Hi folks.

I am reaching a point where I think I'm a data hoarder. I tried to avoid this as, from a psychological perspective, I tend to have a poor memory of anything I don't use frequently. Most of the coding I do, I have to keep a text file/cheat sheet of common methods to do things like open files, because months
will pass between projects and I just forget everything. It has always been like this.

I have attempted to apply this to my data collection: what are the chances I will watch any of the horrible low budget movies I have collected more than once? Yet, pathologically, neutorically, I cannot bring myself to delete files
the same way my brain has garbage collection.

Growing a bit too big for the midtower Debian box I use as my file server I started looking into options. Synology NASes are often recommended but I am wondering, for the money, what they buy me that a PC in a full tower case and appropriate motherboardboard wouldn't. I have no need for whatever OS runs on those NASes; I can set things up with Debian again. I guess my larger question
is, does a NAS give you features that a well-built PC doesn't?

One of the things that is also becoming clear is the issue of redundancy and the cost thereof -- meaning, the more drives you have, the more space you need for backups. I am always torn between whether I should set up RAID or whether it makes more sense to have a bunch of external drives, or, as is currently the
case, a second old PC with a bunch of drives I just rsync everything to.

Recommendations would be appreciated.


cb>> caWeishaupt

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Weishaupt wrote:

Hi folks.
One of the things that is also becoming clear is the issue of redundancy and the cost thereof -- meaning, the more drives you have, the more space you need
for backups. I am always torn between whether I should set up RAID or whether
it makes more sense to have a bunch of external drives, or, as is currently the
case, a second old PC with a bunch of drives I just rsync everything to.

I considered a NAS. The reasons for getting one would be ease of use when swapping out disks. It should have firmware/software that'll make it easy for you. If you use a Linux server then you'll have to be come familiar with
mdadm.

That said, you'll get more bang for your buck. If you get a x?70 motherboard, like a X570 then it supports upto 8 SATA devices natively, and you can always add more via a PCI-E card.

I have a mirrored pair of 250gb SSD drives for my boot/root/home drive and 4 x 4GB hard drives in a RAID 10 (mirrored and striped) for my database, files and other data that is somewhat critical. I keep my documents and photos on there. A PCI-E card then lets me add a blu-ray and a DVD drive.

I use minidlna to provide DLNA services for my mp3 and video files, and
Ampache for serviing up songs locally or via a web interface.

Plus, with a Linux box, you can do anything else you want that Linux allows, where as NAS is somewhat limited.

mdadm isn't something I use much, but I have a small cheat sheet on what to when a drive is bad (remove it from the raid array, add a new disk and check the mirror status).

I've been using Linux since 1995 or there abouts, so I'm used to it. You could still use Windows to do similar if you're a pointy/clicky type person.

Re: NAS vs. BIG OL PC TOWER
By: Weishaupt to All on Sat Jan 09 2021 06:27 pm

One of the things that is also becoming clear is the issue of redundancy

and

the cost thereof -- meaning, the more drives you have, the more space you

need

for backups. I am always torn between whether I should set up RAID or

whether

it makes more sense to have a bunch of external drives, or, as is

currently the

case, a second old PC with a bunch of drives I just rsync everything to.

This is just my opinion so take it as you will. Since you are basically storing data as a hobby, and not for a business purpose, why worry about backups? Maybe a small backup arrangement for the truly important documents, photos, etc. (For docs and photos some great cloud options exist that don't require you to spin drives all day.) But for your cache of old movies, music and whatever -- if a drive goes tits up... who really cares? You can either download it again, or let it go.

Bob Roberts
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Halls of Valhalla -:- hovalbbs.com:2333 (80:505/15)

Twas Saturday, January 9th when Weishaupt said...

I guess my larger question is, does a NAS give you features that a well-built PC doesn't?

A modern NAS is going to give you a few things. At a basic level with a standard setup (FreeNAS etc.) you're going to have RAIDed data. This is great if you're *reading* the data a lot and especially if it's not just you (multi-user).

Another thing a modern NAS generally comes with is user access/rights, sharing via multiple protocols, video streaming, so on.


On Saturday, January 9th Weishaupt muttered...

One of the things that is also becoming clear is the issue of redundancy and the cost thereof -- meaning, the more drives you have, the more space you need for backups.

I've been running unRAID for many years and HIGHLY recommend it. I use it for backup and video streaming (2-3 users at the very most generally). unRAID lets you just "any old disks" which is great for me: I throw in old drives from other machines/etc. Also, the way unRAID works with parity means I only need a single parity only drive, and the rest are data. If one of the drives dies I don't lose data. If the partiy AND one of the other data drives dies at the *same time* the most I would lose is the data on the particular drive; I can also set policies to say where the data lands if I'm really worried about a paritculer set of data (via share).

I've had drives die more than once from just being plain old -- and have never lost data. Just plop in a replacement and rebuild from parity.





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--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (80:774/20)

For the past 17 years, I have used either a Home Server or now a NAS, I
started out in 2003 with Windows Home Server, storing my movies and music (currently 3 TB of both) in addition to it performing backups of all of my computers in the house nightly. In 2015 I moved up to Server 2012 then 2016, this was all done with a old tower which had 6 SATA ports with 4 2TB HD's and
a 500Gig SSD. Back in August I moved to a setup called Xpenology which is basically Synology OS on a regular PC. It worked great! Recently I upgraded
to a real Synology NAS, it now runs my website, some of my VM's, it runs a
VPN to get into my home network from work. It runs my Plex Server in addition to my ITunes Server, plus it also does backups of all my computers Linux and Windows machines. Was it worth it? Yup, to me backups are important, if I
were to lose even 1 video of my kids birthdays from years ago, I would be beside myself. There is no backup for video tapes that go bad, nor is there backup of videos that aren't backed up to a seperate storage. My PC's (Currently 6 plus 2 of my sons PC's that are remote) backup every night to
the NAS, my NAS backs up every other day to external HD's which I swap out night of backup. Why? Again priceless videos, plus 3+TB of music and other videos are really hard to replace. Welp that's my spiel..

Al

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (80:774/70)

Bob wrote:

Re: NAS vs. BIG OL PC TOWER
By: Weishaupt to All on Sat Jan 09 2021 06:27 pm

One of the things that is also becoming clear is the issue of redundancy

and

the cost thereof -- meaning, the more drives you have, the more space you

need

for backups. I am always torn between whether I should set up RAID or

whether

it makes more sense to have a bunch of external drives, or, as is

currently the

case, a second old PC with a bunch of drives I just rsync everything to.

This is just my opinion so take it as you will. Since you are basically storing data as a hobby, and not for a business purpose, why worry about backups? Maybe a small backup arrangement for the truly important documents, photos, etc. (For docs and photos some great cloud options exist that don't require you to spin drives all day.) But for your cache of old movies, music and whatever -- if a drive goes tits up... who really cares? You can either download it again, or let it go.

I got a 6gb external drive for local backups. You can get one for $125 or for $139 you can get an 8TB drive.

On 10 Jan 2021, Nelgin said the following...

I got a 6gb external drive for local backups. You can get one for $125
or for $139 you can get an 8TB drive.

I buy the WD 8TB externals and shuck them for my NAS.. Best investment I have made..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
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Bucko wrote:

On 10 Jan 2021, Nelgin said the following...

I got a 6gb external drive for local backups. You can get one for $125 or for $139 you can get an 8TB drive.

I buy the WD 8TB externals and shuck them for my NAS.. Best investment I have made..

Yeah, I used to do that when 1TB drives came out. Sometimes they were cheaper than the bare internals. Could always sell the enclosure for $10 to make a bit back :)

Re: Re: NAS vs. BIG OL PC TOWER
By: Bucko to All on Sun Jan 10 2021 06:59 pm

For the past 17 years, I have used either a Home Server or now a NAS, I started out in 2003 with Windows Home Server, storing my movies and music (currently 3 TB of both) in addition to it performing backups of all of my computers in the house nightly. In 2015 I moved up to Server 2012 then

2016,

this was all done with a old tower which had 6 SATA ports with 4 2TB HD's

and
<snip>

Where do you all keep these drive arrays? Are they not loud and annoying? Are
you running a home lab? Rack in the basement or closet?

I banished spinning disks from my home office a few years ago. It's wonderful,
the sound of silence.
But I've toyed with the idea of getting a Synology as a small media server. I just don't want the damn noise.

Bob Roberts
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Halls of Valhalla -:- hovalbbs.com:2333 (80:505/15)

On Tuesday, January 12th Nelgin muttered...

Yeah, I used to do that when 1TB drives came out. Sometimes they were cheaper than the bare internals. Could always sell the enclosure for $10

Some companies such as WD have been packaging up enterprise drives in the external enclosures. This means you can buy a much better drive (esp for a NAS)
for much cheaper than normal. ...but they've caught on to people doing this, so started modding the drives to have a quirky connection. ...but people have worked around this as well.

/r/datahorder on Reddit is a great resource for this stuff BTW. Also unRAID and
FreeNAS forums.


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (80:774/20)

On 12 Jan 2021, Bob Roberts said the following...

wonderful, the sound of silence.
But I've toyed with the idea of getting a Synology as a small media server. I just don't want the damn noise.

I have a Synology DS920+ It's small and very quiet. I don't even hear the drives spinning. I won't lie I am in the basement with 7 computers and 2 NAS units, but it is still quiet down here..

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On 12 Jan 2021, NuSkooler said the following...

Some companies such as WD have been packaging up enterprise drives in the external enclosures. This means you can buy a much better drive (esp for
a NAS) for much cheaper than normal. ...but they've caught on to people doing this, so started modding the drives to have a quirky connection. ...but people have worked around this as well.

Exactly why I have been lucky so far, the changes made if the drive is
modified is just put a piece of tape over 2 of the "pins" on the connector. Works like a charm or so I am told. So far I have pulled 2 8TB drives and my Son has pulled 4 12TB drives and luckily we haven't had to do the mod yet..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
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