• Russia's Endgame

    From Kaelon@VERT to All on Tue Sep 27 05:46:42 2022
    As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what appears to be, inevitable defeat for the Russian forces, there's widespread speculation as to what the Russian Federation's actual endgame can be here. With Ukraine's forces recapturing vast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and all evidence pointing to capitulation in Crimea, Donbas, and other occupied Ukrainian territories, it seems that this war will be resolved within a year.

    What is Russia's possible endgame here?

    Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a candid interview earlier this year when he shared two tidbits that struck me deeply.

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the only state that matters."

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in its view, bring this war to a successful conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and dropped upon Ukrainian cities, would prevent the Ukrainian people from successfully kicking out the Russians.

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to be? _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 08:43:13 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the only state that matters."

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to be?

    I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news here is accurate, Russia has had to start organizing its resources because they're losing this war. I recently heard in the news that Russia has threatened to possibly use nuclear arms. I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this or seeking some kind of recognition or attention, and if this could escalate to a World War 3..

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Tue Sep 27 12:31:42 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 2022 08:43 am

    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the
    only state that matters."

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would
    be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as
    a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to
    be?

    I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news here is accur
    . I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this or seeking

    Nightfox

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    If Putin does not get at leas a symbolic win to offer his allies, they are gonna
    murder him in the ladies restroom. That was well understood from the start so you can
    bet Russia will be as agressive as need be because Putin is aware of the consequences
    of not achieving his goals.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 10:06:00 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

    As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what appears t ast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and al

    What is Russia's possible endgame here?

    Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a cand

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the o

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be ccessful conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and dr

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to b _____
    -=: Kaelon :=-


    Putin is insane. He's sending troops to fight with gear dating back to WWII, some are learning the supply chain is a shambles and are forced to buy their own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks lik e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met with machine gun fire.

    From a logistics point of view, they're cleaning out warehouses of stuff that was meant for major mobilization back in the 60's and 70's. Older tanks and artillery that has been in mothballs or boneyards are being loaded on trains and sent to the front lines. They're even moving SAM coverage from St Petersburg to be used for long range rockets and take back air superiority.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Tue Sep 27 16:02:00 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Sep 27 2022 12:31 pm

    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 2022 08:43 am

    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having.

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia only state that matters."

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensive a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage an

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is go be?

    I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news her . I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this o

    Nightfox

    ---
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    If Putin does not get at leas a symbolic win to offer his allies, they are g murder him in the ladies restroom. That was well understood from the start s bet Russia will be as agressive as need be because Putin is aware of the con of not achieving his goals.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    Sad part is even if Putin is removed from his seat, whoever moves in isn't going to be more friendly to the West, or is going to be cast from the same material as Putin. I can imagine Putin is the type who surrounds himself
    with people he is not afraid of taking his place. Anyone who has that
    ambition is in a lumber camp in Siberia or on the bottom of a cold lake that doesn't give up it's dead.

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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Moondog on Wed Sep 28 11:50:00 2022
    On 28 Sep 2022, Moondog said the following...

    I noticed the Russian people protest the war and mobilization, but do not openly blame Putin's decision making. Part of that may be propaganda, otherwise it is being clever and avoiding being put on a political
    trouble maker list.

    Russian people very specificially support this war. 100%. They want it to happen but they don't want to have to participate.

    Every post, tiktok, whatever out of Russia is specifically worded and it's never to say "get out of Ukraine!" or "peace!". It's "look at these shitty conditions and our limited supplies, why should *I* be here. I'm from the city not a serf. Stupid war. Why won't Ukraine give up/sign agreements/take blame. Our men will kill them and take their wives." etc.

    Regarding propoganda and being clever.. I think they're on the other side of the dip entirely. Something like: not knowing it's propaganda -> knowing it's propaganda, ignoring it as lies -> knowing it's propaganda, actively promoting it, enjoying the lie. I've heard it several times where they'll compare "our vs your propaganda" .. with no stigma on the word propaganda at all.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Wed Sep 28 16:49:00 2022
    own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks lik
    e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met with machine gun fire.

    Russia has done this before, during WWII. Especially early in the war.
    Stalin did not play games, and Putin has said recently that he didn't think Stalin went far enough.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Never repeat codes," said the telegrapher remorselessly.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed Sep 28 22:26:00 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Wed Sep 28 2022 04:49 pm

    own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met wi machine gun fire.

    Russia has done this before, during WWII. Especially early in the war. Stalin did not play games, and Putin has said recently that he didn't think Stalin went far enough.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Never repeat codes," said the telegrapher remorselessly.


    Putin has announced a "no retreat" order. These reserve troops may be pushed into the meat grinder the same way.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Kaelon on Sat Oct 1 10:27:00 2022
    Kaelon wrote to All <=-

    As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what
    appears to be, inevitable defeat for the Russian forces, there's widespread speculation as to what the Russian Federation's actual
    endgame can be here. With Ukraine's forces recapturing vast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and all
    evidence pointing to capitulation in Crimea, Donbas, and other occupied Ukrainian territories, it seems that this war will be resolved within a year.

    What is Russia's possible endgame here?

    Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a candid interview earlier this year when he shared two tidbits that
    struck me deeply.

    1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

    2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is
    the only state that matters."

    It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn
    would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the
    world stage and, in its view, bring this war to a successful
    conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and
    dropped upon Ukrainian cities, would prevent the Ukrainian people from successfully kicking out the Russians.

    What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going
    to be? _____

    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn't happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

    I think people are disregarding the fact that "our" side is also heavily propagandizing its people, so our view would also be highly warped. Given the repeated failure of the West to analyse and solve problems, I'm in general quite doubtful that the situation, as it actually is, is how it is percieved to be. That is to say, Russia could achieve some limited goals, despite what our media are saying.

    I don't entirely disagree with Medvedev's first point either. The USA has become a rather pathological world power. It is interesting to hear Putin mention (again), poisonous Western ideologies which undermine tradition and nations. Having seen the spread of American Ideology into Australia, it is really hard to disagree. Having strong powers which can provide an counter narrative, a push back I think is important.

    The "nukes" is hysteria though. Utter hysteria. I remember reading articles about how when Trump would win the world would collapse and nukes would go off over cities. Quite literally they were saying that. The amount of utter BS our leaders and media give us should make us feel total shame and embarrassment, if we had self-awareness of how we look to others, which we don't.

    So I'm not too concerned. Russia will annex these lands as it did the Crimea, the West will pretend they the world is just *us* and that there really isn't any fundamental change to the world and we'll continue living in our fantasy land.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Sat Oct 1 09:53:00 2022
    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to
    Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
    happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when
    they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

    As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been
    that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news
    earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch
    of money.

    Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are
    not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the
    beginning, but I didn't see any.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Deja Moo: the feeling you have heard this bull before

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Boraxman on Tue Oct 4 14:49:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 03 2022 10:39 pm

    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. Accordi
    to

    Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and w the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to belie this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it
    didn'

    happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory
    when

    they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reali It's really odd.

    As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

    Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the beginning, but I didn't see any.

    Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here a mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

    Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.


    FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone down. The news loves stories about Putin and his crazy antics. My guess is the US press doesn't have the same level of access they do with US military forces. Iknow some reports are intentionally delayed and tactical commentary is discouraged in order to keep the Russians guessing about the Ukraine's next move.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Tue Oct 4 17:28:00 2022
    As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

    Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here are
    mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

    Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

    I will admit they've gotten where they don't say near as much as they used
    to about the conflict, that is for sure. It got pushed out of the top spot
    in the news cycle when the FBI raided Donald Trump. Other things... hurricanes, etc... have managed to, in turn, push that out of the top spot.

    What we were hearing, and what we've been hearing lately, does sound
    realistic. Ukraine has gained some ground but Putin is rounding up the reserves and others with military service and throwing them at the problem, Putin has threatened using nukes, and some in his "circle of advisors" have suggested using low-grade ones.

    One other thing that has been in the news lately, and has been fighting for
    the top spot, is the referrendums that were held in the sections of the
    country that have long been Russian held that resulted in Russia annexing
    them outright.

    I don't think we've really been getting any serious either side "is winning big" stories in a while.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Warning! Incomprehensible action is about to occur.

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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Moondog on Tue Oct 4 21:09:00 2022
    Hello Moondog!

    ** On Tuesday 04.10.22 - 14:49, Moondog wrote to Boraxman:

    FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone
    down. [...]

    There are plenty of headlines posted in the UKRNEWS (Fidonet)
    echo.

    Sources are primarily:

    https://censor.net/en/news/
    https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/
    https://www.kyivpost.com/

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 6 17:24:05 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat Oct 01 2022 09:53 am

    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative.
    According to
    Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
    happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when
    they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

    Same here. The MSM keep telling us how weak and non-threatening Russia is however the reality is the opposite. They had only deployed a small fraction of their serving military into this "special operation" in Ukraine. We are beginning to see a much larger mobilisation now with their recent draft of 300,000 troops. They have also been exhausting their old stock of tanks and weaponary to soften up the Ukrainians with the more advanced stuff becoming known to us soon. I am taking the threat of Russia quite seriously considering the West is financially on the precipice and about to collapse under its own weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thu Oct 6 22:41:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 05:24 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat Oct 01 2022 09:53 am

    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to
    Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard t believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
    happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victo when
    they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

    Same here. The MSM keep telling us how weak and non-threatening Russia is however the reality is the opposite. They had only deployed a small fraction their serving military into this "special operation" in Ukraine. We are beginning to see a much larger mobilisation now with their recent draft of 300,000 troops. They have also been exhausting their old stock of tanks and weaponary to soften up the Ukrainians with the more advanced stuff becoming known to us soon. I am taking the threat of Russia quite seriously consideri the West is financially on the precipice and about to collapse under its own weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.


    During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troops a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two. Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking of Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were never replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
    gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
    r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

    The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off
    several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The
    pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's and 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use
    their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

    If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the new
    AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
    issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops are probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and assign his battle buddy with just a magazine.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 6 22:44:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Oct 06 2022 04:39 pm

    Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his people) once he realized he likely would.


    putin got back the russian spirit. he brought them back from being losers. he'd rather die than lose

    A lot of Russian citizens who post on social media don't seem too happy
    with him. The other day, someone shot and killed one of the conscription officers. Others have been posting videos of the poor living conditions at the conscription dorms.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm a nocturnal model

    Several have been clever by denouncing ther mobilisation and the war, but no s ay it's Putin's fault directly. So what if they are caught by their social media police? The worst that can happen is they get shipped to the Ukraine.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Oct 7 03:21:08 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 05:24 pm

    weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.


    I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Moondog on Fri Oct 7 20:43:00 2022
    Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 03 2022 10:39 pm

    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. Accordi
    to

    Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and w the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to belie this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it
    didn'

    happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory
    when

    they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reali It's really odd.

    As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

    Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the beginning, but I didn't see any.

    Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here a mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

    Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.


    FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone down. The news loves stories about Putin and his crazy antics. My guess is the US
    press doesn't have the same level of access they do with US military forces. Iknow some reports are intentionally delayed and tactical commentary is discouraged in order to keep the Russians guessing about
    the Ukraine's next move.

    From the stories I've seen, Putin is about to die, or has come close to death every week, and that Ukraine has another victory. But the stories lack details, they read more like tabloid celebrity news.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Dumas Walker on Fri Oct 7 20:52:00 2022
    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

    Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here
    are

    mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

    Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

    I will admit they've gotten where they don't say near as much as they
    used to about the conflict, that is for sure. It got pushed out of the top spot in the news cycle when the FBI raided Donald Trump. Other things... hurricanes, etc... have managed to, in turn, push that out of the top spot.

    What we were hearing, and what we've been hearing lately, does sound realistic. Ukraine has gained some ground but Putin is rounding up the reserves and others with military service and throwing them at the problem, Putin has threatened using nukes, and some in his "circle of advisors" have suggested using low-grade ones.

    One other thing that has been in the news lately, and has been fighting for the top spot, is the referrendums that were held in the sections of the country that have long been Russian held that resulted in Russia annexing them outright.

    I don't think we've really been getting any serious either side "is winning big" stories in a while.

    A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

    Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are about Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok. On our ABC new site, its not much better. Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

    So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part that we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Fri Oct 7 17:31:00 2022
    Several have been clever by denouncing ther mobilisation and the war, but no s
    ay it's Putin's fault directly.

    Indeed. I have noticed that also, and I think the US media has also picked
    up on it.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline uncloaking dead ahead Sir...

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Fri Oct 7 17:38:00 2022
    A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

    Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had friends
    over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax
    letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

    Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are abou
    Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok.

    A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before or
    after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah, there is
    a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet"
    rant anywhere in public is also going to get a lot of repeat attention if
    it gets video recorded by anyone with a cell phone.

    On our ABC new site, its not much better.
    Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

    FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked what the major over-the-air network news sites are like in a while.

    So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part tha
    we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

    I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "I sure smell bad after wearing these leathers." * Troi

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Moondog on Sat Oct 8 11:02:04 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

    I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor, and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen

    There is not such a thing as forcing low food prices, and any minister claiming otherwise has not seen European countries in the heyday of regulated food prices.

    Long story short: if Pedro Sánchez sets a max price of one dollar per loaf of bread, but it takes me three dollar to produce it, one of the following is gonna happen:

    * I am not going to sell any bread and I am gonna keep all of my bread for family and friends.

    * I am going to sell my bread in a dark alley for a price that allows me to turn at least some profit.

    What I am not going to do is to sell bread at a loss, specially if the scenario os post apocalyptic and food supply is not granted (see post WWII Germany and post Civil War Spain).

    PS: There is an old saying: When a cuntry is really fucked up, corruption is not a problem, but the solution. Tha rationale is that if the government is so greedy that it allows nothing to be done without paying a tax bribe, or its regulatory demands are so heavy as to be unmeetable by regular people, any public officer willing to facilitate things for a small fee is a benefactor rather than an enemy.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Sat Oct 8 16:46:51 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:41 pm

    During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troops a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two. Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking of Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were never replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
    gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
    r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

    The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's and 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

    If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the new AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
    issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops are probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and assign his battle buddy with just a magazine.

    I am not too interested in instances of incompetency by the Russian government/military or examples of poor logistics and sourcing of equipment becuase I know the UK military, along with a number of European forces, are in a similar state. We, the British, have a load of aircraft carriers with no planes which we like to set sail in the Far East to "intimidate" China to no avail.

    This little border skirmish or proxy war is about much more than Ukraine or Russia winning back its former sattelite states. This is a war about global energy, resources, currency, trade, and it involves bigger players, such as China and the USA.

    I can spot a powder keg when it's about to go off and I can see that there is much more to this than people give it credit.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Sat Oct 8 16:58:59 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:21 am

    I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

    The Pound Sterling dropped to its lowest value in the exchange rate vs the USD at 1.03 per USD. The UK's pensions industry is basically a ponzi scheme using borrowed money as there are no safe investment opportunities that give a good return on investment due to the extremely low interest rates we have had over the last 15 years. Most investment firms have to provide a 6 percent return which is impossible, however the pensions industry have used clients money to borrow far more cash which they have then spent in the UK government bonds market to bring in a more suitable return. The low pound meant that banks and creditors were issuing margin calls which the pension funds could not pay as they were so highly leveraged, and so the whole industry almost came crumbling down along with all private pensions. The Bank of England (BoE) intervened by printing money and purchasing goverment bonds to stabilise the currency once again. As we know, there is only so much money you can print before inflation becomes a huge issue. They are unable to carry out quantitiative tightening now to combat inflation as they have made it monetary policy to carry out quantitative easing. Hyper-inflation will occur as the goverment are completely out of ideas on how to tackle the mess they've found themselves in.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Sat Oct 8 16:37:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Fri Oct 07 2022 05:38 pm

    A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot mor than the 2003 Invasion.

    Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had friends over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

    Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and i not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbis and what some woman said on TicTok.

    A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before or after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah, there is
    a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet" rant anywhere in public is also going to get a lot of repeat attention if
    it gets video recorded by anyone with a cell phone.

    On our ABC new site, its not much better.
    Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

    FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked wh the major over-the-air network news sites are like in a while.

    So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, t report to us actual news.

    I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "I sure smell bad after wearing these leathers." * Troi


    In the early 80's the CNN cable network got it's fame for reporting "news as
    it happens." Unfortunately this reporting being done is all
    hypothesis, conjecture, and poorly researched and possibly false story
    telling.

    During the period of the Beltway Shootings, there were no witnesses or evidenc e left, but they were already rpofiled as white extremists drving around in a work van. It turned out to be a black man and younger black male (step son?) thta fired shots through the keyhole in back of a trunk lid of a car. The Atlanta Olympic Bombing was blamed on the security guard who found the bomb an d hovered over the bomb to protect others from shrapnel. When it became
    known he had been rejected for a police job, they all assumed he cooked up
    the bombing in order to become the hero of the day. look how the news tried
    to destroy Kyle Rittenhouse?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Sat Oct 8 16:45:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:02 am

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

    I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen

    There is not such a thing as forcing low food prices, and any minister claim otherwise has not seen European countries in the heyday of regulated food prices.

    Long story short: if Pedro Sánchez sets a max price of one dollar per loaf o bread, but it takes me three dollar to produce it, one of the following is gonna happen:

    * I am not going to sell any bread and I am gonna keep all of my bread for family and friends.

    * I am going to sell my bread in a dark alley for a price that allows me to turn at least some profit.

    What I am not going to do is to sell bread at a loss, specially if the scena os post apocalyptic and food supply is not granted (see post WWII Germany an post Civil War Spain).

    PS: There is an old saying: When a cuntry is really fucked up, corruption is not a problem, but the solution. Tha rationale is that if the government is greedy that it allows nothing to be done without paying a tax bribe, or its regulatory demands are so heavy as to be unmeetable by regular people, any public officer willing to facilitate things for a small fee is a benefactor rather than an enemy.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    Price fixing is done through subsidies. The government uses tax
    money to pay the suppliers so the end price is much
    less to the end buyer. The goverment pays to shear the sheep out of subsidy money so there's a supply wool available during winter coat season.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Sat Oct 8 23:21:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:46 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:41 pm

    During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troo a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking o Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were nev replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
    gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
    r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

    The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

    If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the ne AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
    issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and ass his battle buddy with just a magazine.

    I am not too interested in instances of incompetency by the Russian government/military or examples of poor logistics and sourcing of equipment becuase I know the UK military, along with a number of European forces, are a similar state. We, the British, have a load of aircraft carriers with no planes which we like to set sail in the Far East to "intimidate" China to no avail.

    This little border skirmish or proxy war is about much more than Ukraine or Russia winning back its former sattelite states. This is a war about global energy, resources, currency, trade, and it involves bigger players, such as China and the USA.

    I can spot a powder keg when it's about to go off and I can see that there i much more to this than people give it credit.


    There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

    The same applies withvehicles sitting in inactive reserve yards. If you had
    a collector's car or race car you store off season, fluids should be checked and batteries checked and engines periodically turned over to avoid plugged fuel filters and radiators when the car is ran hard after taken from storage.
    All countries have schedules to maintain secondary or inactive forces kit,
    and the term "you cannot manage what you cannot measure" applies to what the books say you have versus what is in the back of the warehouse. The
    corruption makes it worse when this care taking is factored in to maintaining the condition of equipment, then the money set aside is spent on personal
    weath or items are sold off on the black market.

    Another popular saying is the gear you assign your troops was intended for fighting the last war, and you go war with what you have, then request what
    you want along the way. After Crimea was annexed by Russia close to 10 years ago, the Ukraine made major upgrades to equipment and finding new ways to
    make older eqwuipment more effective. If you hunt each season, you clean
    oil, then store your equipment for next season. If it sits for several seasons, you have mold, rot and rust to contend with. Anything not properly stored will be easy to find, but take time to remedy.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Dumas Walker on Sun Oct 9 21:46:00 2022
    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

    Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had
    friends over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

    Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are
    abou

    Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok.

    A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before
    or after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah,
    there is a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet" rant anywhere in public is
    also going to get a lot of repeat attention if it gets video recorded
    by anyone with a cell phone.

    On our ABC new site, its not much better.
    Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

    FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are
    opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked what the major over-the-air network news sites are
    like in a while.

    So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part
    tha

    we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

    I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes
    on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.


    I'm shocked, well, I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am, as to how many articles are quite literally just based on a few tweets or a TikTok. news.com.au is bad for this. They will find a TikTok video by a woman (its always a woman, usually white and young), and make a story about it. She might be surprised by something in Australia, or say something controversial like Marmite is better than Vegemite and it gets spun into an entire STORY about how "the internet is divided". The other trick is to say there is a controversy about something, and the controversy consists of 10 tweets. Fake news. Literally fake news.

    The "racist rants" one are again fake news. The thing is, that journalists say they need to gatekeep the news, determine what is actually news and what isn't.
    But if this is what passes as "news", I don't trust their gatekeeping at all.

    There really isn't any news. It's clickbait, and as you said, just opinion pieces. "Articles" which is just some journalists wanting to make a moral point. One major story going round Melbourne, is Andrew Thornton. He was the CEO of a football club, and was basically made to resign after controversy. The story is still going after one week. The controversy? He attended a church 10 years ago, where a pastor today takes a more, biblical, stance on abortion and homosexuality. Thats the story!


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Sun Oct 9 19:46:20 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

    There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

    <SNIP>

    I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

    I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

    The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

    I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 22:16:00 2022
    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

    There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

    <SNIP>

    I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are
    assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

    I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of
    how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

    The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going
    to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll
    in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and
    wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

    I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being
    wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to
    have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

    What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

    We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

    Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Mon Oct 10 18:42:29 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

    What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

    We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

    Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

    I do not think I have met anyone in real life who has taken the threat of Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control of people's minds. Russia and China are not backwater nations, they are superpowers unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, lol.

    We are suffering as it stands with the cost of living crisis in the UK where we are all paying 4x the normal price of energy along with rising food costs of around 15-20% and inflation increasing day by day. I don't know how anyone can fix this. I don't even want to think how bad conditions are going to become if we end up involved in all out war.

    We are just normal people and we want to live our lives, why can't our governments understand that?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 11:54:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 07:46 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

    There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assumi their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expi otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of th pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

    <SNIP>

    I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming th Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlet

    I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

    The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompeten and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our super soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

    I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong abo there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, an the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.


    When the Russians first rolled into Kiev earlier this year, their convoy had several vehicles showing dry rotted tires. The side walls were separating between the rim and tread. If there werer regular inspections, those tires were unsafe for driving around a test track let alone atke a road trip to invade another nation. A specially trained armored crew becomes infantryment when their radiators are full of corroded scale and their water pumps sieze
    up. There is a saying, "for the want of a nail, a horse shoe is lost." To make it short, this loss of a shoe takes a rider from the fight. That rider was essential to winning the battle, and eventually a war. One missing nail seems isignificant, but what does that say about several horse improperly shoed?

    Incompetent might be the wrong word to use. Due to their mandatory service
    of 2(?) years, most troops do not become career troops. Troops spend their summers putting out forest fires, otherwise they beg for money during their break time. In the Western Services, the logistics guys and administrative people are non-commissioned officers. Specialists, corporals, and sergeants. The Russian army leads from the top and has colonels managing things we can do e
    easily with lower ranked troops. That is why there were so many confirmed command officers (colonels, generals) being killed or captured early on. Imagine this was WWII, and Patton or Montgomery were caught leaving the French b
    order dressed in German enlisted infantry uniforms? In peacetime those lead officers are in a position of trust, but aren't checked on a regular basis regarding the warehouses of hardware they could've told a sergeant to do if they were in a western army. Where did 15 million new uniforms intended for these reserve troops disappear to? How about all those tanks missing
    reactive anti-armor plates? The Ukrainians pulled off the armor in terms of using it themselves, then found it was probably gone before it left the warehouse. Corruption at it's worst.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Boraxman on Mon Oct 10 12:17:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

    Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

    There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assumi their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expi otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of th pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

    <SNIP>

    I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

    I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

    The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

    I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

    What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we app to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are th world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

    We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Wester Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

    Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    It's unforunate that when the US had tried to stay out of the fight in the first half of the 20th century, the US would get pulled in. During the Cold War it wass soviet expansion into Eastern and posible Western Europe, aand
    the domino principle in southeast Asia. Now that Russia has not been proving to be a good ally, we're now seeing destabilization btween Azerbijan and Armenia, and Dagistan and whoever their neighbor is. These countries are technically allies, but without Russia's might to play the bully, theythey
    are no longer trusting their neighbors on their borders.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Mon Oct 10 17:48:00 2022
    You're correct on the shooting holes. I'm working off memory. White supremist is not correct either. Skecthy looking white folk in camoflage
    was how they were profiled.

    "Sketchy looking white folks" c2001 would be described as "white
    supremacists" by today's media so you were not too far off.


    * SLMR 2.1a * HaHaHa! Yuk, Yuk. Snort. Harumph.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 21:44:00 2022
    Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

    What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

    We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

    Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

    I do not think I have met anyone in real life who has taken the threat
    of Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control of people's minds. Russia and China are not backwater nations, they are superpowers unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, lol.

    We are suffering as it stands with the cost of living crisis in the UK where we are all paying 4x the normal price of energy along with rising food costs of around 15-20% and inflation increasing day by day. I
    don't know how anyone can fix this. I don't even want to think how bad conditions are going to become if we end up involved in all out war.

    We are just normal people and we want to live our lives, why can't our governments understand that?

    I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 16:38:02 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:58 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:21 am

    I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

    The Pound Sterling dropped to its lowest value in the exchange rate vs the USD
    at 1.03 per USD. The UK's pensions industry is basically a ponzi scheme using
    borrowed money as there are no safe investment opportunities that give a good
    return on investment due to the extremely low interest rates we have had over
    the last 15 years. Most investment firms have to provide a 6 percent return which is impossible, however the pensions industry have used clients money to
    borrow far more cash which they have then spent in the UK government bonds market to bring in a more suitable return. The low pound meant that banks and
    creditors were issuing margin calls which the pension funds could not pay as they were so highly leveraged, and so the whole industry almost came crumbling
    down along with all private pensions. The Bank of England (BoE) intervened by
    printing money and purchasing goverment bonds to stabilise the currency once again. As we know, there is only so much money you can print before inflation
    becomes a huge issue. They are unable to carry out quantitiative tightening now
    to combat inflation as they have made it monetary policy to carry out quantitative easing. Hyper-inflation will occur as the goverment are completely
    out of ideas on how to tackle the mess they've found themselves in.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

    Thanks for the information. It sounds sooooo Spanish to me it is frightening. At least
    we have the EUR to lay on, which has a lot of inertia, but since the EUR has been
    print to oblivion itself I don't expect anythinything good from it.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 16:53:47 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to Arelor on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:45 pm

    Price fixing is done through subsidies. The government uses tax
    money to pay the suppliers so the end price is much
    less to the end buyer. The goverment pays to shear the sheep out of subsidy money so there's a supply wool available during winter coat season.


    I am familiar. It still cascades into oblivion.

    If I pay you so you can afford to purchase a tractor in order to make you capable of
    producing cheaper corn, then tractor manufacturers will adjust prices. Soon, tractors
    will be the expensive thing. Then you pay tractor manufacturers, so they can produce
    tractors for cheap, and then it is the providers of the components used for building
    tractoors who adjust prices and go expensive.

    Eventually you hit a part of the supply chain you cannot control and the bubble collapses. See photovoltaics in Spain. Once subsidies were cut because there was no
    way to sustain them, purchases of solar generators fell by 80% within the same month
    and owners of factories started selling the manufacturing equipment to scrap yards and
    getting paid by weight.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 17:05:04 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:40 am

    youtubers. The Russian youtubers do videos on going to the mall or large grocery stores and show how trade sanctions are hurting their economy. Several of thir more popular food staples, such as potatoes, h ave raised in price, but have lowered in quality. Smaller type potatos souced from farms that a putting in lower bids and cutting corners such as not washing or spraying off the mud on potatoes. The prices are decided on the most basic staples, but premium or luxxury meats and vegetables can charge more for their product. I can imagine potatoes, rice, and beans being cheap. Eggs and milk have tighter margins. Discount meats would be pork shoulders and other areas smaller chunks of meatr remain after processing.


    Russians are in it for an ugly ride because they are at war. So do we, even if it is
    an indirect war.

    I don't expect most people to be able to afford energy next year in Spain. I have been
    talking to people who do industrial contracts and it is getting nuts. It has reached a
    point in which you may want to open a carrot processing plant and the power company
    denies you a power contract because they don't have electric power to sell to you.

    Read again. It is not that there is power which is getting expensive. It is that the
    electric power company no longer has the capabilities to sign a contract with you and
    guarantee a supply for you.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thu Oct 13 09:03:20 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 09:08 am

    Dont' forget about MS's bastardization of Sun Java o make it "run better" in Windows by forcing the developers to choose Windows or Apple compatibilty.

    That was Microsoft's philosophy of "embrace, extend, extinguish". Their Java and IE were a couple of examples.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 18:40:51 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

    I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

    No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what I can see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everything appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is paying 4x more for their energy bills and the banks are about to collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon a lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life goes down the shitter.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 18:51:39 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 2022 05:05 pm

    Russians are in it for an ugly ride because they are at war. So do we, even if it is
    an indirect war.

    I don't expect most people to be able to afford energy next year in Spain. I have been
    talking to people who do industrial contracts and it is getting nuts. It has reached a
    point in which you may want to open a carrot processing plant and the power company
    denies you a power contract because they don't have electric power to sell to you.

    The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse in the very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdown now as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to pivor to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has already pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with European central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of economic collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Fri Oct 14 13:17:55 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:51 pm

    The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse in t very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdown as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to pivo to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has already pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with Europ central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of econo collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.


    I actually suspect the plan of the Eastern powers is to let our economies collapse under their own weight. We don't need outside powers to destroy us. We are very good at it without any help.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Fri Oct 14 19:21:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 14 2022 01:17 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:51 pm

    The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse i very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdo as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to p to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has alre pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with Eu central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of ec collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.


    I actually suspect the plan of the Eastern powers is to let our economies collapse under their own weight. We don't need outside powers to destroy us. are very good at it without any help.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken


    Zelinsky said the other day that Putin will probably more games regarding the pipeline. Putin will be turning it on and off like a little child blaming
    his brother for playing with the hose.


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Oct 14 20:03:08 2022
    On 10/12/22 21:57, Nightfox wrote:

    I remember a version of Netscape you could pay for. But I also
    remember Netscape being freely available for download on their
    web site. That's what I used.. I didn't use Mosaic.

    IIRC, it was free for personal download/use but distribution (ISP)
    required licensing as did business use... they also relied heavily on
    their server software. MS including both really cut into their business
    on both ends. Windows non-server versions limited to 10 connections
    with IIS included in Server versions kind of sealed the deal.

    Classic ASP being slightly better in a lot of ways didn't help... though
    the fact that most extensions (ASP COM Components) in the space being commercial (and costly) also pushed a lot of PHP adoption at the same time.

    I'm frankly surprised that the stupid security mistakes from MS, such as outlook and outlook express rendering emails in unrestricted/local mode, didn't crush MS in litigation in the early 2000's from all the virus
    payloads.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Oct 14 20:08:07 2022
    On 10/13/22 09:03, Nightfox wrote:

    That was Microsoft's philosophy of "embrace, extend, extinguish".
    Their Java and IE were a couple of examples.

    Their Java issue was mostly around adding in the box COM support, they
    could have done the same via JNI, but it would not have worked as well.

    IE was just a different tact than NN, but just as valid. Adding COM
    into the browser lead to many other issues, especially around email
    rendering. Of course browser plugins were a problem all the way around.
    Flash was particularly bad.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MINDS3 to Andeddu on Sat Oct 15 22:15:00 2022
    Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

    I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

    No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what
    I can see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everything appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged
    ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is
    paying 4x more for their energy bills and the banks are about to
    collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon a lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life
    goes down the shitter.

    It's quite surreal isn't it? There is serious talk of a possibility of this escalating to a point where nuclear weapons could be used, the possibility of a nuclear exchange, and crickets... Biden mentions it as if it is just a passing fact, that someone else will deal with.

    China makes noises against Australia, threatens us, and we don't act at all. Just keep hitching ourselves to their wagon, not doing anything about Chinese subversion in Australia, spying and control.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Sun Oct 23 16:41:34 2022
    Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Oct 23 2022 09:21 am

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 05:40, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

    Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
    would be a lumbering process.


    i'm sure there's something like fark but for regular news.
    or you can use .rss to generate a list.

    Never heard of fark. Tried fark.com. Don't like it. Full of
    ads, and a bit unresponsive as it gets busy serving ads and
    that wastes mobile data.

    Yes.. /rss or /feed/rss seems to work with the news sites (like
    the main https://www.kyivpost.com/feed and https://censor.net/
    en/feed) that UKRNEWS uses most of the time. But visiting each
    one separately takes time, and each display wastes screen
    space. An rss feed in the browser only shows my 5 headlines at
    a time. Whereas UKRNEWS show me over 20. PLUS.. after I pull in
    UKRNEWS there is also the advantage of having those headlines +
    the excerpt stored locally so that I search for particular key
    words like "baltic" and just get THOSE headlines.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

    I personally prefer to use a dedicated RSS program instead of relying on a web browser
    RS system. Just an idea for consideration.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Andeddu on Thu Oct 27 22:47:53 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

    I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land
    and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is
    geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on
    our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict
    than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a
    minority for now.

    The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

    |07 HusTler

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Fri Oct 28 13:35:00 2022
    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: HusTler to Andeddu on Thu Oct 27 2022 10:47 pm

    Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
    By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

    I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

    The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

    |07 HusTler


    China may be considering taking back land they lost to Russia in the 1860's

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Sat Oct 29 10:25:00 2022
    China may be considering taking back land they lost to Russia in the 1860's

    That could be interesting.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Lawyers or Toxic Waste Dumps...hmmm, tough choice

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