• New BBS history book

    From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to All on Tue May 10 11:30:00 2022
    Hi DOVE-Netters!

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World:
    A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    I also printed up a pile of stickers with modems and ASCII art and I want to give them away to folks who are keeping the BBS world running in 2022. If
    you'd like a few FREE stickers, send me a mailing address via DOVE netmail or internet e-mail at ked5d@virginia.edu. I promise to keep it confidential.

    From 300 baud to infinite!
    Kevin


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 17:12:49 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    Sounds great, looking forward to it!

    ---
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 21:39:00 2022
    Kevin Driscoll wrote to All <=-

    Hi DOVE-Netters!

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am
    publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online
    communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social
    Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    I also printed up a pile of stickers with modems and ASCII art
    and I want to give them away to folks who are keeping the BBS
    world running in 2022. If you'd like a few FREE stickers, send me
    a mailing address via DOVE netmail or internet e-mail at ked5d@virginia.edu. I promise to keep it confidential.

    From 300 baud to infinite!
    Kevin

    Very cool, email sent! Thanks!



    ... Windows 3.1 - From the people who brought you EDLIN.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 22:46:21 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    I've been chomping at the bit here waiting for the physical book's release. Can't wait to read it.

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    Synchronet Guardian of Forever | guardian.synchro.net | St. Louis, MO
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 22:05:00 2022
    Hello Kevin!

    ** On Tuesday 10.05.22 - 11:30, you wrote to All:

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am
    publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online
    communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of
    Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    Congratulations making it a Yale University Press publication.
    But at $28USD ($37.99CDN) for the hardcover.. it's a bit rich
    for me. ;)

    How 'bout an excerpt or two?

    BTW.. Are you the same Kevin Driscoll who is the author and
    illustrator of "Moony Moon Shines at Noon!" ?
    --

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Ogg on Wed May 11 08:11:24 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 2022 10:05 pm

    Congratulations making it a Yale University Press publication.
    But at $28USD ($37.99CDN) for the hardcover.. it's a bit rich
    for me. ;)
    How 'bout an excerpt or two?

    You can see portions of the book as a preview on Google Books: https://books.google.com/books?id=bYxhEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA001

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    Synchronet Guardian of Forever | guardian.synchro.net | St. Louis, MO
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Kevin Driscoll on Wed May 11 08:50:00 2022
    Kevin Driscoll wrote to All <=-

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The
    Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    I think I saw that on reddit too. I already pre-ordered my copy from Amazon. Hopefully it lives up to the hype. You'll find out if it doesn't. 8)


    ... You have two choices for dinner: Take it or Leave it.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Diamond Dave@VERT/DMINE to Kevin Driscoll on Wed May 11 18:47:05 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Hi DOVE-Netters!

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world


    I think I saw you post something on the /r/bbs sub-reddit. I may buy a Kindle copy.

    *** Diamond Dave ***

    ---
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to Ogg on Thu May 12 12:42:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 2022 10:05 pm

    How 'bout an excerpt or two?

    Absolutely. I'm working on it now. Maybe I can slice out a piece in plain ol' ASCII...

    BTW.. Are you the same Kevin Driscoll who is the author and
    illustrator of "Moony Moon Shines at Noon!" ?

    Nope. But I love that title! Sadly, I'm also not the real estate broker, ventriloquist, or blues musician. :)

    Kevin


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Kevin Driscoll on Sun May 15 21:20:28 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    I also printed up a pile of stickers with modems and ASCII art and I want to give them away to folks who are keeping the BBS world running in 2022. If you'd like a few FREE stickers, send me a mailing address via DOVE netmail or internet e-mail at ked5d@virginia.edu. I promise to keep it confidential.

    I bet you're trying to find addressed to SWAT.

    ... BBSing: a method to triple your phone bill.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Crushed@VERT/T0KERZ to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 17 17:22:33 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    Well look what arrived in my mailbox today! Can't wait to dig into it :)

    https://i.imgur.com/j4hPIv0.jpg

    ---
    Synchronet t0kerZ hUt
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Wed May 11 04:18:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 2022 10:05 pm


    How 'bout an excerpt or two?


    you can see it on google
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Wed May 18 10:37:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to Ogg on Wed May 11 2022 04:18 am

    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 10 2022 10:05 pm


    How 'bout an excerpt or two?


    you can see it on google

    Yeah! There's also an excerpt up on the web here: https://www.wired.com/story/internet-origin-story-bbs/

    Kevin


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to Crushed on Wed May 18 10:41:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Crushed to Kevin Driscoll on Tue May 17 2022 05:22 pm

    Well look what arrived in my mailbox today! Can't wait to dig into it :)

    https://i.imgur.com/j4hPIv0.jpg

    Ah! Thank you for posting. I love the fullscreen terminal in the background-- ALT+ENTER FOR LIFE!

    Kevin

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Kevin Driscoll on Fri May 20 15:11:10 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to Crushed on Wed May 18 2022 10:41 am

    Ah! Thank you for posting. I love the fullscreen terminal in the background-- ALT+ENTER FOR LIFE!

    Mine showed up a couple days ago too. I'll pop 'er open once I get some spare time. Maybe this weekend!

    DaiTengu

    ... I must follow them. I am their leader.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From knightwise@VERT/BEERS20 to Gamgee on Thu Jun 9 10:34:00 2022
    Hi Kevin,

    I found out about your book on the BBS Subreddit and was fascinated. It's a very well written and insightfull look into the history of the BBS and the
    eve of the pre-internet era. I still see the value and viability of decentralised systems to exchange information, especially in todays world of mega corportations running platforms that sometimes seem to outgrow or outshadow the internet itself

    Congratulations on a well written book
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to knightwise on Thu Jun 9 19:18:00 2022
    knightwise wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Hi Kevin,

    I found out about your book on the BBS Subreddit and was
    fascinated. It's a very well written and insightfull look into
    the history of the BBS and the eve of the pre-internet era. I
    still see the value and viability of decentralised systems to
    exchange information, especially in todays world of mega
    corportations running platforms that sometimes seem to outgrow or outshadow the internet itself

    Congratulations on a well written book

    You wrote your message above to me, but I'm not Kevin. Hopefully he
    sees your post here.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From knightwise@VERT/BEERS20 to Gamgee on Thu Jun 9 22:21:00 2022
    Hey Gamgee,

    Sorry bout that. I'm still new at the whole BBS thing and trying to find my bearings on how to navigate and reply.

    Did you get a chance to read kevins book ? What did you think of it ?

    Knightwise
    Host of the knightwise.com podcast
    www.knightwise.com

    ... Dead Finks Don't Talk -ENO
  • From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to knightwise on Mon Jun 13 15:42:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: knightwise to Gamgee on Thu Jun 09 2022 10:34 am

    Hi Kevin,

    I found out about your book on the BBS Subreddit and was fascinated. It's a very well written and insightfull look into the history of the BBS and the eve of the pre-internet era. I still see the value and viability of decentralised systems to exchange information, especially in todays world of mega corportations running platforms that sometimes seem to outgrow or outshadow the internet itself

    Congratulations on a well written book

    Thanks! I am also interested in decentralization and "post-platform"
    networks. BBSs seem like an important part of that conversation, both as working models and inspiration for future projects.

    Kevin

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From knightwise@VERT/BEERS20 to Kevin Driscoll on Tue Jun 14 21:37:00 2022
    I was wondering what, seeing how you looked back into history, your thoughts are on the future of the net ? How do you see the internet evolve over the next 10 years. Will the internet break up because of legislation (China/US/Eu) or will the big platforms start to slug it out ? What are the chances we will to back to a decentralised self-hosted net ? Curious to hear what your take is on this.

    Knightwise
    Host of the knightwise.com podcast
    www.knightwise.com

    ... Format C:? N Formatting drive C:
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to knightwise on Wed Jun 15 06:02:12 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: knightwise to Kevin Driscoll on Tue Jun 14 2022 09:37 pm

    I was wondering what, seeing how you looked back into history, your thoughts are on
    s start to slug it out ? What are the chances we will to back to a decentralised se

    Knightwise
    Host of the knightwise.com podcast
    www.knightwise.com

    ... Format C:? N Formatting drive C:

    The net is gonna suck.

    It is going to be policed so heavily that nothing will be publisheable unless id
    adjusts to the party line of the countries in which such content is available. You
    can already see a soft censorship of sorts nowadays because search engines in certain
    countries outright remove pages deemed unnacpetable from their results. You try searching for something using Google from the US and may not find it, but you may find
    it using Yandex, which in turn will be censoring different sites.

    The trend is for big corporations to act as international hubs which make different
    content available to different countries. For example, LikdedIn operates in China but
    people registered as "Bad Chinesse" by the Chinesse Communist Government will be
    censored in China. There was a nice article in Linux Magazine about the subject.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From knightwise@VERT/BEERS20 to Arelor on Wed Jun 15 09:24:00 2022
    Yep. I think we are looking at polarisation of content over different platforms and legislation pushing on those platforms to align the content with whatever the governement party line is.

    The deconstruction of the individuals privacy, and the plaformisation (is that a word) of the content where opinions are voiced and information is stored is a dangerous recipe for totalitarian power.

    We go beyond a digital panopticon where everything can be observed, we will also have the technology to alter our perception of the world around us based on what the algorithm decides on.

    Not to preach to the choir but, decentralized servers, the return of some form of anonymity through obscurity might be all that can empower the individual.

    Although the promise of silicon valley to liberate the individual from the power of the "man" .. might just deliver the technology for to suppress societies ....

    Dark .. I know

    Knightwise
    Host of the knightwise.com podcast
    www.knightwise.com

    ... Hard disk not ready!
  • From Ford Prefect@VERT/FORTY2 to knightwise on Thu Jun 16 12:54:50 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: knightwise to Kevin Driscoll on Tue Jun 14 2022 09:37 pm

    I was wondering what, seeing how you looked back into history, your thoughts are on the future of the net ? How do you see the internet evolve over the next 10 years. Will the internet break up because of legislation (China/US/Eu) or will the big platforms start to slug it out ? What are the chances we will to back to a decentralised self-hosted net ? Curious to hear what your take is on this.

    Seeing how the internet has evolved since its inception, changes are to be expected. Taking a step back and looking at the internet of the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and 2010s, you can readily see what's changed, what's important, and what isn't. What we used in the 80s, simple e-mail communication, file transfers, and the like, is now replaced with streaming services, social media, and always available news and information.

    But, will it break? I feel that the internet of today is not sustainable. There are too many governments and localities trying to police what should be the free exchange of information, ideas, and content. When BBSes were the "social media" purveyors, information was localized and only with the help of FidoNet, RIME, and even IRC, local informed global. With the likes of Comcast, CenturyLink, AT&T, and others having the ability to block content from going over their lines, this simply has to stop.

    Net neutrality must be enforced, not just at a country level, but throughout the entire planet. When you have countries like Russia, China, and even the US, trying to police what can and cannot be placed on the Internet, the Internet is no longer a free resource for information. Yes, the "Tide Pod" crowd needs to start using their brains, but at the end of the day, this is the same as the idiots who read "The Anarchists Cookbook", built a small pipebomb, and blew their legs off in the 80s. It is what it is.

    Ultimately, until we remove the hyper-religious right, the hyper-liberal left, and focus on simply being neutral, nothing will change for the better. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, complaining about this and that, and hope that one day our elected officials will get their heads out of their asses.

    Brian Klauss <-> Ford Prefect
    42bytes a Synchronet BBS =========> 42bytes.net

    ---
    Synchronet 42bytes - 42bytes.net - Don't Panic!
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ford Prefect on Thu Jun 16 16:12:50 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ford Prefect to knightwise on Thu Jun 16 2022 12:54 pm

    Internet is no longer a free resource for information. Yes, the "Tide Pod" crowd needs to start using their brains, but at the end of the day, this is the same as the idiots who read "The Anarchists Cookbook", built a small pipebomb, and blew their legs off in the 80s. It is what it is.

    Ultimately, until we remove the hyper-religious right, the hyper-liberal left, and focus on simply being neutral, nothing will change for the better. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, complaining about this and that, and hope that one day our elected officials will get their heads out of their asses.


    there's no way to fix it and be balanced. it will always shift back and forth with society.

    companies take control because we let them. maybe in some ways what china is doing is better because at least they have some control over it.
    when there was rampant piracy with yunpan360 they were able to stop it. they have alternatives to what we use on our half of the internet as well.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Kevin Driscoll@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Fri Jun 17 11:04:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to Ford Prefect on Thu Jun 16 2022 04:12 pm

    there's no way to fix it and be balanced. it will always shift back and fort

    It's hard to think about fixing the internet because "the internet" is so
    many different things. It's the default infrastructure for nearly every media or telecom service I can think of: telephony, television, libraries, schools, emergency services, weather reports, pizza delivery, etc.

    When I think about surveillance and censorship, I try to remember that the costs will be borne by people who are already disadvantaged in other ways. Those of us with resources and expertise will set up VPNs and adblockers and end-to-end encryption. But most people won't.

    I'm curious about networks that don't depend on 24/7 high bandwidth infrastructure. Like little LoRA nets or stuff like secure scuttlebutt.

    Kevin

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Djatropine@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Fri Jun 17 12:58:40 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to Ford Prefect on Thu Jun 16 2022 04:12 pm


    Who needs the Anarchist Cookbook when you have Mr. Wizard?

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Djatropine on Sat Jun 18 02:22:10 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Djatropine to MRO on Fri Jun 17 2022 12:58 pm

    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to Ford Prefect on Thu Jun 16 2022 04:12 pm



    Who needs the Anarchist Cookbook when you have Mr. Wizard?


    I know what i need is you to quote and to reply to the correct person.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Djatropine on Sat Jun 18 13:01:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Djatropine to MRO on Fri Jun 17 2022 12:58 pm

    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to Ford Prefect on Thu Jun 16 2022 04:12 pm


    Who needs the Anarchist Cookbook when you have Mr. Wizard?


    The Anarchist cookbook was a bunch of recipes to get yourself killed.
    Several imporved versions can be found online in text versions with recipes that are much safer


    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From CDP@VERT/DMINE to Kevin Driscoll on Sat Jun 18 17:57:29 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    Hi DOVE-Netters!

    Forgive me a few bytes of self-promotion. This month, I am publishing a new book about dial-up BBSs and early online communities titled "The Modem World A Prehistory of Social Media." Details here: https://modem.world

    Hi Kevin. Just bought the Kindle app version of this recently and am up to the chapter on file sharing. This is great history! I logged into boards and (mostly) online services back then such as CIS and Delphi so this is an eyeopener on some of the culture I actually missed out on.
    Really good read so far!
    -----------------------
    CDP
    - The Diamond Mine BBS
    -----------------------

    ---
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Ron Lauzon@VERT/SYNCNIX to Djatropine on Sun Jun 19 09:40:00 2022
    Djatropine wrote to MRO <=-

    Who needs the Anarchist Cookbook when you have Mr. Wizard?

    Or, in my case, a dad who taught 8th grade science.

    He taught me many things - mostly things I shouldn't do.

    There's a reason why, even though United Nuclear sells lithium metal by the sheet, I don't have any in my home.


    ... I like your approach, now let's see your departure
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Kevin Driscoll on Sat Jun 25 13:15:58 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to Ogg on Thu May 12 2022 12:42 pm

    Nope. But I love that title! Sadly, I'm also not the real estate broker, ventriloquist, or blues musician. :)

    Bummer. Ventriloquist's rock! :-)
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Rush quote #6:
    ... but most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be
    Norco, CA WX: 94.5F, 19.0% humidity, 9 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Sat Jun 25 18:02:21 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Digital Man to Kevin Driscoll on Sat Jun 25 2022 01:15 pm

    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to Ogg on Thu May 12 2022 12:42 pm

    Nope. But I love that title! Sadly, I'm also not the real estate broker, ventriloquist, or blues musician. :)

    Bummer. Ventriloquist's rock! :-)


    thank god it's a dying art.
    i can't believe jeff dunham is worth 140mil.

    that guy that can actually sing and "ventriloquize" terry fator is worth about 160mil.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Crushed@VERT/T0KERZ to Kevin Driscoll on Wed Jun 29 15:55:37 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to All on Tue May 10 2022 11:30 am

    I also printed up a pile of stickers with modems and ASCII art and I want to give them away to folks who are keeping the BBS world running in 2022. If you'd like a few FREE stickers, send me a mailing address via DOVE netmail or internet e-mail at ked5d@virginia.edu. I promise to keep it confidential.

    Got my stickerZ!!!

    Thanks again :)

    ---
    Synchronet t0kerZ hUt
  • From bex@VERT/AMIGAC to Ford Prefect on Sun Jul 3 16:30:00 2022
    Ford Prefect wrote to knightwise <=-

    be expected. Taking a step back and looking at the internet of the
    80s, 90s, 2000s, and 2010s, you can readily see what's changed, what's important, and what isn't. What we used in the 80s, simple e-mail communication, file transfers, and the like, is now replaced with

    Those were definitely the lifelines, though gopher and newsgroups enabled global communication and access to global information. There's an argument to be made that newsgroups and gopher led to the rise of the web, and once the web was accessible it became what most users thought of as "the internet".

    streaming services, social media, and always available news and information.

    I think that mobile devices very much influenced what the 'net has become. The first generation of 'net capable phones and PDAs started to show that the internet as it existed at the time did not work well for mobile devices. The release of more powerful phones led to people wanting to be able to get information specifically formatted/designed for small screens. Businesses and advertisers filled that want.

    But I digress...

    informed global. With the likes of Comcast, CenturyLink, AT&T, and
    others having the ability to block content from going over their lines,

    I mentioned how mobile devices completely changed what "the internet" means to Jane Smith because it ties in well to your excellent point. John Doe doesn't care about the actual internet, they just care about what they can consume. Mobile devices have reduced the need to seek out data - instead it has almost reverted us back to the days of PointCast, with news, information and entertainment being delivered to users without the user needing to do anything. The average user has no idea that there's so much more to the internet, and does not want to know.

    This is *very* much like the early '90s when both AOL and Prodigy were able to make their own walled gardens. Users who were drawn to those services didn't care about what was outside of the garden, they were content to consume the content available within the walls.

    Net neutrality must be enforced, not just at a country level, but throughout the entire planet. When you have countries like Russia,
    China, and even the US, trying to police what can and cannot be placed

    Should, but won't. :( There's no money in it for carriers, and politicians won't give up money from lobbyists just to be the targets of attack ads saying the politician "wants to take away your access to your favorite internet services". In the US, net neutrality is a pipe dream that will never happen.

    information. Yes, the "Tide Pod" crowd needs to start using their
    brains, but at the end of the day, this is the same as the idiots who
    read "The Anarchists Cookbook", built a small pipebomb, and blew their legs off in the 80s.

    Thank you for saying that! I think that you and I are solidly Generation X? I've seen too many of us GenX'ers and Baby Boomers talk about the "stupidity of the millenials" and GenZ'ers without realizing that we did things that people in our generation were just as "stupid", just in different ways. It's a cycle: what a generation does is awesome, then becomes nostalgic, then becomes a tool to use to force a gulf with the next generations.

    Ultimately, until we remove the hyper-religious right, the
    hyper-liberal left, and focus on simply being neutral, nothing will
    change for the better. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing,

    I'm going to assume then that you are a moderate or centrist, which is great. We need more and more of you in the world. I am very left of center, but nowhere near the hyper-liberal left. I have three children who are firmly in GenZ, and am impressed with this generations ability to not be polarized, but to use logic and compassion to look at the world.

    Our future is in good hands, I think. Assuming we survive the 2020s.

    But I digress again.




    --
    Brightening the BBS world since 1990
    - Bex <3



    --
    Brightening the BBS world since 1990
    - Bex <3

    ... We have engaged the Borg... Wedding Ceremony at 15:00!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 4,000+ files
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to bex on Mon Jul 4 09:44:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: bex to Ford Prefect on Sun Jul 03 2022 04:30 pm

    nowhere near the hyper-liberal left. I have three children who are firmly in GenZ, and am impressed with this generations ability to not be polarized, but
    to use logic and compassion to look at the world.

    Our future is in good hands, I think. Assuming we survive the 2020s.

    I wish I could be as optimistic as you guys, but the more I talk to newtimers the more
    convinced I am that we have reached cultural bankrupcy, and that we will soon hit
    industrial bankrupcy.

    And I am supposed to be a newtimer (as oposed to old-timers) myself. Go figure.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BEX on Mon Jul 4 08:46:00 2022
    information. Yes, the "Tide Pod" crowd needs to start using their brains, but at the end of the day, this is the same as the idiots who read "The Anarchists Cookbook", built a small pipebomb, and blew their legs off in the 80s.

    Thank you for saying that! I think that you and I are solidly Generation X? I've seen too many of us GenX'ers and Baby Boomers talk about the "stupidity o
    the millenials" and GenZ'ers without realizing that we did things that people in our generation were just as "stupid", just in different ways. It's a cycle:
    what a generation does is awesome, then becomes nostalgic, then becomes a tool
    to use to force a gulf with the next generations.

    I am in that generation but not a pipebomb builder. The things we consumed were at least meant for consumption, but maybe not always in the quantity
    that we consumed them. So, I reserve my right to make fun of tide pod eaters... and pipe bombers. :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * Windows isn't crippleware: it's "Functionally Challenged"

    ---
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Kevin Driscoll on Mon Jul 4 12:14:52 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to MRO on Fri Jun 17 2022 11:04 am

    Kevin, I just wanted to thank you for writing such a great book. It was certainly a page-turner for me (and I bought both the digital and physical hardcover, because I like this in a number of formats!), and more than just because it was a trip down memory lane. The nostalgia reminds us all of how key decisions about the social engagement, digital infrastructure, and global economy were built by using BBS'es as the key prototype. Great book!

    When I think about surveillance and censorship, I try to remember that the costs will be borne by people who are already disadvantaged in other ways. Those of us with resources and expertise will set up VPNs and adblockers and end-to-end encryption. But most people won't.

    Completely agree. Case in point: the Pi Hole. It's trivial to set up a global network-wide ad-blocker for less than $40 in parts, and minimal technical know-how, and you never have to worry again about invasive advertising, cookies, etc. But most Internet "consumers" have no clue how to do this, and they just blindly accept the ISP-provided default configurations (and invasive surveilance practices) that eradicate their privacy.

    As I often say about the state of global political affairs, people are in desperate need of education. Robert Heinlein might have argued that before people can vote, they need to know how to issue orders and repair computers.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to bex on Mon Jul 4 09:29:00 2022
    bex wrote to Ford Prefect <=-

    This is *very* much like the early '90s when both AOL and Prodigy were able to make their own walled gardens. Users who were drawn to those services didn't care about what was outside of the garden, they were content to consume the content available within the walls.

    The majority of the content at that time was in other walled gardens, though
    - I was a Compuserve member at the time, the forums were required reading
    for vendor IT support at the time. Gopherspace had just started to become a term, but it was mostly limited to academic use at the time.

    This was 1993-1994 or so - before the web took over.


    ... FOR SYSOP USE ONLY - Do not write below this line.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Tue Jul 5 10:37:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kaelon to Kevin Driscoll on Mon Jul 04 2022 12:14 pm

    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kevin Driscoll to MRO on Fri Jun 17 2022 11:04 am

    Kevin, I just wanted to thank you for writing such a great book. It was cer ory lane. The nostalgia reminds us all of how key decisions about the socia

    When I think about surveillance and censorship, I try to remember that th costs will be borne by people who are already disadvantaged in other ways Those of us with resources and expertise will set up VPNs and adblockers end-to-end encryption. But most people won't.

    Completely agree. Case in point: the Pi Hole. It's trivial to set up a glo rnet "consumers" have no clue how to do this, and they just blindly accept t

    As I often say about the state of global political affairs, people are in de _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    Google likes to play games with DNS, but when I first tried Pi-hole I notice
    at least 1/3 of the traffic coming through was trash. In an NPR article the reporter said half of what came across his phone was telemetry and services peeking in on everything he did. imagine people with limited data plans
    losing half of their plan to Google's spying?

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 5 14:24:36 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to bex on Mon Jul 04 2022 09:29 am

    bex wrote to Ford Prefect <=-

    This is *very* much like the early '90s when both AOL and Prodigy were able to make their own walled gardens. Users who were drawn to those services didn't care about what was outside of the garden, they were content to consume the content available within the walls.



    i dont know why you guys are calling BBSES walled gardens.

    aol and compuserve were bbses, essentially.
    they had a lot to offer so many people were content with that.
    later on they allowed web browsing. back then you couldnt do much on the web except fuck around a little.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Moondog on Tue Jul 5 13:45:23 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Moondog to Kaelon on Tue Jul 05 2022 10:37 am

    Google likes to play games with DNS, but when I first tried Pi-hole I notice at least 1/3 of the traffic coming through was trash. In an NPR article the reporter said half of what came across his phone was telemetry and services peeking in on everything he did. imagine people with limited data plans losing half of their plan to Google's spying?

    Totally agree. From my own Pi-Hole, about 30-40% of all queries are advertising, telemetry, and other privacy-violating behaviors that now I proactively block. That said, this has unintended consequences (that are nevertheless fully predictable). For example, Samsung TV's will not function if they don't get a "phone home" successful response, given that newer Samsung TV's are designed to be bricked if they are ever "stolen." Apple devices, on the other hand, don't care if they can't reach Apple.com services for telemetry management.

    As with all things, YMMV.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Moondog on Tue Jul 5 20:24:00 2022
    Hello Moondog!

    ** On Tuesday 05.07.22 - 10:37, Moondog wrote to Kaelon:

    Completely agree. Case in point: the Pi Hole. It's trivial to set up a
    glo rnet "consumers" have no clue how to do this, and they just blindly
    accept t



    Google likes to play games with DNS, but when I first tried Pi-hole I notice at least 1/3 of the traffic coming through was trash. In an NPR article the reporter said half of what came across his phone was telemetry and services peeking in on everything he did. imagine people with limited data plans losing half of their plan to Google's spying?

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data plans
    (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the apps that you
    use the most.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ron Lauzon@VERT/SYNCNIX to MRO on Wed Jul 6 08:36:00 2022
    MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    i dont know why you guys are calling BBSES walled gardens.

    Because, at that time, they were. Each BBS was its own little island with its own rules.

    But we usually reserve the term "walled garden" for the pay services.

    aol and compuserve were bbses, essentially.

    But Compu$erve was very pricy. Over time, BBSs offered similar content - usually for free. But as already stated, for some people Compu$erve access was a need and that information was (usually) available nowhere else. Hence "walled garden".

    AOhelL was sort of the same, but their goal was to get as many people on as possible - as opposed to Compu$erve which was to get as much money out of you as possible.


    ... Unzip, expand, explode... What pervert came up with this?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ron Lauzon on Wed Jul 6 08:55:30 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ron Lauzon to MRO on Wed Jul 06 2022 08:36 am

    i dont know why you guys are calling BBSES walled gardens.

    Because, at that time, they were. Each BBS was its own little island with its own rules.

    At what time? I don't remember anyone ever calling a BBS a walled garden. But I understand what you mean by that though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ron Lauzon on Wed Jul 6 13:26:25 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ron Lauzon to MRO on Wed Jul 06 2022 08:36 am

    MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    i dont know why you guys are calling BBSES walled gardens.

    Because, at that time, they were. Each BBS was its own little island with its own rules.

    But we usually reserve the term "walled garden" for the pay services.

    who is we? i never heard of that.
    aol , compuserve, etc were bbses.
    there were also pay bbses.

    But Compu$erve was very pricy. Over time, BBSs offered similar content -

    no it wasnt. aol was more expensive. prodigy was way expensive.

    But Compu$erve was very pricy. Over time, BBSs offered similar content - usually for free. But as already stated, for some people Compu$erve access was a need and that information was (usually) available nowhere else. Hence "walled garden".

    AOhelL was sort of the same, but their goal was to get as many people on as possible - as opposed to Compu$erve which was to get as much money out of you as possible.


    i was on both services (gardens) and no, bbses didn't offer similar content. ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Jul 6 13:26:49 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Nightfox to Ron Lauzon on Wed Jul 06 2022 08:55 am

    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ron Lauzon to MRO on Wed Jul 06 2022 08:36 am

    i dont know why you guys are calling BBSES walled gardens.

    Because, at that time, they were. Each BBS was its own little island with its own rules.

    At what time? I don't remember anyone ever calling a BBS a walled garden. But I understand what you mean by that though.



    nobody called bbses or online services walled gardens. i'm old and i never heard of that shit.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ron Lauzon@VERT/SYNCNIX to MRO on Thu Jul 7 08:23:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    But we usually reserve the term "walled garden" for the pay services.

    who is we? i never heard of that.

    "We" meaning the computer users of today. The term "walled garden" really didn't come into meaning until Apple and iOS. But the term is easily applied to the older services.

    aol , compuserve, etc were bbses.

    They were more than BBSs.

    there were also pay bbses.

    While there were plenty of similarities between a pay BBS and a commercial service, there were also a good amount of differences.

    But BBSs like Exec PC would be a good example of a pay BBS that was compairable to something like Compu$erve.

    But Compu$erve was very pricy. Over time, BBSs offered similar content -

    no it wasnt. aol was more expensive. prodigy was way expensive.

    I think you have your numbers flipped. Prodigy was relatively cheap (but a really poor value in any case). AOhelL was much cheaper than Compu$erve. But that's based on my memory only.

    I did use all of those at one time, so my memory should be pretty good.

    i was on both services (gardens) and no, bbses didn't offer similar content.

    By the time I was on Compu$erve, the main use was corporate email between customers and companies, and for technical documentation. That technical documentation was more and more often on BBSs that offered it for free.

    Sometimes those BBSs were set up by the company that owned the documentation so that their non-rich customers could also get that information without signing up for Compu$erve.


    ... A perfect woman is one that is inflated to 40psi.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Margaerynne@VERT/PALANT to Kaelon on Thu Jul 7 08:56:38 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Kaelon to Moondog on Tue Jul 05 2022 01:45 pm

    nevertheless fully predictable). For example, Samsung TV's will not function if they don't get a "phone home"
    successful response, given that newer Samsung TV's are designed to be bricked if they are ever "stolen." Apple
    devices, on the other hand, don't care if they can't reach Apple.com services for telemetry management.

    Sounds like another win -- if it doesn't function with a PiHole, you don't really want it.

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Kaelon on Wed Jul 6 07:59:00 2022
    Kaelon wrote to Moondog <=-

    Totally agree. From my own Pi-Hole, about 30-40% of all queries are advertising, telemetry, and other privacy-violating behaviors that now
    I proactively block.


    To counter the argument that normals aren't able to do things like setting
    up Pi-Hole, I have to mention running an ad-blocker in your browser. I'm running uBlock Origin, and my son isn't. I didn't realize how much of a difference it made until I saw some of the same sites on my son's laptop without it.

    That's an easy install if people know about it.



    ... Consider transitions
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thu Jul 7 06:55:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    Because, at that time, they were. Each BBS was its own little island
    with its own rules.

    At what time? I don't remember anyone ever calling a BBS a walled
    garden. But I understand what you mean by that though.

    I'd heard the term "Walled Garden" to refer to exclusive curated content on
    a paid service as a means to attract customers and keep them on your
    service. CompuServe used to host support forums and user groups that weren't available anywhere else.

    That said, each BBS had their own rules, especially when you were dialing
    into one of those "Calling into my BBS is like ringing the doorbell and sitting in my living room - you follow MY RULES" bbses.

    I recall one sysop correcting my grammar *while I was typing* and and
    another who deleted accounts of people who mis-used elipses at the end of sentences. Yet another who deleted accounts of sysops trying to poach "her" users by posting ads for their systems.

    She was a screwy one - her son ran the BBS and passed away, unfortunately,
    at an early age. Anything that broke the rules of the BBS was an affront to the memory of her son. Also did user verification by breaking into chat and asking when you were born. I'd put down a false, but approximate birth date and the way she'd responded you'd thought I'd tried to pass a bad check in
    her store.



    ... All of my certifications are self-signed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 7 08:43:48 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Jul 07 2022 06:55 am

    I'd heard the term "Walled Garden" to refer to exclusive curated content on a paid service as a means to attract customers and keep them on your service. CompuServe used to host support forums and user groups that weren't available anywhere else.

    I think the term can make sense for a BBS. I just hadn't heard anyone use that term for a BBS before.

    I recall one sysop correcting my grammar *while I was typing* and and another who deleted accounts of people who mis-used elipses at the end of sentences. Yet another who deleted accounts of sysops trying to poach "her" users by posting ads for their systems.

    She was a screwy one - her son ran the BBS and passed away, unfortunately, at an early age. Anything that broke the rules of the BBS was an affront to the memory of her son. Also did user verification by breaking into chat and asking when you were born. I'd put down a false, but approximate birth date and the way she'd responded you'd thought I'd tried to pass a bad check in her store.

    Definitely sounds like an odd one.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ron Lauzon on Thu Jul 7 14:08:37 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ron Lauzon to MRO on Thu Jul 07 2022 08:23 am


    But we usually reserve the term "walled garden" for the pay services.

    who is we? i never heard of that.

    "We" meaning the computer users of today. The term "walled garden" really

    it's your story. tell it how you want to tell it.

    aol , compuserve, etc were bbses.

    They were more than BBSs.

    they were essentially bbses.

    Sometimes those BBSs were set up by the company that owned the documentation so that their non-rich customers could also get that information without signing up for Compu$erve.

    okay mr historian. thank you for the lesson in something i've been doing for 32 years.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 7 14:12:53 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Jul 07 2022 06:55 am

    I'd heard the term "Walled Garden" to refer to exclusive curated content on a paid service as a means to attract customers and keep them on your service. CompuServe used to host support forums and user groups that weren't available anywhere else.

    arent most sites and services providing things that arent available anywhere else? i can't go into burgerking and get tacobell. i can't go in to a library and drink beer and watch a football game.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kaelon on Thu Jul 7 14:20:55 2022
    On 7/4/22 12:14, Kaelon wrote:

    Completely agree. Case in point: the Pi Hole. It's trivial to set up
    a global network-wide ad-blocker for less than $40 in parts, and
    minimal technical know-how, and you never have to worry again about
    invasive advertising, cookies, etc. But most Internet "consumers"
    have no clue how to do this, and they just blindly accept the ISP-
    provided default configurations (and invasive surveilance practices)
    that eradicate their privacy.

    I literally just installed a PiHole+Wireguard at a friend's house last weekend... the irony, is his wife works in digital marketting... so had
    to set her work computer to not use the pihole for DNS specifically.

    Wireguard is partly for remote access to the home network... but more
    because that's the only way to really set mobile devices to not use the carrier's DNS.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Thu Jul 7 14:53:24 2022
    On 7/5/22 07:37, Moondog wrote:

    Google likes to play games with DNS, but when I first tried Pi-hole I
    notice at least 1/3 of the traffic coming through was trash. In an
    NPR article the reporter said half of what came across his phone was telemetry and services peeking in on everything he did. imagine
    people with limited data plans losing half of their plan to Google's
    spying?

    Mostly use pihole with Cloudflare's DNS (1.1.1.1, 1.0.0.1), not quite as
    close as Google's, but I trust them a *lot* more.

    It's closer to 60% in terms of bandwidth overhead if you consider ad
    content with tracking, not including audio/video services, which dwarf text/ads.


    Aside: docker-compose for pihole, wireguard and caddy reverse proxy. https://gist.github.com/tracker1/44ef4181b8234b7affb133c8cf2378b6
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kaelon on Thu Jul 7 14:57:18 2022
    On 7/5/22 13:45, Kaelon wrote:

    Totally agree. From my own Pi-Hole, about 30-40% of all queries are advertising, telemetry, and other privacy-violating behaviors that now
    I proactively block. That said, this has unintended consequences
    (that are nevertheless fully predictable).

    What's funny, is most of the streaming services work without issue...
    the one glaring exception and cancelled promptly was Paramount/CBS. I'd prefer to pay and let them know what's being watched so shows I like get support... but I'd just assume pirate if they can't produce a (small)
    list of hostnames to whitelist.

    Everyone else seems to manage without discrete trackers... so to hell
    with them.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Dr. What@VERT/FINALZON to MRO on Fri Jul 8 08:15:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    okay mr historian. thank you for the lesson in something i've been
    doing for 32 years.

    You're welcome for the lesson. I figured that since you are a newby (compared to me), you probably missed out on some things.


    ... Horn busted! Watch for finger...
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Final Zone BBS - final-zone.net - finalzone.ddns.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Tracker1 on Fri Jul 8 08:47:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Tracker1 to Kaelon on Thu Jul 07 2022 02:20 pm


    I literally just installed a PiHole+Wireguard at a friend's house last weekend... the irony, is his wife works in digital marketting... so had to set her work computer to not use the pihole for DNS specifically.

    Heh, I also work in the adtech industry. I've had to whitelist a whole bunch of our domains in my pi-hole setup just to be able to do my job on a daily basis.

    DaiTengu

    ... If little else, the brain is an educational toy.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Kaelon@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 8 10:21:44 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Kaelon on Wed Jul 06 2022 07:59 am

    To counter the argument that normals aren't able to do things like setting up Pi-Hole, I have to mention running an ad-blocker in your browser. I'm running uBlock Origin, and my son isn't. I didn't realize how much of a difference it made until I saw some of the same sites on my son's laptop without it.

    Great advice, and you're right. Device-specific ad and tracker-blocking works really well. I just selected the Pi-Hole because I wanted the convenience of network-level blocking, but - while fairly "trivial" - it requires some degree of comfort with network management, and you're right, not everyone has this patience.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Tracker1 on Fri Jul 8 10:23:28 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Tracker1 to Kaelon on Thu Jul 07 2022 02:20 pm

    Wireguard is partly for remote access to the home network... but more because that's the only way to really set mobile devices to not use the carrier's DNS.

    Tell me more. What carrier specifically? If you're on the home network, does the carrier perform DNS lookups locally, regardless of home DNS lookup rules? I've never heard of this situation before - but admittedly, I'm still only just an intermediate home networker. ;)
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Tracker1 on Fri Jul 8 10:25:27 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Tracker1 to Kaelon on Thu Jul 07 2022 02:57 pm

    What's funny, is most of the streaming services work without issue...
    the one glaring exception and cancelled promptly was Paramount/CBS. I'd prefer to pay and let them know what's being watched so shows I like get support... but I'd just assume pirate if they can't produce a (small)
    list of hostnames to whitelist.

    That's funny! I actually love what Pi-Hole does to legacy streaming servers, like Roku's. It removes all of the visible advertising and actually makes them clean and pleasurable to navigate through the UI. That said, there are some people in the Pi-Hole community that maintain extensive optional blacklists to try and prevent Google from showcasing YouTube ads. I think that's overkill. My 100,000+ or so blocked domains and IPs serve almost all of my use-cases that I am willing to pay the $10/mo. to watch YouTube without ads.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Fri Jul 8 13:55:29 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Jul 08 2022 08:15 am

    MRO wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    okay mr historian. thank you for the lesson in something i've been doing for 32 years.

    You're welcome for the lesson. I figured that since you are a newby (compared to me), you probably missed out on some things.

    not really. you just have a lot of made up ideas.
    especially your comments about some services being too expensive. i was a kid back then and i was paying for them.

    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Fri Jul 8 23:46:27 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Moondog on Tue Jul 05 2022 08:24 pm

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data plans
    (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the apps that you
    use the most.

    that's messed up that you have a limited data plan. this isnt the 90s.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Kaelon on Fri Jul 8 19:58:00 2022
    Hello Kaelon!

    ** On Friday 08.07.22 - 10:25, Kaelon wrote to Tracker1:

    extensive optional blacklists to try and prevent Google from showcasing YouTube ads. I think that's overkill. My 100,000+ or so
    blocked domains and IPs serve almost all of my use-cases
    that I am willing to pay the $10/mo. to watch YouTube
    without ads. _____

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even weekly
    basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free for $0/mo !

    :D

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Sat Jul 9 06:47:02 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Moondog on Tue Jul 05 2022 08:24 pm

    Hello Moondog!

    ** On Tuesday 05.07.22 - 10:37, Moondog wrote to Kaelon:

    Completely agree. Case in point: the Pi Hole. It's trivial to set up a
    glo rnet "consumers" have no clue how to do this, and they just blindly
    accept t



    Google likes to play games with DNS, but when I first tried Pi-hole I notice at least 1/3 of the traffic coming through was trash. In an NPR article the reporter said half of what came across his phone was telemet and services peeking in on everything he did. imagine people with limit data plans losing half of their plan to Google's spying?

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data plans
    (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the apps that you
    use the most.



    I just use Netguard, available on F-DROID. It has an application-level firewall which you can use to preventing apps from generating traffic. It is very flexible for what it is.

    It may be configured to allow certains applications to use INternet only when connected to Wifi (or data), you can blacklist destinations using commonly available blacklists. It is great for killing advertisements off.

    The bad news is that common versions available don't have firewalling, because they go about Google's ToS. This is why you need the F-DROID version, or to build your own.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Sat Jul 9 08:38:00 2022
    Tracker1 wrote to Kaelon <=-

    Wireguard is partly for remote access to the home network... but more because that's the only way to really set mobile devices to not use the carrier's DNS.

    OpenWRT and DD-WRT will both do DNS redirection - even if you set your
    client DNS manually, the routers will redirect DNS queries to the
    router-set DNS server.

    I set that and OpenDNS up in my router - not sure if my kids are ready to
    try changing their network settings *yet*, but they will be soon.

    My 12-year old learned how to clear her browser history, I'm thinking of logging everything from her IP. :)

    Or, are you talking about the carrier's DNS over the cell network? If so,
    not sure how Wireguard would play into things.

    ... What does this mean?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Ogg on Sun Jul 10 08:48:21 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to Kaelon on Fri Jul 08 2022 07:58 pm

    Hello Kaelon!

    Hi, Ogg!

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even weekly
    basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free for $0/mo !

    What's your secret? ;) I've tried many of the blocklists for Pi-Hole that claim they can ad-remove the YouTube experience, but I find it hit-or-miss.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sun Jul 10 08:23:00 2022
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Friday 08.07.22 - 23:46, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data
    plans (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the
    apps that you use the most.

    that's messed up that you have a limited data plan. this isnt the 90s.

    All mobile data plans here (Canada) are limited to the extent
    that we pay for a base quota. Anything after that is throttled.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Ogg on Sun Jul 10 13:33:54 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jul 10 2022 08:23 am

    All mobile data plans here (Canada) are limited to the extent
    that we pay for a base quota. Anything after that is throttled.

    There is de-facto throttling in the United States on most services, as well, but it is becoming an increasingly rare practice to actually enforce the throttle. T-Mobile, for example, throttles only its monthly Mobile Hotspot service beyond the first 5.0 Gigs. But for "unlimited" data plans, T-Mobile has no such throttling anymore. It was quite common from the late 2000s up through 2015 to enforce this throttled limit, but alas, no more.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sun Jul 10 16:19:05 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jul 10 2022 08:23 am

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Friday 08.07.22 - 23:46, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data
    plans (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the
    apps that you use the most.

    that's messed up that you have a limited data plan. this isnt the 90s.

    All mobile data plans here (Canada) are limited to the extent
    that we pay for a base quota. Anything after that is throttled.

    yep that sucks
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dr. What@VERT/FINALZON to MRO on Sun Jul 10 17:15:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    You're welcome for the lesson. I figured that since you are a newby (compared to me), you probably missed out on some things.

    not really. you just have a lot of made up ideas.

    No. I have a lot of different ideas.

    especially your comments about some services being too expensive. i was
    a kid back then and i was paying for them.

    And I was an adult back then - and I was paying for those services. But if you were a kid, I doubt that you were paying for those services out of your own pocket.


    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." (Bill Gates, 1981)
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Final Zone BBS - final-zone.net - finalzone.ddns.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Sun Jul 10 20:07:43 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Sun Jul 10 2022 05:15 pm

    No. I have a lot of different ideas.

    yes, different retarded ideas.


    especially your comments about some services being too expensive. i

    was
    a kid back then and i was paying for them.

    And I was an adult back then - and I was paying for those services. But

    if
    you were a kid, I doubt that you were paying for those services out of your own pocket.

    well i was 18-19. that's what i call a kid.
    i had AOL, compuserv and i tried out the other ones.

    I was paying for them.
    apparently I didn't have the 'walled garden' access.

    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Phoobar@VERT/FREEWAY to Kaelon on Mon Jul 11 04:08:00 2022
    On Sun Jul 10 13:33:00 2022, Kaelon wrote to Ogg <=-

    > There is de-facto throttling in the United States on most services, as well, but it is becoming an increasingly rare practice to actually enforce the throttle. T-Mobile, for example, throttles only its monthly Mobile Hotspot service beyond the first 5.0 Gigs. But for "unlimited" data plans, T-Mobile has no such throttling anymore. It was quite common from the late 2000s up through 2015 to enforce this throttled limit, but alas, no more.

    Being on the T-Mobile data plan (no phone service)...haven't had my service throttled...except when the network gets congested by the amount of people on the network at that time. Later in the evening...goes back to unlimited speed. Love working swing shift & only notice the congestion on my days off...since I do much of my use overnights.

    ... If you only see one movie this year...you need to get out more often.
    === TitanMail/winnt v1.1.6

    ---
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kaelon on Mon Jul 11 17:47:16 2022
    On 7/8/22 10:23, Kaelon wrote:
    Wireguard is partly for remote access to the home network... but more
    because that's the only way to really set mobile devices to not use
    the carrier's DNS.

    Tell me more. What carrier specifically? If you're on the home
    network, does the carrier perform DNS lookups locally, regardless of
    home DNS lookup rules? I've never heard of this situation before -
    but admittedly, I'm still only just an intermediate home networker.
    ;)

    At home is generally using the home's dns when on wifi... but that
    doesn't help you when you're not at home.

    With wireguard, I can be on the carrier or a guest wifi, but still
    routed through home and using my home dns (pihole).
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kaelon on Mon Jul 11 17:50:00 2022
    On 7/8/22 10:25, Kaelon wrote:

    That's funny! I actually love what Pi-Hole does to legacy streaming
    servers, like Roku's. It removes all of the visible advertising and actually makes them clean and pleasurable to navigate through the UI.
    That said, there are some people in the Pi-Hole community that
    maintain extensive optional blacklists to try and prevent Google from showcasing YouTube ads. I think that's overkill. My 100,000+ or so
    blocked domains and IPs serve almost all of my use-cases that I am
    willing to pay the $10/mo. to watch YouTube without ads.

    I'm paying for YouTube as well. It includes music access and the content creators on YouTube tend to get a larger payout from paid YouTube
    accounts than the ads (per person).
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Ogg on Mon Jul 11 17:53:01 2022
    On 7/8/22 16:58, Ogg wrote:

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even weekly
    basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free for $0/mo !
    I do it mostly because the creators get a cut of that $10, and a larger
    amount than if I watched the ads... I do watch a lot of YouTube.

    Mostly Breaking Points, Linus Tech Tips channels, Gamers Nexus,
    Jayz2Cents, Craft Computing, but many others.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Mon Jul 11 22:04:00 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Tracker1 to Ogg on Mon Jul 11 2022 05:53 pm

    On 7/8/22 16:58, Ogg wrote:

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even weekly
    basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free for $0/mo !
    I do it mostly because the creators get a cut of that $10, and a larger amount than if I watched the ads... I do watch a lot of YouTube.

    Mostly Breaking Points, Linus Tech Tips channels, Gamers Nexus,
    Jayz2Cents, Craft Computing, but many others.

    i watch advoko makes, ericsurf6, scotty kilmer, beard meats food and i used to watch the homeless firefighter.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Kaelon on Mon Jul 11 19:34:00 2022
    Hello Kaelon!

    ** On Sunday 10.07.22 - 08:48, Kaelon wrote to Ogg:

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even
    weekly basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free
    for $0/mo !

    What's your secret? ;) I've tried many of the blocklists
    for Pi-Hole that claim they can ad-remove the YouTube
    experience, but I find it hit-or-miss. _____

    I simply download the material using youtube-dl or yt-dlp
    depending on which computer I happen to be using and watch the
    material on my TV later.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 13 08:23:00 2022
    Hello Tracker1!

    ** On Monday 11.07.22 - 17:53, Tracker1 wrote to Ogg:

    On 7/8/22 16:58, Ogg wrote:

    I don't particularly watch YT stuff on a daily or even weekly
    basis, but whatever I do watch I can get it ad-free for $0/mo !

    I do it mostly because the creators get a cut of that $10,
    and a larger amount than if I watched the ads... I do watch
    a lot of YouTube.

    I don't have unlimited or high-speed internet at home, so I
    pick and choose potential viewings during the day at my shop
    where I have DSL, and then watch the material later at my
    convenience at home. And.. doing it that way, I've learned to
    pick and choose wisely. Watching just a few of those can eat up
    an evening's time quite a bit.


    Mostly Breaking Points, Linus Tech Tips channels, Gamers
    Nexus, Jayz2Cents, Craft Computing, but many others.

    Familiar with the Linus one only.

    I have quite a few mark favorites, but I haven't visited a
    single one in over 3 months.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Ogg on Thu Jul 14 00:13:00 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jul 10 2022 08:23 am

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Friday 08.07.22 - 23:46, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    From having a Google Pixel phone to play with, I've learned
    that for people who are are operating with limited data
    plans (like myself), turn off" "background data" on the
    apps that you use the most.

    that's messed up that you have a limited data plan. this isnt the 90s.

    All mobile data plans here (Canada) are limited to the extent
    that we pay for a base quota. Anything after that is throttled.



    I have a Tracfone (pre-paid plans) and there is no throttling. Once you're ou t, you need to buy more time. My brother uses a buttload of data and has an A TT "unlimited" time plan. It's actually 20-25gb of data, unlimited text and voice. He burns through the data right away becuase of facebook and youtube, and they throttle it down when the cap is exceeded.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Thu Jul 14 10:28:07 2022
    Re: New BBS history book
    By: Moondog to Ogg on Thu Jul 14 2022 12:13 am



    I have a Tracfone (pre-paid plans) and there is no throttling. Once you're ou t, you need to buy more time. My brother uses a buttload of data and has an A TT "unlimited" time plan. It's actually 20-25gb of data, unlimited text and voice. He burns through the data right away becuase of facebook and youtube, and they throttle it down when the cap is exceeded.

    switch to straight talk. it's tracfone but better.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Jul 16 14:40:08 2022
    On 7/9/22 08:38, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    Tracker1 wrote to Kaelon <=-

    Wireguard is partly for remote access to the home network... but
    more because that's the only way to really set mobile devices to
    not use the carrier's DNS.

    ...

    Or, are you talking about the carrier's DNS over the cell network?
    If so, not sure how Wireguard would play into things.

    I have my phone configured to use Wireguard... most phones only allow
    setting DNS in conjunction with the use of a VPN application... So with
    it on, my DNS and network traffic are routed through my home.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 14:42:13 2022
    On 7/10/22 08:48, Kaelon wrote:

    I've tried many of the blocklists for Pi-Hole that claim they can
    ad-remove the YouTube experience, but I find it hit-or-miss.

    Alphabet (Google/YouTube) have more resources available, including a
    domain registrar than the people making the block lists. The *could*
    even do primary domain routed delivery if they wanted to, they chose to
    reduce the added latency instead.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Tracker1 on Sat Jul 16 18:53:01 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: Tracker1 to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 02:42 pm

    Alphabet (Google/YouTube) have more resources available, including a
    domain registrar than the people making the block lists. The *could*
    even do primary domain routed delivery if they wanted to, they chose to reduce the added latency instead.

    Well stated. I will say, personally, I find YouTube Premium worth the $10/mo. It also includes ad-free, always-on video streaming, and the entire Google Play music library, if I ever wanted to use it.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Theviper@VERT/T0KERZ to MRO on Mon Jul 18 19:07:42 2022
    Re: Re: New BBS history book
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 07 2022 02:12 pm

    ---
    Synchronet t0kerZ hUt