• Forced Upgrade

    From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Moondog on Tue May 10 11:36:50 2022
    By 91, every area had more than one local BBS, and 2400 baud modems could be bought for cheap at the Electronics Boutique in the mall. ISP's didn't take over in my area until 96-97. Getting Windows 95 was the main reason many of our customers chose to upgrade. they have been happy with their 386's and 486's with 2400 baud modems, and were forced to move to a Pentium and a 14.4k modem

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Dr. What@VERT/FINALZON to Ennev on Wed May 11 08:43:00 2022
    Ennev wrote to Moondog <=-

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known
    that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.

    For me, that was Windows 2000 - and I've never regretted the switch.


    ... If it's useless, it will have to be documented.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dr. What on Thu May 12 20:55:30 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Dr. What to Ennev on Wed May 11 2022 08:43 am

    Ennev wrote to Moondog <=-

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.

    For me, that was Windows 2000 - and I've never regretted the switch.


    ... If it's useless, it will have to be documented.
    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumped ship.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Thu May 12 08:24:39 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dr. What on Thu May 12 2022 08:55 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Sat May 14 10:21:38 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu May 12 2022 08:24 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dr. What on Thu May 12 2022 08:55 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbe down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumpe ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?

    Nightfox

    Yes. Windows 95 and 98 ran DOS 7. DOS 7 would boot, then windows would load after that. Unlike Windows 3.1 which had to be loaded separately, orput into your autoexec.bat to automatically load, Windows 95/98 would boot windows automatically. But if you pressed a function key, F8 I think it was when windows 95 was just starting to load, you would get a menu, and you could select DOS mode, which would boot to command.com and not load windows at all.

    There was also a hidden config file in the root directory which you could edit, to stop Windows automatically loading. Then you'd just boot into DOS, and to go to Windows 95/98, you'd run 'win'. That is how I had my system set up because a lot of the time I wanted DOS, not Windows.

    Windows ME I think was based on the same, but just didn't offer the option or capability to boot to DOS.

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    ---
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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Boraxman on Sat May 14 10:18:28 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Nightfox on Sat May 14 2022 10:21 am

    Yes. Windows 95 and 98 ran DOS 7. DOS 7 would boot, then windows would load

    Indeed it did! Back in those days, I serviced a ton of school districts who used an old courseware package from IBM called ICLAS. ICLAS ran on NetWare
    3.x servers, and provided educational software, student/class
    administration, and a menuing system for the users. The ICLAS client-side would also not run within Win9x. When the 9x boxes began appearing in one district, I had to come up with a dual-boot config for them, which eventually became the standard for all of the other districts who were still hanging on to ICLAS.

    I kind of miss those days. I dealt with all kinds of fun things, like 4Mbps Token Ring LANs with the big square IBM IDC connectors, diskless
    386 workstations that would RPL boot to the NetWare server...

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Sat May 14 09:29:00 2022
    Windows ME I think was based on the same, but just didn't offer the option or capability to boot to DOS.

    Yes, ME was a slight alteration of 98SE, but 98SE seemed more stable. I
    cannot remember if ME completely removed the boot to DOS capability or not, though.

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    Yes to this also. Some of the utilities that remained may have been
    upgraded somehow, but many that were present in DOS 6.22 were missing in 7.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Remember when safe sex was not getting caught in the act?

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Sat May 14 15:04:51 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat May 14 2022 09:29 am

    Yes, ME was a slight alteration of 98SE, but 98SE seemed more stable. I cannot remember if ME completely removed the boot to DOS capability or not, though.

    From what I remember, ME did remove the ability to boot only to DOS. Also, many people complained about ME being one of the worst versions of Windows, but I ran it for a little while and didn't have a problem with it. It seemed fairly stable, but I guess everyone had a different experience. And actually, one thing that seemed to be fixed in ME that often seemed broken in 98 was that it would actually shut down fully.. With Windows 98, often I remember Windows getting stuck at the "Windows is shutting down" screen but it wouldn't actually fully shut down. I don't remember if there was a fix for that in Windows 98 though, but I imagine there had to have been..

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    Yes to this also. Some of the utilities that remained may have been upgraded somehow, but many that were present in DOS 6.22 were missing in 7.

    Yes, I think the idea was that there were supposed to be Windows 9x equivalents for most of those DOS tools, and since MS-DOS 7 came only with Windows 9x, they figured they didn't need to include DOS versions of those tools.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Belly on Sun May 15 11:35:35 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Boraxman on Sat May 14 2022 10:18 am

    Indeed it did! Back in those days, I serviced a ton of school districts who used an old courseware package from IBM called ICLAS. ICLAS ran on NetWare 3.x servers, and provided educational software, student/class administration, and a menuing system for the users. The ICLAS client-side wo also not run within Win9x. When the 9x boxes began appearing in one district had to come up with a dual-boot config for them, which eventually became the standard for all of the other districts who were still hanging on to ICLAS.

    I kind of miss those days. I dealt with all kinds of fun things, like 4Mbps Token Ring LANs with the big square IBM IDC connectors, diskless
    386 workstations that would RPL boot to the NetWare server...

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    Well, we were younger back then (as was everyone else alive then) and everything was newer, with advances being bigger and more exciting at least in terms of hardware.

    I remember my uncle showing me his new 386, and I saw a picture of a mouse. A stock gif, but if was a 256 colour VGA gif, and it looked "realistic", something I hadn't seen before on the XTs/Commodore 64's I've seen in the past.
    A computer image could look natural and it felt like there was some awesome computing power there.

    The small incremental improvements now are barely noticable, and no longer have that level of excitement.

    ---
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dumas Walker on Sun May 15 11:40:28 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat May 14 2022 09:29 am

    Windows ME I think was based on the same, but just didn't offer the option capability to boot to DOS.

    Yes, ME was a slight alteration of 98SE, but 98SE seemed more stable. I cannot remember if ME completely removed the boot to DOS capability or not, though.

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    Yes to this also. Some of the utilities that remained may have been upgraded somehow, but many that were present in DOS 6.22 were missing in 7.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Remember when safe sex was not getting caught in the act?


    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning to move away from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.

    Windows ME was also pretty unreliable and crappy. I recall trying to fix someones broken Windows ME machine and just getting frustrated. It had a pretty bad reputation.

    Most of the utilities stripped out of DOS 7 were those which were either avaiable in Windows (such as defrag) or could be done with windows tools (file sharing and the like). Others such as SCANDISK were upgrated to support VFAT.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Sun May 15 11:42:42 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Sat May 14 2022 03:04 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat May 14 2022 09:29 am

    Yes, ME was a slight alteration of 98SE, but 98SE seemed more stable. I cannot remember if ME completely removed the boot to DOS capability or not, though.

    From what I remember, ME did remove the ability to boot only to DOS. Also, many people complained about ME being one of the worst versions of Windows, I ran it for a little while and didn't have a problem with it. It seemed fairly stable, but I guess everyone had a different experience. And actuall one thing that seemed to be fixed in ME that often seemed broken in 98 was t it would actually shut down fully.. With Windows 98, often I remember Windo getting stuck at the "Windows is shutting down" screen but it wouldn't actua fully shut down. I don't remember if there was a fix for that in Windows 98 though, but I imagine there had to have been..

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    Yes to this also. Some of the utilities that remained may have been upgraded somehow, but many that were present in DOS 6.22 were missing i 7.

    Yes, I think the idea was that there were supposed to be Windows 9x equivale for most of those DOS tools, and since MS-DOS 7 came only with Windows 9x, t figured they didn't need to include DOS versions of those tools.

    Nightfox


    I hated that issue with Windows 98, it not shutting down. When I switched to a PC with a soft power off function, it drove me nuts. It maybe shut down a third of the time, and made me think that the 'soft power off' function was a crappy regression.

    When I moved to an OS which DID shut down everytime, my views of this functionality turned 180 degrees.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Sat May 14 20:45:00 2022
    Belly wrote to Boraxman <=-

    I kind of miss those days. I dealt with all kinds of fun things, like 4Mbps Token Ring LANs with the big square IBM IDC connectors, diskless
    386 workstations that would RPL boot to the NetWare server...

    Yeah, solutions were creative when resources were low. I did token
    ring and ARCNet, and supported a company effectively with a fraction
    of the computing power we have now.

    I had to do an audit back in 1992, and one of the items was a total of
    all disk storage. Between a VAX, 2 IBM S/38s and an AS/400 a Netware
    network and LAN Manager network, I came up with about 50 gigs of
    space.

    This was for a mail order/retail company with hundreds of millions in
    revenue and 300+ employees.



    ... Discover the recipes you are using and abandon them
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Phigan to Boraxman on Sun May 15 09:14:17 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Sun May 15 2022 11:40:28

    Windows ME was also pretty unreliable and crappy. I recall trying to fix

    It had some issues with a lot of drivers at the time, iirc, among other things. It really was the worst version of Windows :). The issues someone else mentioned that were taken care of in ME were also taken care of in 98SE(2).
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Boraxman on Sun May 15 09:20:35 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Belly on Sun May 15 2022 11:35 am

    The small incremental improvements now are barely noticable, and no longer h that level of excitement.

    I think the PC platform is mature now, and that's the reason. The
    technological improvements these days are in so many other areas. When I was using a 300 baud acoustic-coupled modem, I never dreamed that I would have a data connection to the entire world that could transfer 2Gbps, nor would I have been able to even wrap my head around the concept of a Giga-anything. My computer had 16k of RAM and ran at 4MHz then.

    A few years later, burning tires in my old truck that felt fast at the time, with a V8 with an output of 180HP, I couldn't have imagined that today I would own a vehicle with a 300HP four-cylinder, and that I would be able to sit back and watch as its computer drove me down the highway using a combination of cameras and radar.

    Or the amount of computing power we carry around in our pockets... Or the energy density of modern batteries.

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for the best :)


    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 15 09:30:09 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Sat May 14 2022 08:45 pm

    I had to do an audit back in 1992, and one of the items was a total of
    all disk storage. Between a VAX, 2 IBM S/38s and an AS/400 a Netware
    network and LAN Manager network, I came up with about 50 gigs of
    space.

    Quite a far cry from the 16TB SSD RAIDed SAN that I built for the smallish school district network (~1600 devices) that I admin!

    Your old network and mine do have one thing in common, though: Novell. Or these days, Micro Focus. NetWare may be gone, but Open Enterprise Server on top of Linux is not. And eDirectory is still more robust and flexible than AD ever was. And ZENworks is the bees knees for desktop management!


    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Sun May 15 09:08:00 2022
    tually shut down fully.. With Windows 98, often I remember Windows getting st
    k at the "Windows is shutting down" screen but it wouldn't actually fully shut
    own. I don't remember if there was a fix for that in Windows 98 though, but I
    magine there had to have been..

    I remember having that issue with 95 and 98, but not much with 98SE.


    * SLMR 2.1a * (a) Fast, (b) Reliable, (c) Inexpensive - Pick Two.

    ---
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Belly on Sun May 15 12:53:00 2022
    Hello Belly!

    ** On Sunday 15.05.22 - 09:20, Belly wrote to Boraxman:

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've
    seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for
    the best :)

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully
    automated "taxi" services that you could order to arrive at
    your chosen point of departure and take you straight to where
    you want to go.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Ogg on Sun May 15 19:22:32 2022
    Re: we still don't have flying cars yet
    By: Ogg to Belly on Sun May 15 2022 12:53 pm

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully

    Has there been any recent chatter on that front? A few years ago I used to hear about startups with their new machines, but not much lately.

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Sun May 15 21:25:35 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu May 12 2022 08:24 am

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated
    reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system,
    dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of,
    so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?

    Yes, but unlike Windows 95 you couldn't just shell into DOS, you could still use DOS though.

    ... More Oxymoron's: Free Love, Jumbo Shrimp, Freezer Burn.

    ---
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 16 09:18:53 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Sat May 14 2022 08:45 pm

    I kind of miss those days. I dealt with all kinds of fun things, like 4Mbps Token Ring LANs with the big square IBM IDC connectors, diskless 386 workstations that would RPL boot to the NetWare server...

    Yeah, solutions were creative when resources were low. I did token
    ring and ARCNet, and supported a company effectively with a fraction
    of the computing power we have now.

    I had to do an audit back in 1992, and one of the items was a total of
    all disk storage. Between a VAX, 2 IBM S/38s and an AS/400 a Netware
    network and LAN Manager network, I came up with about 50 gigs of
    space.

    This was for a mail order/retail company with hundreds of millions in revenue and 300+ employees.

    You also, when resources are low, take more time to evaluate what you really need. You can afford clutter on the screen, or unecessary visual effects, which is a good thing. Abundance leads to lazyness which leads to waste which leads to entropy.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Phigan on Mon May 16 09:22:18 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Phigan to Boraxman on Sun May 15 2022 09:14 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Sun May 15 2022 11:40:28

    Windows ME was also pretty unreliable and crappy. I recall trying to fix

    It had some issues with a lot of drivers at the time, iirc, among other thin It really was the worst version of Windows :). The issues someone else mentioned that were taken care of in ME were also taken care of in 98SE(2).


    All my friends skipped over it, going from 98 to Windows 2000. In fact, that one machine I tried to fix may have been the only one I ever used with Windows ME on it. It was a computer I built for a work colleague.

    ---
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Belly on Mon May 16 09:29:08 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Boraxman on Sun May 15 2022 09:20 am

    I think the PC platform is mature now, and that's the reason. The technological improvements these days are in so many other areas. When I was using a 300 baud acoustic-coupled modem, I never dreamed that I would have a data connection to the entire world that could transfer 2Gbps, nor would I h been able to even wrap my head around the concept of a Giga-anything. My computer had 16k of RAM and ran at 4MHz then.

    A few years later, burning tires in my old truck that felt fast at the time, with a V8 with an output of 180HP, I couldn't have imagined that today I wou own a vehicle with a 300HP four-cylinder, and that I would be able to sit ba and watch as its computer drove me down the highway using a combination of cameras and radar.

    Or the amount of computing power we carry around in our pockets... Or the energy density of modern batteries.

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for the best :)
    I hope they never make flying cars ubiquitous. The visual pollution would be horrendous, the traffic would blot out the sun.

    Indeed the platform has matured, which does make it more boring. The desktop computer I have is 13 years old, and more than powerful enough for what I need to do day to day. You couldn't have said that about any 13 year old computer in the 2000's or earlier. There simply is enough CPU power, RAM, resolution, data transfer capabilities do what we want computers to do (At least in our own limited vision) comfortably.

    I do want some simplicity back though.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Boraxman on Mon May 16 07:26:00 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Nightfox on Sun May 15 2022 11:42 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Sat May 14 2022 03:04 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat May 14 2022 09:29 am

    Yes, ME was a slight alteration of 98SE, but 98SE seemed more stable cannot remember if ME completely removed the boot to DOS capability not, though.

    From what I remember, ME did remove the ability to boot only to DOS. Als many people complained about ME being one of the worst versions of Window I ran it for a little while and didn't have a problem with it. It seemed fairly stable, but I guess everyone had a different experience. And actu one thing that seemed to be fixed in ME that often seemed broken in 98 wa it would actually shut down fully.. With Windows 98, often I remember Wi getting stuck at the "Windows is shutting down" screen but it wouldn't ac fully shut down. I don't remember if there was a fix for that in Windows though, but I imagine there had to have been..

    DOS 7 was a stripped down version of DOS 6.

    Yes to this also. Some of the utilities that remained may have been upgraded somehow, but many that were present in DOS 6.22 were missin 7.

    Yes, I think the idea was that there were supposed to be Windows 9x equiv for most of those DOS tools, and since MS-DOS 7 came only with Windows 9x figured they didn't need to include DOS versions of those tools.

    Nightfox


    I hated that issue with Windows 98, it not shutting down. When I switched t PC with a soft power off function, it drove me nuts. It maybe shut down a third of the time, and made me think that the 'soft power off' function was crappy regression.

    When I moved to an OS which DID shut down everytime, my views of this functionality turned 180 degrees.


    In a networked environment it was worse. Win98 will try to shut down without disconnecting to network share, and would wait for them to shut down or time out. It rarely happened until sp2

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Ogg on Mon May 16 07:37:00 2022
    Re: we still don't have flyin
    By: Ogg to Belly on Sun May 15 2022 12:53 pm

    Hello Belly!

    ** On Sunday 15.05.22 - 09:20, Belly wrote to Boraxman:

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've
    seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for
    the best :)

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully
    automated "taxi" services that you could order to arrive at
    your chosen point of departure and take you straight to where
    you want to go.


    The travel times and distances aren't that great per battery capacity. For safety reasons in densely populated areas, flight patterns and special flight rules need to be established. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm impressed with the demos I've seen, but we're a ways from a mature technology.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Boraxman on Mon May 16 07:49:00 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 09:29 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Boraxman on Sun May 15 2022 09:20 am

    I think the PC platform is mature now, and that's the reason. The technological improvements these days are in so many other areas. When I using a 300 baud acoustic-coupled modem, I never dreamed that I would hav data connection to the entire world that could transfer 2Gbps, nor would been able to even wrap my head around the concept of a Giga-anything. My computer had 16k of RAM and ran at 4MHz then.

    A few years later, burning tires in my old truck that felt fast at the ti with a V8 with an output of 180HP, I couldn't have imagined that today I own a vehicle with a 300HP four-cylinder, and that I would be able to sit and watch as its computer drove me down the highway using a combination o cameras and radar.

    Or the amount of computing power we carry around in our pockets... Or the energy density of modern batteries.

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've seen the way som folks drive, and that might just be for the best :)
    I hope they never make flying cars ubiquitous. The visual pollution would b horrendous, the traffic would blot out the sun.

    Indeed the platform has matured, which does make it more boring. The deskto computer I have is 13 years old, and more than powerful enough for what I ne to do day to day. You couldn't have said that about any 13 year old compute in the 2000's or earlier. There simply is enough CPU power, RAM, resolution data transfer capabilities do what we want computers to do (At least in our limited vision) comfortably.

    I do want some simplicity back though.


    Back in 2000, a 13 year old pc would be 286, maybe an early 386. A Pentium 2 500Mhz machine with 64-128meg of memory blows it away in abilities and
    speed.

    I have a laptop from 2009 that still runs well for surfing, Libre Office, and Skype/ zoom meetings. Installing linux was the best improvement to keep it usable.

    ---
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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Boraxman on Mon May 16 12:33:36 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 09:29 am

    I do want some simplicity back though.

    You will find no arguments from me!

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Sun May 15 14:29:16 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Sun May 15 2022 11:40 am

    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning to move away from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.

    Later versions of Windows don't boot into DOS either. Is there a need to boot directly into DOS these days?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Mon May 16 16:39:00 2022
    All my friends skipped over it, going from 98 to Windows 2000. In fact, that one machine I tried to fix may have been the only one I ever used with Windows
    ME on it. It was a computer I built for a work colleague.

    The only machine I ever saw that had ME on it was one that was bought
    during the time between 98SE and XP/2000. It was a friend's.


    * SLMR 2.1a * It it ain't broke, let me have a shot at it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Mon May 16 16:46:00 2022
    Back in 2000, a 13 year old pc would be 286, maybe an early 386. A Pentium 2 500Mhz machine with 64-128meg of memory blows it away in abilities and speed.

    Or an XT. I have one that was purchased new in late 1987. IIRC, the 286
    was the top of the line at that point, but the 386 may have been on the
    market already. I am trying to remember when it was I started drooling
    over the 386 DX 40's in the computer magazines. It was sometime between
    1987 and 1990. :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * That which does not kill us strengthens us.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Belly on Mon May 16 08:13:00 2022
    Hello Belly!

    ** On Sunday 15.05.22 - 19:22, Belly wrote to Ogg:

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept
    seems to be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be
    fully

    Has there been any recent chatter on that front? A few
    years ago I used to hear about startups with their new
    machines, but not much lately.

    One good report on the matter is a 60 Minutes episode from a
    just a few weeks ago.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/evtol-flying-vehicles-air-taxi-60- minutes-2022-04-17/


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Denn on Tue May 17 07:56:13 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sun May 15 2022 09:25 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu May 12 2022 08:24 am

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated
    reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system,
    dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of,
    so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?

    Yes, but unlike Windows 95 you couldn't just shell into DOS, you could stil use DOS though.

    ... More Oxymoron's: Free Love, Jumbo Shrimp, Freezer Burn.

    I don't think there was any change in how much DOS was accessible between 95 and 98. In both you could boot to DOS, and restart is MS-DOS mode from Windows.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Moondog on Tue May 17 07:58:13 2022
    Re: we still don't have flyin
    By: Moondog to Ogg on Mon May 16 2022 07:37 am

    Re: we still don't have flyin
    By: Ogg to Belly on Sun May 15 2022 12:53 pm

    Hello Belly!

    ** On Sunday 15.05.22 - 09:20, Belly wrote to Boraxman:

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've
    seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for
    the best :)

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully
    automated "taxi" services that you could order to arrive at
    your chosen point of departure and take you straight to where
    you want to go.


    The travel times and distances aren't that great per battery capacity. For safety reasons in densely populated areas, flight patterns and special fligh rules need to be established. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm impressed with the demos I've seen, but we're a ways from a mature technology.


    Flying cars will result in poorer urban design. We'll make suburbs 'flying car' friendly, which will mean we can separate people from services and work even more. "Yeah, we can build in the middle of nowhere, people can fly 30knm to school..."

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Moondog on Tue May 17 08:01:11 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon May 16 2022 07:49 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 09:29 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Boraxman on Sun May 15 2022 09:20 am

    I think the PC platform is mature now, and that's the reason. The technological improvements these days are in so many other areas. When using a 300 baud acoustic-coupled modem, I never dreamed that I would data connection to the entire world that could transfer 2Gbps, nor wou been able to even wrap my head around the concept of a Giga-anything. computer had 16k of RAM and ran at 4MHz then.

    A few years later, burning tires in my old truck that felt fast at the with a V8 with an output of 180HP, I couldn't have imagined that today own a vehicle with a 300HP four-cylinder, and that I would be able to and watch as its computer drove me down the highway using a combinatio cameras and radar.

    Or the amount of computing power we carry around in our pockets... Or energy density of modern batteries.

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've seen the way folks drive, and that might just be for the best :)
    I hope they never make flying cars ubiquitous. The visual pollution woul horrendous, the traffic would blot out the sun.

    Indeed the platform has matured, which does make it more boring. The des computer I have is 13 years old, and more than powerful enough for what I to do day to day. You couldn't have said that about any 13 year old comp in the 2000's or earlier. There simply is enough CPU power, RAM, resolut data transfer capabilities do what we want computers to do (At least in o limited vision) comfortably.

    I do want some simplicity back though.


    Back in 2000, a 13 year old pc would be 286, maybe an early 386. A Pentium 500Mhz machine with 64-128meg of memory blows it away in abilities and speed.

    I have a laptop from 2009 that still runs well for surfing, Libre Office, an Skype/ zoom meetings. Installing linux was the best improvement to keep it usable.


    My Laptop is from 2005! It is slow when web browsing, but apart from that,

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Andre@VERT/RDOMENTR to Dumas Walker on Mon May 16 18:39:42 2022
    I am trying to remember when it was I started drooling
    over the 386 DX 40's in the computer magazines. It was sometime between
    1987 and 1990. :)

    40s I'm not sure. 25s were around for Christmas 1998, so I'm going to put
    33s being common late 1990. That'd put the AMD 40 in 1991.


    - Andre

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 17 20:40:33 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Sun May 15 2022 02:29 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Sun May 15 2022 11:40 am

    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning to m away from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.

    Later versions of Windows don't boot into DOS either. Is there a need to bo directly into DOS these days?

    Nightfox


    Windows 2000 onwards was based on Windows NT. This was new technology, a different kernel. The core OS booted instead of hitching on to DOS.

    They did need to make this change, but the problem for me was they didn't replace DOS with something better. It was GUI only.

    There is rarely a need to boot into DOS. The only times I've had to, is to do a firmware update, but that was a while ago.

    DosBox is good enough now.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Dr. What@VERT/FINALZON to Moondog on Tue May 17 07:51:00 2022
    Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Installing linux was the best improvement to keep it usable.

    That's true for all PCs - not just the old ones.


    ... I think my learning curve has turned into a circle.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net - www.xadara.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Mon May 16 06:32:00 2022
    Belly wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Your old network and mine do have one thing in common, though: Novell.
    Or these days, Micro Focus. NetWare may be gone, but Open Enterprise Server on top of Linux is not. And eDirectory is still more robust and flexible than AD ever was. And ZENworks is the bees knees for desktop management!

    I would love to see that in action. It's nice to know there are
    options out there, but so hard to find examples.

    I was a Novell admin back in the 2.2/3.11/4.1 days and was a fan of
    Novell's directory services when AD started making inroads.



    ... It's cyber hurricane season, and everywhere is Florida
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Mon May 16 06:44:00 2022
    Belly wrote to Boraxman <=-

    A few years later, burning tires in my old truck that felt fast at the time, with a V8 with an output of 180HP, I couldn't have imagined that today I would own a vehicle with a 300HP four-cylinder, and that I
    would be able to sit back and watch as its computer drove me down the highway using a combination of cameras and radar.

    Looking backwards, it's amazing how lethargic US engine tech was back
    in the late 70s and 80s. My 2002 Camry 6 cylinder had more horsepower
    than a 1977 'Vette! And, the rest of the cars - DOT headlights, 85 mph speedometers, and rust!




    ... It is simply a matter of work
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ennev on Tue May 10 13:18:28 2022
    Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Ennev to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 11:36 am

    By 91, every area had more than one local BBS, and 2400 baud modems could be bought for cheap at the Electronics Boutique in the mall. ISP's didn't take over in my area until 96-97. Getting Windows 95 was the main reason many of our customers chose to upgrade. they have been happy with their 386's and 486's with 2400 baud modems, and were forced to move to a Pentium and a 14.4k modem

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.


    you also have to be morbidly obese according to its current advertisements.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Thu May 12 07:13:33 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dr. What on Thu May 12 2022 08:55 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumped ship.


    well windows 95 was the one with serious issues. like you could copy a file over another one with the same filename and it would be zero bytes.

    windows 98 wasnt great but it was good.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu May 12 15:32:15 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu May 12 2022 08:24 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dr. What on Thu May 12 2022 08:55 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?


    i think you could reboot to dos.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sun May 15 17:58:27 2022
    Re: we still don't have flying cars yet
    By: Ogg to Belly on Sun May 15 2022 12:53 pm

    Hello Belly!

    ** On Sunday 15.05.22 - 09:20, Belly wrote to Boraxman:

    Of course, we still don't have flying cars yet, but I've
    seen the way some folks drive, and that might just be for
    the best :)

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully
    automated "taxi" services that you could order to arrive at
    your chosen point of departure and take you straight to where
    you want to go.

    so i can look forward to a car crashing into my roof and killing me when i'm 80 years old or so
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Mon May 16 09:30:50 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sun May 15 2022 09:25 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated
    reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system,
    dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of,
    so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?

    Yes, but unlike Windows 95 you couldn't just shell into DOS, you could still use DOS though.

    when within windows and you are loading the dos prompt or command prompt that's not really 'dos'; that's just an emulator.

    here i am in a win98 vm i just made. i setup the command prompt to boot into dos

    https://i.imgur.com/kYZwZzb.png

    i type exit and it runs windows

    https://i.imgur.com/NdnOhG3.png

    as you can see i have a perfectly working copy of windows 98 now! https://i.imgur.com/ZOBI1IZ.png
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to all on Mon May 16 09:37:15 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: MRO to Denn on Mon May 16 2022 09:30 am


    as you can see i have a perfectly working copy of windows 98 now! https://i.imgur.com/ZOBI1IZ.png


    okay got the internets working.
    i'm suprising to see that the bing search engine works right off the bat. https://i.imgur.com/O9vyLad.png

    using windows update opens the browser and then it goes on some loop

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Mon May 16 22:43:14 2022
    Re: we still don't have flying cars yet
    By: Ogg to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 08:13 am

    Has there been any recent chatter on that front? A few
    years ago I used to hear about startups with their new
    machines, but not much lately.

    One good report on the matter is a 60 Minutes episode from a
    just a few weeks ago.




    seriously they need to develop force field technology first because i don't want a fucking car landing on me when i'm in bed.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 17 17:10:40 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 06:32 am

    I would love to see that in action. It's nice to know there are
    options out there, but so hard to find examples.

    I was a Novell admin back in the 2.2/3.11/4.1 days and was a fan of
    Novell's directory services when AD started making inroads.

    I wouldn't have it any other way! Administration is mostly hands-off, except for a monthly preventative dsrepair on my tree. I have scripted user provisioning for our students, and user accounts sync from eDirectory to our Google domain for our Chromebooks. I run FreeRADIUS to authenticate WiFi users against their eDirectory accounts, and several other services also authenticate against it using LDAP. I have intentions of using Identity Manager to sync our staff Office365 accounts to it also, but that's still on the to-do list.

    ZENworks provides policy/software distribution, remote desktop/chat/file transfer/disk imaging to our Windows workstations, and also manages policies and app distribution for our iPads. And all of this, with the exception of disk imaging, works inside or outside the district firewall.

    We also use the Micro Focus Service Desk for helpdesk/ticketing, and it also integrates with ZENworks for remote control, etc. from its console. And their FILR product extends the LAN file services to provide private DropBox-like functionality across all mobile and desktop platforms, so our staff always have file access at home.

    So... If the kids would just stop breaking devices, it would be a cushy job, because I engineered it to be!

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 17 17:13:13 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Mon May 16 2022 06:44 am

    than a 1977 'Vette! And, the rest of the cars - DOT headlights, 85 mph speedometers, and rust!

    Of course, you can blame the 85 MPH speedometers on Federal regulations during the time :)

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ANDRE on Tue May 17 16:09:00 2022
    40s I'm not sure. 25s were around for Christmas 1998, so I'm going to put
    33s being common late 1990. That'd put the AMD 40 in 1991.

    1991 was about the time I bought one so that sounds right.


    * SLMR 2.1a * !enilgat cinataS !eraweB ­

    ---
    ­ Synchronet ­ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Zero Reader@VERT/ALCO to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 17 21:49:00 2022
    On 16 May 2022, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    Looking backwards, it's amazing how lethargic US engine tech was back
    in the late 70s and 80s. My 2002 Camry 6 cylinder had more horsepower
    than a 1977 'Vette! And, the rest of the cars - DOT headlights, 85 mph speedometers, and rust!

    The 1977 had a 140mph speedometer. If I'm not mistaken, that would be the last year for that body style, as they would go to a fastback style the next year and the dreaded 88mph speedo.

    I always found the posted horsepower numbers a head scratcher. I owned a 77 L-82 and it was a brutally powerful car -- I always felt like the transmission needed a few more gears though.

    -zr

    ... We all live in a yellow subroutine...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / alco.bbs.io / Est. 1995
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Tue May 17 21:44:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Ennev <=-

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.

    you also have to be morbidly obese according to its current advertisements.

    Well you should be good. Aren't you a self-admitted porker?



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andre@VERT/RDOMENTR to Zero Reader on Wed May 18 08:37:05 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Zero Reader to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 17 2022 09:49 pm

    The 1977 had a 140mph speedometer. If I'm not mistaken, that would be the last year for that body style, as they would go to a fastback style the next year and the dreaded 88mph speedo.

    1977 was 160mph. I think the rest of that body style (79-82) had 140mph.


    - Andre

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org
  • From Zero Reader@VERT/ALCO to Andre on Wed May 18 10:32:00 2022
    On 18 May 2022, Andre said the following...

    1977 was 160mph. I think the rest of that body style (79-82) had 140mph.


    Yeah I think you're correct. It's been a while since I've seen one. I just know it went past 80!

    -zr

    ... A penny saved is not very much

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / alco.bbs.io / Est. 1995
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Tue May 17 06:45:00 2022
    Boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-

    DosBox is good enough now.

    Dosbox can boot MS-DOS or any other DOS OS, too - although you lose
    the ability to use a folder on the host drive as a guest c: drive -
    you need to create a disk image to do so.

    I have a MS-DOS 6.22 DOSBOX environment, but DOSBOX by itself does
    well enough - and lets you redirect a comm port to telnet using DOS
    terminal programs, or use packet drivers and DOS internet apps.



    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Tue May 17 06:47:00 2022
    Boraxman wrote to Moondog <=-

    services and work even more. "Yeah, we can build in the middle of nowhere, people can fly 30knm to school..."

    "Why, when I was your age, I had to fly 30km to school -- in a headwind --
    each way!"



    ... Where is the edge?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Andre@VERT/RDOMENTR to Zero Reader on Wed May 18 10:29:21 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Zero Reader to Andre on Wed May 18 2022 10:32 am

    Yeah I think you're correct. It's been a while since I've seen one. I just know it went past 80!

    My family had the two-tone 1978 pace car anniversary edition. Looked so much faster than it was.


    - Andre

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Tue May 17 12:51:35 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Nightfox on Tue May 17 2022 08:40 pm

    Windows 2000 onwards was based on Windows NT. This was new technology, a different kernel. The core OS booted instead of hitching on to DOS.

    Yep, I'm aware of that.

    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning
    to m away from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.

    There is rarely a need to boot into DOS. The only times I've had to, is to do a firmware update, but that was a while ago.

    You had said ME not booting into DOS was a warning to move away from Windows. It sounded like you still wanted to be able to boot into DOS..?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 19 07:51:25 2022
    Re: Re: we still don't have flyin
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Tue May 17 2022 06:47 am

    Boraxman wrote to Moondog <=-

    services and work even more. "Yeah, we can build in the middle of nowhere, people can fly 30knm to school..."

    "Why, when I was your age, I had to fly 30km to school -- in a headwind --
    each way!"



    ... Where is the edge?

    haha!
    "Get with the times dad, everyone uses teleporters now"

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed May 18 12:19:57 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: MRO to Denn on Mon May 16 2022 09:30 am

    when within windows and you are loading the dos prompt or command prompt that's not really 'dos'; that's just an emulator.

    With the command prompt in Windows, there's no emulation going on. The command prompt is a native Windows program, and the only time any sort of emulation would be involved is if you run a 16-bit DOS program, where it would run in the NTVDM.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 18 22:56:32 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 18 2022 12:19 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: MRO to Denn on Mon May 16 2022 09:30 am

    when within windows and you are loading the dos prompt or command prompt that's not really 'dos'; that's just an emulator.

    With the command prompt in Windows, there's no emulation going on. The command prompt is a native Windows program, and the only time any sort of emulation would be involved is if you run a 16-bit DOS program, where it would run in the NTVDM.

    it's emulating the look and feel of MS dos command prompt. but it's not
    a disk operating system.

    that's what i mean by emulator.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Nightfox on Thu May 19 18:56:02 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 17 2022 12:51 pm

    Windows 2000 onwards was based on Windows NT. This was new technology, different kernel. The core OS booted instead of hitching on to DOS.

    Yep, I'm aware of that.

    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning Bo>> to m away from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.

    There is rarely a need to boot into DOS. The only times I've had to, is do a firmware update, but that was a while ago.

    You had said ME not booting into DOS was a warning to move away from Windows It sounded like you still wanted to be able to boot into DOS..?

    Nightfox

    Yes. I still used to play DOS games, and I would program in C using DJGPP and Turbo C, use DOS music players. I kept the habits from my relatively recent DOS 6.22 days. You could run DOS programs in Windows, but it didn't work as well. Being able to avoid having to wait for Windows to start, just to shut it down again was an advantage. Also, I preferred the command line for file management and the like.

    So with Linux, you were still able to choose whether to boot into text mode or a GUI.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Moondog on Thu May 19 22:40:49 2022
    Re: we still don't have flyin
    By: Moondog to Ogg on Mon May 16 2022 07:37 am

    Flying cars HAVE arrived. The human-size drone concept seems to
    be gaining traction. The machines are poised to be fully
    automated "taxi" services that you could order to arrive at
    your chosen point of departure and take you straight to where
    you want to go.

    They fly. You just can't land them anywhwere.

    |07 HusTler


    ... Marriage: the price men pay for sex. Sex: the price women pay for marriag

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Belly on Thu May 19 22:43:14 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Boraxman on Mon May 16 2022 12:33 pm

    I do want some simplicity back though.

    You will find no arguments from me!

    You get bet Simplicity to win on Saturdays PreaknesS AND CASH IN!

    |07 HusTler


    ... What a man needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Thu May 19 07:19:00 2022
    Boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Yes. I still used to play DOS games, and I would program in C using
    DJGPP and Turbo C, use DOS music players. I kept the habits from my relatively recent DOS 6.22 days. You could run DOS programs in
    Windows, but it didn't work as well.

    I did miss the OS/2 subsystem in Windows; Windows 2000 would run OS/2
    console programs. They removed that feature from Windows XP.

    I ran my BBS natively under OS/2 for several years, and have a copy
    of Qedit, one of my favorite editors, for DOS and OS/2. The OS/2
    version ran much more smoothly in a DOS window than the DOS version.

    IBM always said OS/2 was a better DOS than DOS. :)




    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Ennev on Fri May 20 17:59:32 2022
    On 5/10/22 08:36, Ennev wrote:

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known
    that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    I'm sure it will motivate some to switch to Linux.

    It's mostly a simulated device in newer CPUs... but software emulation
    isn't nearly the same. It's also a bridge to preventing entire classes
    of malware in Windows. In the end, it's not like TPM2 is worthless,
    it's just that it shouldn't be a hard requirement at this point.

    Of course, I have it disabled and reverted to Windows 10 in order to
    keep using mostly Linux. Windows is for some work projects where
    absolutely needed at this point.

    Personal and Work laptops are both M1 Macs (air and max respectively).
    Of course early adopter at work for M1 has made building some projects (requiring updates to code, libraries, etc) has be "fun".
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Belly on Fri May 20 18:05:33 2022
    On 5/14/22 08:18, Belly wrote:

    I kind of miss those days. I dealt with all kinds of fun things, like 4Mbps Token Ring LANs with the big square IBM IDC connectors, diskless
    386 workstations that would RPL boot to the NetWare server...

    I have no fondness for Token Ring networking... none.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Boraxman on Fri May 20 18:08:49 2022
    On 5/14/22 18:40, Boraxman wrote:

    Windows ME couldn't boot to DOS, which to me was a big red warning to move away
    from Windows. It in part prompted me to look into Linux.
    I never really ran DOS based windows after Windows 95... I mean I
    dabbled with Win98SE... but in '96 I went to NT 4.0 and then Windows
    2000 (NT5, not ME) and then XP. And even with Windows 95, I ran OS/2 more/longer than I ran Win9x iirc.

    The past decade, I've used Linux more on servers and a few times on Desktop.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Tracker1 on Fri May 20 21:45:09 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Tracker1 to Belly on Fri May 20 2022 06:05 pm

    I have no fondness for Token Ring networking... none.

    My fond memories weren't for Token Ring specifically. LOL

    Although, if I had to choose between Token Ring and Thicknet/10base5, with vampire taps and AUI cables running to the NICs in the machines, I think I'd choose TR, for sure! One of my clients in the 90s was a school that had 10base5. Those taps would always oxidize or loosen over time, and you'd have to repeatedly climb up in the ceiling to wiggle the transceiver. That was a huge pain.

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat May 21 10:42:46 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Thu May 19 2022 07:19 am

    I ran my BBS natively under OS/2 for several years, and have a copy
    of Qedit, one of my favorite editors, for DOS and OS/2. The OS/2
    version ran much more smoothly in a DOS window than the DOS version.

    There's a Windows console version of QEdit too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Sat May 21 17:44:01 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Tracker1 on Fri May 20 2022 09:45 pm

    Although, if I had to choose between Token Ring and Thicknet/10base5, with vampire taps and AUI cables running to the NICs in the machines, I think I'd choose TR, for sure! One of my clients in the 90s was a school that had 10base5. Those taps would always oxidize or loosen over time, and you'd have to repeatedly climb up in the ceiling to wiggle the transceiver. That was a huge pain.

    I never saw thicknet in the wild, but I had a network that was all ARCnet, in a star topology. Throw RG6, RG58, hubs connected to hubs, and it still managed to work. I read stories about people running Arcnet between floors using water pipes!

    Old thinnet ethernet, which worked well when running in the spine of a row of cubes. I took home a bunch of it and used it on my home LANTastic network.

    I ran the old thick token ring cabling, that was a pain in the butt. 16 mbit with token passing was better than 10 mbit with CSMA, but sometimes the better technology ends up failing in the marketplace.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat May 21 21:36:14 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Sat May 21 2022 05:44 pm

    I ran the old thick token ring cabling, that was a pain in the butt. 16 mbit

    Most of the old thick stuff with the huge IDC connectors that I worked with was only 4Mbps... But I still think that it held its own against 10Mbps Ethernet!

    I used to have Thinnet strung all around my bachelor house, for LAN gaming. After I moved, my brother and I buried about 650 feet of RG58 between our houses. It was longer than spec, but it was a super-cheap WAN that worked well for years, and was faster than my Internet access at the time (5 Mbps DSL). The only drawback was induced current during thunderstorms, but I grounded the shield of the coax to a copper pipe (in the basement, as some might be aware) and used an old hub as the endpoint. I had a huge stack of those hubs, and would lose one every six months or so. Fun times.

    Later we replaced that link with some of the famous homemade 2.4GHz
    "coffee can" antennas.

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 22 09:10:00 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Sat May 21 2022 05:44 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Tracker1 on Fri May 20 2022 09:45 pm

    Although, if I had to choose between Token Ring and Thicknet/10base5, wi vampire taps and AUI cables running to the NICs in the machines, I think I'd choose TR, for sure! One of my clients in the 90s was a school that 10base5. Those taps would always oxidize or loosen over time, and you'd have to repeatedly climb up in the ceiling to wiggle the transceiver. Th was a huge pain.

    I never saw thicknet in the wild, but I had a network that was all ARCnet, i

    Old thinnet ethernet, which worked well when running in the spine of a row o

    I ran the old thick token ring cabling, that was a pain in the butt. 16 mbit


    I was a contractor in the late 1990's and early 2000's and many of the sites
    I visited were pulling TR and pulling Cat 6 already. I worked for a company that made continuous air air compressors that had TR in the back of the
    shop, and ethernet via twisted pair up front. It was all terminals on the factory floor going to their AS-400, then any drops for a PC were freshly run Ethernet. That is where I first ran into thicket with their version of a T. All during this time I was dealing with twisted pair ethernet, then came
    across a site where their plant was swapping out coax ethernet for twisted pair, but only the front offices had been done. Occasionally we had to pull
    a drawing out and a fluke meter to figure out where the network went down on the coax side. Some offices were being renovated or items stored up in the mezzanines, and the T on a segment would get bumped or was sesnitve to dust. It was two projects later before I ran into a place that stay on TR until 2001-2002. They relied heavily on these passive TR hubs, and media adapters
    to change over the two pair IBM connectors to RJ-45. When we were moving
    folks to ethernet, we had to use special baluns which had a transformer or something in them so they could be used for ethernet. This worked fine for
    the time between having actual Cat6 pulled.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Sun May 22 07:36:00 2022
    Belly wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Later we replaced that link with some of the famous homemade 2.4GHz "coffee can" antennas.

    Back in the 2000s I signed up for FON.COM, a service where you could
    share your internet bandwidth with them, in return for them charging
    for access to your bandwidth, and you getting free bandwidth from
    others.

    I don't think anyone ever used my bandwidth, but I got a free FON
    router (a WRT54G running their firmware), a tiny little router of their
    own, and a FONtenna, a directional antenna with a good length of
    cable and SMA connector. I'd use that thing to beam wifi to a shack a
    good distance from my router.




    ... Idealism without purpose is the ENEMY of PROGRESS.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Moondog on Sun May 22 12:52:53 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 22 2022 09:10 am

    I was a contractor in the late 1990's and early 2000's and many of the sites I visited were pulling TR and pulling Cat 6 already. I worked for a company that made continuous air air compressors that had TR in the back of the shop, and ethernet via twisted pair up front. It was all terminals on the factory floor going to their AS-400, then any drops for a PC were freshly ru Ethernet. That is where I first ran into thicket with their version of a T. All during this time I was dealing with twisted pair ethernet, then came across a site where their plant was swapping out coax ethernet for twisted pair, but only the front offices had been done. Occasionally we had to pull a drawing out and a fluke meter to figure out where the network went down on the coax side. Some offices were being renovated or items stored up in the mezzanines, and the T on a segment would get bumped or was sesnitve to dust. It was two projects later before I ran into a place that stay on TR until 2001-2002. They relied heavily on these passive TR hubs, and media adapters to change over the two pair IBM connectors to RJ-45. When we were moving folks to ethernet, we had to use special baluns which had a transformer or something in them so they could be used for ethernet. This worked fine for the time between having actual Cat6 pulled.

    Now that sounds like not much fun at all!

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 22 13:02:11 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Belly on Sun May 22 2022 07:36 am

    Back in the 2000s I signed up for FON.COM, a service where you could
    share your internet bandwidth with them, in return for them charging
    for access to your bandwidth, and you getting free bandwidth from
    others.

    That's interesting. I'd never heard of that. Was the cost savings worth the hassle?

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ bbs.brazi.net þ www.brazi.net þ WARNING: May contain nuts
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Belly on Sun May 22 17:28:48 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 22 2022 01:02 pm

    Back in the 2000s I signed up for FON.COM, a service where you could
    share your internet bandwidth with them, in return for them charging
    for access to your bandwidth, and you getting free bandwidth from
    others.

    That's interesting. I'd never heard of that. Was the cost savings worth the hassle?

    No real hassle, it was like Xfinity "borrowing" your bandwidth for their public wi-fi - and I got a couple of free routers and a directional antenna in the process. :)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From the doctor@VERT/QBBS to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Mon May 23 10:22:00 2022

    --- POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote --- Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Belly to Tracker1 on Fri May 20 2022 09:45
    pm


    I never saw thicknet in the wild, but I had a network that was all ARCnet, in a star topology. Throw RG6, RG58, hubs connected to hubs, and it still managed to work. I read stories about people running Arcnet between floors using water pipes!

    We had that stuff at ASU. Gross. They also ran loads of the networking
    over CAT-3 phone lines. Ah, the good old days.

    They had loads of DavidSystems kit. That stuff was indestructable. I
    remember one those concentrators (a great big hub with five cards that
    did 10 connections each) had water flowing though it, for years, so much
    so that it had stalactites hanging down from it.

    I replaced loads of that stuff with 3Com. Within 6 months, I'd replaced
    half of it again as the 3com stuff kept failing.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Tracker1 on Tue May 24 08:01:23 2022
    Of course, I have it disabled and reverted to Windows 10 in order to
    keep using mostly Linux. Windows is for some work projects where
    absolutely needed at this point.

    Yes, windows is hard to avoid, That's why I still have an Intel mac so I can run windows with parallels.

    Personal and Work laptops are both M1 Macs (air and max respectively).
    Of course early adopter at work for M1 has made building some projects (requiring updates to code, libraries, etc) has be "fun".

    Oddly I'm still waiting. I got bit a few times being an early adopter and getting Gen 1 stuff, this time I'll wait to see an eventual M2. I'll see what they'll show at WWDC this June to make up my mind.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Ennev on Fri May 27 09:58:40 2022
    Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Ennev to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 11:36 am

    Look windows now. Windows 11 requires you to have TPM 2.0. It's known that it could also be done software side. But hey! We need to sell new machines.

    Totally. There still isn't a compelling reason to upgrade to Windows 11. It is far less performant than Windows 10 for gaming and even business computing; you won't see massive adoption by "enthusiasts" until a lot of the advanced multimedia libraries, like DirectX, become Windows 11 exclusives.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Kaelon on Fri May 27 13:06:36 2022
    Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Kaelon to Ennev on Fri May 27 2022 09:58 am

    Totally. There still isn't a compelling reason to upgrade to Windows 11. It is far less performant than Windows 10 for gaming and even business computing; you won't see massive adoption by "enthusiasts" until a lot of the advanced multimedia libraries, like DirectX, become Windows 11 exclusives.

    Where do you see that Windows 11 is far less performant than Windows 10? I've upgraded to Windows 11, and I enjoy playing PC games and haven't seen any reduction in performance. One of the games I sometimes play recently is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, and it runs just fine in Windows 11. I haven't seen any reduction in performance with it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andre@VERT/RDOMENTR to Nightfox on Fri May 27 15:46:40 2022
    Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Fri May 27 2022 01:06 pm

    Where do you see that Windows 11 is far less performant than Windows 10? I've upgraded to Windows 11, and I enjoy playing PC games and haven't seen any reduction in performance. One of the games I sometimes play recently is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, and it runs just fine in Windows 11. I haven't seen any reduction in performance with it.


    The UI is a hell of a lot cleaner too. The one thing I've read is that for people that don't use Teams, you can squeeze a little more performance by going to the taskbar settings and shutting off "chat."


    - Andre

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org
  • From Kaelon@VERT to Nightfox on Sat May 28 10:50:01 2022
    Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Fri May 27 2022 01:06 pm

    Where do you see that Windows 11 is far less performant than Windows 10? I've upgraded to Windows 11, and I enjoy playing PC games and haven't seen any reduction in performance. One of the games I sometimes play recently is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, and it runs just fine in Windows 11. I haven't seen any reduction in performance with it.

    This is observed really at the highest-end of gaming, but as I am an enthusiast, I see this all the time. With all of the settings maxed out in Microsoft Flight Simulator, assuming a 12th Generation i9 Intel Chip, a GeForce 3090 GPU, or equivalents in both categories, I measured about an 11-18 fps drop in Windows 11 vs. Windows 10.

    Originally, about a year ago, this was about a 20-30 fps difference, so things are improving, but the libraries and DLLs aren't yet on par for DirectX in both platforms.

    PCGamer has a lot of scholarship on how Windows 11 is generally not yet a safe bet for the highest-end gamers, and those who play competitively in e-Sports. For hobbyists, there shouldn't be much of an issue, but min-maxers, like myself, will notice.
    _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Ennev on Sat Jun 4 12:28:28 2022
    On 5/24/22 5:01 AM, Ennev wrote:
    Of course, I have it disabled and reverted to Windows 10 in order
    to keep using mostly Linux. Windows is for some work projects
    where absolutely needed at this point.

    Yes, windows is hard to avoid, That's why I still have an Intel mac
    so I can run windows with parallels.

    It's not so bad, WSL2 is pretty nice and makes it pretty tolerable.

    Personal and Work laptops are both M1 Macs (air and max
    respectively). Of course early adopter at work for M1 has made
    building some projects (requiring updates to code, libraries,
    etc) has be "fun".

    Oddly I'm still waiting. I got bit a few times being an early
    adopter and getting Gen 1 stuff, this time I'll wait to see an
    eventual M2. I'll see what they'll show at WWDC this June to make
    up my mind.

    I've been surprisingly happy with it so far, once past the build quirks
    on the biggest project/solution. Now it builds in under 6 minutes on
    the M1 Max, my personal desktop took nearly 15 by comparison... probably
    the gen3 nvme making most of the difference.

    There's been a couple niggles, and I wish the x86 acceleration worked
    better with VMs (Docker, etc). And I don't think I'd ever shell out
    what the M1 Max from work cost, that said, for general use, the M1 Air
    has been great. Charged when I left on my trip last Saturday, used a
    couple hours a day since, and still have over 60% battery.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Montoya@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sun Jul 3 19:50:14 2022
    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu May 12 2022 03:32 pm

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Thu May 12 2022 08:24 am

    Re: Re: Forced Upgrade
    By: Boraxman to Dr. What on Thu May 12 2022 08:55 pm

    Windows 98 did it for me. It wasn't that bad, but I hated reinstalling because the OS was broken again.

    Seeing MS remove DOS mode, moving towards a more 'closed' system, dumbed down, I decided it wasn't a future I wanted to be a part of, so I jumped ship.

    Windows 98 still had DOS mode..?


    i think you could reboot to dos.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
    Actually yeah! Last one to ship whas Me, but it was hidden. In 98se you still could press F8 at boot to acces DOS mode and skip autoexec.bat, or you could just "Reboot into DOS". Its boot floppies where also very useful, because it was DOS with CDROM drivers included.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL