, TRUMP 2024 banners, people protesting vaccines on overpasses, people in trucks acting like
    idiots towards Prius drivers. and trucks blocking Tesla charging stations.

    You're right, you don't have to go far.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Fri Sep 30 09:55:27 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: bex to Arelor on Thu Sep 29 2022 10:17 am

    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting to hang around. Not to mention safer.

    Damn, my twit list is filling up today...


    No horse has ever added somebody to a BBS Twit filter because that person said something the horse didn't want to hear.

    Point for the horses.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Arelor on Fri Sep 30 14:17:00 2022
    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    Arelor wrote to bex <=-

    If women were more like horses, they would be so much more interesting to hang around. Not to mention safer.

    Damn, my twit list is filling up today...

    No horse has ever added somebody to a BBS Twit filter because
    that person said something the horse didn't want to hear.

    Point for the horses.

    I'd call it: Game, Set, and Match to the horses.



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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Fri Sep 30 16:40:00 2022
    I've seen swastikas on front doors, confederate flags, TRUMP 2024 banners, people protesting vaccines on overpasses, people in trucks acting like
    idiots towards Prius drivers. and trucks blocking Tesla charging stations.

    You're right, you don't have to go far.

    "They" tell us that this kind of things only happens in "the South" but I
    have never seen any of those things aside from Confederate flags (which I
    have not seen lately) and Trump banners. I have not seen anything else
    like the rest of those things.

    So maybe when they say "the South" they are confused and mean California?


    * SLMR 2.1a * I before E except after C, huh? Weird.....

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Fri Sep 30 16:41:00 2022
    Damn, my twit list is filling up today...

    No horse has ever added somebody to a BBS Twit filter because that person said
    something the horse didn't want to hear.

    Point for the horses.

    Yes. I'd not blame her if you'd cursed her or something, but you didn't so
    I thought it was a little harsh.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Stewardess trainee: "Where does THIS door gooooooooooo...

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Sun Oct 2 10:37:00 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Fri Sep 30 2022 04:40 pm

    I've seen swastikas on front doors, confederate flags, TRUMP 2024 banners, people protesting vaccines on overpasses, people in trucks acting like idiots towards Prius drivers. and trucks blocking Tesla charging stations.

    You're right, you don't have to go far.

    "They" tell us that this kind of things only happens in "the South" but I have never seen any of those things aside from Confederate flags (which I have not seen lately) and Trump banners. I have not seen anything else
    like the rest of those things.

    So maybe when they say "the South" they are confused and mean California?


    * SLMR 2.1a * I before E except after C, huh? Weird.....


    You can find those behaviors anywhere in varying degrees. In some places you don't have to look as hard.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Mon Oct 3 16:21:00 2022
    You can find those behaviors anywhere in varying degrees. In some places you don't have to look as hard.

    I agree on both counts. Having lived all my life in this area, I sometimes
    get tired of certain stereotypes.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Anything that can go wr ... #@^% Bus Error -- Core

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  • From bex@VERT/CONCHAOS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Oct 5 13:29:00 2022
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to esc <=-

    I've seen swastikas on front doors, confederate flags, TRUMP 2024
    banners, people protesting vaccines on overpasses, people in trucks
    acting like idiots towards Prius drivers. and trucks blocking Tesla charging stations.

    You're right, you don't have to go far.

    *sigh* It's even sadder because it is so true. :(


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 4 07:46:00 2022
    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    "They" tell us that this kind of things only happens in "the South" but
    I have never seen any of those things aside from Confederate flags
    (which I have not seen lately) and Trump banners. I have not seen anything else like the rest of those things.

    So maybe when they say "the South" they are confused and mean
    California?

    Not sure who "they" are, but anyone who can interpret a presidential
    election results map filtered down to county could tell you that it's not a state/state, it's urban/rural.

    Overlay a presidential election map on top of a satellite photo of the US at night some time. Where there's light, they vote Democrat.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Oct 6 19:00:06 2022
    So maybe when they say "the South" they are confused and mean California?

    Not sure who "they" are, but anyone who can interpret a presidential election results map filtered down to county could tell you that it's not a state/state, it's urban/rural.

    Overlay a presidential election map on top of a satellite photo of the US at night some time. Where there's light, they vote Democrat.


    Yes, they do.

    Trump-supporting counties are doing better recovering jobs than those that voted for Biden

    Source: CBS NEWS

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/job-growth-in-trump-voting-counties-in-the-bid en-economy/?fbclid=IwAR0pXdoOomWuW9xBHCG32HjviKTLsE-nw8o7YJNpINGINqvfJ2IbgC91RP A#app

    https://tinyurl.com/ypmwvpzy

    "Counties around the U.S. where a majority of voters supported former President Donald Trump in the 2020 election are regaining their lost jobs under President Joe Biden more quickly than counties that voted in favor of the current president, according to a new analysis of labor data.

    "Through the end of the first quarter, Trump-supporting counties have regained nearly all the jobs they lost when the pandemic first slammed the economy in March of 2020, with employment just 0.3%, or 124,000 jobs, short of where it was prior to the COVID-19 crisis, the Economic Innovation Group found. Counties where a majority of residents voted for Biden had a deficit of 1.7 million jobs 1.8% short of pre-pandemic levels by the end of the first quarter of
    2022."

    They go on to draw the conclusion that this is because blue areas have higher populations and therefore lost more jobs which, of course, ignores that they are comparing percentages of lost jobs recovered and not total populations.

    I am guessing it is more likely state and local policies in these red voting areas that are helping in their faster recovery.
    #

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Fri Oct 7 06:28:00 2022
    Dumas Walker wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Trump-supporting counties are doing better recovering jobs than those
    that voted for Biden

    Source: CBS NEWS

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/job-growth-in-trump-voting-counties-in- the-bid en-economy/?fbclid=IwAR0pXdoOomWuW9xBHCG32HjviKTLsE-nw8o7YJNpINGINqvfJ2I bgC91RP
    A#app

    They go on to draw the conclusion that this is because blue areas have higher populations and therefore lost more jobs which, of course,
    ignores that they are comparing percentages of lost jobs recovered and
    not total populations.

    I am guessing it is more likely state and local policies in these red voting areas that are helping in their faster recovery.


    They made a pretty good case for population density and a slower recovery,
    not local policies. On a state level, many red states receive more from the federal government than they pay out, so there could be an argument that
    those states benefit more than the blue states, which could skews recovery numbers.




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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Oct 11 16:26:51 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 04 2022 07:46 am

    Not sure who "they" are, but anyone who can interpret a presidential election results map filtered down to county could tell you that it's not a state/state, it's urban/rural.

    Overlay a presidential election map on top of a satellite photo of the US at night some time. Where there's light, they vote Democrat.


    It would not surprise me. Big population centers tend to dilute responsibility so
    people takes responsibility as a group instead of individually.

    Case point: my boss sent me as a representative to a house owners association's meeting to discuss some budgets and other trivialities. I observed that the members of
    the group were very liberal with the use of money since it was not theirs, but the
    asociation's. A member would point at an issue that needed fixing, everybody would
    agree the issue needed fixing, and then somebody would propose a budget allocation for
    the problem. So far, so good. The concern I got from the meeting is that people was
    voting the budget allocations without asking how the money was going to be _used_ or
    what the utimate goals were.

    For example, if somebody pointed out that there was not enough money in the bank to
    purchase fuel, he would recommend to rise the membership's fee by ten EUR. Then everybody would agree without asking what the target was (ie. how much money do we
    expect to have in the bank account and for buying when, and how quickly did we need to
    raise the funds).

    Basically, they were throwing money into a pot and expecting the administrator to make
    the most of it so they don't have to worry, which is the socialist way.

    It is easy to make the comparison when you live in a unifamiliar house in which you
    need to count every penny and allocate every single dollar wisely, because if you lose
    control of the funds you freeze in winter. Urbanites throw money at the administrator
    and if things go wrong they blame a third party, meanwhile a rural redneck has to
    manage his own house himself and acknowledge that any failure at managing the funds is
    his mistake.

    It dawned on me some weeks ago The differences at managing one's life are so fundamental as to be unreconciliable.

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  • From Mikek@VERT/SNOCONE to esc on Fri Oct 28 19:43:06 2022
    Re: Re: Owning vs Ride Share
    By: esc to MRO on Mon Sep 12 2022 18:59:00


    Mike

    Sysop SNOCONE BBS
    Retro computing related stuff mostly
    Snohomish, WA

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